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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    And I still have yet a person to tell me what Barack Obama has done to show that he can be a good president.
    What has McCain done?

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    What has McCain done?
    Can you answer my question first?

    If not, just say you can't and i'll go to the McCain accomplishments.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Can you answer my question first?

    If not, just say you can't and i'll go to the McCain accomplishments.


    As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.<61>

    Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories.

    He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.

    Obama worked with Russ Feingold (D–WI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act", which was signed into law in September 2007.

    He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.

    Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act", a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.<68>

    Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.

    joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.

    Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans."
    THESE ARE BARACK'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE U.S. SENATE TO DATE:


    ** First legislation, the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100, and later joined Senator Kennedy on the Higher Education legislation that passed July 20, by a vote of 78-18. That legislation also included funding for Predominantly Black Colleges to assist with counseling, tutoring and other needs of low income students. It also creates the Teaching Residency Act which will create a school-based teacher preparation program in high needs schools to provide each teacher with a mentor, content instruction, classroom management skills, a master’s degree and state certification, and a 2 year follow-up program.


    **The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
    is an act that requires the full disclosure of all entities or organizations receiving federal funds beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2007 on a website maintained by the Office of Management and Budget.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
    Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.
    Signed into Law on January 11, 2007.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    ** The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    ** S116 - Summer Learning demonstration project to provide summer learning grants and encourage new teaching methods.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    and this one, moved out of committee just a few days ago:
    Obama's Global Poverty Act of 2007, passed out of committee just a few days ago
    WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Congressman Adam Smith (D-WA) today hailed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's passage of the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. This legislation was introduced in December. Smith and Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House last September.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] /



    Amendments, that have all passed:

    S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.

    S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.

    S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

    S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.

    S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.

    S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.

    S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.

    S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.

    S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.

    S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
    S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans

    S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.


    Oh, and these aren't counting his work in the Illinois State Senate either.....

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    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.<61>

    Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories.

    He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.

    Obama worked with Russ Feingold (D–WI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act", which was signed into law in September 2007.

    He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.

    Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act", a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.<68>

    Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.

    joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.

    Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans."
    THESE ARE BARACK'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE U.S. SENATE TO DATE:


    ** First legislation, the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100, and later joined Senator Kennedy on the Higher Education legislation that passed July 20, by a vote of 78-18. That legislation also included funding for Predominantly Black Colleges to assist with counseling, tutoring and other needs of low income students. It also creates the Teaching Residency Act which will create a school-based teacher preparation program in high needs schools to provide each teacher with a mentor, content instruction, classroom management skills, a master’s degree and state certification, and a 2 year follow-up program.


    **The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
    is an act that requires the full disclosure of all entities or organizations receiving federal funds beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2007 on a website maintained by the Office of Management and Budget.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
    Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.
    Signed into Law on January 11, 2007.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    ** The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    ** S116 - Summer Learning demonstration project to provide summer learning grants and encourage new teaching methods.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    and this one, moved out of committee just a few days ago:
    Obama's Global Poverty Act of 2007, passed out of committee just a few days ago
    WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Congressman Adam Smith (D-WA) today hailed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's passage of the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. This legislation was introduced in December. Smith and Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House last September.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] /



    Amendments, that have all passed:

    S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.

    S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.

    S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

    S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.

    S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.

    S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.

    S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.

    S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.

    S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.

    S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
    S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans

    S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.


    Oh, and these aren't counting his work in the Illinois State Senate either.....

    winner by knock out!

    Paul, how long does it take you to draft McCain's list. I can't imagine it will take that long. As Tuner's post shows, youth does not mean inexperience. Since you believe that Palin is more experienced than Obama I would like to see a list of her accomplishments as well. Did she set up a bear-patrol in Alaska?


  5. #20
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    As a member of the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Obama made official trips to Eastern Europe, the Middle East, and Africa. In August 2005, he traveled to Russia, Ukraine, and Azerbaijan. The trip focused on strategies to control the world's supply of conventional weapons, biological weapons, and weapons of mass destruction as a first defense against potential terrorist attacks.<61>

    Following meetings with U.S. military in Kuwait and Iraq in January 2006, Obama visited Jordan, Israel, and the Palestinian territories.

    He left for his third official trip in August 2006, traveling to South Africa, Kenya, Djibouti, Ethiopia and Chad. In a nationally televised speech at the University of Nairobi, he spoke forcefully on the influence of ethnic rivalries and corruption in Kenya.

    Obama worked with Russ Feingold (D–WI) to eliminate gifts of travel on corporate jets by lobbyists to members of Congress and require disclosure of bundled campaign contributions under the "Honest Leadership and Open Government Act", which was signed into law in September 2007.

    He joined Chuck Schumer (D-NY) in sponsoring S. 453, a bill to criminalize deceptive practices in federal elections, including fraudulent flyers and automated phone calls, as witnessed in the 2006 midterm elections.

    Obama also introduced the "Iraq War De-Escalation Act", a bill to cap troop levels in Iraq, begin phased redeployment, and remove all combat brigades from Iraq before April 2008.<68>

    Later in 2007, Obama sponsored with Kit Bond (R-MO) an amendment to the 2008 Defense Authorization Act adding safeguards for personality disorder military discharges, and calling for a review by the Government Accountability Office following reports that the procedure had been used inappropriately to reduce government costs.

    joined Chuck Hagel (R-NE) in introducing legislation to reduce risks of nuclear terrorism.A provision from the Obama-Hagel bill was passed by Congress in December 2007 as an amendment to the State-Foreign Operations appropriations bill.

    Obama also sponsored a Senate amendment to the State Children's Health Insurance Program (SCHIP) to provide one year of job protection for family members caring for soldiers with combat-related injuries. After passing both houses of Congress with bipartisan majorities, SCHIP was vetoed by President Bush in early October 2007, a move Obama said "shows a callousness of priorities that is offensive to the ideals we hold as Americans."
    THESE ARE BARACK'S ACCOMPLISHMENTS IN THE U.S. SENATE TO DATE:


    ** First legislation, the HOPE Act, which increased Pell Grants to $5100, and later joined Senator Kennedy on the Higher Education legislation that passed July 20, by a vote of 78-18. That legislation also included funding for Predominantly Black Colleges to assist with counseling, tutoring and other needs of low income students. It also creates the Teaching Residency Act which will create a school-based teacher preparation program in high needs schools to provide each teacher with a mentor, content instruction, classroom management skills, a master’s degree and state certification, and a 2 year follow-up program.


    **The Coburn-Obama Government Transparency Act of 2006
    is an act that requires the full disclosure of all entities or organizations receiving federal funds beginning in fiscal year (FY) 2007 on a website maintained by the Office of Management and Budget.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    **The Lugar-Obama Nuclear Non-proliferation and Conventional Weapons Threat Reduction Act
    Authored by U.S. Sens. Dick Lugar (R-IN) and Barack Obama (D-IL), the Lugar-Obama initiative expands U.S. cooperation to destroy conventional weapons. It also expands the State Department's ability to detect and interdict weapons and materials of mass destruction.
    Signed into Law on January 11, 2007.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    **The 2007 Government Ethics Bill
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    ** The “Democratic Republic of the Congo Relief, Security, and Democracy Promotion Act.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    ** S116 - Summer Learning demonstration project to provide summer learning grants and encourage new teaching methods.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    and this one, moved out of committee just a few days ago:
    Obama's Global Poverty Act of 2007, passed out of committee just a few days ago
    WASHINGTON, D.C. - U.S. Senators Barack Obama (D-IL), Chuck Hagel (R-NE), and Maria Cantwell (D-WA) and Congressman Adam Smith (D-WA) today hailed the Senate Foreign Relations Committee's passage of the Global Poverty Act (S.2433), which requires the President to develop and implement a comprehensive policy to cut extreme global poverty in half by 2015 through aid, trade, debt relief, and coordination with the international community, businesses and NGOs. This legislation was introduced in December. Smith and Congressman Spencer Bachus (R-AL) sponsored the House version of the bill (H.R. 1302), which passed the House last September.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] /



    Amendments, that have all passed:

    S.Amdt.159 to S.Con.Res.18 - To prevent and, if necessary, respond to an international outbreak of the avian flu.

    S.Amdt.390 to H.R.1268 - To provide meal and telephone benefits for members of the Armed Forces who are recuperating from injuries incurred on active duty in Operation Iraqi Freedom or Operation Enduring Freedom.

    S.Amdt.670 to H.R.3 - To provide for Flexible Fuel Vehicle (FFV) refueling capability at new and existing refueling station facilities to promote energy security and reduction of greenhouse gas emissions.

    S.Amdt.808 to H.R.6 - To establish a program to develop Fischer-Tropsch transportation fuels from Illinois basin coal.

    S.Amdt.851 to H.R.6 - To require the Secretary to establish a Joint Flexible Fuel/Hybrid Vehicle Commercialization Initiative, and for other purposes.

    S.Amdt.1362 to S.1042 - To require a report on the Department of Defense Composite Health Care System II.

    S.Amdt.1453 to S.1402 - To ensure the protection of military and civilian personnel in the Department of Defense from an influenza pandemic, including an avian influenza pandemic.

    S.Amdt.2301 to H.R.3010 - To increase funds to the Thurgood Marshall Legal Educational Opportunity Program and to the Office of Special Education Programs of the Department of Education for the purposes of expanding positive behavioral interventions and supports.

    S.Amdt.2605 to S.2020 - Expressing the sense of the Senate that the Federal Emergency Management Agency should immediately address issues relating to no-bid contracting.

    S.Amdt.2930 to S.2349 - To clarify that availability of legislation does not include nonbusiness days.
    S.Amdt.3144 to S.Con.Res.83 - To provide a $40 million increase in FY 2007 for the Homeless Veterans Reintegration Program and to improve job services for hard-to-place veterans

    S. Amdt 41 to S. 1 To require lobbyists to disclose the candidates, leadership PACs, or political parties for whom they collect or arrange contributions, and the aggregate amount of the contributions collected or arranged.

    ----------------------------------------------

    Barack has Written a total of 890 Bills and Co-sponsored Another 1096 since he started serving in the U.S. Senate.


    Oh, and these aren't counting his work in the Illinois State Senate either.....
    Im glad he isn't a Nothing, I'm not as worried if he is picked as president then. Thing is that I keep hearing that all of these bills weren't even passed and he is only known for passing 1 bill. He can always join in on an amendment or bill and then he gets credit for it, even though many others got the same credit. I want proof that he did something either single handedly or with a partener and was the main reason for it.

    Anyone can say they agree with something and sign theire name on it. Everytime experience comes up, Democrats never mentioend any of these accomplishments by Barack. This explains to me that either many Democrats don't know their own canidate, or that his resume is really not impressive when comparing him to other candidates. I first wanted to evaluate your arguement and get a more general answer. An example is what is he KNOWN FOR, not what bills he signed off on. What has he done single handedly or was the top guy in that made him signficently important? That's what I want to see. Then I will evaluate it and continue to my McCain accomplishments.Good argument regardless, just looking for general information on the question I bolded. Because I'm not going to waste my time and finding John McCain's minor stuff, I want to present the important stuff he's done that qualifies him to be president.If you can answer the bolded question, this argument can go quicker and be less elaborate and not turn into a huge discussion. And save us alot of time in the process. I just want important accomplishments that qualify him as president and can support his views that he speaks about. I will stop slandering Obama from now on, I just want to know if his record can back up his views, you understand?

  6. #21
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    winner by knock out!

    Paul, how long does it take you to draft McCain's list. I can't imagine it will take that long. As Tuner's post shows, youth does not mean inexperience. Since you believe that Palin is more experienced than Obama I would like to see a list of her accomplishments as well. Did she set up a bear-patrol in Alaska?

    Lol Bears? I dont think that can make someone get a 80% approval rating, Pat. I will list her accomplishments after I finish my argument with Turner. I won't forget.

  7. #22
    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    Obama's more experienced than this backwoods hillbilly, by far, but that's not even the point. Experience is not necessarily positive. You can be experienced in being an *******, the type of experience that basically makes you an undesirable candidate.

    With Obama, you have a guy who thinks deeply and with regard for much more than political ideology. So... there's your Sean Hannity, same old "attack democrats" argument, Paul.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Obama's more experienced than this backwoods hillbilly, by far, but that's not even the point. Experience is not necessarily positive. You can be experienced in being an *******, the type of experience that basically makes you an undesirable candidate.

    With Obama, you have a guy who thinks deeply and with regard for much more than political ideology. So... there's your Sean Hannity, same old "attack democrats" argument, Paul.
    That's why im looking for known accomplishments, more of that to me means more experience. A guy can be in the Senate for 80 years but if he does nothing than anyone can be more qualified for the Presidential job. Sean Hannity makes valid points about Obama, things he's said and the people he's associated himself with can't be ignored, this is what Hannity always says, is it wrong to not forget information like this? Information that can give people a differenet look and perspective on Obama? I think it's important.

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    This is the guy who feels he has a right to call out Obama, as a racist and a terrorist. Unless you have evidence, or even believe that, Obama has done anything like racist or terrorist, you just have to simply shut up.
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Sep 08, 2008 at 19:27.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    [YouTube:PllOLOt7e1A]

    Sean Hannity's associations.
    he's not running for president. And make that video a link so I can view it, im interested.

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    I've been thinking about it, and neither candidate has ANY experience whatsoever. Why? Neither has been president before.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    I want proof that he did something either single handedly or with a partner and was the main reason for it.
    Unfortunately (at least for the point you were trying to make) this isn't how democracy works. You cannot do things single-handedly. I also believe that making a good decision after weighting the options according to what your advisers tell you is a skill a president must have. This of course only works if you know how to pick the right advisers.

    I have the feeling that Obama has this skill. Especially after he weighted his options for so long and so well before choosing Biden. As from what I read McCain based his decision on gut feeling (Paul, you are more informed about the Republican party, so correct me if I am wrong).

    Personally, I believe that today's global affairs are to complicated to base any decision on gut feeling.

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    we don't need experience, we need change

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    Unfortunately (at least for the point you were trying to make) this isn't how democracy works. You cannot do things single-handedly. I also believe that making a good decision after weighting the options according to what your advisers tell you is a skill a president must have. This of course only works if you know how to pick the right advisers.

    I have the feeling that Obama has this skill. Especially after he weighted his options for so long and so well before choosing Biden. As from what I read McCain based his decision on gut feeling (Paul, you are more informed about the Republican party, so correct me if I am wrong).

    Personally, I believe that today's global affairs are to complicated to base any decision on gut feeling.
    McCain did take risks in his campaign and picking Sarah Palin was the biggest of all. I agree with you that he is a guy that picks on gut feeling, but also on strategy. Think about it, Sarah Palin shocked people from both sides. Obama didn't pick a women and McCain did, now I'm not saying he picked Palin because of that, but it did hit Obama pretty hard. Also no one really knew this girl enough to attack her right away, so they go after her family, which has nothing to do with her experience or ability to be a vice president. She brought over blue collar conservatives, female middle class women, some Clinton supporters not many right now but some; time will tell whether MCain can make an impact on more Clinton supporters. And she also brought over people that were confused if McCain still had that "Maverick/re-former" kind of attitutde and picking Palin just made that strong again.

    Obama's people are smart, very smart, I dont deny that, but remember that some of his advisors said things that Obama didn't believe in and he had to fire them. I have to go back in the records to find that story but I remember there was a point in the race when Obama's people and association couldn't do anything right. It was the time when the Jeremiah Wright stories popped up and when the association with Bill Aires came into play, and people started voting for McCain more frequently when hearing this information. So if you say he was smart in picking his advisors, it's yes and no becase they are all smart but have made mistakes that cost him votes in the past. And advisors shouldn't hurt the person they help run for President.

    If you think about it, McCain doesn't have to amaze everyone to win this race. He is not amazing, I personally feel that Rudy Gulliani or Romney would have been a stronger Repuclican President, but he isn't a slouch. He has a positive history in Arizona when it coms to Economics and was considered to be THE REASON for the Economic Boom in Arizona. This is what I meant by single-handed accomplishments, stuff he is KNOWN FOR. He is known as a re-former when he joined with Democrat Feingold and passed the law to limit political speech and advertising, showing that he can work with Democrats decently. This re-forming became stronger when it came to the Surge when he convinced Democrats to join his cause in installing more troops and staying in Iraq. Many democrats were against this and McCain was the only known Republican, with Democratic views, to really support this. In the end it work successfully and showed not only that he is a reformer, but has some knowledge on foreign policy. This also hit Obama and Biden hard because they voted against the Surge. Now if you say that Obama wasn't wrong, proof that he was wrong would simply be him being interviewed by Bill O'Reilly last week when he said that the Surge was a success. He couldn't admit that he was wrong in not supporting it, which got to me a little, but it wasn't a big issue.

    The Surge was not a gut feeling, this is were McCain's military background comes in and helps him. He knows with more troops and staying in Iraq that Al-Queda would eventually be beat, other politicians didn't feel this way. If you say that obviously more troops would make us win, then why didn't Barack Obama or Biden support it? Because they didn't think we'd win the war against Al-Queda. They thought we were going to lose and waste more lives. And that to me, shows a weakness in foreign policy.

    So bottom line, John McCain does have a gut feelins in some ways but he attacks strategy more than ever. I think he is more knowledgable than people think when it comes to decision making.

    Did I answer your question?

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    Originally Posted by jpz17
    we don't need experience, we need change
    McCain's campaign is now stressing to promote change as well, but saying that McCain's form of change is better, it's your choice whether you think McCain's or Obama's view of change is better. No matter who gets picked this country will change in many categories whether it's negative or positive.

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