Can Zach's trade value really go up? And what can be done for it to happen?
Well like the idea or not Donnie has turned down two deals to move our biggest contract. I for one have been a huge supporter of dumping Zach's contract, and probably wouldve done it for peanuts. But Donnie is taking a more patient approach and is believing that Zach can put up solid enough numbers for as long as he is a Knick this season in the hopes that teams will increase the value of other team's trade proposals for Zach.
I think this approach is very risky, but can still work. Tim Thomas got a nice deal from The LAC off of the strength of how he looke under Dantoni, Joe Johnson's potential was brought out under Mike D and was made into a franchise player by The Hawks, and ofcourse Nash went from an All Star to a League MVP. Now Zach is no Steve Nash (in fact I was hesitant to use that example) but, my point is good offensive players do well under Dantoni. I predict that Zachs numbers should be about the same as they were last year around 18 and 10
Now what needed to be done to increase his trade value?
First off we have to win, not a lot, but enough to show that Zach's numbers can help make a team better. I would say if we mirror the first half of the season Isiah had his first year as coach (like 25+ wins by the All Star break) then that will show the league that Zach can help a team improve.
Secondly; Eddy has to come off the bench and Lee has to be a starter. Reason being, David doesnt need the ball to be effective, Zach will gladly embrace the role of full time low post scorer. In fact I would probably never play those two together at the same time. Who knows Eddy's new role off the bench could prompt him to opt out next season!
Third: We need to knock down open shots! Zach will demand doubles, and we need to knock down shots to again show teams that Zach could be a vital part of TEAM Basketball
Fourth: Zach has to pass out of double teams. Ok stop laughing! This is where we have to pray that coach Dantoni's appeal to players can work. He is the master of getting players to play unselfish, if he can sell Zach on this then teams will take notice, and likely won't assume Donnie is still desperate to move him
Lastly: Stay out of court and on the court! If Zach gets injured or in another fight in a club, there is no chance in moving him and Donnie's pateince will indeed have back fired! But the good news is that he has stayed incident and injury free so far as a Knick!
There are teams that need help with scoring on the block (Sea,Chi,Mem,Cle) but everyone had thought that Donnie Walsh was pressed to move Zach so they were trying to make a steal in a deal for him, but, Donnie has held out so far, which in its self has increased his value somewhat. But the move is still a gamble, and lets just hope the gamble pays off!
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I see what you're saying. Personally I'd rather just lose him now because I can't stand the sight of him, but you make valid points as to Donnie's reasoning.
Increasing Zach's Trade Value.
New New York's points are well stated, but I fear it is wishful thinking. I hope the Darko for Z-Bo deal - in some form - is only dormant and not dead. I fear that despite his numbers, the Knicks under D'Antoni would be better off without Zach playing. I hate the thought of playing him only to showcase him and i fear that he will not thrive in D'Antoni's system. But Walsh knows far more than I do and New New York may be tapping into Walsh's thoughts.
Good post New York New York
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dang, sorry I'm not reading it haha wayyy too long
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Coming from a David Lee supporter, i would have to agree with you 100% man. well said. As everyone now knows Zach and Eddy CANNOT play up front together, they are simply ineffective. Yes, Curry needs to come of the bench and Lee needs to start, they only problem i have with that is if the first unit goes out flat one night, whose gonna energize the second unit (lee's old role)? perhaps chandler, but thats a coaching problem mike will figure out over time. By keeping Zach, yes, we will increase his value-but i wouldnt mind losing the guy right now as you mentioned. Good post New New York.
Originally Posted by New New York
I Definitely agree with your point, but I dont view donnies plan as a risk. I believe it is just good business. You dont make a move for peanuts when your building for 2 years down the road. basically what I Am getting at is, that as zach enters his last contractual season with the knicks, walsh knows that dolan will support either a buy out, or a trade if and when another superstar says that he wants to sign with the knicks, if it takes buying out zachs contract for one season, or making him an even more valuable trading chip knowing that he has one season left at 17 million, teams will salivate to get a 28 year old 17 mill exp contract on their squad. if it means buying him out then, or trading his exp contract in feb of 09, or feb of 2010, in order to get what we need for 10-11 then im all for it. in the words of frasier, kudos to donnie, for dreaming and scheming.
dude if your worried about david lee not being able to come off the bench to energize the team, then we already have a problem man. WE should not have to rely on energy off of the bench this year. IF mike D is as good of a coach as I truly believe he is, (personally I think he is a hands down candidate for his second coach of the year nod this year). Then the starting squad he puts on the floor will provide sufficient energy, so the bench can come in and just maintain the pace.
Originally Posted by D-Lee42fan
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A. Yes his trade value can go up (Bush was re-elected right)
B. Put his ass on a diet, and get him to pass the dam ball and play defence! (thats all )
I guess I'm not as optimistic as you guys. I don't think Zach's value will increase under D'Antoni. People don't change. Zach is not going to change (i.e. pass the ball, run the floor, play defense). And once D'Antoni realizes this, he will bench him, which will lower his value, and then Zach will throw a hissy-fit, which will lower his value. The sooner we get rid of our cancer players, the sooner we can get this franchise heading in the right direction.
Great point about showcasing because lets be real teams have talents scouts and they will know the difference between sound play, and a player who is being forced fed the ball in order to look good. But, I do believe that Mike Dantoni could be able to sell him on the concept of team ball, and this change of approach for Zach would increase his value tremendously because more than his lack of D it's been his selfish play that makes teams leary of him. But lets say he puts up 18 and 10 playing good team ball then we could get some real offers....Big if though!
Originally Posted by Oldtimer
Now again it is a huge gamble to think that Mike D could do this, especially with Zach thinking of himself as a player on the trading block. I mean if he honestly thought he had a future with the team then it could be easier to get him to play within the team, but, he may be assuming he going to be traded soon which could result in one of two scenerios; 1) He goes for self, puts up decent numbers but looks like the same ol ball hog; or 2) He shuts down and plays half-assed like he did the final 20 games of last season. Neither would boast well for trade value. So once again this is a major gamble, but, if coach could pull off turning Zach into a team player it would be Mike D
But why would you want to trade him then?
Originally Posted by New New York
I'd say yes only because we still want to be players in the free agent market two years from now, and also that we do have players who he is playing in front of. It appears that Danilo and Wilson are going to be part of our future, one of them will likely have to play PF so moving Zach allows them to gain some expeireince. Not to mention we still need to resign David Lee and no way we can do that keep Zach and still be under the cap.
So even if Zach is an All Star he still should be leaving for the future of the team
But if his numbers are solid, and his team play is solid (again big ifs) then look for teams to be offering instant expiring contracts and who knows maybe even a draft pick, which is a vast improvement from what we are being offered now!
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I don't care what anybody says. Zach Randolph is a top 10 NBA power forward. If he's on the team this year, I'm fine with it. Eddy Curry is who I want off this team. F*(k Curry(no homo).
Can Zach's trade value really go up?
Probably, on the next team under the right management, coaching staff, and a team with leadership players where the players will give Zach his role to play with them (Detroit).
The Knicks are not that team.
The Knicks are a "Rebuilding" team that had flaws throughout the entire organization for the last four years.
Everything in the Knick organization need to be stripped down to the bare.
New coach Dantoni will try alot of experiments with Zach in his rotation, but Zach have way to many "FLAWS" in his 20/10 performance which dont add up to 50% wins.
And like this thread said, "Wins is the important thing to raise Zach value on the market".
And what can be done for it to happen?
Sitting Zach Randolph at the start of the season will raise flags on the Knicks. But the Knicks starting schedule shows alot of loses (even with Zach in the lineup). The consistent loses will have many saying "add Zach to the lineup". Why? Because the Knicks will only have two Bigmen (Curry & Lee) in their rotation, and will have to use two or three SF at times.
But benching Zach will give Dantoni time to develope a system of 6 to 8 players in a rotation that fits his sheme.
When the time come to use Zach Randolph, he should be able to fit into the system to bring wins.