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Thread: Who else thinks the Knicks Should Have Traded Up in the Draft?

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    Superstar Scribbles's Avatar
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    Default Who else thinks the Knicks Should Have Traded Up in the Draft?

    I'll admit I'm still bitter after this year's draft.

    I really had high hopes and aspirations we could have landed Mayo via trade...now he would have been the face of the franchise.

    But seriously, we ended up overpassing some great talent for Danillo. With all due respect, he is going to be an average player at best if not bench...

    And with the #6 pick, it's got to be a franchise player more than anything else.

    Danillo is going to be none of that. His durability is horrible. He seems to be an erratic player from footage and his 1 game as a Knick.

    Do you honestly think Danillo is even going to be named a captain 3-4 years from now? He's gonna be a solid 6th man but then again we could have gotten a million of those.

    All I'm saying is at #6, that's too high of a pick to choose a 6th man. That's what the 2nd round is for.

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Mayo for sure was the Wolves pick and we simply didn't have the peices to make them come off that pick. Or at best a trade scenerio with them wouldve ended with us having to take on atleast Jarko's contract meaning our payroll wouldve increased with no chance to get under for the 2010 F.A. Class and Donnie wasnt going to (nor would it had been a good idea) to have given up players like Lee,Nate,and Rose (expiring contract) taken on long term contracts for the sake of grabbing Mayo, that is an Isiah Thomas type move all the way.

    Now about locking a franchise player at 6th, you have to be realistic. The middle of the lottery is a crap shoot. You can end up with a R.O.Y. or you can land a Dajuan Wagner, who was a player dubbed "The Next A.I.". Like Mike D said "It's not an exact science". Now I am with you in that I always want any Knick pick to result in a All Star be it number 1 in the lottery or the last pick of the second round! But, realistically you have to be level in your expectations of the pick.

    I like Danillo so far, but there is a chance a player like Augistine,Gordon, or Bayless could become All Stars making us all talk about what we shouldve done....or Danillo himself could become an All Star! You just never know

    But, our coach is excited about him, our players are too, plus with our bloated roster he is afforded sometime to grow. So likely not the R.O.Y. but very well could be a Toni Kukoc, Lamar Odom,Tyshaun Prince (minus the lock down D) type player who just helps his team win....or he can be something else and that is my whole point!

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    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Scribbles
    Danillo is going to be none of that. His durability is horrible. He seems to be an erratic player from footage and his 1 game as a Knick.

    Do you honestly think Danillo is even going to be named a captain 3-4 years from now? He's gonna be a solid 6th man but then again we could have gotten a million of those.

    All I'm saying is at #6, that's too high of a pick to choose a 6th man. That's what the 2nd round is for.
    How can you tell? We've seen him in one game so far and he ran into Tractor Traylor right away! I can see why you are worried about his durability but thinks like that can happen, first game of summer league or regular season. We have seen nothing so far that suggests anything about his skills. Maybe he is going to be the next Nowitzki, Gasol, Petrovic...?

    If he turns out to be a bust after the season, I will join into the chorus of criticism but for now, I'll just wait what is going to happen.

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    Lastseason Knicks Showcased 4 players "Crawford, Zach, Jefferies, and Fred Jones" under coach Isiah Thomas.

    Who else thinks the Knicks Should Have Traded Up in the Draft?

    If the Knick Owner is cleaning house from President on down then yes.... when it bowls down to the Knicks 6th draft pick instead of 1 to 4 pick with a 23 win season.... it is obvious you would trade up with one of your showcase players.... or trade down with your showcase players to get two late first round picks.

    It was obvious that the Wolves and Mayo was oil & water, that is where the Knicks could have entered into the Wolves & Memphis trade snerio with the trade of the 6th pick along with Zach, or Crawford, or Jefferies, and a throw in Collins or Balkman to get OJ Mayo and other players from either team.

    The 6th pick was valuable to get players "C-Brook Lopez" or "F-Alexander" or "G-Gordon" or "Bayless" or "G-Augustin" or "F-Rush" by the Wolves or Memphis (both their G.M.'s are not that bright when it comes down to quick decisions).

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    Superstar Scribbles's Avatar
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    ^
    I agree.

    When you win 23 games a season, you have to build around a franchise player for the future. I still don't know who the heck we're building around?! Who's even the captain? Crawford? Ha!

    Donnie was so eager to give up Balkman for cash and cap when in actuality, he could have easily bundled him with the #6 pick and a Fred Jones to acquire Mayo.

    Instead we go for Danillo and mark my words: If he plays consistent minutes, he will get fouled out of his first 5 games. The European game is far more hands on then the NBA. His hands is going to get him in foul trouble. He's going to have to be able to learn how to adjust to NBA rules.

    So why waste a 6th pick on a player that still has to develop under current rules? When Mayo is perhaps the most NBA ready talent behind Beasley.

    We COULD and SHOULD have traded for Mayo. He is a franchise player who we could have built around instead of picking up a random piece to fit on a team filled with random pieces and not ONE solidified star player. THAT is an Isiah move if you ask me.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Scribbles
    I'll admit I'm still bitter after this year's draft.

    I really had high hopes and aspirations we could have landed Mayo via trade...now he would have been the face of the franchise.

    But seriously, we ended up overpassing some great talent for Danillo. With all due respect, he is going to be an average player at best if not bench...

    And with the #6 pick, it's got to be a franchise player more than anything else.

    Danillo is going to be none of that. His durability is horrible. He seems to be an erratic player from footage and his 1 game as a Knick.

    Do you honestly think Danillo is even going to be named a captain 3-4 years from now? He's gonna be a solid 6th man but then again we could have gotten a million of those.

    All I'm saying is at #6, that's too high of a pick to choose a 6th man. That's what the 2nd round is for.
    First off you do not know the history or Danillo Gallinari, at all. He is currently 19 which made him a top world prospect at an age that would be considered in his high school years. He is also growing, his doctors say, and could go up to 6'11 soon.
    So take it this way, you have a top guy right out of high school who WAS A LEADER for his team in Milan against experienced grown men. He was the Kobe Bryant of his team, always shooting the big shots with the team and fans always relying on him to save the day. He was the "fire" type of inspiration on his team due to his aggressive style of basketball.

    This was a good pick, why? First off he is use to the New York type atmosphere because Milan is a huge city like New York with fans that won't hug and kiss you when you screw up. He has this pressure as a teenager and the most pressure because he was the main guy on his team. AND the league he played in is more competitive than the NCAA, ask anyone else that follows both NCAA and Euro basketball. Second, he is known for shooting, that is what Walsh always raves about when ever Danillo's name pops up. Shooting is his strength most of all, and if he turns out averaging 18 ppg in a few years, are you going to say that wasn't a good 6th pick? Of course there are guys that some feel we should have got. I felt we would have done better with either Augustine, Lopez, or Bayless. But if all of this info about him is true, with what his coaches say and what Walsh and Mike D say about him, then he has huge upside.

    You just don't know him and the league he played, if you did you wouldn't say all this. About his injury, it's a minor setback, I was worried at first. But i thought about it and if this heals and we never see back problems again, then he is far from injury prone. As of now, nothing to worry about when coming from Danillo's health, his back will heal soon. At worst, he won't play the first game, but he should play the rest.

    Gallinari does not have a history of injuries, so calm down. He is full of talent and has much upside. And had more pressure playing last year than any college player coming out of the 2008 draft did.

    We kept David Lee and got Gallinari, that can turn out better than any other situation.

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    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
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    so you all are thinking that any organization is happy to make deals with us? we are a 23 win team....would you like to recieve pieces of a losing team? or a rising star? i believe that dinnie exhausted all options with what he had, and got the best for the team. i believe this bcuz donnie does his research. he proved with with discovering and finding a way to trade the draft rights to weiss. tell me that wasnt impressive. he is making smart moves. Honestly, if u were a memphis fan, how would u feel if ur gm gave away ur pick for crawford and james? you cant just match salaries and say a gm is dumb for not making a trade.

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    Veteran GetRealistic's Avatar
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    6th pick
    Balkman
    Fred Jones ( who isn't even under contract

    For

    Mayo

    Come on man thats not even vaguely possible. We basically have one asset on this team and thats David Lee you may be able to make an arguement that Chandler has trade value but hes still unproven around the league. I can listen to arguements that say we should have drafted differently but the fact of the matter is we didn't have the assets to move up and make a trade.

    I agree with Toonz on this one, this isn't NBA Live just cause the salaries match doesn't mean the trade works.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    First off you do not know the history or Danillo Gallinari, at all. He is currently 19 which made him a top world prospect at an age that would be considered in his high school years. He is also growing, his doctors say, and could go up to 6'11 soon.
    So take it this way, you have a top guy right out of high school who WAS A LEADER for his team in Milan against experienced grown men. He was the Kobe Bryant of his team, always shooting the big shots with the team and fans always relying on him to save the day. He was the "fire" type of inspiration on his team due to his aggressive style of basketball.

    This was a good pick, why? First off he is use to the New York type atmosphere because Milan is a huge city like New York with fans that won't hug and kiss you when you screw up. He has this pressure as a teenager and the most pressure because he was the main guy on his team. AND the league he played in is more competitive than the NCAA, ask anyone else that follows both NCAA and Euro basketball. Second, he is known for shooting, that is what Walsh always raves about when ever Danillo's name pops up. Shooting is his strength most of all, and if he turns out averaging 18 ppg in a few years, are you going to say that wasn't a good 6th pick? Of course there are guys that some feel we should have got. I felt we would have done better with either Augustine, Lopez, or Bayless. But if all of this info about him is true, with what his coaches say and what Walsh and Mike D say about him, then he has huge upside.

    You just don't know him and the league he played, if you did you wouldn't say all this. About his injury, it's a minor setback, I was worried at first. But i thought about it and if this heals and we never see back problems again, then he is far from injury prone. As of now, nothing to worry about when coming from Danillo's health, his back will heal soon. At worst, he won't play the first game, but he should play the rest.

    Gallinari does not have a history of injuries, so calm down. He is full of talent and has much upside. And had more pressure playing last year than any college player coming out of the 2008 draft did.

    We kept David Lee and got Gallinari, that can turn out better than any other situation.
    You made a great point about Gallinari past and what his future may bring however, you forgot to layout what the Knicks were in need of on Draft Night being a "repeated" 23 win team. Take into account....

    The Knicks have a PF-David Lee, who is a double-double player with just 30 mpg.
    We also found out at the end of the season that we had a decent SF-Wilson Chandler that was molding on the bench sitting next to Jerome James all season.
    SF-Wilson Chandler 30 mpg performance may become 16 pts, 6 reb, 2 ast, and 1 blk, with consistent playingtime.

    Having these two young 30 mpg future players at the PF and SF position on your roster for the 2008-9 season should make a team look at forfilling the other 3 positions (Center and both Guards spot) left open with a young player in the draft with the 6th pick.

    After watching four (4) years of the Marbury & Crawford show over 85% of Knick-Fans, Knick Media, and the Knick Organization wanted the 6th pick to be one of the "Top Guards" in this draft or "C-Brook Lopez" to replace Curry & James performance. This way you would not have heard one "BOO" in the Knicks selection on draft night.

    The Knicks Organization did not waste anytime in the FA market signing PG-Duhorn ASAP, to quiet down alot of noise being made (in and out of the organization) about another season with Marbury & Crawford when the oportunity was there with the 6th pick to select one of the future Top Guards which was available from the selection of Bayless, Augustin, and Gordon.
    Did the Knicks do their homework on the Guards in this draft?
    This season will tell...

    The Knick Number One Goal in the 2008 Draft was to do their Damnest to get the 3rd pick of the draft "NBA Ready Guard O.J. Mayo", or accept outstanding SG-Gordon to put in a future line-up of Lee & Chandler.

    After watching the performance of "Mayo & Gordon" in the NCAA it is hard to doubt that these two players will not be in the "Top-5" runnings for the ROY.
    That can not be said about Danillo Gallinari when you do have alot of small habits like "hand-checking" inwhich Scribbles put to our attention that takes time to stop doing (out of habit). It did take alot of NBA players 2 to 3 years to stop doing when that rule was first put in the NBA.

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    Originally Posted by GetRealistic
    6th pick
    Balkman
    Fred Jones ( who isn't even under contract

    For

    Mayo

    Come on man thats not even vaguely possible. We basically have one asset on this team and thats David Lee you may be able to make an arguement that Chandler has trade value but hes still unproven around the league. I can listen to arguements that say we should have drafted differently but the fact of the matter is we didn't have the assets to move up and make a trade.

    I agree with Toonz on this one, this isn't NBA Live just cause the salaries match doesn't mean the trade works.
    Hold on.... let me get this right.

    You dont think that Keven Mchale would have accepted a two years experience first round pick of a NBA hustling "Tazman Balkman" (who was pushing Tractor Trailor around) along with the 6th pick for a player "OJ Mayo" who showed repeatedly before the draft he dont want to be apart of the Wolves organization? Do you recall all the players that were available at the 6th pick inwhich Mchale could have selected for a dynamic young team?

    Who do you think could've helped out "PF-Al Jefferson" more in Minesota, at the SF position Miller or Balkman?

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Who do you think could've helped out "PF-Al Jefferson" more in Minesota, at the SF position Miller or Balkman?
    Mike Miller. He is a much better player than Balkman.

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    Veteran GetRealistic's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    Hold on.... let me get this right.

    You dont think that Keven Mchale would have accepted a two years experience first round pick of a NBA hustling "Tazman Balkman" (who was pushing Tractor Trailor around) along with the 6th pick for a player "OJ Mayo" who showed repeatedly before the draft he dont want to be apart of the Wolves organization? Do you recall all the players that were available at the 6th pick inwhich Mchale could have selected for a dynamic young team?

    Who do you think could've helped out "PF-Al Jefferson" more in Minesota, at the SF position Miller or Balkman?
    There is absolutely no way Balkman and the 6th pick would have landed us Mayo. Not even a 1% chance. You may hate Walsh but do you really think if the market for Balkman was so high we only would have gotten a second round pick for Balkman.

    Plain and simple Balkman is not a player whose gonna give you more then an occasionaly night of good hustle plays. Balkman was a waste of a 21st pick. We should have deffinately selected Marcus Williams or some of the other players available at that time. Balkman has zero basketball IQ and his jumpshot is on par with Chris Dudley.

    I can say without a doubt that Miller playing alongside Al Jefferson is far superior pair then Jefferson and Balkman. Jefferson is a highly skilled post player who can pass out of double teams. And Mike Miller is a lethal jumpshooter and an underrated defender. Mike Miller was a former 6th man of the year that you can pencil in to average 16ppg a game. While Balkman will be the 8th or 9th guy off the bench in Denver.

    I don't see where or how Balkman will get any minutes on Denver this season. They have Nene, Martin, Melo, Chris Anderson, Steven Hunter, and Kleiza to play the majority of the front court minutes.

    I think alot of us went overboard on Balkman because on a team filled with underachiving players who rarely seemed to play with heart Balkman was on of the only guys who actually hustled, but when it comes down to it, Balkman just isn't a NBA player.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    You made a great point about Gallinari past and what his future may bring however, you forgot to layout what the Knicks were in need of on Draft Night being a "repeated" 23 win team. Take into account....

    The Knicks have a PF-David Lee, who is a double-double player with just 30 mpg.
    We also found out at the end of the season that we had a decent SF-Wilson Chandler that was molding on the bench sitting next to Jerome James all season.
    SF-Wilson Chandler 30 mpg performance may become 16 pts, 6 reb, 2 ast, and 1 blk, with consistent playingtime.

    Having these two young 30 mpg future players at the PF and SF position on your roster for the 2008-9 season should make a team look at forfilling the other 3 positions (Center and both Guards spot) left open with a young player in the draft with the 6th pick.

    After watching four (4) years of the Marbury & Crawford show over 85% of Knick-Fans, Knick Media, and the Knick Organization wanted the 6th pick to be one of the "Top Guards" in this draft or "C-Brook Lopez" to replace Curry & James performance. This way you would not have heard one "BOO" in the Knicks selection on draft night.

    The Knicks Organization did not waste anytime in the FA market signing PG-Duhorn ASAP, to quiet down alot of noise being made (in and out of the organization) about another season with Marbury & Crawford when the oportunity was there with the 6th pick to select one of the future Top Guards which was available from the selection of Bayless, Augustin, and Gordon.
    Did the Knicks do their homework on the Guards in this draft?
    This season will tell...

    The Knick Number One Goal in the 2008 Draft was to do their Damnest to get the 3rd pick of the draft "NBA Ready Guard O.J. Mayo", or accept outstanding SG-Gordon to put in a future line-up of Lee & Chandler.

    After watching the performance of "Mayo & Gordon" in the NCAA it is hard to doubt that these two players will not be in the "Top-5" runnings for the ROY.
    That can not be said about Danillo Gallinari when you do have alot of small habits like "hand-checking" inwhich Scribbles put to our attention that takes time to stop doing (out of habit). It did take alot of NBA players 2 to 3 years to stop doing when that rule was first put in the NBA.
    Your right, I focused on Gallinari and didn't talk about the Draft Night situation. Apparently from what I remember the Grizzlies wanted Lee, Rose and our pick for the 5th pick (Mayo/Love). Now I was all for getting Mayo and if i was GM i might have made the move in trading away Lee and a guy coming of a contract for Mayo. I saw all star talent in Mayo in his skill and attitude towards the game, he has great work ethic which you really can't teach. It's desire, and I loved Mayo on draft night possibly coming here, thing is that Gallinari could bring more to the table than people expect. And even if Mayo could turn out scoring 20 ppg, we can still have an A shooter in Gallo, an A rebounder in Lee with some offense, and still get money back from Rose's contract.

    In the long run, getting Gallinari could have payed off if you take in the fact that Lee can be a starting PF and that we can get help financially with Rose's contract ending. We have 3 positives for one positive in Mayo. By laying it out that way, Walsh's move is clearly understandable.

    After all this, it puts more pressure on Gallinari to be the top shooter/aggressive leader we all hear he is. And he has to develop quickly or Walsh will never hear the end of it.

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    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Assuming that there were no possible trades that wouldve made mayo a member of the knicks then i think what we did (drafting gallinari) was the right move. I just hope his back is ok. To me there werent any players who stood out as being alot better then the rest when we picked, and i think gallinari has the most upside so it was the right move in my opinion.

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    Superstar Scribbles's Avatar
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    A lot of great replies in this thread.

    When I proposed the trade. I didn't necessarily mean those players precisely.

    I don't mean to sound Kobe-ish, but when it came to draft night - I would have traded D. Lee to MIN along with the #6 if it would have landed Mayo. Ship his ass out.

    Last year, we missed on picking up Artest b/c we thought Lee would flourish that year. He did the same numbers as the previous year which are impressive but he still hasn't really been an impact player in any Knicks games thus far. When you shop to get a big man in this league - you're not just looking for numbers but more so - a strong presence down low that will intimidate offensive players from attacking the basket.

    I can respect his hustle, and everyone loves that about his game. But realistically, he's no real threat down low. He still has yet to find some inside presence. He gets pushed around and plays clumsy like. His skill is a less attractive version of Marcus Camby's game.

    So Lee has held the Knicks from acquiring Artest, and now Mayo.

    To me, Lee is just a moving piece and not a franchise player. And the fact that some people think he is the face of our franchise just goes to show you how bad it's become.

    The Knicks are lucky that teams have a keen interest in Lee and are willing to give up star players for him.

    I STILL DON'T KNOW WHO ARE WE BUILDING AROUND? CAN SOMEONE PLEASE ANSWER THAT QUESTION FOR ME? LOL

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