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Thread: Early observation on Preseason

  1. #1
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    Nyk Logo Early observation on Preseason

    The Knicks need Bigmen! and alot of trades before the regular season starts.

    Did anyone notice something different about Dantoni coaching in the 3rd preseason game, which was a home game?

    Dantoni did not run an uptempo run n gun system in MSG to enlighten the home fans.

    Every coach has a different process on how their Training-Camp and Preseason games are done.
    The Knicks coaching of the preseason process started in search for the best chemistry players to fit into an uptempo fast transition system.
    Three Knick players earned an "A" in creating, pushing the ball, and completing in an uptempo run n gun system with a small lineup or big lineup.
    Nate Robinson earned an A+
    David Lee earned an A+
    Wilson Chandler earned an A
    Marbury earned a B+
    Duhorn earned a C+
    All the rest of the Knick Players earned a C or less in this Dantoni uptempo system.
    If you seen different please mention it?

    The main objective here is the lineup of Marbury, Nate, Chandler, Lee, Duhorn, and Malik Rose out-played the 76ers to come away with a 38-13 quarter in the Knicks 2nd preseason game inwhich other Knick teammates started to follow in suit that resulted in a Knick Win early in the 4th quarter.

    In the 3rd preseason game vs the same 76ers our coach Dantoni refuse to put that same 38-13 lineup on the court (Think of the reaction of the Phoenix players if this was done to them).
    The 76ers played their regular season Starters for 30 or more minutes of playingtime plus gave their best bench players 16 or more minutes of playingtime vs the Knicks.
    Should players Marbury and Nate be a little upset about Dantoni strategy that resulted in a Knick loss? when it was clear to everyone that the Knicks 4 starters was aghausted and tired throughout their entire 4th quarter performance.

    Was the MSG fans wrong for booing Dantoni after the game???

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    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
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    they didnt boo him after the game. and kiyah, these games dont mean anything....so as a coach, this is your experimenting time. Many teams dont even play their good players for more than 20 minutes, and ur beating coach d's nuts because he didnt keep that line up? so, ur saying, that lineup.....which includes malik rose and excludes zach is our best team? and that we can run that lineup against any team and get a 39-13 lead every quarter. lets give coach at least a week b4 u get on him

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    Superstar dre48ny's Avatar
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    That's absolutely right. This is the time to try and experiment, these losses don"t mean ****. D'Antoni is smart and he is filtering what each player can do, whick players play well together, etc. I wanna see preseaseon games after October 22nd and on and see what progress is being showed. I am really impressed with DLee, D'Antoni and his system have suddenly escalated his game to a very high level, one that will have many teams and players talking about him.

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    Toons, the way coach Dantoni started the preseason in Toronto, it was clear to all eyes he was in search for as many Knick Players that could play under his "seven second" plan on attacking the offensive glass before oponents could setup on defense. Which will result in a 100 or more point game.

    Dantoni change that strategy in the 3rd Pre-game, and it looked like Marbury & Nate was clueless of what he was doing because they expected Chandler & Lee to be their rebounders while they push the ball and slash to the hoop.

    The Knick players that showed they can not keep up with Nate & Marbury pushing the ball in this uptempo system in all three games were Zach, Q.Rich, and Crawford. Curry 5 minutes of playingtime should not have been with Nate pushing the ball, especially in the first quarter.

    If this is just the Preseason games why Ewing Jr. and Roberson has yet to get any playingtime? and why is Mardy Collins only limited a few minutes of playingtime late in the game?

    And all those BOO'S were directed at Dantoni, not any Knick player. Curry got his BOO'S at the end of the first quarter.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    The Knicks need Bigmen! and alot of trades before the regular season starts.

    Did anyone notice something different about Dantoni coaching in the 3rd preseason game, which was a home game?

    Dantoni did not run an uptempo run n gun system in MSG to enlighten the home fans.

    Every coach has a different process on how their Training-Camp and Preseason games are done.
    The Knicks coaching of the preseason process started in search for the best chemistry players to fit into an uptempo fast transition system.
    Three Knick players earned an "A" in creating, pushing the ball, and completing in an uptempo run n gun system with a small lineup or big lineup.
    Nate Robinson earned an A+
    David Lee earned an A+
    Wilson Chandler earned an A
    Marbury earned a B+
    Duhorn earned a C+
    All the rest of the Knick Players earned a C or less in this Dantoni uptempo system.
    If you seen different please mention it?

    The main objective here is the lineup of Marbury, Nate, Chandler, Lee, Duhorn, and Malik Rose out-played the 76ers to come away with a 38-13 quarter in the Knicks 2nd preseason game inwhich other Knick teammates started to follow in suit that resulted in a Knick Win early in the 4th quarter.

    In the 3rd preseason game vs the same 76ers our coach Dantoni refuse to put that same 38-13 lineup on the court (Think of the reaction of the Phoenix players if this was done to them).
    The 76ers played their regular season Starters for 30 or more minutes of playingtime plus gave their best bench players 16 or more minutes of playingtime vs the Knicks.
    Should players Marbury and Nate be a little upset about Dantoni strategy that resulted in a Knick loss? when it was clear to everyone that the Knicks 4 starters was aghausted and tired throughout their entire 4th quarter performance.

    Was the MSG fans wrong for booing Dantoni after the game???
    Z-Bo played at least as well as Duhon, but I think he is in the A-/B+ range.

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    Originally Posted by dre48ny
    That's absolutely right. This is the time to try and experiment, these losses don"t mean ****. D'Antoni is smart and he is filtering what each player can do, whick players play well together, etc. I wanna see preseaseon games after October 22nd and on and see what progress is being showed. I am really impressed with DLee, D'Antoni and his system have suddenly escalated his game to a very high level, one that will have many teams and players talking about him.
    It's not about WINS or LOSSES! it's about the chemistry of players in a "seven second" uptempo system. Finding the players and building the players to be creative in this system so the rest of team could follow in suit.
    So far in the three games we all have picked certain Knick players that can play in this system well.
    Curry & Zach cant, although Zach been working hard at it, he still slow down his teammates in this system. Knicks need running Bigmen! Brand, Speights, Evan, and Young beat Zach back on defense each time on the court.

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    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    It's not about WINS or LOSSES! it's about the chemistry of players in a "seven second" uptempo system. Finding the players and building the players to be creative in this system so the rest of team could follow in suit.
    So far in the three games we all have picked certain Knick players that can play in this system well.
    Curry & Zach cant, although Zach been working hard at it, he still slow down his teammates in this system. Knicks need running Bigmen! Brand, Speights, Evan, and Young beat Zach back on defense each time on the court.
    Zach played really well against the 6ers. He's a PF, he scores, he rebounds, he can shoot, he made rebounds on transitional buckets. What more do you want?

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    I don't agree that Z-Bo is struggling in this system. He looked ok offensively. However its not the "o" that's a problem its the "d".IMO Isiah put a bunch of offensive scorers on the team because we were known as a good def. team and needed scoring. Now every1 can score but no one can play "d". 100 pt per gm is plenty. But if you give up 50+percent shooting it won't work consitantly. D'antoni is currently scouting the knicks and is trying to use what he's got. Remember that he has to win back the fans too. So if that means playing Curry 15min off the bench in the pre-sesn to convince the fans he sucks and is just another body and 6fouls then that's what he is going to do. Let's break it down. Marbaury prob won't be here (too much$) so why start him when the long term plan is another point gd. Lee is the only val. trade piece so IMO he will be dealt by the deadline(prob in a package) because signing him would hinder 2010 plans. Z-bo can be traded if he gets minutes and ups his value so he starts and scores a lot but isn't a def threat dwn low so isn't a good fit overall w/o a def big man to patrol the paint. Crawford as I said over the summer is mediocre at best but also fits D'antonis system. The problem is he isn't a good on ball defender.Simply put a smaller team/lineup need good on ball defenders, good help def and guys who play the lanes well. The knicks have none of the above. You have good off. chemistry (now that the ball is actually moving) but poor def. chemistry. The knicks have to take 1step back to take 2forward. This means trading Lee, Curry, or even Zbo or Chandler to bring in some def minded hopefully or PF to balance the team and add def..We didn't look bad but we lost a lot. Had we won a lot of fans would of not made such a big deal about Starbaury Crawful Curry etc. Fans need someone to blame. Def wins games. Getting stops turnovers etc in crucial moments wins games. Look for the knicks to evaluate and make moves by the trade deadline.

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    Veteran GetRealistic's Avatar
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    KIYA They've played 3 games in this system. I repeat 3 games. Its a learning process, nobody is going to overnight learn to play a brand new system. The fact that they've scored 110 point plus a night must mean thier atleast begining to grasp the system.

    You need to relax and let the PREseason unfold, once were about 5 games into the season you can begin your rants about how Donnie Walsh should have magically traded all the unwanted players we have on this team. You want Eddy Curry, Crawford, or Randolph traded... Guess what that means David Lee is going in a package with them, so i would be careful what you wish for.

    Curry played 5 minutes in the preseason, relax. From the looks of it he doesn't seem like hes going to get any real minutes until he proves he's capable of playing well (which seems unlikely) but the fact he remains at some point during the season were going to need a 7 footer to atleast buy us minutes off the bench so this is the time for Curry to play. Its not like D'Antoni force fed us Curry for 30 minutes. The guy played around 5 minutes in a preason game. I don't see what problem is.

    Now Zach obviously isn't ideal for the system but if we don't play Zach that leaves us with one legit rebounder and no lost post scoring so scrap that genius idea. You mention that all the 76er plays beat Zbo but didn't your beloved David Lee guard some of those Sixers big men and not help shut off the paint? Guess you forgot to mention that.

    Also if you want to give true grades its time you be honest about your pet players.

    Nate has been impressive but until he fights over screens the guy can't get an A+

    Lee again has been really good and should get a contract extension.. But he don't play any defense either so hows he getting a A +?

    I really am not a Malik Rose fan but if you want to be completely honest he's played well in the preseason which is suprising. He'd be really good if he didn't think he had an offense game. He still trys to score when he has no offense.

    This isn't even an anti Marbury comment but how could he have earned a B+? even the biggest Marbury supporter would have to say at best hes been a B-, he's been alright but he hasn't done anything impressive to the point where he should warrant great praise.
    Last edited by GetRealistic; Oct 16, 2008 at 09:20.

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    zach has to play !!!! and he has done well....in this system if he continues to hustle and offensive rebound the way he has the team will be better....

    I think our goals should be the 8th seed of the playoffs....


    also our best lineup is

    nate pg
    marbury sg
    Qrich sf
    crandler pf
    zach C

    6th D. Lee, 7th Duhon, 8th (when he is hot ) crawford, 9 curry ( use him like Biedrins on golden state)

    and hopefully when this kid Gallenari can shoot and play the 3man some when he is back to keep Q healthy....

    this isn't our best lineup right now....but if it was game 7 of the playoffs and we needed 4 good mins of bball thats who I would roll with

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    1. Duhon - good guard, ok off, mediocre def. Charlie Ward type (pass first guard)2. Crawful - ok shooting grd, poor shot selection, low perc. streaky scorer, poor def!3. Q rich- mediocre fwd, can hit the 3 when open, cannot create own shot, poor defender, poor rebounder4. Lee - great role player, scrapy, rebounds, good passer good low pst and ok mid range shot. Unselfish. Undersized but a great fit to pair w/a dominate big man. OK low post def but against bigger pf has problems. 5. Zbo great scorer, poor low post def. high basketball awrness. Also undersized and @14 mil/yr a bit over pricedAnyone see a pattern? All are ok off. not great but ok none are good defensively. Chandler and Lee are their most valuable prospects. One will HAVE to be traded/packaged to get a big man who plays def and rebounds. Even if we win all our games by the deadline I can gaurentee Someone Will Be Traded! "Our help defense, rotation to the ball, low post def, def boards are and have been a joke! I don't care who is traded (although I know lee and chandler would be a great to keep) it won't matter when a good defensive big comes in and changes our def. chemistry. My ? is who can we possibly get asap?

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    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    And all those BOO'S were directed at Dantoni, not any Knick player. Curry got his BOO'S at the end of the first quarter.
    You wish. And even if, I can see what he is aiming at and I like what I see. And as I have said in another thread before: the "no useless trades" policy is something I can very much relate to. Hell, I hate Marbury and I have a strong dislike for Zach but as long as we don't get anything valuable in return, I prefer sticking with them for now, rather than all that "Isiah-style" experimenting.

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    Originally Posted by pat
    You wish. And even if, I can see what he is aiming at and I like what I see. And as I have said in another thread before: the "no useless trades" policy is something I can very much relate to. Hell, I hate Marbury and I have a strong dislike for Zach but as long as we don't get anything valuable in return, I prefer sticking with them for now, rather than all that "Isiah-style" experimenting.
    Damn Pat, we usually see eye to eye on things. But McCain???

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    Although there have been some pleasant surprises, the preseason has showed me that we still have 3 huge weaknesses. Shot-blocking, perimeter shooting and perimeter defense. These have been issues for the Knicks for several years now and until we address them we will be at the bottom of the league, regardless of coach and system.

    The lineup should be:

    PG- Marbury
    SG- Q Rich
    SF- Chandler
    PF- Lee
    C- Zach

    With Nate, Crawford, Duhon and Curry (soon to be Jeffries when he gets healthy) coming off the bench. Hopefully Gallo can get healthy soon too. We need his shooting.

    Hopefully the lineup of the future will be somthing like:

    PG-Rubio or Jennings
    SG-Chandler
    SF-Gallo
    PF-Lee
    C-Sean Williams
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Oct 16, 2008 at 15:23.

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    Originally Posted by GetRealistic
    This isn't even an anti Marbury comment but how could he have earned a B+? even the biggest Marbury supporter would have to say at best hes been a B-, he's been alright but he hasn't done anything impressive to the point where he should warrant great praise.
    Even i will say i think hes been a C+ so far. Hes looked good but his turnovers in the first 2 games, and his fouls in the most recent game bring him down to a c+. I give him a small edge over Duhon, who i would give a C too. Duhons playing the best he can play, but Marbury is capable of raising his grade up a letter once he gets into a rhythm. As much as i wanna agree with Kiyaman, i cant even say hes been a b+

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