Constitutional Convention Calling (Clear sign of Warning)

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Well You're wrong there. Peace on earth has already started amongst God's people. You can never say you have seen Jehovah's witnesses on any battle front, supporting any war, or racism, or any of the sort. There are witnesses of every race, creed and color all over the globe, who worship the same God, and respect and love not only their brotherhood, but also the world enough to preach the good news of God's Kingdom, house to house, in hopes of saving all who are rightly disposed (willing to listen and act)

Not all Jehovah's Witnesses are God's people. Especially the ones that molest children.



 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
I hope you are right, that someday all of God's people can live in peace with one another, but the world is tainted with evils.

He doesn't mean everyone is God's people, only his group of people (Jehovah's Witnesses) are God's people.

Like all religions, each one believes their version of their made up story about an invisible man is the right version and better than everybody else's version of their made up story about an invisible man. And only believers of their version of the made up story about an invisible man are the invisible man's children and will have happiness.

So according to him... No, you (and everybody else) will never live in peace unless you believe his version of the made up story about an invisible man.
 
Not all Jehovah's Witnesses are God's people. Especially the ones that molest children.





Clearly, when speaking about Jehovah's witnesses, I speak in terms of the group as a whole, since no one individual is more, or less important to God. For you to isolate this individual, just goes to show how far you will go to try and prove to yourself that all religion is bad. Jesus spoke these words regarding false religion, vs true.

Mat 7:
15 ?Be on the watch for the false prophets that come to YOU in sheep?s covering, but inside they are ravenous wolves. 16By their fruits YOU will recognize them(Things they do according to their spirituality). Never do people gather grapes from thorns or figs from thistles, do they? 17 Likewise every good tree produces fine fruit, but every rotten tree produces worthless fruit; 18 a good tree cannot bear worthless fruit, neither can a rotten tree produce fine fruit. 19 Every tree not producing fine fruit gets cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Really, then, by their fruits YOU will recognize those [men].
21 ?Not everyone saying to me, ?Lord, Lord,? will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.

Jesus compared the religions of the world to trees bearing either worthless fruit, or good fruit. He did not single out 1 person in a religious group, he lumped them all into one grouping. And as a whole, Jehovah's people do the world a service, in retrospect.

Jehovah's witnesses as individuals, struggle with imperfection just like every other person on the planet. Some even commit gross acts of immorality that goes directly against Jehovah's will. Jehovah has punished those who act that way many times in the past, and present. He wants a clean organization, and those who bear his name, must bear it with righteousness. He makes no exceptions. Clearly, this man thought he was getting by with his acts, but he should have known better. Jehovah sees all, and will expose it in his own due time, to benefit the whole of the group who choose to remain clean in service, and serve him. But even this man, if he repents will be welcomed back into the fold. He may already have been. Jehovah is not looking for perfection from imperfect people. He is however looking for genuine repentance due to him sending his only begotten, so that we can attain repentance, and ever lasting life.

As a group, and there are over 7 million of them, no one can say that Jehovah's witness are a peril to society. That is because they take their dedication to God very seriously. They are no part of the world, and no group is made up of more races and creed, that interact in such global harmony, and promote peace under God more actively. There are households that don't agree in their daily activities, but because of Jehovah's blessing, all over the world, there are 7 million worshipers who follow the same faith in unison, no exceptions. One solid faith.

Bottom line is, there is just something very different about Jehovah's people, than other faiths in the world. Just reality.
 
Religion has been one of the worst violators and infringers on possible world peace. Extremist Muslims flew planes into the WTC, Romans captured Catholics and put them in the coliseum, Hitler slayed 6 million Jews.
FALSE RELIGION IS BEHIND THOSE ACTS. That is why people in the world hate religion, which is in turn why one day very soon, there will be no more false religion in this system.

Here is why there are so many religions in the world. Because the enemy of God wants to cloud man's judgment, so they cannot gain the life that was intended for them. It is a brilliant plan, and it has even worked for the majority of mankind. The more religions, and the more damage they do, the harder it is to find the truth, or would a man even want to? So even when one comes across the truth, they would have to really be searching for God to even make it their own.

I'll say this, in any of those cases you named, did Jehovah's witnesses have a part in them? Hmmm...

Think about all the people that kill and die in the name of God or Jesus or Jehovah or Yahweh or whomever. Religion, in theory is a great thing, but there are people out there (not world leaders though) that use religion as a way of blinding and getting the masses to kill those who do not believe their religious beliefs. Christian ministers are seen all the time on television saying they are excited to see non-Christians burn at Armageddon. People like Charles Manson and Jim Jones and David Koresch used religion to get the weak to buy into their outlandish theories and led them toward a path of destruction (Manson went so far as to claim he was the second coming of Jesus Christ).
I hear you, and feel exactly where you come from. All you have named is just a small mention of why people hate religion. Because if God was what the bible says he is, then he would not be behind these people, or organizations who do this, correct? Well, who says he is? The bible says God takes no delight in the death of the wicked. That means people who know the truth, and disobey anyway. He'd rather see the wicked one gain repentance, and life eternal. If he does not take delight in that, why would he take delight in a person burning in hell forever? Is there even a fiery hell? If a fiery hell did exist, and it is supposed to be for people who don't obey God only, then someone intelligent will have to explain why God let Jesus go there for three days, when he lived and died perfectly obeying him. Does not add up.

This is why Jehovah has set up an earthly organization to help people learn the truth about him, and they don't do it by tv evangalizing, or the sort, they do it how Jesus did, discreetly, door to door, house to house. So no one will be missed. If you miss out, it will be because you chose to, not because God did not make sure you had a chance to hear the message.

That is not to say there are not benefits to religion, if it is used as a tool to teach people how to act, how to treat others and how to behave it can be a very very positive thing that can help people turn their lives toward good. But then there are hate mongers (within every religion) that use religion and zealots to kill, maim, destroy or otherwise hurt those around them.
I have been around Jehovah's witnesses a long time. I have never known a group to bear his name, and go off killing or destroying, or hurting. Now as with this incident that LJ4pointplay brought up, there are instances when an individual steps outside of the arrangement to do works opposite of the spirit. But as a whole, you will never see a JW Jihad, or mass destruction, or the sort. In fact, if you really think about it, you probably have not heard to many bad things about the way Jehovah's witnesses live at all. People may disagree on our beliefs, but as citizens, be hard pressed to find people who hate the way JW's live in society.

I hope you are right, that someday all of God's people can live in peace with one another, but the world is tainted with evils.

Well, this topic is about war, and this war is brought on in some way due to religion. If you hate religion and what it has stood for, imagine how God feels about it? It's really his name that is getting tainted by the whole thing! Regardless of what faith a person is, if they believe in God, whatever their conduct is, it will reflect him. This is why JW's try so hard to live by God's laws and principles, to reflect him as best we can, and to show truly how God intended for man to live, in spiritualand physical peace and prosperity. This is why they bear the name Jehovah's witnesses, because they are the only people on earth who truly know him, and they show it by obeying him.

That is not to say that there are people of other faiths who don't know of God, because most of the 7 million followers have come from other religions, to become witnesses. But they see the same things you do. That if God is backing those religions, who war, strife, and don't try to live a Goldly life, then religion is crap.

Jehovah hates false religion so much, that his word says he will put in the hearts of the kings of the earth to turn on it. Right now.. we live in that very time. We are literally a hop, skip and jump from seeing the day we all can't even fathom, really. When religion is killed. Even if you don't believe a word about what i'm saying, all the signs in the world point to religion being swallowed up. Churches are turning into night clubs, people could really care less about it. And those who do, are deemed radicals and fanatics, and most people blame them for the state of the world! You think the world leaders don't see how little religion is respected world wide? You don't think that they talk about banning it behind closed doors, to see if doing so would rid them of religious wars?

One day.. We're all gonna look up, and False religion is going to be gone.. And then people will say " Those stupid Jehovah's witnesses been preaching Jehovah is going to kill false religion for decades, and we scoffed, maybe there really is a Jehovah"

But then it will be too late.
 
He doesn't mean everyone is God's people, only his group of people (Jehovah's Witnesses) are God's people.

Like all religions, each one believes their version of their made up story about an invisible man is the right version and better than everybody else's version of their made up story about an invisible man. And only believers of their version of the made up story about an invisible man are the invisible man's children and will have happiness.

So according to him... No, you (and everybody else) will never live in peace unless you believe his version of the made up story about an invisible man.

Men are from monkeys. And not even conceived, they just happened to gradually transform into men. Next, Optimus Prime will appear at my door. Funny thing is, the Bible deals with more modern human events than science's finest versions of evolution. Yet you say it's a fairy tale, rather than evolution.

And again, Jehovah's witnesses are already experiencing in many ways the sort of peace God intends for mankind, while the world is in turmoil. So why should I believe in something else, when I have seen God fulfill prophecy in my very on time?

The world is at war. Jehovah's witnesses made up of just about every nation on earth, won't fight in any war. If that is not promoting peace, what is?
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Jehovah sees all, and will expose it in his own due time, to benefit the whole of the group who choose to remain clean in service, and serve him. But even this man, if he repents will be welcomed back into the fold. He may already have been. Jehovah is not looking for perfection from imperfect people. He is however looking for genuine repentance due to him sending his only begotten, so that we can attain repentance, and ever lasting life.

So, a man that sexually molests innocent children will be given everlasting life, peace and happiness by god, as long as he repents and serves him.

But I, however, will be punished even though I have lived my entire life as a good, decent person and have never committed such acts of immorality. I have spent my entire life living closer to god's standards of practices than this person, yet I will be the one punished simply because I do not worship him.

I don't like your god. He's too narcissistic of a being for me to worship. In fact, my existence has lived up to a higher standard than your god has.
 
So, a man that sexually molests innocent children will be given everlasting life, peace and happiness by god, as long as he repents and serves him.

But I, however, will be punished even though I have lived my entire life as a good, decent person and have never committed such acts of immorality. I have spent my entire life living closer to god's standards of practices than this person, yet I will be the one punished simply because I do not worship him.

I don't like your god. He's too narcissistic of a being for me to worship. In fact, my existence has lived up to a higher standard than your god has.

How could God give you anything when you don't recognize his existence? The fact that you even think you can live up to higher standards than God's, who is the law giver, is the problem.

A man who repents from any sin, grossly immoral, or otherwise, sees the need to, based on falling sort of God's standard. He also recognizes God's authority, and loves him enough to choose to repent, since God does not make us.

Maybe you never molested children, but we've all been guilty of sin. Come down a notch and join the rest of us imperfect human beings for once.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
How could God give you anything when you don't recognize his existence? The fact that you even think you can live up to higher standards than God's, who is the law giver, is the problem.

A man who repents from any sin, grossly immoral, or otherwise, sees the need to, based on falling sort of God's standard. He also recognizes God's authority, and loves him enough to choose to repent, since God does not make us.

Maybe you never molested children, but we've all been guilty of sin. Come down a notch and join the rest of us imperfect human beings for once.

Just trying to prove a point. Your god, that you claim is perfect in every way, seems to hold some petty and quite revolting emotions and personality traits (jealousy, narcissism, megalomania, egomania, misogynistic, vindictive, malicious, etc). A human being possessing these same traits is typically a person that none of us want to be associated with.
 
Just trying to prove a point. Your god, that you claim is perfect in every way, seems to hold some petty and quite revolting emotions and personality traits (jealousy, narcissism, megalomania, egomania, misogynistic, vindictive, malicious, etc). A human being possessing these same traits is typically a person that none of us want to be associated with.


Yea, but the only point you prove is that you don't understand in the slightest bit, anything about Jehovah.

I doubt you would say these things about Jesus. And Jesus said everything he knows was taught to him by Jehovah. Who would say they would not wanna be associated with Jesus?
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Yea, but the only point you prove is that you don't understand in the slightest bit, anything about Jehovah.

I doubt you would say these things about Jesus. And Jesus said everything he knows was taught to him by Jehovah. Who would say they would not wanna be associated with Jesus?

That's your answer...I don't understand Jehovah? Or is it that you can't explain why your god has such petty emotions and personality traits? Why would a perfect being have so many negative qualities? It doesn't make sense. You would think a perfect, all-knowing being would not experience jealousy or narcissism and be vindictive too. If he knows everything and is all powerful there would be no reason for him to have these feelings. Who's he trying to impress here? Presumably himself. Another petty attribute.
 
That's your answer...I don't understand Jehovah? Or is it that you can't explain why your god has such petty emotions and personality traits? Why would a perfect being have so many negative qualities? It doesn't make sense. You would think a perfect, all-knowing being would not experience jealousy or narcissism and be vindictive too. If he knows everything and is all powerful there would be no reason for him to have these feelings. Who's he trying to impress here? Presumably himself. Another petty attribute.

I'll ask again. Would you have an issue being associated with Jesus Christ, if he were in your midst this very moment? Remember, the Bible says he the image, or exact representation of what God is. How he lived his life, is exactly how God lives. Moving on.

Yea, you don't understand him. First off, you make it appear as if he is defined by those attirbutes themselves, when really, this is just what you try and use to justify not serving him, while giving glory to the monkey's he made, as your forefathers.

Jehovah is jealous... For pure worship. He is a god exacting exclusive devotion, in the sense of not mixing with other Gods and trying to serve him as well. Same way your wife would be if you step out on her. You may call that petty, but really the petty one is the person who does not respect such an arrangement.

His plan for humans has always been for mankind to enjoy life, forever on earth, and make it a global paradise, in peace and prosperity. Something we all wish we could live in, yet Jehovah is vindictive because he will destroy those who don't serve him, and don't want these things to take place? Wicked people, and righteous people cannot coexist in peace. The thousands of years of mankind have proven such. So one set of people have to go. Now Jehovah would certainly be vindictive if he did not provide means for people to know the way out of the wreck we call an existence. But he does. Sadly, people are too busy with their own lives, or making excuses of why they won't serve him, rather than possibly enjoying the real life, apart from sin, sickness and death.

If you were God, and your plan was exactly how Jehovah's is, would you continue to let the righteous people who want to live how you intended continue to suffer alongside those who don't? Would you consider yourself vindictive to rid the earth of those in opposition of your plan, when you are the grand creator, and have provided a way out for even the wicked, yet they ignore it? Would you consider yourself vindictive?

Like I said, you just do not understand Jehovah. Call it how you see it though, as we both know you will.
 
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LJ4ptplay

Starter
But people can live in peace and happiness without having to worship him. A person can also not be wicked without worshipping him. I am not a wicked person.

If peace and happiness is ultimately what he wants, then why does he place his worship over our happiness? It seems, worshipping him is the most important thing to him, not us being righteous or happy.

At the moment I don't have any issues with Jesus. But if Jesus were to say "you must worship me or I will destroy you" then I would have issues with him.

Your wife analogy doesn't quite fit. I would not worship my wife, I will respect her, but if she were to ask me to do anything she asks or else she will destroy me, then I would divorce her. Those are traits of people I do not want to be associated with.
 
But people can live in peace and happiness without having to worship him. A person can also not be wicked without worshipping him. I am not a wicked person.
Really, they can? what part of the world you live in tells you this? Because the only group of people I know living in peace are his followers. Every other group, people in a belief system are at war, or will go to war. Again, when I speak, I speak of a group, not individuals.

The reason the world is so messed up is because God is not at the controls, contrary to what many people believe. So when you say people can live apart from him, you are siding with his enemy, and Jehovah has proven him wrong countless times. Which is why his punishment is death. If God were running the earth, war would not exist, poverty, disease, death, etc. The only reason these things exist, is because a certain angel felt how you feel, that man can live apart from him. And you're both wrong.



If peace and happiness is ultimately what he wants, then why does he place his worship over our happiness? It seems, worshipping him is the most important thing to him, not us being righteous or happy.
Well, if you are worshipping him, then you are happy, then you are righteous, because he designed us for the purpose of serving him, and living our lives in accordance with such. To you that sounds selfish, but to a person who respects the fact that if not for him, they would not exist, it's a loving respect that he has earned as our creator. factor in, that worshiping him, only benefits us, it's even more reason to serve him.

Everything that God asks of us in pure worship of him, is beneficial for us, not him. Not lying, stealing, cheating, fornicating, coveting, etc, only benefits humans! You knocking God for telling us what would only benefit us, is like knocking your mom and dad for saying look both ways before you cross the street :)



At the moment I don't have any issues with Jesus. But if Jesus were to say "you must worship me or I will destroy you" then I would have issues with him.
So basically, you wanna be able to live however you wish, with no regard the giver of your life, and want things to be ok? He should allow you to live, no matter what? Who's the selfish one here, you or Jehovah? I wonder if you would try that in your parents house growing up.. Rules everywhere bro. Get used to em.


Your wife analogy doesn't quite fit. I would not worship my wife, I will respect her, but if she were to ask me to do anything she asks or else she will destroy me, then I would divorce her. Those are traits of people I do not want to be associated with.

It actually does work. Clearly, you would not worship your wife, but clearly your wife would be jealous, and may leave you if you step out on her with another woman. Jehovah told Israel he would be jealous is they turned aside from him to worship false Gods. Since he did take them as a husband would take a wife, the analogy is sound in that aspect.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Really, they can? what part of the world you live in tells you this? Because the only group of people I know living in peace are his followers. Every other group, people in a belief system are at war, or will go to war. Again, when I speak, I speak of a group, not individuals.

Buddhist monks live in peace. There are countless hippie communes that live in peace. I and other people that live like me live in peace. And why must it be a group of people and not individuals living in peace? Can't each individual live a peaceful and happy life?

Everything that God asks of us in pure worship of him, is beneficial for us, not him. Not lying, stealing, cheating, fornicating, coveting, etc, only benefits humans! You knocking God for telling us what would only benefit us, is like knocking your mom and dad for saying look both ways before you cross the street :)

I guess we have differing definitions of "worship". I don't lie, steal, cheat, fornicate, covet, etc., and I don't worship any god. I treat people with respect and am genuinely a good person. And that is where I have problems with your god. Because I don't worship him, he will kill me. If my parents told me to look both ways before I cross the street or else they will kill me, then I would consider them bad parents.

It actually does work. Clearly, you would not worship your wife, but clearly your wife would be jealous, and may leave you if you step out on her with another woman. Jehovah told Israel he would be jealous is they turned aside from him to worship false Gods. Since he did take them as a husband would take a wife, the analogy is sound in that aspect.

Again, jealousy...it just seems like such a petty emotion for an all knowing, all seeing, all powerful being. And then to kill people over jealousy is really, really bad. If I cheated on my wife and she killed me over jealousy, she would go to prison for the rest of her life and in some states would be executed.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
The reason the world is so messed up is because God is not at the controls, contrary to what many people believe. So when you say people can live apart from him, you are siding with his enemy, and Jehovah has proven him wrong countless times. Which is why his punishment is death. If God were running the earth, war would not exist, poverty, disease, death, etc. The only reason these things exist, is because a certain angel felt how you feel, that man can live apart from him. And you're both wrong.

I forgot to respond to this one...Why doesn't god just destroy his enemy? He's all powerful. Since he wants us to live in peace and harmony and his enemy is the cause of us not living in peace and harmony, you would think he would just destroy his enemy. What's he waiting for? If I saw someone on the street getting beaten, I would help them immediately. I wouldn't say to myself "ahh...I'll help him out in a couple of days". I guess we must be part of some cosmic bet, or cruel joke.
 
I forgot to respond to this one...Why doesn't god just destroy his enemy? He's all powerful. Since he wants us to live in peace and harmony and his enemy is the cause of us not living in peace and harmony, you would think he would just destroy his enemy. What's he waiting for? If I saw someone on the street getting beaten, I would help them immediately. I wouldn't say to myself "ahh...I'll help him out in a couple of days". I guess we must be part of some cosmic bet, or cruel joke.

Well he plans to. And he is all powerful, even Satan knows that. However, Satan did not challenge God's power, he challenged God's right to rule over his subjects. By Satan telling Eve that God basically lied when he said she'd die if she ate from the tree, and that she'd become like God, there would be no need for Eve to submit to God any longer if she can become God herself. So therefore, her and Adam had to pay the price for sin against God. If they did not die, then God would have been a liar, and hence Satan would have been the truth teller. Adam and Eve dying actually showed who God is, since they could not sustain life on their own. Jehovah holds our very existence. For that alone, he should rightly be worshiped.

But Immediately after they sinned, God put a plan in motion to rectify the situation. Akin to your "helping the poor man getting beat down" analogy. The poor man in this situation are Adam's children who were unjustly sold into sin and death, to no fault of their own. Adam and Eve were perfect before sin, they sinned deliberately. We don't always do so. A vindictive God would not have made provisions for a way out for us, but a loving God would. The provisions being are his word, the Bible, and sending Jesus to set the finest example of how God wants us to live, and die for our sins. How many of us are sending our only begotten to die for others? Certainly not a vindictive God!

Now onto why he did not just simply destroy them. Well Isaiah 55:11 says " so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it."

In the garden, he gave word to Adam and Eve to procreate and fill the earth. If he would have simply destroyed them on the spot, then his word would have came back to him without results, since he told THEM TWO to procreate. So even destroying them, and starting over with two new parents would have meant him not holding up to his word. Also, Adam and Eve were not the only ones in play here. Billions of angels in heaven were watching what was going on. They heard the challenge issued by him as well. If God just simply destroys them, does he prove Satan wrong? No. All he proves is that he is more powerful than he is, but not that Satan was a liar, and that only He has the right to rule mankind. So Jehovah smartly allowed Satan time to prove if he was right. This way, once Jehovah is proven right, then this issue can never be raised, or if it is, then it will have already been proven true for his side, so there would never be a drawn out discussion ever again about who is the universal sovereign.

In the mean time, people are unfortunately getting sick, old and dying, amidst a mass amount of personal suffering and strife. But this too, had to happen, so that everyone can see how much better it is to live under God's rule, rather than Satans/mankind's. But Jehovah has the power to reverse things. He promises a new earth, where righteousness prevails under his rule, and along with that he will resurrect the righteous, AND UNRIGHTEOUS who have died due to Ademic sin, to live in this new earth. This way, people can see the difference personally between the life we live now, which sucks, vs the life he intended for us, which is dope.

Now, if that ain't coming to help the poor man getting a beat down.. I don't know what is...
 
Buddhist monks live in peace. There are countless hippie communes that live in peace. I and other people that live like me live in peace. And why must it be a group of people and not individuals living in peace? Can't each individual live a peaceful and happy life?
Did those Monks in Myanmar act peacefully, toward their government? living in peace involves more than getting along with your own group of people in peace. It's easy to get along peacefully with those who agree with you. And I'm not saying Monks are notorious peace breakers or anything, before you go there. Just referencing.

And again, I am referring to the whole of a group, because you singled out one Jehovah's witness as your example of the whole of the people. Which is not fair to the lot.



I guess we have differing definitions of "worship". I don't lie, steal, cheat, fornicate, covet, etc., and I don't worship any god. I treat people with respect and am genuinely a good person. And that is where I have problems with your god. Because I don't worship him, he will kill me. If my parents told me to look both ways before I cross the street or else they will kill me, then I would consider them bad parents.

If you are not worshiping Jehovah, you are knowingly, or unknowingly worshiping Satan. Satan is the main reason that all around you is terrible, save a few things. He does not care if you believe in evolution, if this life is really the Matrix, if cows fly, pigs talk, so long as you do not know God, and have a chance to live. Why? Because he has been proven a liar, and is on death row. And like any death row inmate in prison, he does not care to take anyone else out, because he has nothing to live for, cept a date with destiny. In fact, the more, the merrier to him. He is the one you should have problems with, Jehovah is trying to keep you from receiving the same fate.

Basically, from what I can tell, you wanna be able to live however you wish, with no accountability. That is the same attitude that Adam and Eve had, which is in turn why they ate from the tree... The allure of "being like God" or, God apart from Jehovah. Now as you said, it does not mean that you will choose to live wickedly. But if you wanted to, it should be fine for you to. If you could sustain your own life, then you would have a valid argument. But we humans are dust. You don't have any idea if you will even wake up in the morning. You yourself veer into the vast universe and call yourself insignificant. So how could wanting to have no accountability to the person who allowed you to live, just be OK?




Again, jealousy...it just seems like such a petty emotion for an all knowing, all seeing, all powerful being. And then to kill people over jealousy is really, really bad. If I cheated on my wife and she killed me over jealousy, she would go to prison for the rest of her life and in some states would be executed.

Again, you want to live and let live, without accountability. Sorry, that is not even how things work in this cruel world, lacking justice. If that's the case, why have any law? Live and let live should be the mantra.

Again, Jehovah saying that he was a jealous God was concerning those who had entered into a committed arrangement with him. They had fully come to know him as the only true God, and one of their laws was not to engage false worship. They knew the consequences before they took action, and did it anyways. It would be as if your wife told you she is a jealous wife, and will certainly divorce you if you cheat on her.

What you're saying is, so what they knew the consequences, let's live and let live. Leave em be Jehovah. You want zero accountability, and sorry, it just does not work that way.
 

TunerAddict

Starter
If you are not worshiping Jehovah, you are knowingly, or unknowingly worshiping Satan.


I'm sorry but that is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard.

And in retrospect, wouldn't the creation of Satan after god be inconceivable?

Look at it this way. God is created. He is "all good." Thus, by something being "good", the opposite is automatically created. Because now since something is "good," there can be something not "good," something that doesn't fit that definition. Thus evil. What the bible is saying is that for a time, there was no evil? But if there isn't evil, how can there be good? There cannot be. There has to be both sides. If there is no evil, there is no good. Its just how things are. There aren't good ppl, bad ppl, ok ppl, etc...There are just ppl because there are no ways of sifting through them in this way. There isn't a term to describe them, there isn't somthing to explain what they are.

Which is where this question inevitably ends. Is the "goodness" of god only created upon the creation of the devil? Was he nothing before his rival was created?
 
I'm sorry but that is the biggest crock of shit I've ever heard.
That's exactly what Satan wants you to believe, unfortunately.

And in retrospect, wouldn't the creation of Satan after god be inconceivable?
Jehovah has no creator. His is the creator. Before him was no God formed. Somehow, he has always just.. existed.

Look at it this way. God is created. He is "all good." Thus, by something being "good", the opposite is automatically created. Because now since something is "good," there can be something not "good," something that doesn't fit that definition. Thus evil. What the bible is saying is that for a time, there was no evil? But if there isn't evil, how can there be good? There cannot be. There has to be both sides. If there is no evil, there is no good. Its just how things are. There aren't good ppl, bad ppl, ok ppl, etc...There are just ppl because there are no ways of sifting through them in this way. There isn't a term to describe them, there isn't somthing to explain what they are.

Which is where this question inevitably ends. Is the "goodness" of god only created upon the creation of the devil? Was he nothing before his rival was created?

What is so hard to fathom about there just being intelligent creatures, that just do good, according to what God deems good? Bible says when God made the earth, all the morning stars sang, and all the sons of God applauded. All would include Satan, since only angels are referred to as sons of god. Therefore, clearly, there was a time when even Satan was good. But Jehovah did not make him a robot. He was free to change his mind about being good whenever he felt, if he felt.


Clearly God was good before there was evil, if all his sons applaud his work, and join in and sing and praise him.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Well he plans to. And he is all powerful, even Satan knows that. However, Satan did not challenge God's power, he challenged God's right to rule over his subjects. By Satan telling Eve that God basically lied when he said she'd die if she ate from the tree, and that she'd become like God, there would be no need for Eve to submit to God any longer if she can become God herself. So therefore, her and Adam had to pay the price for sin against God. If they did not die, then God would have been a liar, and hence Satan would have been the truth teller. Adam and Eve dying actually showed who God is, since they could not sustain life on their own. Jehovah holds our very existence. For that alone, he should rightly be worshiped.

But Immediately after they sinned, God put a plan in motion to rectify the situation. Akin to your "helping the poor man getting beat down" analogy. The poor man in this situation are Adam's children who were unjustly sold into sin and death, to no fault of their own. Adam and Eve were perfect before sin, they sinned deliberately. We don't always do so. A vindictive God would not have made provisions for a way out for us, but a loving God would. The provisions being are his word, the Bible, and sending Jesus to set the finest example of how God wants us to live, and die for our sins. How many of us are sending our only begotten to die for others? Certainly not a vindictive God!

Now onto why he did not just simply destroy them. Well Isaiah 55:11 says " so my word that goes forth from my mouth will prove to be. It will not return to me without results, but it will certainly do that in which I have delighted, and it will have certain success in that for which I have sent it."

In the garden, he gave word to Adam and Eve to procreate and fill the earth. If he would have simply destroyed them on the spot, then his word would have came back to him without results, since he told THEM TWO to procreate. So even destroying them, and starting over with two new parents would have meant him not holding up to his word. Also, Adam and Eve were not the only ones in play here. Billions of angels in heaven were watching what was going on. They heard the challenge issued by him as well. If God just simply destroys them, does he prove Satan wrong? No. All he proves is that he is more powerful than he is, but not that Satan was a liar, and that only He has the right to rule mankind. So Jehovah smartly allowed Satan time to prove if he was right. This way, once Jehovah is proven right, then this issue can never be raised, or if it is, then it will have already been proven true for his side, so there would never be a drawn out discussion ever again about who is the universal sovereign.

In the mean time, people are unfortunately getting sick, old and dying, amidst a mass amount of personal suffering and strife. But this too, had to happen, so that everyone can see how much better it is to live under God's rule, rather than Satans/mankind's. But Jehovah has the power to reverse things. He promises a new earth, where righteousness prevails under his rule, and along with that he will resurrect the righteous, AND UNRIGHTEOUS who have died due to Ademic sin, to live in this new earth. This way, people can see the difference personally between the life we live now, which sucks, vs the life he intended for us, which is dope.

Now, if that ain't coming to help the poor man getting a beat down.. I don't know what is...

Like I said, we are part of some cosmic bet. What's the point of living if we are just a bet? You don't bet with people you love, like you claim he does. And yes he is vindictive, and contradictive as well. On one hand he loves us and on the other hand we're just part of some bet. Meanwhile billions of people suffer while he waits for the results. In my example of someone getting beaten, it would be like me betting on the little guy while his poor life is about to be beaten out of him. I don't help him, I just make a bet with my friends. Your God is an awful, awful being.

Well, anyway, I'm sorry Knicks4lyfe, but you are so wrong. These things will never happen. I am positive of this. I am so convinced they will never happen I am willing to make a bet with you. I will give you everything I have if I am wrong. Are you willing to do the same? So, when you are old and on your deathbed (and I mean that, I hope you live a long and fruitful life) and will eventually die of natural causes, and still God has not come down to save his children, will you give me everything you have?

I already know your answer. You will say God has chosen to come after your death (because trust me, it isn't going to happen in your lifetime, I guarantee it). Which is how religion keeps on going. The devil will never be destroyed because he does not exist. Because God does not exist. It's the classic comic book story. There has to be a villain. If there is no villain, then there can't be a story. All I ask is for you to remember this when you are dieing. Maybe then you will see the err of your ways.

I think it's sad that you think I am worshipping satan and that I am evil. I have probably done more good on this earth than you have. I just simply don't believe God exists. But regardless of how much good I do on this earth it doesn't matter at all. The most important thing is that I worship him. What an egomaniac and narcissist. I could cure all of the diseases in the world but as long as I don't worship your God I am more evil than the child molesters I gave as an example (which by the way, I wasn't lumping all Jehovah's Witnesses into that group. You lumped all Jehovah's Witnesses as God's children. I just wanted to give a contradictory example). In your world, Jeffrey Dahmer is rewarded with peace and happiness, yet Gandhi is punished simply because he didn't worship your God. And to me, I cannot accept that. If I met your God as a person, I would walk away from him because he has all of the negative personality traits of a really, really bad person.
 
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