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Thread: Hamass and Israel go to War

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Breaking News Hamass and Israel go to War

    Israel ground troops and tanks have officially entered Gaza and Hamass spokesmen have reported, and I even saw on a tape, that they will stay and fight until their death and will not leave for anyone.

    Israel has reported already to have 10,000 total troops in Gaza which holds 1.5 million people and is expected to be a bigger warzone as the days go on.

    Hamass and Israel are playing the blame game on who actually started this but we know that Hamass has rockets that they have been using to hit Southern Israel and Israel has reacted in a serious way. Israel wants to go deep in Gaza and find the source of all of their recent attacks by destroying every rocket in the area and every military stronghold that Hamass holds.

    Civillian casualties will be very high due to the fact that Hamass plants their rockets in civillian sectors such as masques and refugee camps so that if Israel bombs those areas, they will be blamed for targeting civillians.

    Israel has recently bombed the home of one of Hamass' former high ranking senior leaders, Nizar Rayyan, who urged suicidal attacks on Israel since 2004.

    Right after this attack, Israel deployed an all out offensive into Gaza with air strikes that are still occuring and the deployment of 10,000 troops and many tanks.

    Let's see how it breaks down.

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    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    this has got to stop, Israel is going way too far imo

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    Member SpursFan4Life's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DaTPRiNCE
    this has got to stop, Israel is going way too far imo
    What should they do? Ask them nicely to stop lobbing rockets at Israelis? Peace isn't gonna happen with the current leadership on both sides. It's an unending war.

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    Veteran JayJ44's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DaTPRiNCE
    this has got to stop, Israel is going way too far imo


    Hamas didn't start this. There was an Israeli siege against Gaza, which caused a humanitarian crisis (starving the people, etc). And they aren't hiding among civilians, they're in a densely populated city. It's impossible to target one small group of people among a large population and not hurt civilans. They are the democratically elected government, who are part of the government, and provide social services for the people of Gaza.

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    Member SpursFan4Life's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JayJ44


    Hamas didn't start this. There was an Israeli siege against Gaza, which caused a humanitarian crisis (starving the people, etc). And they aren't hiding among civilians, they're in a densely populated city. It's impossible to target one small group of people among a large population and not hurt civilans. They are the democratically elected government, who are part of the government, and provide social services for the people of Gaza.
    That's incorrect. The military wing of Hamas has been firing rockets into Israel for a while now.

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    Veteran TunerAddict's Avatar
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    Which side do you choose? The one with hundreds of dead, and thousand of wounded, or the side with 4 dead and about 50 wounded?

    I back Palestine, always have, always will. I hang their flag in my room in my respect for them.

    Will this ever end? Really can't see it happening. Both sides leaders refuse to let peace be a real option....


    Did you know that 80% of Palestinian children fail in school? Palestinian schools have an 80% failure rate.

    I could list off all the injustice done to the Palestinian people all day, but it wouldn't matter. Too many people are brainwashed into thinking what the US Media has been feeding them their entire lives. Israel = good, Arabs= bad

    Israel is one of the most evil countries ever in existence. IT rivals Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia, maybe not on the same scale numberwise, but in their deeds, it certainly is close.

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    Veteran JayJ44's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by SpursFan4Life
    That's incorrect. The military wing of Hamas has been firing rockets into Israel for a while now.
    First off, these rockets are like firecrackers. They are nothing. This is propaganda.

    Second, these "rockets" only started being fired after Israel broke the truce repeatedly, killing Palestinians, and created a humanitarian crisis with the siege. First Israeli murder and siege, THEN rockets. In that order.

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    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    Leave it to Paul, an evangelical Christian, who has said that he supports Israel for the simple fact that "prophecy" designates Israelis as having some sort of role in the second coming of Christ, to repeat, verbatim, the brainwash language used by the mainstream media to describe this conflict. Apparently, all this stuff that's taking place has some sort of meaning to the evangs.

    Whatever the case may be, I could care less about any of these people. If they want to kill one another, wave flags and launch firecrackers, then neither side has the moral authority to say, "I am right."

    The fact is that Palestinians can no longer depend on military support from other Arabs or Muslims, because Israel has repeatedly defeated any such support, with the support of their powerful American allies. As such, the smart thing for Palestine's government to do would be, at least for the sake of the little children, who so often end up maimed or killed by Israeli aggression, to not give Israel an excuse to attack.

    Sure, the rockets are like firecrackers, I don't even know that they've killed anyone, but Israel will use those "attacks" as an excuse to invade and kill. They might even have a right to do so, because it's really not acceptable to have rockets landing in residential neighborhoods. If Palestine's government cannot see this, it's just plain incompetence, on their part.

    As such, Palestinians need to petition their government to cooperate, now, instead of using aggressive language, when the spotlight is on them and can be used to highlight the economic and social needs of the Palestinian people, as well as the need for an independent, free Palestine. This would energize the world to support moves to improve conditions, and cultivate independence and freedom, in Palestine.

    For Palestine, this is the only path to success: learn from Gandhi's example and force the world to acknowledge Israel as an aggressor.






    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Jan 04, 2009 at 09:30.

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    The King Akamu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DaTPRiNCE
    this has got to stop, Israel is going way too far imo
    It's not only your opinion, it's a 1,000%+ FACT:

    The U.S. (our loving, controlle"d" government) and IsUNrealhave been trying to formulate a pretext for world war 3.

    These mindless people in power have been trying to instigate more wars in different ways, and they could care less about what any of you think and if you don't believe that you need to gtfo and stfu cause your clueless.

    You keep pushing around the dog in the corner and eventually it's going to attack, it has teeth and it wants to live. Same thing happened with The Russia / Georgia indecent, both the US and Israel instigating conflict with Russia and look at how they responded. (which was expected, but I'm pretty sure they wanted a different picture)


    How World War 3 Started -Part1


    How World War 3 Started -Part2



    I wonder why a couple of billionaires would just get up and move away all of a sudden from Israel, their not stupid they know what's going down.


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    TOP 5 Lies About Israel's Assault On Gaza:


    Lie #1) Israel is only targeting legitimate military sites and is seeking to protect innocent lives. Israel never targets civilians.

    The Gaza Strip is one of the most densely populated pieces of property in the world. The presence of militants within a civilian population does not, under international law, deprive that population of their protected status, and hence any assault upon that population under the guise of targeting militants is, in fact, a war crime.



    Moreover, the people Israel claims are legitimate targets are members of Hamas, which Israel says is a terrorist organization. Hamas has been responsible for firing rockets into Israel. These rockets are extremely inaccurate and thus, even if Hamas intended to hit military targets within Israel, are indiscriminate by nature. When rockets from Gaza kill Israeli civilians, it is a war crime.

    Hamas has a military wing. However, it is not entirely a military organization, but a political one. Members of Hamas are the democratically elected representatives of the Palestinian people. Dozens of these elected leaders have been kidnapped and held in Israeli prisons without charge. Others have been targeted for assassination, such as Nizar Rayan, a top Hamas official. To kill Rayan, Israel targeted a residential apartment building. The strike not only killed Rayan but two of his wives and four of his children, along with six others. There is no justification for such an attack under international law. This was a war crime.


    Other of Israel’s bombardment with protected status under international law have included a mosque, a prison, police stations, and a university, in addition to residential buildings.


    Moreover, Israel has long held Gaza under siege, allowing only the most minimal amounts of humanitarian supplies to enter. Israel is bombing and killing Palestinian civilians. Countless more have been wounded, and cannot receive medical attention. Hospitals running on generators have little or no fuel. Doctors have no proper equipment or medical supplies to treat the injured. These people, too, are the victims of Israeli policies targeted not at Hamas or legitimate military targets, but directly designed to punish the civilian population.


    Lie #2) Hamas violated the cease-fire. The Israeli bombardment is a response to Palestinian rocket fire and is designed to end such rocket attacks.

    Israel never observed the cease-fire to begin with. From the beginning, it announced a “special security zone” within the Gaza Strip and announced that Palestinians who enter this zone will be fired upon. In other words, Israel announced its intention that Israeli soldiers would shoot at farmers and other individuals attempting to reach their own land in direct violation of not only the cease-fire but international law.



    Despite shooting incidents, including ones resulting in Palestinians getting injured, Hamas still held to the cease-fire from the time it went into effect on June 19 until Israel effectively ended the truce on November 4 by launching an airstrike into Gaza that killed five and injured several others.
    Israel’s violation of the cease-fire predictably resulted in retaliation from militants in Gaza who fired rockets into Israel in response. The increased barrage of rocket fire at the end of December is being used as justification for the continued Israeli bombardment, but is a direct response by militants to the Israeli attacks.


    Israel’s actions, including its violation of the cease-fire, predictably resulted in an escalation of rocket attacks against its own population.


    Lie #3) Hamas is using human shields, a war crime.

    There has been no evidence that Hamas has used human shields. The fact is, as previously noted, Gaza is a small piece of property that is densely populated. Israel engages in indiscriminate warfare such as the assassination of Nizar Rayan, in which members of his family were also murdered. It is victims like his dead children that Israel defines as “human shields” in its propaganda. There is no legitimacy for this interpretation under international law. In circumstances such as these, Hamas is not using human shields, Israel is committing war crimes in violation of the Geneva Conventions and other applicable international law.


    Lie #4) Arab nations have not condemned Israel’s actions because they understand Israel’s justification for its assault.

    The populations of those Arab countries are outraged at Israel’s actions and at their own governments for not condemning Israel’s assault and acting to end the violence. Simply stated, the Arab governments do not represent their respective Arab populations. The populations of the Arab nations have staged mass protests in opposition to not only Israel’s actions but also the inaction of their own governments and what they view as either complacency or complicity in Israel’s crimes.



    Moreover, the refusal of Arab nations to take action to come to the aid of the Palestinians is not because they agree with Israel’s actions, but because they are submissive to the will of the US, which fully supports Israel. Egypt, for instance, which refused to open the border to allow Palestinians wounded in the attacks to get medical treatment in Egyptian hospitals, is heavily dependent upon US aid, and is being widely criticized within the population of the Arab countries for what is viewed as an absolute betrayal of the Gaza Palestinians.


    Even Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas has been regarded as a traitor to his own people for blaming Hamas for the suffering of the people of Gaza. Palestinians are also well aware of Abbas’ past perceived betrayals in conniving with Israel and the US to sideline the democratically elected Hamas government, culminating in a counter-coup by Hamas in which it expelled Fatah (the military wing of Abbas’ Palestine Authority) from the Gaza Strip. While his apparent goal was to weaken Hamas and strengthen his own position, the Palestinians and other Arabs in the Middle East are so outraged at Abbas that it is unlikely he will be able to govern effectively.


    Lie #5) Israel is not responsible for civilian deaths because it warned the Palestinians of Gaza to flee areas that might be targeted.

    Israel claims it sent radio and telephone text messages to residents of Gaza warning them to flee from the coming bombardment. But the people of Gaza have nowhere to flee to. They are trapped within the Gaza Strip. It is by Israeli design that they cannot escape across the border. It is by Israeli design that they have no food, water, or fuel by which to survive. It is by Israeli design that hospitals in Gaza have no electricity and few medical supplies with which to treat the injured and save lives. And Israel has bombed vast areas of Gaza, targeting civilian infrastructure and other sites with protected status under international law. No place is safe within the Gaza Strip.


    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Foreign Policy Journal
    January 3, 2009
    Israel broke the truce:

    Last edited by Akamu; Jan 04, 2009 at 11:12.

  10. #10
    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Akamu
    It's not only your opinion, it's a 1,000%+ FACT:

    The U.S. (our loving, controlle"d" government) and IsUNrealhave been trying to formulate a pretext for world war 3.

    These mindless people in power have been trying to instigate more wars in different ways, and they could care less about what any of you think and if you don't believe that you need to gtfo and stfu cause your clueless.

    You keep pushing around the dog in the corner and eventually it's going to attack, it has teeth and it wants to live. Same thing happened with The Russia / Georgia indecent, both the US and Israel instigating conflict with Russia and look at how they responded. (which was expected, but I'm pretty sure they wanted a different picture)


    How World War 3 Started -Part1


    How World War 3 Started -Part2



    I wonder why a couple of billionaires would just get up and move away all of a sudden from Israel, their not stupid they know what's going down.


    ########################
    ############# #
    ############ #
    ########### #
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    ############# #
    ########################

    Israel broke the truce:

    i agree 1,000,000,000%....another very intelligent post akamu.... america jumping in isnt helping; and isreal took everyting way to far ok the rockets that plaestine launches doesnt do anything wounding ppl at best, maybe 2 die, but to launch rockets on civilans killing 400+ is inhuman anyway you look at it

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    I actually understand and kind of support Palestine. There is a major humanitarian crisis in Gaza. It seems like people trying to give aid to Gaza are demonized by the media. Both sides are kind of at fault but I pray that this humanitarian crisis will only get better.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Default OG is going over board

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Leave it to Paul, an evangelical Christian, who has said that he supports Israel for the simple fact that "prophecy" designates Israelis as having some sort of role in the second coming of Christ, to repeat, verbatim, the brainwash language used by the mainstream media to describe this conflict. Apparently, all this stuff that's taking place has some sort of meaning to the evangs.

    Whatever the case may be, I could care less about any of these people. If they want to kill one another, wave flags and launch firecrackers, then neither side has the moral authority to say, "I am right."

    The fact is that Palestinians can no longer depend on military support from other Arabs or Muslims, because Israel has repeatedly defeated any such support, with the support of their powerful American allies. As such, the smart thing for Palestine's government to do would be, at least for the sake of the little children, who so often end up maimed or killed by Israeli aggression, to not give Israel an excuse to attack.

    Sure, the rockets are like firecrackers, I don't even know that they've killed anyone, but Israel will use those "attacks" as an excuse to invade and kill. They might even have a right to do so, because it's really not acceptable to have rockets landing in residential neighborhoods. If Palestine's government cannot see this, it's just plain incompetence, on their part.

    As such, Palestinians need to petition their government to cooperate, now, instead of using aggressive language, when the spotlight is on them and can be used to highlight the economic and social needs of the Palestinian people, as well as the need for an independent, free Palestine. This would energize the world to support moves to improve conditions, and cultivate independence and freedom, in Palestine.

    For Palestine, this is the only path to success: learn from Gandhi's example and force the world to acknowledge Israel as an aggressor.






    Well OG your right about one thing, the Bible does say that Israel will be involved in the end times and will be the focal point because the entire end times of the Bible, circles around Jerusalem and Israel as a whole. SO if you want to switch the subject on that I'd be happy to my friend.



    Back on topic...
    Nothing I said is false. Hamass and Israel have been launching rockets at each other for some time. Hezbollah might get involved in this and be on the side of Hamass and maybe Iran, who supplies the rockets to Hamass and Hezbollah(FACT), might get involved if this war gets too crazy.

    I don't know who started this but the FACT is that Hamass has launched rockets in Israel killing many and putting them in constant fear. And to not sound biased, Israel has killed many people on the other side which is why Hamass is going to fight to the death as one Hamass spokesman said in a video I watched on CNN.

    Hamass has planted their rockets in civilian sectors such as masques and literally in the middle of refugee camps. (This was said by Ben Wedeman on CNN)^. IF ISRAEL ATTACKS, then propagnada once again goes aginst Israel and they get blamed for killing innocent civillians. This is one huge reason why the public should look down on Hamass.

    But thats my opinion based on countless reports by news officials and military officials.

    When Israel fought Hezbollah in 2006 it was close to the same scenerio. Each country kept launching missiles and eventually Israel got fed up and entered their territory and were planning on taking it over, untill world leaders and the UN stepped in to stop it.

    Hezbollah, just like Hamass, planted rockets in civillian sectors so that an attack from the enemy would result in massive amounts of innocent lives. This puts a negative view on Israel, regardless of what Hamass has done to Israel. This is propaganda that has been the reason for Hamass and Hezbollah's large numbers. They spread it and people get "brainwashed" into doing crazy unimaginable things like blowing themselves up for Allah, be heading people, etc like I mentioned. THAT SHOWS YOU WHY ISRAEL HAS KILLED INNOCENT CIVILIANS OG, BECAUSE HAMASS PLANTS THEIR ROCKETS IN CIVILIAN SECTORS....THAT MEANS THAT HAMASS IS ACTUALLY KILLING ITS OWN PEOPLE. THEY ARE SACRIFICING LIVES FOR POLITICAL PROPAGANDA.

    And many people from both sides have been killed from the air strikes and rockets, since you said you really didnt know if anyone died from them.


    If anything OG, for someone who has had countless arguments with me on human rights and the importance of human life, to actually sound like your on Hamass' side is a double standard. Hamass and Hezbollah, TERRORIST organizations support the most evil things ever seen by man and they are 100% inhumane and radical to the point were THIS has to be stopped.

    Let me repeat what you said that I bolded to prove that you just argue for the sake or arguing and have a double standard > OG: "I could care less about any of these people"

    If you don;t care about any of these people then why were you so caring for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan being killed everyday from war?

    You could care less, thats the answer.

    Case closed.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    If anything OG, for someone who has had countless arguments with me on human rights and the importance of human life, to actually sound like your on Hamass' side is a double standard. Hamass and Hezbollah, TERRORIST organizations support the most evil things ever seen by man and they are 100% inhumane and radical to the point were THIS has to be stopped.

    Let me repeat what you said that I bolded to prove that you just argue for the sake or arguing and have a double standard > OG: "I could care less about any of these people"

    If you don;t care about any of these people then why were you so caring for the people of Iraq and Afghanistan being killed everyday from war?

    You could care less, thats the answer.

    Case closed.
    Explain. Just saying they are evil doesn't mean ****. One man's terrorists are another man's freedom fighters.

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    Member SpursFan4Life's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JayJ44
    First off, these rockets are like firecrackers. They are nothing. This is propaganda.

    Second, these "rockets" only started being fired after Israel broke the truce repeatedly, killing Palestinians, and created a humanitarian crisis with the siege. First Israeli murder and siege, THEN rockets. In that order.
    If it's propaganda where do you get your information? The Hamas Daily Reader?

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    One day, we're gonna look around astonished, when religion is killed all over the world. the signs are right in front of us. The world leaders are getting fed up with religion. It is responsible, in some way, for all of these wars. It is just going to get worse, and worse. Killing religion will be their last ditch effort at world peace. They have no other options.

    It is going to be a sad day for world when religion is gone.

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