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Thread: Hamass and Israel go to War

  1. #31
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    Originally Posted by JayJ44
    How is it irrelevant? You were questioning the validity of me saying that the "rockets" are like firecrackers. There's a complete lack of proportionality in force available and in force used. Considering what Israel has done to Gaza, these "rockets" are nothing. And I can understand why they feel the need to take some sort of action against Israel since their people are under siege, and no one does anything about it, because Israel operates above the law. But obviously you believe any propaganda you are told by mainstream media, so what is the point of my trying to enlighten you?
    It's irrelevant because you can't attack someone and then say, "Oh well what we were using wasn't as harmful as what you are using/going to use." That's idiotic. I take it your Uncle is a Palestinian. Are you sure you're not the one believing propaganda? I don't listen to what the mainstream media says. Like I said, I know many people who live over there.

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    Originally Posted by JayJ44
    How is it irrelevant? You were questioning the validity of me saying that the "rockets" are like firecrackers. There's a complete lack of proportionality in force available and in force used. Considering what Israel has done to Gaza, these "rockets" are nothing. And I can understand why they feel the need to take some sort of action against Israel since their people are under siege, and no one does anything about it, because Israel operates above the law. But obviously you believe any propaganda you are told by mainstream media, so what is the point of my trying to enlighten you?
    nice reply JayJ, its been reported on every news cast that the so-called rockets havent done anything, and compared to the hundreds of Palestinians that have been murdered the 4 isralies(maybe) that have been killed isn't nearly as much......dont see why israel is pissed off that palestine retaliated to israels first bombing,

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    Originally Posted by DaTPRiNCE
    nice reply JayJ, its been reported on every news cast that the so-called rockets havent done anything, and compared to the hundreds of Palestinians that have been murdered the 4 isralies(maybe) that have been killed isn't nearly as much......dont see why israel is pissed off that palestine retaliated to israels first bombing,
    "so-called"? They're rockets. They fire hundreds and any Israeli family within range has to fear for their lives when they hear air-raid sirens.

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    Originally Posted by SpursFan4Life
    It's irrelevant because you can't attack someone and then say, "Oh well what we were using wasn't as harmful as what you are using/going to use." That's idiotic. I take it your Uncle is a Palestinian. Are you sure you're not the one believing propaganda? I don't listen to what the mainstream media says. Like I said, I know many people who live over there.
    First of all, you're actually wrong. If I smack you across the face and you shoot me--or, more accurate to this situation, if you break into my house, steal all of my things, then I smack you and you shoot me, I think you'd be considered psychotic and put away for a long time. You know, like the Israeli government should be.

    Second, did you not read the part about how Israel started this, by attacking Hamas/Gaza first? Maybe you need to go back and read that again until you remember it.

    Third, those "many people" you know there are irrelevant. I don't know your "many people" and, odds are, they are lying to you if you still believe this stuff. Yes, my uncle is Palestinian, and Palestinians don't need propaganda like the zionists. They have truth.

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    Originally Posted by JayJ44
    First of all, you're actually wrong. If I smack you across the face and you shoot me--or, more accurate to this situation, if you break into my house, steal all of my things, then I smack you and you shoot me, I think you'd be considered psychotic and put away for a long time. You know, like the Israeli government should be.
    That's quite a terrible analogy. People have been killed on the Israeli side. I guess their lives aren't important. You're right.

    Second, did you not read the part about how Israel started this, by attacking Hamas/Gaza first? Maybe you need to go back and read that again until you remember it.
    You wanna go back through history and look at who started what? Maybe if the military wing of Hamas didn't continue to manufacture and distribute weapons, Israel wouldn't have felt the need to do something about it.

    Third, those "many people" you know there are irrelevant. I don't know your "many people" and, odds are, they are lying to you if you still believe this stuff. Yes, my uncle is Palestinian, and Palestinians don't need propaganda like the zionists. They have truth.
    Ah gotcha, your one Uncle, who is clearly unbiased, is more concrete of a source than anyone I know there. Odds are we're both being lied to. You're just too stupid to realize it.

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    Originally Posted by SpursFan4Life
    That's quite a terrible analogy. People have been killed on the Israeli side. I guess their lives aren't important. You're right.

    You wanna go back through history and look at who started what? Maybe if the military wing of Hamas didn't continue to manufacture and distribute weapons, Israel wouldn't have felt the need to do something about it.

    Ah gotcha, your one Uncle, who is clearly unbiased, is more concrete of a source than anyone I know there. Odds are we're both being lied to. You're just too stupid to realize it.
    This is getting ridiculous already. Ok...
    Why is that a bad analogy? You can't just say something is a bad analogy without saying why. People are being killed. Yes, yes they are. Mostly in Gaza. It appears that THOSE lives don't matter, at least not to you and people who think this way.
    This is a bit of an aside, but Ron Kuby said something very interesting earlier today. If Hamas had taken over a big apartment building in Tel Aviv, would they bomb it, kill everyone in it (including those Israeli civilians living in it) and call them "collateral damage"? I'm sure they would not. So if the value of anyone's lives are being trivialized, it is those of the Palestinian people, so don't you dare try to make it otherwise.

    If you want to go back through history I do not think you would like what you find. Zionism is responsible for hundreds of thousands of murders, including those of holocaust survivors, whose boats were bombed because they were being sent not to Palestine, but some other country. Zionists will kill ANYONE who stands in their way. Who started what? Zionism started a war on civilian Arabs.

    And manufacturing and distributing weapons? Are you kidding? Israel uses weapons they got from America to kill children.

    I'm glad you know that you're being lied to. I know that I am not. There is nothing for him to lie about; the facts are there. You, however, are not intelligent enough to understand the difference between fact and fiction. I hope that one day you learn, for your sake. It is not good to go through life with the wool pulled down around your eyes.

    I see there is no point talking to you about this, so answer whatever ridiculous thing you want. Like I said, I hope one day you learn.

  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by JayJ44
    This is getting ridiculous already. Ok...
    Why is that a bad analogy? You can't just say something is a bad analogy without saying why. People are being killed. Yes, yes they are. Mostly in Gaza. It appears that THOSE lives don't matter, at least not to you and people who think this way.
    This is a bit of an aside, but Ron Kuby said something very interesting earlier today. If Hamas had taken over a big apartment building in Tel Aviv, would they bomb it, kill everyone in it (including those Israeli civilians living in it) and call them "collateral damage"? I'm sure they would not. So if the value of anyone's lives are being trivialized, it is those of the Palestinian people, so don't you dare try to make it otherwise.

    If you want to go back through history I do not think you would like what you find. Zionism is responsible for hundreds of thousands of murders, including those of holocaust survivors, whose boats were bombed because they were being sent not to Palestine, but some other country. Zionists will kill ANYONE who stands in their way. Who started what? Zionism started a war on civilian Arabs.

    And manufacturing and distributing weapons? Are you kidding? Israel uses weapons they got from America to kill children.

    I'm glad you know that you're being lied to. I know that I am not. There is nothing for him to lie about; the facts are there. You, however, are not intelligent enough to understand the difference between fact and fiction. I hope that one day you learn, for your sake. It is not good to go through life with the wool pulled down around your eyes.

    I see there is no point talking to you about this, so answer whatever ridiculous thing you want. Like I said, I hope one day you learn.
    hahaha this is like one big pile of awesome. It's got everything. Irrelevant information? Check. Irony? Check. Arrogance? Check. Strawman argument? Check. Naivety? Check. Stupid Analogy (another one)? Check. False sense of self-righteousness? Check.
    Last edited by SpursFan4Life; Jan 05, 2009 at 21:16. Reason: forgot one thing

  8. #38
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    Can't shoot down his arguments so you make that post?

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Explain. Just saying they are evil doesn't mean ****. One man's terrorists are another man's freedom fighters.
    In OG's first post on this thread he mentioned how israel is the evil of this world etc. (Like I haven't heard that from him before).

    I'll elaborate by saying that if there is anyone evil in this world, and especially during this conflict, then it's the videos I see of Hamass burning Israeli flags while kids that haven't hit age 10 yet are holding ak47's saying Allah Akbar. And saying to kill the Jews and kill every last one of them without even knowing the other side. This is pure evil. And if people don;t see that then they either have seen everything and don';t even care or they have their rear so far up their you know what, that they have no clue what is going on.

    You know that in the world of Radical Islam that are Extremist, that they actually teach kids in elementary schools to hate Jews and that they are Evil right from the start. I once watched this video of a guy say that when he was in school that their National Anthem was a song about killing the Jews. I'd be happy to hear anyone say that is not brainwashing for political propganda. If the word "brainwashing" is ever used, then it should defintly be used when talking about Hamass and Hezbollah. That's why they have had such large numbers and such strong morale to do anything necessary to wipe Israel off the map. They start spreading hateful propaganda to their area starting with the kids so they can breed a whole generation of "freedom fighters." As you explained.

    The freedom fighters are people that have not grown up in a society were they have been perecuted by the Jews, CHristians, etc. These people have grown up in societies were Radical Islam was their foundation of everything to the point were suicide bombings, and every attack they initiated was for the reason of doing it for Allah or for Hamass/Hezbollah which uses Allah as an excuse for their actions.

    Anything they do is for Allah whether it says that in the Koran or not. And many experts on Islam will tell you that Radical Extremist don't follow the Koran 100% and distort much of it. Were other people such as Hal Lindsey who is an Evangelical Christian scholar, who I follow because he's brilliant, have been studying the Koran for over 30 years and have discovered a hateful and violent agenda towards Jews and Christians everywhere coming from the Koran.

    These people have been brainwashed threw certain passages of the Koran, distorted teachings of the Koran, and especially threw a society of Radical Extreme Islams that base their actions on hating the Jews and Christians to the point of wiping them out for world domination and conversion to Islam.

    I gave you a lot of information to swallow but you have to understand the way that Hamass, Hezbollah, Al-Queda, most terrorist organizations operate from the ground up. They start with the kids. An example is in Africa when the militia kidnaps kids for their army. I don't know if Hamass actually kidnaps kids because their politics is so strong that they don't need to. They spread the hateful propaganda and by the time the kids are teenagers, the thought of their belief being wrong will never cross their mind. They have had the belief of hating Jews and Christians so instilled in their mind that it will never leave them and they will happily die for that belief thinking that killing the enemy is for Allah and actually killing people will be the reason for them to go to heaven!

    This is evil.

    So honestly, whats your opinion about all of that Turner?

  10. #40
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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    4 dead vs. over 500 dead

    Which side is the bad guys?
    Israel has killed so many because they have one of the best armies in the world backed by one of the biggest super powers in the world, USA.

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    Originally Posted by JayJ44
    This is getting ridiculous already. Ok...
    Why is that a bad analogy? You can't just say something is a bad analogy without saying why. People are being killed. Yes, yes they are. Mostly in Gaza. It appears that THOSE lives don't matter, at least not to you and people who think this way.
    This is a bit of an aside, but Ron Kuby said something very interesting earlier today. If Hamas had taken over a big apartment building in Tel Aviv, would they bomb it, kill everyone in it (including those Israeli civilians living in it) and call them "collateral damage"? I'm sure they would not. So if the value of anyone's lives are being trivialized, it is those of the Palestinian people, so don't you dare try to make it otherwise.

    If you want to go back through history I do not think you would like what you find. Zionism is responsible for hundreds of thousands of murders, including those of holocaust survivors, whose boats were bombed because they were being sent not to Palestine, but some other country. Zionists will kill ANYONE who stands in their way. Who started what? Zionism started a war on civilian Arabs.

    And manufacturing and distributing weapons? Are you kidding? Israel uses weapons they got from America to kill children.

    I'm glad you know that you're being lied to. I know that I am not. There is nothing for him to lie about; the facts are there. You, however, are not intelligent enough to understand the difference between fact and fiction. I hope that one day you learn, for your sake. It is not good to go through life with the wool pulled down around your eyes.

    I see there is no point talking to you about this, so answer whatever ridiculous thing you want. Like I said, I hope one day you learn.
    Jay J there is always two sides to the coin.

    Hamass is currently planting their rockets in civilian sectors so that if Israel attacks the rockets, they will kill innocent people. This is a fact Jay J. I turned on both CNN and FOX news and they both said the same thing. Ben Wedeman said on CNN that Hamass actually planted a rocket in the middle of a refugee camp. And you can say that the news distorts everything but many people dont like Israel in this country so the news will find dirt on both sides in this war.

    The Truth - Hamass is killing it's own people for political propaganda to shed a overall negative light on Israel so that the other Arab nations can join their cause because Hamass knows they can't win this war by themselves. Israel's army is too experienced and is so much better technologically that Hamass has no choice but to sit, wait, and fight to the death. Whether Israel started this or not, this is the way Hamass has been operating for some time.

    Do you agree with planting rockets in civilian sectors?

    From Hamass' view it is smart because it forces Israel to bring in ground troops in that area than just sending out air strikes.

    Hamass gets its weapons from Iran who have the capability to create Nuclear weapons if not now, then very soon. This is due to Intel reports from a few years back. Iran will keep supplying them because Iran sees organizations like Hamass and Hezbollah as minor groups for a large cause. That cause is to wipe Israel off the map as the President of Iran has quoted once before. If you don't believe me look it up.

    So what's your opinion on what I mentioned?

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    Jay J there is always two sides to the coin.

    Hamass is currently planting their rockets in civilian sectors so that if Israel attacks the rockets, they will kill innocent people. This is a fact Jay J. I turned on both CNN and FOX news and they both said the same thing. Ben Wedeman said on CNN that Hamass actually planted a rocket in the middle of a refugee camp. And you can say that the news distorts everything but many people dont like Israel in this country so the news will find dirt on both sides in this war.

    The Truth - Hamass is killing it's own people for political propaganda to shed a overall negative light on Israel so that the other Arab nations can join their cause because Hamass knows they can't win this war by themselves. Israel's army is too experienced and is so much better technologically that Hamass has no choice but to sit, wait, and fight to the death. Whether Israel started this or not, this is the way Hamass has been operating for some time.

    Do you agree with planting rockets in civilian sectors?

    From Hamass' view it is smart because it forces Israel to bring in ground troops in that area than just sending out air strikes.

    Hamass gets its weapons from Iran who have the capability to create Nuclear weapons if not now, then very soon. This is due to Intel reports from a few years back. Iran will keep supplying them because Iran sees organizations like Hamass and Hezbollah as minor groups for a large cause. That cause is to wipe Israel off the map as the President of Iran has quoted once before. If you don't believe me look it up.

    So what's your opinion on what I mentioned?
    I addressed this before. Gaza is an extremely densely populated area. Hamas is the government of Gaza, thus it is ever-present in the area. They are not "hiding;" they are living in the area. It's like saying the NYPD is a militant operation hiding amongst the civilians of New York. It's ridiculous. Of COURSE there are two sides to everything, I know that. But in this case, Hamas has not had the opportunity to do anything wrong, because they have been under attack from Israel--and the area has been under unrelenting siege, causing a humanitarian crisis. I am not a fan of Hamas in many ways, but right now, that doesn't matter. They are trying to protect their people, their land, and their dignity.

    As far as Iran goes, you really are besieged with misinformation. The Iranian president wants to dismantle Israel and give it back to the people it belongs to, the Palestinians. The Nuteuri Karta, an orthodox Jewish organization, wants the same thing. Please, look them up, especially Rabbi Yisroel Weiss. You will see there is nothing anti-semitic about this. If Iran helps Hamas and Hezbollah, it is only because they are a resistance movement--freedom fighters--against an entity they strongly disagree with. I can't say I blame their disagreement considering the horrors constantly perpetrated by Israel.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    In OG's first post on this thread he mentioned how israel is the evil of this world etc. (Like I haven't heard that from him before).

    I'll elaborate by saying that if there is anyone evil in this world, and especially during this conflict, then it's the videos I see of Hamass burning Israeli flags while kids that haven't hit age 10 yet are holding ak47's saying Allah Akbar. And saying to kill the Jews and kill every last one of them without even knowing the other side. This is pure evil. And if people don;t see that then they either have seen everything and don';t even care or they have their rear so far up their you know what, that they have no clue what is going on.

    You know that in the world of Radical Islam that are Extremist, that they actually teach kids in elementary schools to hate Jews and that they are Evil right from the start. I once watched this video of a guy say that when he was in school that their National Anthem was a song about killing the Jews. I'd be happy to hear anyone say that is not brainwashing for political propganda. If the word "brainwashing" is ever used, then it should defintly be used when talking about Hamass and Hezbollah. That's why they have had such large numbers and such strong morale to do anything necessary to wipe Israel off the map. They start spreading hateful propaganda to their area starting with the kids so they can breed a whole generation of "freedom fighters." As you explained.

    The freedom fighters are people that have not grown up in a society were they have been perecuted by the Jews, CHristians, etc. These people have grown up in societies were Radical Islam was their foundation of everything to the point were suicide bombings, and every attack they initiated was for the reason of doing it for Allah or for Hamass/Hezbollah which uses Allah as an excuse for their actions.

    Anything they do is for Allah whether it says that in the Koran or not. And many experts on Islam will tell you that Radical Extremist don't follow the Koran 100% and distort much of it. Were other people such as Hal Lindsey who is an Evangelical Christian scholar, who I follow because he's brilliant, have been studying the Koran for over 30 years and have discovered a hateful and violent agenda towards Jews and Christians everywhere coming from the Koran.

    These people have been brainwashed threw certain passages of the Koran, distorted teachings of the Koran, and especially threw a society of Radical Extreme Islams that base their actions on hating the Jews and Christians to the point of wiping them out for world domination and conversion to Islam.

    I gave you a lot of information to swallow but you have to understand the way that Hamass, Hezbollah, Al-Queda, most terrorist organizations operate from the ground up. They start with the kids. An example is in Africa when the militia kidnaps kids for their army. I don't know if Hamass actually kidnaps kids because their politics is so strong that they don't need to. They spread the hateful propaganda and by the time the kids are teenagers, the thought of their belief being wrong will never cross their mind. They have had the belief of hating Jews and Christians so instilled in their mind that it will never leave them and they will happily die for that belief thinking that killing the enemy is for Allah and actually killing people will be the reason for them to go to heaven!

    This is evil.

    So honestly, whats your opinion about all of that Turner?

    Freedom fighting has nothing to do with Islam or Judaism.

    It had to do with an oppressed people fighting their oppressors. People trapped in refuge camps, without decent schools or even adequate food or service. 3/4 of Palestinians don't even have access to electricity.

    This has nothing to do with religion. Sure, they may be a fueling point being used to pervert this situation and its certainly being used by both sides as a motivating point, but thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the base of this whole thing.

    Israel mistreats the Palestinians. During the entire cease fire when there weren't attacks, they had the Palestinians blockaded in there without aide from foreign countries. No food, no water, nothing. Is that right?

    I'm not saying Hamas is right, that they aren't bad people, but you must understand the viewpoint of Palestinians who turn to these guys. They are in pain, they are suffering. NO ONE CARES. All they have is Hamas, nothing else.

    The religion point is void when it comes down the basics of an unwanted people, kicked out of their own homes and now being exterminated. This is a genocide.

    Palestinian people are good people. Israeli people are good people. Hamas and the Israeli gov't are the problem. Zionism is a problem. No reason for 20% of the palestinian casualties to be children. This is ridiculous. The Israel feels invincible, so they now decided to exterminate the Palestinians. You can't reason the death they've caused. Some rockets don't justify this. They killed more in the first day of this invasion than rockets killed in the past 10 years. Are the rockets wrong? **** yea. But that is Hamas. Leave the ****ing children out of this.

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    Originally Posted by SpursFan4Life
    That's quite a terrible analogy. People have been killed on the Israeli side. I guess their lives aren't important. You're right.

    You wanna go back through history and look at who started what? Maybe if the military wing of Hamas didn't continue to manufacture and distribute weapons, Israel wouldn't have felt the need to do something about it.

    Ah gotcha, your one Uncle, who is clearly unbiased, is more concrete of a source than anyone I know there. Odds are we're both being lied to. You're just too stupid to realize it.
    and thousands have been killed on the palestinian side in the last few days alone....

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    Here's a rundown for you people mislead by the "mainstream media":


    -The people of Gaza voted for Hamas to run their government, Israel and the U.S. didn't like that and they wanted Fatah to run Gaza.

    -The Gaza strip is a tiny puny place jam packed with over one million people who are mostly POOR.

    -The Palestinians shot these ineffective rockets (which are comparable to firecrackers) at Israel because their country is under siege and Israel WOULD NOT allow supplies to be brought into Gaza to live at least a poor or livable life. If you were poor and had no resources, tangible things to live your life what can you do?

    -Israel just wants to destroy, test new weapons (Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME), and re-occupy that piece of land. A model of Gaza was built during the "truce" for future planning of attacks, the Israeli army was training with this model for 18 months. The "truce" was done just to calm things down to develop their pre-meditated attacks.

    -
    This is ALSO to be used to extend the war to OTHER regions that will help COMMIT the United States to advancement in war with Iran and etc.

    Example: The U.S. attacking Afghanistan then extending it to Iraq, and more.

    There's not much these poor people can do, they are surrounded geographically and are way over powered. It's a shame to see the Israeli government go through with these actions towards it's neighbor.

    Also,
    Obama is only going to contribute and help Israel and their inhuman acts, taking orders from the people who sponsor and control him, who can also exploit him:


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