Hamass and Israel go to War

Paul1355 · Jan 5, 2009

JayJ44 said:
This is getting ridiculous already. Ok...
Why is that a bad analogy? You can't just say something is a bad analogy without saying why. People are being killed. Yes, yes they are. Mostly in Gaza. It appears that THOSE lives don't matter, at least not to you and people who think this way.
This is a bit of an aside, but Ron Kuby said something very interesting earlier today. If Hamas had taken over a big apartment building in Tel Aviv, would they bomb it, kill everyone in it (including those Israeli civilians living in it) and call them "collateral damage"? I'm sure they would not. So if the value of anyone's lives are being trivialized, it is those of the Palestinian people, so don't you dare try to make it otherwise.

If you want to go back through history I do not think you would like what you find. Zionism is responsible for hundreds of thousands of murders, including those of holocaust survivors, whose boats were bombed because they were being sent not to Palestine, but some other country. Zionists will kill ANYONE who stands in their way. Who started what? Zionism started a war on civilian Arabs.

And manufacturing and distributing weapons? Are you kidding? Israel uses weapons they got from America to kill children.

I'm glad you know that you're being lied to. I know that I am not. There is nothing for him to lie about; the facts are there. You, however, are not intelligent enough to understand the difference between fact and fiction. I hope that one day you learn, for your sake. It is not good to go through life with the wool pulled down around your eyes.

I see there is no point talking to you about this, so answer whatever ridiculous thing you want. Like I said, I hope one day you learn.

Jay J there is always two sides to the coin.

Hamass is currently planting their rockets in civilian sectors so that if Israel attacks the rockets, they will kill innocent people. This is a fact Jay J. I turned on both CNN and FOX news and they both said the same thing. Ben Wedeman said on CNN that Hamass actually planted a rocket in the middle of a refugee camp. And you can say that the news distorts everything but many people dont like Israel in this country so the news will find dirt on both sides in this war.

The Truth - Hamass is killing it's own people for political propaganda to shed a overall negative light on Israel so that the other Arab nations can join their cause because Hamass knows they can't win this war by themselves. Israel's army is too experienced and is so much better technologically that Hamass has no choice but to sit, wait, and fight to the death. Whether Israel started this or not, this is the way Hamass has been operating for some time.

Do you agree with planting rockets in civilian sectors?

From Hamass' view it is smart because it forces Israel to bring in ground troops in that area than just sending out air strikes.

Hamass gets its weapons from Iran who have the capability to create Nuclear weapons if not now, then very soon. This is due to Intel reports from a few years back. Iran will keep supplying them because Iran sees organizations like Hamass and Hezbollah as minor groups for a large cause. That cause is to wipe Israel off the map as the President of Iran has quoted once before. If you don't believe me look it up.

So what's your opinion on what I mentioned?

JayJ44 · Jan 5, 2009

Paul1355 said:
Jay J there is always two sides to the coin.

Hamass is currently planting their rockets in civilian sectors so that if Israel attacks the rockets, they will kill innocent people. This is a fact Jay J. I turned on both CNN and FOX news and they both said the same thing. Ben Wedeman said on CNN that Hamass actually planted a rocket in the middle of a refugee camp. And you can say that the news distorts everything but many people dont like Israel in this country so the news will find dirt on both sides in this war.

The Truth - Hamass is killing it's own people for political propaganda to shed a overall negative light on Israel so that the other Arab nations can join their cause because Hamass knows they can't win this war by themselves. Israel's army is too experienced and is so much better technologically that Hamass has no choice but to sit, wait, and fight to the death. Whether Israel started this or not, this is the way Hamass has been operating for some time.

Do you agree with planting rockets in civilian sectors?

From Hamass' view it is smart because it forces Israel to bring in ground troops in that area than just sending out air strikes.

Hamass gets its weapons from Iran who have the capability to create Nuclear weapons if not now, then very soon. This is due to Intel reports from a few years back. Iran will keep supplying them because Iran sees organizations like Hamass and Hezbollah as minor groups for a large cause. That cause is to wipe Israel off the map as the President of Iran has quoted once before. If you don't believe me look it up.

So what's your opinion on what I mentioned?

I addressed this before. Gaza is an extremely densely populated area. Hamas is the government of Gaza, thus it is ever-present in the area. They are not "hiding;" they are living in the area. It's like saying the NYPD is a militant operation hiding amongst the civilians of New York. It's ridiculous. Of COURSE there are two sides to everything, I know that. But in this case, Hamas has not had the opportunity to do anything wrong, because they have been under attack from Israel--and the area has been under unrelenting siege, causing a humanitarian crisis. I am not a fan of Hamas in many ways, but right now, that doesn't matter. They are trying to protect their people, their land, and their dignity.

As far as Iran goes, you really are besieged with misinformation. The Iranian president wants to dismantle Israel and give it back to the people it belongs to, the Palestinians. The Nuteuri Karta, an orthodox Jewish organization, wants the same thing. Please, look them up, especially Rabbi Yisroel Weiss. You will see there is nothing anti-semitic about this. If Iran helps Hamas and Hezbollah, it is only because they are a resistance movement--freedom fighters--against an entity they strongly disagree with. I can't say I blame their disagreement considering the horrors constantly perpetrated by Israel.

TunerAddict · Jan 5, 2009

Paul1355 said:
In OG's first post on this thread he mentioned how israel is the evil of this world etc. (Like I haven't heard that from him before).

I'll elaborate by saying that if there is anyone evil in this world, and especially during this conflict, then it's the videos I see of Hamass burning Israeli flags while kids that haven't hit age 10 yet are holding ak47's saying Allah Akbar. And saying to kill the Jews and kill every last one of them without even knowing the other side. This is pure evil. And if people don;t see that then they either have seen everything and don';t even care or they have their rear so far up their you know what, that they have no clue what is going on.

You know that in the world of Radical Islam that are Extremist, that they actually teach kids in elementary schools to hate Jews and that they are Evil right from the start. I once watched this video of a guy say that when he was in school that their National Anthem was a song about killing the Jews. I'd be happy to hear anyone say that is not brainwashing for political propganda. If the word "brainwashing" is ever used, then it should defintly be used when talking about Hamass and Hezbollah. That's why they have had such large numbers and such strong morale to do anything necessary to wipe Israel off the map. They start spreading hateful propaganda to their area starting with the kids so they can breed a whole generation of "freedom fighters." As you explained.

The freedom fighters are people that have not grown up in a society were they have been perecuted by the Jews, CHristians, etc. These people have grown up in societies were Radical Islam was their foundation of everything to the point were suicide bombings, and every attack they initiated was for the reason of doing it for Allah or for Hamass/Hezbollah which uses Allah as an excuse for their actions.

Anything they do is for Allah whether it says that in the Koran or not. And many experts on Islam will tell you that Radical Extremist don't follow the Koran 100% and distort much of it. Were other people such as Hal Lindsey who is an Evangelical Christian scholar, who I follow because he's brilliant, have been studying the Koran for over 30 years and have discovered a hateful and violent agenda towards Jews and Christians everywhere coming from the Koran.

These people have been brainwashed threw certain passages of the Koran, distorted teachings of the Koran, and especially threw a society of Radical Extreme Islams that base their actions on hating the Jews and Christians to the point of wiping them out for world domination and conversion to Islam.

I gave you a lot of information to swallow but you have to understand the way that Hamass, Hezbollah, Al-Queda, most terrorist organizations operate from the ground up. They start with the kids. An example is in Africa when the militia kidnaps kids for their army. I don't know if Hamass actually kidnaps kids because their politics is so strong that they don't need to. They spread the hateful propaganda and by the time the kids are teenagers, the thought of their belief being wrong will never cross their mind. They have had the belief of hating Jews and Christians so instilled in their mind that it will never leave them and they will happily die for that belief thinking that killing the enemy is for Allah and actually killing people will be the reason for them to go to heaven!

This is evil.

So honestly, whats your opinion about all of that Turner?

Freedom fighting has nothing to do with Islam or Judaism.

It had to do with an oppressed people fighting their oppressors. People trapped in refuge camps, without decent schools or even adequate food or service. 3/4 of Palestinians don't even have access to electricity.

This has nothing to do with religion. Sure, they may be a fueling point being used to pervert this situation and its certainly being used by both sides as a motivating point, but thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the base of this whole thing.

Israel mistreats the Palestinians. During the entire cease fire when there weren't attacks, they had the Palestinians blockaded in there without aide from foreign countries. No food, no water, nothing. Is that right?

I'm not saying Hamas is right, that they aren't bad people, but you must understand the viewpoint of Palestinians who turn to these guys. They are in pain, they are suffering. NO ONE CARES. All they have is Hamas, nothing else.

The religion point is void when it comes down the basics of an unwanted people, kicked out of their own homes and now being exterminated. This is a genocide.

Palestinian people are good people. Israeli people are good people. Hamas and the Israeli gov't are the problem. Zionism is a problem. No reason for 20% of the palestinian casualties to be children. This is ridiculous. The Israel feels invincible, so they now decided to exterminate the Palestinians. You can't reason the death they've caused. Some rockets don't justify this. They killed more in the first day of this invasion than rockets killed in the past 10 years. Are the rockets wrong? **** yea. But that is Hamas. Leave the ****ing children out of this.

DaTPRiNCE · Jan 6, 2009

SpursFan4Life said:
That's quite a terrible analogy. People have been killed on the Israeli side. I guess their lives aren't important. You're right.

You wanna go back through history and look at who started what? Maybe if the military wing of Hamas didn't continue to manufacture and distribute weapons, Israel wouldn't have felt the need to do something about it.

Ah gotcha, your one Uncle, who is clearly unbiased, is more concrete of a source than anyone I know there. Odds are we're both being lied to. You're just too stupid to realize it.

and thousands have been killed on the palestinian side in the last few days alone....

Akamu · Jan 6, 2009

Here's a rundown for you people mislead by the "mainstream media":

-The people of Gaza voted for Hamas to run their government, Israel and the U.S. didn't like that and they wanted Fatah to run Gaza.

-The Gaza strip is a tiny puny place jam packed with over one million people who are mostly POOR.

-The Palestinians shot these ineffective rockets (which are comparable to firecrackers) at Israel because their country is under siege and Israel WOULD NOT allow supplies to be brought into Gaza to live at least a poor or livable life. If you were poor and had no resources, tangible things to live your life what can you do?

-Israel just wants to destroy, test new weapons (Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME), and re-occupy that piece of land. A model of Gaza was built during the "truce" for future planning of attacks, the Israeli army was training with this model for 18 months. The "truce" was done just to calm things down to develop their pre-meditated attacks.

-This is ALSO to be used to extend the war to OTHER regions that will help COMMIT the United States to advancement in war with Iran and etc.

Example: The U.S. attacking Afghanistan then extending it to Iraq, and more.

There's not much these poor people can do, they are surrounded geographically and are way over powered. It's a shame to see the Israeli government go through with these actions towards it's neighbor.

Also, Obama is only going to contribute and help Israel and their inhuman acts, taking orders from the people who sponsor and control him, who can also exploit him:

SpursFan4Life · Jan 6, 2009

Akamu said:
-The people of Gaza voted for Hamas to run their government, Israel and the U.S. didn't like that and they wanted Fatah to run Gaza.

When was this reported differently?

The Gaza strip is a tiny puny place jam packed with over one million people who are mostly POOR.

Again, never in question.

The Palestinians shot these ineffective rockets (which are comparable to firecrackers) at Israel because their country is under siege and Israel WOULD NOT allow supplies to be brought into Gaza to live at least a poor or livable life. If you were poor and had no resources, tangible things to live your life what can you do?

Yeah those things look like they wouldn't even scratch someone's skin.

Israel just wants to destroy, test new weapons (Dense Inert Metal Explosive (DIME), and re-occupy that piece of land. A model of Gaza was built during the "truce" for future planning of attacks, the Israeli army was training with this model for 18 months. The "truce" was done just to calm things down to develop their pre-meditated attacks.

Where are you getting this information? Do you know someone in the Israeli Defense Ministry?

This is ALSO to be used to extend the war to OTHER regions that will help COMMIT the United States to advancement in war with Iran and etc.

I see you can see the future. What are this weeks lotto numbers?

Example: The U.S. attacking Afghanistan then extending it to Iraq, and more.

Click to expand...

Example: Completely different countries.

There's not much these poor people can do, they are surrounded geographically and are way over powered. It's a shame to see the Israeli government go through with these actions towards it's neighbor.

They were told to leave before the military action happened.

Also, Obama is only going to contribute and help Israel and their inhuman acts, taking orders from the people who sponsor and control him, who can also exploit him:

Lotto numbers?

wow calling Obama a slave was an unfortunate choice of words. I'd like to see how he expects to "negotiate" with Hamas when they refuse to recognize Israel. Good luck negotiating with a faction that doesn't admit you exist.

Akamu · Jan 6, 2009

Look at this asshole trying to prove me wrong on some stupid shyt, they didn't warn them go read page one about the lies. Your another moron taking things people say out of it's original context.

You try living there under their conditions and come at me with more stupid nonsense gtfoutta here Spursfag.

Compare this mid-range weak sauce rocket and it's damage, PROVOKED by Israel:

To THIS:

WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES BELOW!:

Israel Using Depleted Uranium Against Gaza Victims

Paul Joseph Watson
Prison Planet.com
Monday, January 5, 2008

Medics have found traces of depleted uranium in victims of Israel’s brutal attack on Gaza, according to a Press TV report, meaning the ultimate death toll could be far higher as future generations are plagued by cancers and birth defects.

“Norwegian medics told Press TV correspondent Akram al-Sattari that some of the victims who have been wounded since Israel began its attacks on the Gaza Strip on December 27 have traces of depleted uranium in their bodies,” states the article.

Following the conclusion of the first Gulf War in 1991, in which depleted uranium was used by U.S. forces, cancers and birth defects in Iraq soared and many veterans organizations agree that the weapon was responsible for the emergence of Gulf War Syndrome that has plagued hundreds of thousands of Gulf War veterans.

Depleted uranium shell holes at the infamous Highway of Death in Iraq showed measurements 1,000 times more radioactive than background radiation. The residue of a DU weapon can be spread by the wind and infect humans not in the immediate area as well as the entire food chain.

The image below shows some of the shocking effects of depleted uranium and how its use leads to horrific birth defects.

In 1999, the UN called for the use of depleted uranium to be banned worldwide but efforts to downplay its effects led by the Pentagon have blocked such a ban.

Former head of the Pentagon’s 1994 U.S. Army Depleted Uranium Project Maj. Doug Rokke has faced constant harassment, including murder attempts, after going public in 1997 to expose the health effects from depleted uranium that the U.S. government and the World Health Organization have consistently dismissed.

Israel’s use of depleted uranium against victims of the Gaza bombing campaign provides further evidence that war crimes are being committed with the tacit approval of both the current administration as well as president elect Barack Obama.

Israel is using INHUMAN tactics and weapons containing depleted uranium!

Do you understand what DEPLETED URANIUM is? and it's long it takes for an area contaminated by it lasts? This is not even smart for Israel to be using it as they are RIGHT near the contaminated area.

DU - Depleted Uranium:

SpursFan4Life · Jan 6, 2009

Oh I get it now. As long as someone claims they were provoked, and as long as they have inferior deadly weapons, they are immune to attack. Gotcha, just checking.

SpursFan4Life · Jan 6, 2009

Akamu said:
Israel is using INHUMAN tactics and weapons containing depleted uranium!

Do you understand what DEPLETED URANIUM is? and it's long it takes for an area contaminated by it lasts? This is not even smart for Israel to be using it as they are RIGHT near the contaminated area.

DU - Depleted Uranium:

I'll wait for it to be confirmed before I make any kind of comment on it. I see you believe everything you read on the internet. Have you heard they took gullible out of the dictionary?

Paul1355 · Jan 6, 2009

JayJ44 said:
I addressed this before. Gaza is an extremely densely populated area. Hamas is the government of Gaza, thus it is ever-present in the area. They are not "hiding;" they are living in the area. It's like saying the NYPD is a militant operation hiding amongst the civilians of New York. It's ridiculous. Of COURSE there are two sides to everything, I know that. But in this case, Hamas has not had the opportunity to do anything wrong, because they have been under attack from Israel--and the area has been under unrelenting siege, causing a humanitarian crisis. I am not a fan of Hamas in many ways, but right now, that doesn't matter. They are trying to protect their people, their land, and their dignity.

As far as Iran goes, you really are besieged with misinformation. The Iranian president wants to dismantle Israel and give it back to the people it belongs to, the Palestinians. The Nuteuri Karta, an orthodox Jewish organization, wants the same thing. Please, look them up, especially Rabbi Yisroel Weiss. You will see there is nothing anti-semitic about this. If Iran helps Hamas and Hezbollah, it is only because they are a resistance movement--freedom fighters--against an entity they strongly disagree with. I can't say I blame their disagreement considering the horrors constantly perpetrated by Israel.

Just want to tell you that The President of Iran is Anti-semetic. Here's my proof.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/27/israel.iran

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1062452.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/26/news/iran.php

This shows that President Amadenijad actually said this statement "Wipe Israel off the map"....this came from basically searching on Google and these sites came from the first page so him saying this has been news for sometime, obviously since 2005.
When a person says they want to actually wipe a country of the map...they don't mean give it back to the people my friend. Think, it's not hard to realize this, he isn't messing around or beating around the bush. He means exactly what he implied.

Back on Gaza....

I know Gaza is a very dense and populated area. To be more specific, in that small region there is a population of over 1.5 million people.

Fact is that Hamass plants their rockets in civilian sectors surrounded by innocent people.....they can easily put it on a small base or some fortified building with all their soldiers...but no they put were innocent people are located. Jay J, they put it in the middle of a refugee camp! You can't give the excuse that it's because they have a high population. In the middle of a refugee camp? I think we both know that I'm right on this one.

Hamass hasn't had the opportunity to do anything wrong?

They have sent over 300 rockets that hit Israel last year alone....and Israel still didn't attack until this moment. Hamass wasn't wrong in sending over 300 rockets?

The "horrors" are going both ways Jay J.

I will look up that Jewish group you mentioned.

SpursFan4Life · Jan 6, 2009

Haven't you heard? The rockets are mere firecrackers.

The organization he mentioned wants jews to leave the holy land because they interpret the bible to say that jews are not supposed to return to the holy land until the messiah comes. They are an extremist group that all other jews dislike and pretty much disown.

Paul1355 · Jan 6, 2009

TunerAddict said:
Freedom fighting has nothing to do with Islam or Judaism.

It had to do with an oppressed people fighting their oppressors. People trapped in refuge camps, without decent schools or even adequate food or service. 3/4 of Palestinians don't even have access to electricity.

This has nothing to do with religion. Sure, they may be a fueling point being used to pervert this situation and its certainly being used by both sides as a motivating point, but thats not what I'm talking about. I'm talking about the base of this whole thing.

Israel mistreats the Palestinians. During the entire cease fire when there weren't attacks, they had the Palestinians blockaded in there without aide from foreign countries. No food, no water, nothing. Is that right?

I'm not saying Hamas is right, that they aren't bad people, but you must understand the viewpoint of Palestinians who turn to these guys. They are in pain, they are suffering. NO ONE CARES. All they have is Hamas, nothing else.

The religion point is void when it comes down the basics of an unwanted people, kicked out of their own homes and now being exterminated. This is a genocide.

Palestinian people are good people. Israeli people are good people. Hamas and the Israeli gov't are the problem. Zionism is a problem. No reason for 20% of the palestinian casualties to be children. This is ridiculous. The Israel feels invincible, so they now decided to exterminate the Palestinians. You can't reason the death they've caused. Some rockets don't justify this. They killed more in the first day of this invasion than rockets killed in the past 10 years. Are the rockets wrong? **** yea. But that is Hamas. Leave the ****ing children out of this.

Atleast you aren't biased.

I disagree with your view that it is not about religion. It's all about religion and most of these wars and battles between Jews and Muslims is because of belief.

I mean just look at the Koran...Radical Islam Extremist distort it which makes it twice as violent...on the other hand it is partly dangerous without distortion. For example Sura 5:51 saying that Muslims should not trust Jews and Christians for they plot against Muslims...look it up.

You may be right that this actual event of Gaza is not all because of religion...but a fueling point it is like you mentioned and that can go a LONG WAY. And it will and will never stop until these two sides utterly destroy each other.

Israel looks like a bully because it's just stronger in every category. They have stronger allies, more experienced ground and air troops, a brilliant history of military strategy...my proof is how they have survived all these years while being surrounded by enemies.

Israel is known for being inaccurate with their rocket shells....i can admit that...it's widely known....but currently the way Hamass is operating the situation by planting rockets in civilian sectors so that if Israel continues their bad rep of rocket shelling, they will hit civillians and get the blame for purposely killing innocents like they have been blamed during this whole conflict. This is how they spread their political propaganda....it just shocks me to see that people didnt know about this information.

And don't get all offensive when I talk about brainwashed kids. This is how Hamass is running their long term plans! Don't ignore it. This is the way they operate to gain numbers and spread influence from day 1. Kids don't know better and by the time they are older their is no way they will turn to the other side. They are so brainwashed that they perform such acts as suicide bombings and threatening any Jew with an AK47 pointed at them.

Leave the kids out of it?

You should tell that to Hamass. If I don't explain it who will?

Paul1355 · Jan 6, 2009

SpursFan4Life said:
Haven't you heard? The rockets are mere firecrackers.

The organization he mentioned wants Jews to leave the holy land because they interpret the bible to say that Jews are not supposed to return to the holy land until the messiah comes. They are an extremist group that all other Jews dislike and pretty much disown.

lol mere firecrackers

Both sides have killed many and this conflict should show who will end it.

Enough is enough from both sides....peace treaties are a thing in the past between these two factions. They can simply not agree on a truce without each other always breaking it.

I feel deep sorrow for the people in Gaza who can't run or escape this war in such a highly populated area. It's like having a war in NYC.

But Israel and Hamass have gone so far to the point of war.

This was inevitable and I said this when Israel still backed out of Lebanon in 2006 when they were at war with Hezbollah.

This won't end until someone is utterly wiped out or scared to the point of not attacking for a while.

They deeply hate each other.

Honestly, the UN and world leaders trying to stop this will just make the next conflict more extreme and brutal.

This is like two boxers that just need to let their anger out on each other and someone keeps stopping them from fighting.

JayJ44 · Jan 6, 2009

Paul1355 said:
Just want to tell you that The President of Iran is Anti-semetic. Here's my proof.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/27/israel.iran

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1062452.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/26/news/iran.php

This shows that President Amadenijad actually said this statement "Wipe Israel off the map"....this came from basically searching on Google and these sites came from the first page so him saying this has been news for sometime, obviously since 2005.
When a person says they want to actually wipe a country of the map...they don't mean give it back to the people my friend. Think, it's not hard to realize this, he isn't messing around or beating around the bush. He means exactly what he implied.

Back on Gaza....

I know Gaza is a very dense and populated area. To be more specific, in that small region there is a population of over 1.5 million people.

Fact is that Hamass plants their rockets in civilian sectors surrounded by innocent people.....they can easily put it on a small base or some fortified building with all their soldiers...but no they put were innocent people are located. Jay J, they put it in the middle of a refugee camp! You can't give the excuse that it's because they have a high population. In the middle of a refugee camp? I think we both know that I'm right on this one.

Hamass hasn't had the opportunity to do anything wrong?

They have sent over 300 rockets that hit Israel last year alone....and Israel still didn't attack until this moment. Hamass wasn't wrong in sending over 300 rockets?

The "horrors" are going both ways Jay J.

I will look up that Jewish group you mentioned.

Actually, that DOES imply that he wants to give it back to the Palestinian people. And besides, there has been proof that he is very often mistranslated. He strongly believes in wiping out the STATE of Israel; he never mentioned the people. He is far from anti-semitic. There are many Jews living in Iran. They have no problem with him. Somehow anti-zionist has come to mean anti-semitic. It's ridiculous. The Iranian President was on Larry King and he clearly expressed his views. He believes in Palestine's right to self-determination. The man said nothing wrong. Nowhere do I see him saying anything like "kill all Jews" or "Jews are bad people." Thus he cannot be called anti-semitic. And to be exact, anti-semitic means against semitic people. Arabs are semitic people. Many Jews are not, or are barely. It's ironic, because most people throwing around these "anti-semitic" accusations are, in fact, anti-semites themselves.

First of all, Israel SAYS Hamas put their "rockets" in the middle of a refugee camp. They also said mortars were being fired from the UN school, and bombed it, killing innocent women and children who were hiding there. The UN said that there is no way anything was being fired there, and the UN TOLD Israel the exact coordinates of this school so they would NOT hit it. Face it, they're LYING. They target civilians, then turn around and say "oh we weren't targetting civilians, they were firing at us." Yeah, ok.
Second, Hamas is the GOVERNMENT. They can't be on a "small base" (I'm not even sure, given the situation in Gaza and the dense population, that it's even physically possible). What if we stuck the NYPD upstate by Buffalo and expected them to still operate here. It's impossible. It makes no sense.

And how exactly are the horrors going on both sides? Those perpetrated by Israel are quite clear in the outrageous death tolls, and the scenes of young murdered children.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6583080
please read Stanley Cohen's paragraph especially. And note how the definition of terrorism used by John O'Sullivan actually applies far better to Israel than to Hamas.

Neturei Karta Rabbi Yisroel Weiss protesting--he says some really interesting things, please watch.

http://www.nkusa.org/
Neturei Karta's website

IRANIAN Jews protesting Gaza atrocities. These are Jews. Who are in Iran. No one has hurt them. They are protesting.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jul/12/israel.iran
This site both refutes the translation of "wipe Israel of the map" and shows that Iranian Jews refuse to leave their country and move to Israel, even though Israel attempts to bribe them. They love their country and are loyal to it.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=58
Another article about Iranian Jews. They "do not perceive themselves to be in great danger in the Islamic republic."

TunerAddict · Jan 7, 2009

Paul1355 said:
Just want to tell you that The President of Iran is Anti-semetic. Here's my proof.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2005/oct/27/israel.iran

http://www.rferl.org/content/article/1062452.html

http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/10/26/news/iran.php

This shows that President Amadenijad actually said this statement "Wipe Israel off the map"....this came from basically searching on Google and these sites came from the first page so him saying this has been news for sometime, obviously since 2005.
When a person says they want to actually wipe a country of the map...they don't mean give it back to the people my friend. Think, it's not hard to realize this, he isn't messing around or beating around the bush. He means exactly what he implied.

Back on Gaza....

I know Gaza is a very dense and populated area. To be more specific, in that small region there is a population of over 1.5 million people.

Fact is that Hamass plants their rockets in civilian sectors surrounded by innocent people.....they can easily put it on a small base or some fortified building with all their soldiers...but no they put were innocent people are located. Jay J, they put it in the middle of a refugee camp! You can't give the excuse that it's because they have a high population. In the middle of a refugee camp? I think we both know that I'm right on this one.

Hamass hasn't had the opportunity to do anything wrong?

They have sent over 300 rockets that hit Israel last year alone....and Israel still didn't attack until this moment. Hamass wasn't wrong in sending over 300 rockets?

The "horrors" are going both ways Jay J.

I will look up that Jewish group you mentioned.

God damn it Paul. This isn't anti-semitism!

Palestinians are ****ING SEMITES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rady · Jan 7, 2009

Paul1355 · Jan 7, 2009

TunerAddict said:
God damn it Paul. This isn't anti-semitism!

Palestinians are ****ING SEMITES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Turner re-read my post.

I said that The President of Iran was anti-semetic.

Paul1355 · Jan 7, 2009

JayJ44 said:
Actually, that DOES imply that he wants to give it back to the Palestinian people. And besides, there has been proof that he is very often mistranslated. He strongly believes in wiping out the STATE of Israel; he never mentioned the people. He is far from anti-semitic. There are many Jews living in Iran. They have no problem with him. Somehow anti-zionist has come to mean anti-semitic. It's ridiculous. The Iranian President was on Larry King and he clearly expressed his views. He believes in Palestine's right to self-determination. The man said nothing wrong. Nowhere do I see him saying anything like "kill all Jews" or "Jews are bad people." Thus he cannot be called anti-semitic. And to be exact, anti-semitic means against semitic people. Arabs are semitic people. Many Jews are not, or are barely. It's ironic, because most people throwing around these "anti-semitic" accusations are, in fact, anti-semites themselves.

First of all, Israel SAYS Hamas put their "rockets" in the middle of a refugee camp. They also said mortars were being fired from the UN school, and bombed it, killing innocent women and children who were hiding there. The UN said that there is no way anything was being fired there, and the UN TOLD Israel the exact coordinates of this school so they would NOT hit it. Face it, they're LYING. They target civilians, then turn around and say "oh we weren't targetting civilians, they were firing at us." Yeah, ok.
Second, Hamas is the GOVERNMENT. They can't be on a "small base" (I'm not even sure, given the situation in Gaza and the dense population, that it's even physically possible). What if we stuck the NYPD upstate by Buffalo and expected them to still operate here. It's impossible. It makes no sense.

And how exactly are the horrors going on both sides? Those perpetrated by Israel are quite clear in the outrageous death tolls, and the scenes of young murdered children.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=6583080
please read Stanley Cohen's paragraph especially. And note how the definition of terrorism used by John O'Sullivan actually applies far better to Israel than to Hamas.

Neturei Karta Rabbi Yisroel Weiss protesting--he says some really interesting things, please watch.

http://www.nkusa.org/
Neturei Karta's website

IRANIAN Jews protesting Gaza atrocities. These are Jews. Who are in Iran. No one has hurt them. They are protesting.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/jul/12/israel.iran
This site both refutes the translation of "wipe Israel of the map" and shows that Iranian Jews refuse to leave their country and move to Israel, even though Israel attempts to bribe them. They love their country and are loyal to it.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/news/currentarticle.cfm?id=58
Another article about Iranian Jews. They "do not perceive themselves to be in great danger in the Islamic republic."

okay we are really getting into this and I had an argument with someone a while back just on The President of Iran and if he was really an anti-Semite or not. He isn't hearts and kisses. He has a clear double standard on the way he feels about certain topics. Like Israel, Jews, USA, etc.

In the second video...The president of Iran openly saying that Israel is the Great Satan and that the Criminals are the USA and England.

In this video he seems like a nice guy that doesnt hate Israel or want death to israel...or saying that America and England are crminals....he has a double standard...he's nice in front of one guy and a radical in front of others.

Back to what you were saying....Israel has no reason to attack innocent people. Think about it. It doesn't help them in anyway. I said that I admitted that Israel has been known to shoot rockets inaccurately at times...but it gets to the point were an enemy can easily plan to put a rocket somewhere, civilian sector perhaps, and if they blame Israel, then Israel has no chance to defend itself because of a bad rep on rocket shelling in the past.

BY THE WAY...Israel didnt say that Hamass puts rockets in a refugee camp. A CNN corrispondent, Ben Wedeman said it in an interview on CNN in Jerusalem. He is familiar with this war and everything on it so being a senior correspondent isn't a position were he bullshyts everything.

Hamass is also mainly known for suicide bombings.

Do you agree with suicide bombings?

JayJ44 · Jan 7, 2009

Paul1355 said:
okay we are really getting into this and I had an argument with someone a while back just on The President of Iran and if he was really an anti-Semite or not. He isn't hearts and kisses. He has a clear double standard on the way he feels about certain topics. Like Israel, Jews, USA, etc.

In the second video...The president of Iran openly saying that Israel is the Great Satan and that the Criminals are the USA and England.

In this video he seems like a nice guy that doesnt hate Israel or want death to israel...or saying that America and England are crminals....he has a double standard...he's nice in front of one guy and a radical in front of others.

Back to what you were saying....Israel has no reason to attack innocent people. Think about it. It doesn't help them in anyway. I said that I admitted that Israel has been known to shoot rockets inaccurately at times...but it gets to the point were an enemy can easily plan to put a rocket somewhere, civilian sector perhaps, and if they blame Israel, then Israel has no chance to defend itself because of a bad rep on rocket shelling in the past.

BY THE WAY...Israel didnt say that Hamass puts rockets in a refugee camp. A CNN corrispondent, Ben Wedeman said it in an interview on CNN in Jerusalem. He is familiar with this war and everything on it so being a senior correspondent isn't a position were he bullshyts everything.

Hamass is also mainly known for suicide bombings.

Do you agree with suicide bombings?

This is really getting us nowhere, but I'll try again...
Do you understand Farsi? Do you speak it, and understand what the Iranian President says straight from his mouth? If not, you need to be very careful about the way people are translated.
I don't know what you mean about a "double standard" but he has nothing against Jews. He has something again Israel. Most informed, fair, and compassionate people do. You're not going to convince me that he hates Jews, because it isn't true, and really, it's a ridiculous argument used by Jews to try to make arguments against them go away. They call other Jews who are against zionism anti-semites, even the really religious ones, so obviously it has no meaning, which is unfortunate because some people in this world really ARE anti-semites. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

Israel has no reason to attack innocent people? They are trying to wipe out the Palestinian people! Isn't that obvious? They believe that "there can be no Palestine if there are no more Palestinians." Isn't that reason enough? Did the Nazis have any REASON to attack innocents? No, but that didn't stop them.

Israel fires inaccurately? First of all, is that an excuse? If I fire rockets at your neighbor's house and hit your house instead, and I say oops, didn't mean to hit you, I'm an inaccurate shooter, does that absolve my guilt? I think not. Second, they are able to target specific cars holding leaders they want to assassinate, so I don't believe that they are inaccurate. I believe they use this as an excuse.

I've said it before, Hamas DOES NOT put rockets in civilian sectors. Sure, they live near civilian sectors. If my neighbor happens to be a criminal, should I have to die for that? Also, this assumes Hamas are criminals, something I think is highly questionable. And where do you think CNN gets their information from? No one is allowed into Gaza, so how did they get this idea? They didn't see it for themselves. Hmm, maybe ISRAEL?

I don't approve of suicide bombings, but looking at them in isolation is completely counter-productive. They are the result of constant Israeli aggression. Too bad US news doesn't report most of it. Even before all of this they kill about 80 civilians a year. They recently crippled an innocent little girl, a Christian Palestinian, actually. Do you approve of crippling little girls?

SpursFan4Life · Jan 7, 2009

JayJ44 said:
This is really getting us nowhere, but I'll try again...
Do you understand Farsi? Do you speak it, and understand what the Iranian President says straight from his mouth? If not, you need to be very careful about the way people are translated.

You speak Farsi?

I don't know what you mean about a "double standard" but he has nothing against Jews. He has something again Israel. Most informed, fair, and compassionate people do. You're not going to convince me that he hates Jews, because it isn't true, and really, it's a ridiculous argument used by Jews to try to make arguments against them go away. They call other Jews who are against zionism anti-semites, even the really religious ones, so obviously it has no meaning, which is unfortunate because some people in this world really ARE anti-semites. It's like the boy who cried wolf.

Can you provide evidence of jews using the "anti-semitic" defense against other jews? Can you provide evidence of jews using the "anti-semitic" defense to "make arguments against them go away"? Because if you can't, well then you're actually just a bigot.

Israel has no reason to attack innocent people? They are trying to wipe out the Palestinian people!

*sigh* Are you really this dumb?

Isn't that obvious? They believe that "there can be no Palestine if there are no more Palestinians."

Again, this is one of the more idiotic things I've read. Maybe you should stop listening to this "uncle" and think for yourself. Try reason and logic.

Isn't that reason enough?

It would be if it wasn't completely and utterly ludicrous.

Did the Nazis have any REASON to attack innocents? No, but that didn't stop them.

Ah the Israelis are Nazis. Gotcha. Send your Uncle our regards.

Israel fires inaccurately? First of all, is that an excuse? If I fire rockets at your neighbor's house and hit your house instead, and I say oops, didn't mean to hit you, I'm an inaccurate shooter, does that absolve my guilt?

no

I think not. Second, they are able to target specific cars holding leaders they want to assassinate, so I don't believe that they are inaccurate. I believe they use this as an excuse.

Clearly you don't have detailed knowledge of their military and its systems. Oh wait! None of us do.

I've said it before, Hamas DOES NOT put rockets in civilian sectors.

Um, yes they do. There is documented evidence of it.

Sure, they live near civilian sectors. If my neighbor happens to be a criminal, should I have to die for that? Also, this assumes Hamas are criminals, something I think is highly questionable.

I guess murdering civilians isn't a crime in your mind?

And where do you think CNN gets their information from? No one is allowed into Gaza, so how did they get this idea? They didn't see it for themselves. Hmm, maybe ISRAEL?

If they get it from Israel, they are bound to say they got it from Israel.

I don't approve of suicide bombings, but looking at them in isolation is completely counter-productive. They are the result of constant Israeli aggression. Too bad US news doesn't report most of it. Even before all of this they kill about 80 civilians a year. They recently crippled an innocent little girl, a Christian Palestinian, actually. Do you approve of crippling little girls?

hahaha so in the end you do approve of them.

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