starky your reading selectively. I never said every player took decades, i was speaking in terms of larry brown. pat riley is one of the top coaches of all time, and won titles with jabbar, shaq, wade, magic johnson, worthy, and took the knicks to the finals with ewing oakley, starks, and so on and so forth, you are judging mike D in comparison to those coaches based on the squad we have now haha. I just dont get it
so lets break this down
john starksy or whateva.
your telling me that if mike D coached the magic johnson run lakers, they wouldnt win a title ?????
or how about if we had shaq 4 yrs younger, and an on fire D Wade, mike d wouldnt be able to coach this team to the finals
or if our starting line up was a prime B wallace, r wallace, rip ham, billups ( in mvp form) and T prince a long fast athletic shot blocking small fwd, we wouldnt be a 56 win team this year.
my whole point to my post was that we are analyzing a coach who has role players for a team, and are displaying the audacity to compare him to nba coach royalty after one season ..
basically, your arguments are null.
void and omitted by any one who knows anything about basketball.
end of story.
why argue with him guys? we all know D'Antoni is a good coach, he just wants attention
Pat Riley would of had a championship with the Knicks but ran into bad luck.The Charles Smith blunder in game 5 of the 93' Eastern Conference finals, Olajuwon's blocked shot in game 6 of the 94' NBA finals,Reggie Miller's two three pointers in the final seconds of game 1 of the 95' Eastern conference semi finals and Patrick Ewing's missed layup in game 7 of the same series.
When Lenny Wilkins was coaching the Knicks they were already battered from the previous years but he still lead them to the playoffs despite the fact that Isiah Thomas traded away two of their better players in Michael Doleac and Keith Van Horn.
Mike Fratello never coached the Knicks but has been able to do a lot more with a lot less talent than D'antoni had in Phoenix.
Like I mentioned in a previous post, Larry Brown wasn't given the opportunity to shine in NY.I was extremely happy when the Knicks first gave him that contract and became disappointed after he was fired.A lot of Knick fans like to forget that they too were all giddy about the hiring of Larry Brown when it took place a few years ago but now they like to rip the guy apart and put him in the same category as coach Bill Hanzlik.
I wasn't too sold on Phil Jackson.He has never been able to win a championship without at least having two of the best players in the league on his teams,has never coached a bad team and would of not coached the Knicks to an NBA championship with the poor decisions that Jim Dolan was making in the past.
Okay so according to you nobody is allowed to have a different opinion from yours because it will make them an idiot?
Noone is looking for a scapegoat, D'antoni is just not a championship coach.Most Knick fans are in denial about it because they always like to praise mediocrity at it's finest and confuse it for greatness. I know it might hurt your feelings to realize something like that but it's true.
When Mike D'antoni left the Suns they didn't completely fall off, they were still a number of games above .500 and always in the playoff hunt.If they would be sitting in the Western conference standings with a similar record as the Clippers or the Grizzlies than you have a valid point there.The reason why Steve Kerr didn't bring back D'antoni after last season was because he believed that his team had the ability to play solid defense and knew that D'Antoni wasn't going to teach those players how to do that.Little did he know that his team wasn't built to play defense and that the players weren't going to be happy about playing a different style.Terry Porter was fired because the Suns weren't heading in the right direction as a team.The reason why Kerr went back to the run and gun philosophy was because it was the only way that the team had any chace of making the playoffs this season and at the same time keeping the players on the team happy, it wasn't because Steve Kerr so missed Mike D'antoni and his style of coaching, Steve Kerr had no choice but to go back to what the Suns players were capable of doing.
Larry Brown has an NBA coaching record of 1035-835,47+ win seasons with 6 different NBA teams, and has a championship ring.It's an insult to even put Mike D'antoni's name next to his.He wasn't even given a chance while he was in NY.When he was here he had a head case in Stephon Marbury and a number of players that didn't like being told what to do because they were self centered and cared little about playing for their coach.I'm sure that if he would of still been coaching with the Knicks they would of made the playoffs at least twice.
You need to pay more attention to what's happening around the league.The Sixers fired Maurice Cheeks and they have improved their record since.The Phoenix Suns fired Terry Porter and they look like a much better team right now.
I agree with you that this team lacks a big man that can block shots and guard other centers but giving up 37 points in the 4th quarter,allowing a guy to score 24 points in the same quarter,and the inability to hold opponents under 110 points almost every game is never going to get this team far even if they had a center or a superstar player.
Yes I am completely disgusted with Jim Dolan and the way he has handled this franchise for the last decade.Infact my disgust goes back to the Ewing days when they had such a great team but failed to bring home a championship.Any Knick fan that says that they don't have any frustration in them is either lying or isn't a true Knicks fan at all.For so long this franchise has been an embarrassment to it's fans and to it's city.Because of this I believe that every Knick fan has the right to complain and be disgusted with their team until they win a championship, the fact that the Knicks have a coach right now that is far from a championship coach shouldn't be anything to be excited about.
I know what you and a lot of the Knick fans on this forum are probably thinking, "How can this guy be so negative and bashful about Mike D'antoni? He's not a bad coach,he has a good winning percentage, brings excitement to Madison Square Garden,players love him, builds team chemistry, is coaching a team with limited talent to play their hearts out every game, and is a tremendous upgrade to Isiah Thomas."
I understand the qualities that he brings to the Knicks and I don't hate Mike D'antoni just because I have nothing better to do and want to pick on him.The problem that I have with him is that his negatives seem to out weigh his positives when it comes to winning an NBA championship.He had 3 chances to beat the San Antonio Spurs and wasn't able to get it done once.I am one of those Knick fans that would trade almost anything that I poccess in order to see the NYK win an NBA title during my lifetime.I don't want to see the Knicks make the NBA finals in 2011 or 2012 to then lose to the Lakers or whoever would be the best team during those years.They're coaches in the NBA like Greg Poppavich,Mike Brown,Doc Rivers, and Scott Skiles that will coach defense for years to come.Mike D'Antoni could be a much better coach if he simply adjusted his game plan.
I'm not going to give a morality lecture in an NBA forum but people who don't know how to attack a topic but rather choose to be disrespectful and personally attack the individual are the biggest fools on the internet.
I know what you and a lot of the Knick fans on this forum are probably thinking, "How can this guy be so negative and bashful about Mike D'antoni? He's not a bad coach,he has a good winning percentage, brings excitement to Madison Square Garden,players love him, builds team chemistry, is coaching a team with limited talent to play their hearts out every game, and is a tremendous upgrade to Isiah Thomas."
Complaining is one thing. Complaining unreasonably is another.
You can't put years of failure on D'antoni. And let's talk about this whole "Championship" coach thing. How many titles does a coach have before he gets his first one?
NONE. As obvious as that sounds, people miss that. You don't need a ring to be a good coach.
The Suns, under D'antoni, not winning a title should not be big as a blemish as people should make it out to be. The Spurs eliminated the Suns every year. Like the Lakers did to the Kings, and the Bulls to our beloved Knicks. Some teams are just superior to others. Hey I think Coach needs to tweak his coaching. BUT HE WAS THE BEST AVAILABLE. Secondly, Walsh seems to do what he wants best for the team even though Mike might disagrees, so that might solves the problem of Mike building the team. But come on. Firing him now. In the words of Christian Bale:
"THINK FOR ONE F***ING SECOND....THE THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING??!!!"
You can complain that this team blew a lead, but honestly, D-wade is a special player, if we cant stop Kobe and Lebron, you think D-Wade was gonna be easy.
And please, I know the league. And I know this team. I do not praise mediocrity. Where that came from.
What do you guys expect when the team just win 23 games the year before. It takes time. You actually think this team under Phil Jackson would win a championship. Doc Rivers? What is it that you're looking for?
Its like asking the President to fix the economy within his first 100 days. It takes more time that. A plan can be set in motion but the results take time.
The Knicks failure were never a simple problem. The primary major problem was management. The poor choices of management past since the Ewing trade (are you paying attention, cuz I am) has set this franchise back. It was bad decision after bad decision. The poor choice of player personnel. The likes of Othello Harrington, Clarence Weatherspoon, Shandon Anderson, Mike Sweetney, Steve Francis, Jalen Rose, Malik Rose, Jerome James. I mean damn, what do you expect this year when all of this happened.
Dont forget we were always above the cap with a record not bad enough to win a # 1 pick. That is the wost position but that is what we were for the last decade. No cap room to sign a player that would change this franchise.
Its a new coach, new management, let's see where it goes. So far I see a team playing hard. The players make too many mistakes, Yes which pisses me off. But I know this team as presently constituted will not win a championship so I must wait to see what Donnie does.
As much as you hate to admit it, the players win the games, not the coach, that's why you change the roster. Oh please Larry Brown. Yea he's good, but not here. Even a championship team like the Pistons wanted him out.
Fam, your arguments are without merit and should be dismissed for failure to support a claim without sound facts.
Bottom line, to fire D'antoni now is a idiotic move, which makes one an idiot for thinking it. The lack of Finals appearance much less a title alone should not be a determination for hiring a coach, because smart teams keep their championship coaches, thus none were available to the Knicks. I am a smart Knicks fan. I know you don't win over night. You just hope a team just gets better and better and if they dont you look for management to make moves. We are lining ourselves up for 2010. We may not land that big names but being fiscally healthy is key to a successful franchise, which what we lacked the past 10 years.
MIKE BROWN, never won a championship, Scott Skiles never reached the conference finals.
I may digress on the idiot comment to you personally, but the idea remains IDIOTIC, DUMB, and just a quick fix. Just typical of a Dolan move.
Oh and Pat Riley didn't win those Laker titles with his hat hung on defense. He had an offensive powerhouse who were also excellent defenders. It wasnt untill he came here that he was known as defensive coach. By the was his defense brought no championship here so you lack merit.
Now in 2011 or '12 who says that this wont play defense. Speculating championship now, is not good when were are in the 11th spot.
good points yeah I forgot Jackson wouldn't have even came to the Knicks because Ewing didn't want it. But imagine had he taken over the team after '99 with Houston and Sprewell, young Camby and good leadership of LJ, Ward and Childs.
No, more like we need a Center.
D'Antoni was just hired.
And, why do you keep posting in this thread?
:whack::whack::whack:
no matter what face it, D'Antoni will be here for at least 5 years
_______√ictory_______;87360 said::lol: all ready....
I would wait until after the 2011-12 to fire him.
\If youre going to say something like that what was the point in you making this thread now?
I wasn't holding D'antoni responsible for the Knick failures of the last 10 years.I blame James Dolan for the mismanagement of the Knicks.
I never said that Mike D'antoni wasn't a good coach my argument is that he isn't a great coach.Great coaches are the ones that can coach the right group of guys towards a championship.
The Spurs elminated the Suns because they played defense and the Suns weren't always eliminated by the Spurs under D'antoni, they had a chance to get to the Finals without having to get through the Spurs in the 2006 playoffs but were elminated by the Dallas Mavericks.If it was just a San Antonio Spurs issue for the Suns they would of easily won a championship that year.
Rick Adelman is another example of a good coach that isn't a great coach.He was given the right players in Portland,Sacramento, and Houston, was very close to winning a championship on a number of occasions but was never able to get it done.
Mike D'antoni wasn't the best available for Donnie Walsh to hire.After he fired Isiah Thomas he had Avery Johnson and Scott Skiles available but chose to go with the more popular coach instead of the more reasonable one.Donnie Walsh contradicted himself after stating that the Knicks needed to get back to being a team that was built around defense.I wasn't asking for Walsh to bring in a coach that already won a championship with another team but a coach that if given the right team he would have a better chance to win a title with that team than D'antoni would.
I am in no way desiring for Walsh to fire Mike D'antoni right at this moment.It would be foolish to tear down the foundation of a house that hasn't been fully constructed yet but once D'antoni is given the best New York Knicks team that he can get his hands on and still fails to win a championship then he deserves the pink slip.
I don't expect this team to get anywhere,not with this deformed roster but I expect them to play better defense.They might not have the defensive players of a championship team but in their wins this year against the Spurs,Rockets, Hawks, and Celtics they actually played real defense in the 4th quarter.Why should they even think about trying to out score Dwayne Wade in the 4th quarter on the road when all they needed to do was double or triple team him.
I could write a whole book about the mistakes of James Dolan and the decline of the New York Knicks after the Ewing era.Every die hard Knick fan has suffered through years of having their team be the side show of professional sports and are still going through the recovery from the damage.I am not an ungrateful Knick fan that is choosing not to be content with the overall improvement of the Knicks as a team and as a franchise.I just don't want to get my hopes up high as a Knick fan to then watch this organization be a couple of mistakes away from going another 35 plus years without winning a championship.