Fire D'antoni!!!
- Thread starter johnstarky
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johnstarky
Rotation player
I wasn't comparing this Knick team to the teams that Pat Riley coached in LA,NY and Miami.I was comparing Mike D's style of coaching to that of Larry Brown,Pat Riley and Greg Poppavich.And I mentioned D'antoni's Phoenix Suns a hundred times in my post.He had the right players to win a championship but never wasn't even able to lead them to the NBA finals.Even Avery Johnson's Mavericks were able to advance further during D'antoni's era in Phoenix.
You obviously are not aware of the concept that Defense wins championships not good players that are coached to run up and down the court in an attempt to out score their opponent.You could make D'antoni the coach of the 1995-96 Bulls and I guarentee you that he would of not won a championship with that team.Give him the 72' Lakers and a more hungry team at the defensive end would of stopped them easily.
I'm not saying that D'antoni wouldn't win 60 games a season with the right players on his team but until he learns how to make defense his priority instead of offense, he will never be a championship coach.
johnstarky
Rotation player
I know what you and a lot of the Knick fans on this forum are probably thinking, "How can this guy be so negative and bashful about Mike D'antoni? He's not a bad coach,he has a good winning percentage, brings excitement to Madison Square Garden,players love him, builds team chemistry, is coaching a team with limited talent to play their hearts out every game, and is a tremendous upgrade to Isiah Thomas."
I understand the qualities that he brings to the Knicks and I don't hate Mike D'antoni just because I have nothing better to do and want to pick on him.The problem that I have with him is that his negatives seem to out weigh his positives when it comes to winning an NBA championship.He had 3 chances to beat the San Antonio Spurs and wasn't able to get it done once.I am one of those Knick fans that would trade almost anything that I poccess in order to see the NYK win an NBA title during my lifetime.I don't want to see the Knicks make the NBA finals in 2011 or 2012 to then lose to the Lakers or whoever would be the best team during those years.They're coaches in the NBA like Greg Poppavich,Mike Brown,Doc Rivers, and Scott Skiles that will coach defense for years to come.Mike D'Antoni could be a much better coach if he simply adjusted his game plan.
I'm not going to give a morality lecture in an NBA forum but people who don't know how to attack a topic but rather choose to be disrespectful and personally attack the individual are the biggest fools on the internet.
quiggle
Starter
good points yeah I forgot Jackson wouldn't have even came to the Knicks because Ewing didn't want it. But imagine had he taken over the team after '99 with Houston and Sprewell, young Camby and good leadership of LJ, Ward and Childs.
Complaining is one thing. Complaining unreasonably is another.
You can't put years of failure on D'antoni. And let's talk about this whole "Championship" coach thing. How many titles does a coach have before he gets his first one?
NONE. As obvious as that sounds, people miss that. You don't need a ring to be a good coach.
The Suns, under D'antoni, not winning a title should not be big as a blemish as people should make it out to be. The Spurs eliminated the Suns every year. Like the Lakers did to the Kings, and the Bulls to our beloved Knicks. Some teams are just superior to others. Hey I think Coach needs to tweak his coaching. BUT HE WAS THE BEST AVAILABLE. Secondly, Walsh seems to do what he wants best for the team even though Mike might disagrees, so that might solves the problem of Mike building the team. But come on. Firing him now. In the words of Christian Bale:
"THINK FOR ONE F***ING SECOND....THE THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING??!!!"
You can complain that this team blew a lead, but honestly, D-wade is a special player, if we cant stop Kobe and Lebron, you think D-Wade was gonna be easy.
And please, I know the league. And I know this team. I do not praise mediocrity. Where that came from.
What do you guys expect when the team just win 23 games the year before. It takes time. You actually think this team under Phil Jackson would win a championship. Doc Rivers? What is it that you're looking for?
Its like asking the President to fix the economy within his first 100 days. It takes more time that. A plan can be set in motion but the results take time.
The Knicks failure were never a simple problem. The primary major problem was management. The poor choices of management past since the Ewing trade (are you paying attention, cuz I am) has set this franchise back. It was bad decision after bad decision. The poor choice of player personnel. The likes of Othello Harrington, Clarence Weatherspoon, Shandon Anderson, Mike Sweetney, Steve Francis, Jalen Rose, Malik Rose, Jerome James. I mean damn, what do you expect this year when all of this happened.
Dont forget we were always above the cap with a record not bad enough to win a # 1 pick. That is the wost position but that is what we were for the last decade. No cap room to sign a player that would change this franchise.
Its a new coach, new management, let's see where it goes. So far I see a team playing hard. The players make too many mistakes, Yes which pisses me off. But I know this team as presently constituted will not win a championship so I must wait to see what Donnie does.
As much as you hate to admit it, the players win the games, not the coach, that's why you change the roster. Oh please Larry Brown. Yea he's good, but not here. Even a championship team like the Pistons wanted him out.
Fam, your arguments are without merit and should be dismissed for failure to support a claim without sound facts.
Bottom line, to fire D'antoni now is a idiotic move, which makes one an idiot for thinking it. The lack of Finals appearance much less a title alone should not be a determination for hiring a coach, because smart teams keep their championship coaches, thus none were available to the Knicks. I am a smart Knicks fan. I know you don't win over night. You just hope a team just gets better and better and if they dont you look for management to make moves. We are lining ourselves up for 2010. We may not land that big names but being fiscally healthy is key to a successful franchise, which what we lacked the past 10 years.
MIKE BROWN, never won a championship, Scott Skiles never reached the conference finals.
I may digress on the idiot comment to you personally, but the idea remains IDIOTIC, DUMB, and just a quick fix. Just typical of a Dolan move.
Oh and Pat Riley didn't win those Laker titles with his hat hung on defense. He had an offensive powerhouse who were also excellent defenders. It wasnt untill he came here that he was known as defensive coach. By the was his defense brought no championship here so you lack merit.
Now in 2011 or '12 who says that this wont play defense. Speculating championship now, is not good when were are in the 11th spot.
Red
TYPE-A
No, more like we need a Center.
D'Antoni was just hired.
And, why do you keep posting in this thread?
:whack::whack::whack:
johnstarky
Rotation player
I wasn't holding D'antoni responsible for the Knick failures of the last 10 years.I blame James Dolan for the mismanagement of the Knicks.
I never said that Mike D'antoni wasn't a good coach my argument is that he isn't a great coach.Great coaches are the ones that can coach the right group of guys towards a championship.
The Spurs elminated the Suns because they played defense and the Suns weren't always eliminated by the Spurs under D'antoni, they had a chance to get to the Finals without having to get through the Spurs in the 2006 playoffs but were elminated by the Dallas Mavericks.If it was just a San Antonio Spurs issue for the Suns they would of easily won a championship that year.
Rick Adelman is another example of a good coach that isn't a great coach.He was given the right players in Portland,Sacramento, and Houston, was very close to winning a championship on a number of occasions but was never able to get it done.
Mike D'antoni wasn't the best available for Donnie Walsh to hire.After he fired Isiah Thomas he had Avery Johnson and Scott Skiles available but chose to go with the more popular coach instead of the more reasonable one.Donnie Walsh contradicted himself after stating that the Knicks needed to get back to being a team that was built around defense.I wasn't asking for Walsh to bring in a coach that already won a championship with another team but a coach that if given the right team he would have a better chance to win a title with that team than D'antoni would.
I am in no way desiring for Walsh to fire Mike D'antoni right at this moment.It would be foolish to tear down the foundation of a house that hasn't been fully constructed yet but once D'antoni is given the best New York Knicks team that he can get his hands on and still fails to win a championship then he deserves the pink slip.
I don't expect this team to get anywhere,not with this deformed roster but I expect them to play better defense.They might not have the defensive players of a championship team but in their wins this year against the Spurs,Rockets, Hawks, and Celtics they actually played real defense in the 4th quarter.Why should they even think about trying to out score Dwayne Wade in the 4th quarter on the road when all they needed to do was double or triple team him.
I could write a whole book about the mistakes of James Dolan and the decline of the New York Knicks after the Ewing era.Every die hard Knick fan has suffered through years of having their team be the side show of professional sports and are still going through the recovery from the damage.I am not an ungrateful Knick fan that is choosing not to be content with the overall improvement of the Knicks as a team and as a franchise.I just don't want to get my hopes up high as a Knick fan to then watch this organization be a couple of mistakes away from going another 35 plus years without winning a championship.
johnstarky
Rotation player
Mike Brown might not have a championship now but if I were a Cleveland Cavaliers fan I would feel more confidant having him as my coach than I would D'antoni.The guy has only been in the league for 4 seasons,has one NBA finals appearance and might win a championship this year.
Scott Skiles didn't reach the conference finals because the teams that he coached were above average teams.Look at what he's doing right now with a Milwaukee Bucks team that has been hit with the injury bug and was suppose to underachieve this year.
When I brought up Pat Riley and the great teams he coached, my argument was that if D'antoni was given a great team to coach I don't think he would be able to win a championship with them.
I'm hoping that if D'antoni is still here in 2011 and 2012 he would be a better coach at the defensive end.
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johnstarky
Rotation player
Sorry for taking a couple of days to respond to your thread.I usually never like to leave anyone hanging.
Now that you bring that up, in the 1999-2000 Eastern Conference finals the Knicks were a couple of wins away from eliminating the Indiana Pacers and making another finals appearance.They probably would of gotten swept or lost in 5 games to the Lakers had they made the finals.I probably take too much credit away from Phil Jackson because he was never able to win a championship without Shaq on the Lakers and without MJ on the Bulls but who knows what he could of done with the Knicks and the team you just mentioned.As coach of the Knicks he definitely would of been able to advance a lot further than Van Gundy did and I doubt that the Lakers would of made the finals if Kurt Rambis would of still been their coach.My guess was that if Jackson would of been coaching the Knicks then the 2000 NBA finals would of been the Knicks vs the TrailBlazers.But I'm just speculating here.
Would of been an interesting match up to watch but that Portland team was too talented for the Knicks to beat.They had a starting lineup which consisted of Arvydas Sabonis at Center, Rasheed Wallace at PF, Scottie Pippen SF, Damon Stoudamire at PG and a bench that was loaded with talented players such as Jermaine O'neal, Bonzi Wells, and Brian Grant.That team could of had a couple of championships with a better coach.
After Van Gundy resigned as Knick head coach, the quick fixes that destroyed this franchise began to unravel.Had Phil Jackson been coach after December of 2001 I don't think Dolan would of made the disastrous moves that he desperately went to.
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johnstarky
Rotation player
Yes we need a center, yes this team needs a true PG, yes they need a star player and better talent.I never disagree with that at all.
Like I mentioned before, I am not asking for the firing of D'antoni with 23 games left to go in his first NBA season with the Knicks.
I keep posting in this thread because one, I created this thread and people keep responding to my posts.So I will continue responding to their posts.Is that not what being in a forum all about ?
_______√ictory_______
Benchwarmer
:lol: all ready....
th3realicon
Rotation player
Fire D'antoni? Yeah sure since we are at it lets fire Donnie Walsh too. Lets give Isiah a new multi year double digits contract extension. Order him to trade our dranft picks for the next 10 years for Marbury. Have him ship Lee and Nate to GS for Jamal Crawford. Trade Gallinari and Chandler for Zbo and tell a couple of interns to get in the fvcking truck. Marbury's track that is.
johnstarky
Rotation player
NYK have had 6 different coaches the last 6 seasons you sure you want to make such a prediction?
johnstarky
Rotation player
_______√ictory_______;87360 said:
I would wait until after the 2011-12 to fire him.
StreetDreams21
I got Soul
\If youre going to say something like that what was the point in you making this thread now?
johnstarky
Rotation player
Don't worry, if the Knicks don't win a championship in the next 5 years I will bump this thread.I just wanted to let people know that I was never sold on the whole D'antoni hype.
You're backtracking in your argument now. No, Adelman and D'antoni, might not be Championship coaches but they win.
The Knicks first problem was their losing culture. The way things were ran the past few years were pathetic. Layden, Isiah, and Marbury had losing mentalities. Meaning they may not have had the winning players around them but their attitude was very me first for their glory. You might lose a lot but you wouldn't be viewed as a "loser" if you took like a champion.
The driving forces of the Knicks were losers.
Now with Walsh and D'antoni we have hope. Walsh is a smart man. D'antoni's system is entertaining and keeps the Knicks in games most of the time. We are competitive even though we find ways to lose. But it does make the Knicks attractive and I think that's why Walsh was brought here so that it could by him some time.
Walsh is doing everything right. Its all about 2010 and being fiscally healthy. Now we may not get any Wades or Lebrons but being financially ready is key.
Now D'antoni may change his ways who knows. Pat Riley had to when he came to the Knicks.
Walsh is going to build the team that will win championships and defense will be his priority and by the time D'antoni contract is up Walsh would probably have his team and would ask Mike do show up or shut up.
In Phoenix, Mike was winning and Kerr came in the middle of the year and started changing stuff around without and regard that Mike was there longer and he was doing his thing. Mike felt disrespected and left.
Here Walsh brought him in and Walsh has more leverage. If Walsh wants a different direction Mike will have to abide by it or go.
But in the mean time it is too early and this roster is too flawed for any coach, championship or not to win with.
Does anyone see any strategy in Dantoni's coaching?
I dont.
Will the lack of defense in Dantoni's coaching have super stars lining up to sign with the Knicks in 2010?
Super Stars like going to the FINALS....a place Dantoni career is not going without a defensive coordinator on his staff.
Coach Dantoni have a powerful Defensive Starting Backcourt in Duhon, Hughes, and Jefferies....if Dantoni can not show a stratical-defensive plan with that "Trio" of defensive players (this season)....than getting Dantoni a shotblocking center is a waste of time.
Coach Dantoni have one great quality on his side....his coach to player relationship seems great in the Knicks lockerroom....but it does nothing for Dantoni's 2nd half coaching-plan which is non-existing.
We like the effort that we see now from the Knick Players....the players come to play for coach Dantoni....however the Knick players are playing without any coaching strategy or plan to break down oponents system.
Our Players dont have a clue when to foul and when not to foul....its the same as when to pick and when not to pick "Lee n Duhon" pick n roll messed-up after a time-out of discussing a design play.
There is no excuse for that wide open turnover.
I dont.
Will the lack of defense in Dantoni's coaching have super stars lining up to sign with the Knicks in 2010?
Super Stars like going to the FINALS....a place Dantoni career is not going without a defensive coordinator on his staff.
Coach Dantoni have a powerful Defensive Starting Backcourt in Duhon, Hughes, and Jefferies....if Dantoni can not show a stratical-defensive plan with that "Trio" of defensive players (this season)....than getting Dantoni a shotblocking center is a waste of time.
Coach Dantoni have one great quality on his side....his coach to player relationship seems great in the Knicks lockerroom....but it does nothing for Dantoni's 2nd half coaching-plan which is non-existing.
We like the effort that we see now from the Knick Players....the players come to play for coach Dantoni....however the Knick players are playing without any coaching strategy or plan to break down oponents system.
Our Players dont have a clue when to foul and when not to foul....its the same as when to pick and when not to pick "Lee n Duhon" pick n roll messed-up after a time-out of discussing a design play.
There is no excuse for that wide open turnover.