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Thread: Fire D'antoni!!!

  1. #76
    Superstar johnstarky's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    Since Mike D'antoni has been in the league:

    Greg Popavich= 3 championships

    Larry Brown= 1 championship

    Pat Riley= 1 championship

    Doc Rivers=1 championship

    Mike D'antoni= ZERO CHAMPIONSHIPS!! Without one NBA finals appearance


    Now what were you saying about D'antoni being the best coach in the NBA? Did you mean best coach in the locker room?

    dude what r u talking about mike D has been in the league 6 years. and your comparing him to greg pop, patt riley, and larry brown.

    larry brown won with one of the best starting fives to play over the past decade,

    greg pop, manu. tim duncan, parker ( hall of famers)

    pat riley ( payton, shaq, wade, and a week eastern conference to get there other than the pistons )

    I Cant believe your comparing mike d who had to conference finals appearences and a 60 win team in the western conference to these other coaches who in some respects took decades to win their first title, and in 6 yrs, he won how many games.

    JUST PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD STOP THIS NONSENSE i dont know if its that most of you are really young and dont know what your talking about, or your just really bored. but this stupidity has got to stop


    Pat Riley won a championship in his first year as head coach,won 4 championships in his first 7 years in the NBA, has taken 3 different NBA teams to the finals,has 5 NBA rings and would have 6 right now if not for his one mistake in the 1994 finals, which was the refusal of benching John Starks in game 7.I am going to cut D'antoni a little slack on comparing him to Riley because those Laker teams that Riley coached were no where in the same league as D'antoni's Phoenix Suns.

    It only took Coach Popovich 3 seasons to win an NBA championship.Something that Coach Bob Hill wasn't able to previously do with David Robinson and a good Spurs team.

    Mike D'antoni had Amare,Shaq,Nash,Joe Johnson and Marion, and still couldn't make one finals appearance.

    During Larry Brown's first NBA year he won 50 games with the Denver Nuggets in a very tough league at the time.Mike D'antoni led the Suns to 50+ win seasons in a much easier league, in which there were fewer great defensive teams, fewer hall of fame type players and the weakest eastern conference of all time.If the Pistons were such a great team without Larry Brown, why couldn't Coach Saunders win a title with the same group of players? Where have the Pistons been since the departure of Larry brown?They have been disintergrating year after year.

    All it takes is an NBA team with at least 2 all-stars and a mediocre coach to win 50 games and make a couple of conference finals appearances in today's league.You make Mike D'antoni an NBA coach in any previous decade and he wouldn't survive for one full season.

    So you have to be at least age 40 or above to know whether Mike D'antoni is a great coach or not? Geez that's a new one!

  2. #77
    Veteran TunerAddict's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johnstarky
    Pat Riley won a championship in his first year as head coach,won 4 championships in his first 7 years in the NBA, has taken 3 different NBA teams to the finals,has 5 NBA rings and would have 6 right now if not for his one mistake in the 1994 finals, which was the refusal of benching John Starks in game 7.I am going to cut D'antoni a little slack on comparing him to Riley because those Laker teams that Riley coached were no where in the same league as D'antoni's Phoenix Suns.

    It only took Coach Popovich 3 seasons to win an NBA championship.Something that Coach Bob Hill wasn't able to previously do with David Robinson and a good Spurs team.

    Mike D'antoni had Amare,Shaq,Nash,Joe Johnson and Marion, and still couldn't make one finals appearance.

    During Larry Brown's first NBA year he won 50 games with the Denver Nuggets in a very tough league at the time.Mike D'antoni led the Suns to 50+ win seasons in a much easier league, in which there were fewer great defensive teams, fewer hall of fame type players and the weakest eastern conference of all time.If the Pistons were such a great team without Larry Brown, why couldn't Coach Saunders win a title with the same group of players? Where have the Pistons been since the departure of Larry brown?They have been disintergrating year after year.

    All it takes is an NBA team with at least 2 all-stars and a mediocre coach to win 50 games and make a couple of conference finals appearances in today's league.You make Mike D'antoni an NBA coach in any previous decade and he wouldn't survive for one full season.

    So you have to be at least age 40 or above to know whether Mike D'antoni is a great coach or not? Geez that's a new one!
    Pistons were a better team when Brown left. They kept their defense but improved their offense under Flip Saunders...

  3. #78
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    Originally Posted by quiggle
    how do the Knicks have some of the greatest coaches in Pat Riley, Lenny Wilkens, Mike Fratello and Larry Brown yet they have nothing to show for it? I wonder what the direction of the franchise would have become had we made a serious offer for Phil Jackson and gotten rid of Van Gundy.

    Pat Riley would of had a championship with the Knicks but ran into bad luck.The Charles Smith blunder in game 5 of the 93' Eastern Conference finals, Olajuwon's blocked shot in game 6 of the 94' NBA finals,Reggie Miller's two three pointers in the final seconds of game 1 of the 95' Eastern conference semi finals and Patrick Ewing's missed layup in game 7 of the same series.

    When Lenny Wilkins was coaching the Knicks they were already battered from the previous years but he still lead them to the playoffs despite the fact that Isiah Thomas traded away two of their better players in Michael Doleac and Keith Van Horn.

    Mike Fratello never coached the Knicks but has been able to do a lot more with a lot less talent than D'antoni had in Phoenix.

    Like I mentioned in a previous post, Larry Brown wasn't given the opportunity to shine in NY.I was extremely happy when the Knicks first gave him that contract and became disappointed after he was fired.A lot of Knick fans like to forget that they too were all giddy about the hiring of Larry Brown when it took place a few years ago but now they like to rip the guy apart and put him in the same category as coach Bill Hanzlik.

    I wasn't too sold on Phil Jackson.He has never been able to win a championship without at least having two of the best players in the league on his teams,has never coached a bad team and would of not coached the Knicks to an NBA championship with the poor decisions that Jim Dolan was making in the past.

  4. #79
    Veteran DontForgetDerekHarper's Avatar
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    starky your reading selectively. I never said every player took decades, i was speaking in terms of larry brown. pat riley is one of the top coaches of all time, and won titles with jabbar, shaq, wade, magic johnson, worthy, and took the knicks to the finals with ewing oakley, starks, and so on and so forth, you are judging mike D in comparison to those coaches based on the squad we have now haha. I just dont get it


    so lets break this down

    john starksy or whateva.

    your telling me that if mike D coached the magic johnson run lakers, they wouldnt win a title ?????

    or how about if we had shaq 4 yrs younger, and an on fire D Wade, mike d wouldnt be able to coach this team to the finals

    or if our starting line up was a prime B wallace, r wallace, rip ham, billups ( in mvp form) and T prince a long fast athletic shot blocking small fwd, we wouldnt be a 56 win team this year.

    my whole point to my post was that we are analyzing a coach who has role players for a team, and are displaying the audacity to compare him to nba coach royalty after one season ..

    basically, your arguments are null.
    void and omitted by any one who knows anything about basketball.

    end of story.

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    Originally Posted by TunerAddict
    Pistons were a better team when Brown left. They kept their defense but improved their offense under Flip Saunders...
    They never kept their defense under Saunders especially during the 3 times they were in the Eastern Conference Finals.

    In his first year with the Pistons they lost in 6 games to a Miami Heat team that they previously beat the year before.

    In his second year, the Pistons were up 2-0 against the Cavs and allowed them to come back and win the series,everyone knew that the Pistons should of doubled Lebron James when he was going on an offensive outburst in game 5 of that series,Larry Brown would of never allowed such a thing like that to happen.

    In his third year, they lost to the Celtics and by then Joe Dumars realized that Flip Saunders wasn't the right coach for them.

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    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    why argue with him guys? we all know D'Antoni is a good coach, he just wants attention

  7. #82
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    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    starky your reading selectively. I never said every player took decades, i was speaking in terms of larry brown. pat riley is one of the top coaches of all time, and won titles with jabbar, shaq, wade, magic johnson, worthy, and took the knicks to the finals with ewing oakley, starks, and so on and so forth, you are judging mike D in comparison to those coaches based on the squad we have now haha. I just dont get it


    so lets break this down

    john starksy or whateva.

    your telling me that if mike D coached the magic johnson run lakers, they wouldnt win a title ?????

    or how about if we had shaq 4 yrs younger, and an on fire D Wade, mike d wouldnt be able to coach this team to the finals

    or if our starting line up was a prime B wallace, r wallace, rip ham, billups ( in mvp form) and T prince a long fast athletic shot blocking small fwd, we wouldnt be a 56 win team this year.

    my whole point to my post was that we are analyzing a coach who has role players for a team, and are displaying the audacity to compare him to nba coach royalty after one season ..

    basically, your arguments are null.
    void and omitted by any one who knows anything about basketball.

    end of story.
    I wasn't comparing this Knick team to the teams that Pat Riley coached in LA,NY and Miami.I was comparing Mike D's style of coaching to that of Larry Brown,Pat Riley and Greg Poppavich.And I mentioned D'antoni's Phoenix Suns a hundred times in my post.He had the right players to win a championship but never wasn't even able to lead them to the NBA finals.Even Avery Johnson's Mavericks were able to advance further during D'antoni's era in Phoenix.

    You obviously are not aware of the concept that Defense wins championships not good players that are coached to run up and down the court in an attempt to out score their opponent.You could make D'antoni the coach of the 1995-96 Bulls and I guarentee you that he would of not won a championship with that team.Give him the 72' Lakers and a more hungry team at the defensive end would of stopped them easily.

    I'm not saying that D'antoni wouldn't win 60 games a season with the right players on his team but until he learns how to make defense his priority instead of offense, he will never be a championship coach.

  8. #83
    Superstar johnstarky's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jpz17
    why argue with him guys? we all know D'Antoni is a good coach, he just wants attention
    I know what you and a lot of the Knick fans on this forum are probably thinking, "How can this guy be so negative and bashful about Mike D'antoni? He's not a bad coach,he has a good winning percentage, brings excitement to Madison Square Garden,players love him, builds team chemistry, is coaching a team with limited talent to play their hearts out every game, and is a tremendous upgrade to Isiah Thomas."

    I understand the qualities that he brings to the Knicks and I don't hate Mike D'antoni just because I have nothing better to do and want to pick on him.The problem that I have with him is that his negatives seem to out weigh his positives when it comes to winning an NBA championship.He had 3 chances to beat the San Antonio Spurs and wasn't able to get it done once.I am one of those Knick fans that would trade almost anything that I poccess in order to see the NYK win an NBA title during my lifetime.I don't want to see the Knicks make the NBA finals in 2011 or 2012 to then lose to the Lakers or whoever would be the best team during those years.They're coaches in the NBA like Greg Poppavich,Mike Brown,Doc Rivers, and Scott Skiles that will coach defense for years to come.Mike D'Antoni could be a much better coach if he simply adjusted his game plan.

    I'm not going to give a morality lecture in an NBA forum but people who don't know how to attack a topic but rather choose to be disrespectful and personally attack the individual are the biggest fools on the internet.

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    Veteran quiggle's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johnstarky
    Pat Riley would of had a championship with the Knicks but ran into bad luck.The Charles Smith blunder in game 5 of the 93' Eastern Conference finals, Olajuwon's blocked shot in game 6 of the 94' NBA finals,Reggie Miller's two three pointers in the final seconds of game 1 of the 95' Eastern conference semi finals and Patrick Ewing's missed layup in game 7 of the same series.

    When Lenny Wilkins was coaching the Knicks they were already battered from the previous years but he still lead them to the playoffs despite the fact that Isiah Thomas traded away two of their better players in Michael Doleac and Keith Van Horn.

    Mike Fratello never coached the Knicks but has been able to do a lot more with a lot less talent than D'antoni had in Phoenix.

    Like I mentioned in a previous post, Larry Brown wasn't given the opportunity to shine in NY.I was extremely happy when the Knicks first gave him that contract and became disappointed after he was fired.A lot of Knick fans like to forget that they too were all giddy about the hiring of Larry Brown when it took place a few years ago but now they like to rip the guy apart and put him in the same category as coach Bill Hanzlik.

    I wasn't too sold on Phil Jackson.He has never been able to win a championship without at least having two of the best players in the league on his teams,has never coached a bad team and would of not coached the Knicks to an NBA championship with the poor decisions that Jim Dolan was making in the past.

    good points yeah I forgot Jackson wouldn't have even came to the Knicks because Ewing didn't want it. But imagine had he taken over the team after '99 with Houston and Sprewell, young Camby and good leadership of LJ, Ward and Childs.

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    Originally Posted by johnstarky
    Okay so according to you nobody is allowed to have a different opinion from yours because it will make them an idiot?

    Noone is looking for a scapegoat, D'antoni is just not a championship coach.Most Knick fans are in denial about it because they always like to praise mediocrity at it's finest and confuse it for greatness. I know it might hurt your feelings to realize something like that but it's true.

    When Mike D'antoni left the Suns they didn't completely fall off, they were still a number of games above .500 and always in the playoff hunt.If they would be sitting in the Western conference standings with a similar record as the Clippers or the Grizzlies than you have a valid point there.The reason why Steve Kerr didn't bring back D'antoni after last season was because he believed that his team had the ability to play solid defense and knew that D'Antoni wasn't going to teach those players how to do that.Little did he know that his team wasn't built to play defense and that the players weren't going to be happy about playing a different style.Terry Porter was fired because the Suns weren't heading in the right direction as a team.The reason why Kerr went back to the run and gun philosophy was because it was the only way that the team had any chace of making the playoffs this season and at the same time keeping the players on the team happy, it wasn't because Steve Kerr so missed Mike D'antoni and his style of coaching, Steve Kerr had no choice but to go back to what the Suns players were capable of doing.

    Larry Brown has an NBA coaching record of 1035-835,47+ win seasons with 6 different NBA teams, and has a championship ring.It's an insult to even put Mike D'antoni's name next to his.He wasn't even given a chance while he was in NY.When he was here he had a head case in Stephon Marbury and a number of players that didn't like being told what to do because they were self centered and cared little about playing for their coach.I'm sure that if he would of still been coaching with the Knicks they would of made the playoffs at least twice.

    You need to pay more attention to what's happening around the league.The Sixers fired Maurice Cheeks and they have improved their record since.The Phoenix Suns fired Terry Porter and they look like a much better team right now.

    I agree with you that this team lacks a big man that can block shots and guard other centers but giving up 37 points in the 4th quarter,allowing a guy to score 24 points in the same quarter,and the inability to hold opponents under 110 points almost every game is never going to get this team far even if they had a center or a superstar player.

    Yes I am completely disgusted with Jim Dolan and the way he has handled this franchise for the last decade.Infact my disgust goes back to the Ewing days when they had such a great team but failed to bring home a championship.Any Knick fan that says that they don't have any frustration in them is either lying or isn't a true Knicks fan at all.For so long this franchise has been an embarrassment to it's fans and to it's city.Because of this I believe that every Knick fan has the right to complain and be disgusted with their team until they win a championship, the fact that the Knicks have a coach right now that is far from a championship coach shouldn't be anything to be excited about.
    Complaining is one thing. Complaining unreasonably is another.

    You can't put years of failure on D'antoni. And let's talk about this whole "Championship" coach thing. How many titles does a coach have before he gets his first one?

    NONE. As obvious as that sounds, people miss that. You don't need a ring to be a good coach.

    The Suns, under D'antoni, not winning a title should not be big as a blemish as people should make it out to be. The Spurs eliminated the Suns every year. Like the Lakers did to the Kings, and the Bulls to our beloved Knicks. Some teams are just superior to others. Hey I think Coach needs to tweak his coaching. BUT HE WAS THE BEST AVAILABLE. Secondly, Walsh seems to do what he wants best for the team even though Mike might disagrees, so that might solves the problem of Mike building the team. But come on. Firing him now. In the words of Christian Bale:

    "THINK FOR ONE F***ING SECOND....THE THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING??!!!"

    You can complain that this team blew a lead, but honestly, D-wade is a special player, if we cant stop Kobe and Lebron, you think D-Wade was gonna be easy.

    And please, I know the league. And I know this team. I do not praise mediocrity. Where that came from.

    What do you guys expect when the team just win 23 games the year before. It takes time. You actually think this team under Phil Jackson would win a championship. Doc Rivers? What is it that you're looking for?

    Its like asking the President to fix the economy within his first 100 days. It takes more time that. A plan can be set in motion but the results take time.

    The Knicks failure were never a simple problem. The primary major problem was management. The poor choices of management past since the Ewing trade (are you paying attention, cuz I am) has set this franchise back. It was bad decision after bad decision. The poor choice of player personnel. The likes of Othello Harrington, Clarence Weatherspoon, Shandon Anderson, Mike Sweetney, Steve Francis, Jalen Rose, Malik Rose, Jerome James. I mean damn, what do you expect this year when all of this happened.

    Dont forget we were always above the cap with a record not bad enough to win a # 1 pick. That is the wost position but that is what we were for the last decade. No cap room to sign a player that would change this franchise.

    Its a new coach, new management, let's see where it goes. So far I see a team playing hard. The players make too many mistakes, Yes which pisses me off. But I know this team as presently constituted will not win a championship so I must wait to see what Donnie does.

    As much as you hate to admit it, the players win the games, not the coach, that's why you change the roster. Oh please Larry Brown. Yea he's good, but not here. Even a championship team like the Pistons wanted him out.

    Fam, your arguments are without merit and should be dismissed for failure to support a claim without sound facts.

    Bottom line, to fire D'antoni now is a idiotic move, which makes one an idiot for thinking it. The lack of Finals appearance much less a title alone should not be a determination for hiring a coach, because smart teams keep their championship coaches, thus none were available to the Knicks. I am a smart Knicks fan. I know you don't win over night. You just hope a team just gets better and better and if they dont you look for management to make moves. We are lining ourselves up for 2010. We may not land that big names but being fiscally healthy is key to a successful franchise, which what we lacked the past 10 years.

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    Originally Posted by johnstarky
    I know what you and a lot of the Knick fans on this forum are probably thinking, "How can this guy be so negative and bashful about Mike D'antoni? He's not a bad coach,he has a good winning percentage, brings excitement to Madison Square Garden,players love him, builds team chemistry, is coaching a team with limited talent to play their hearts out every game, and is a tremendous upgrade to Isiah Thomas."

    I understand the qualities that he brings to the Knicks and I don't hate Mike D'antoni just because I have nothing better to do and want to pick on him.The problem that I have with him is that his negatives seem to out weigh his positives when it comes to winning an NBA championship.He had 3 chances to beat the San Antonio Spurs and wasn't able to get it done once.I am one of those Knick fans that would trade almost anything that I poccess in order to see the NYK win an NBA title during my lifetime.I don't want to see the Knicks make the NBA finals in 2011 or 2012 to then lose to the Lakers or whoever would be the best team during those years.They're coaches in the NBA like Greg Poppavich,Mike Brown,Doc Rivers, and Scott Skiles that will coach defense for years to come.Mike D'Antoni could be a much better coach if he simply adjusted his game plan.

    I'm not going to give a morality lecture in an NBA forum but people who don't know how to attack a topic but rather choose to be disrespectful and personally attack the individual are the biggest fools on the internet.
    MIKE BROWN, never won a championship, Scott Skiles never reached the conference finals.

    I may digress on the idiot comment to you personally, but the idea remains IDIOTIC, DUMB, and just a quick fix. Just typical of a Dolan move.

    Oh and Pat Riley didn't win those Laker titles with his hat hung on defense. He had an offensive powerhouse who were also excellent defenders. It wasnt untill he came here that he was known as defensive coach. By the was his defense brought no championship here so you lack merit.

    Now in 2011 or '12 who says that this wont play defense. Speculating championship now, is not good when were are in the 11th spot.

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    Originally Posted by johnstarky
    I know what you and a lot of the Knick fans on this forum are probably thinking, "How can this guy be so negative and bashful about Mike D'antoni? He's not a bad coach,he has a good winning percentage, brings excitement to Madison Square Garden,players love him, builds team chemistry, is coaching a team with limited talent to play their hearts out every game, and is a tremendous upgrade to Isiah Thomas."
    No, more like we need a Center.

    D'Antoni was just hired.

    And, why do you keep posting in this thread?


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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    Complaining is one thing. Complaining unreasonably is another.

    You can't put years of failure on D'antoni. And let's talk about this whole "Championship" coach thing. How many titles does a coach have before he gets his first one?

    NONE. As obvious as that sounds, people miss that. You don't need a ring to be a good coach.

    The Suns, under D'antoni, not winning a title should not be big as a blemish as people should make it out to be. The Spurs eliminated the Suns every year. Like the Lakers did to the Kings, and the Bulls to our beloved Knicks. Some teams are just superior to others. Hey I think Coach needs to tweak his coaching. BUT HE WAS THE BEST AVAILABLE. Secondly, Walsh seems to do what he wants best for the team even though Mike might disagrees, so that might solves the problem of Mike building the team. But come on. Firing him now. In the words of Christian Bale:

    "THINK FOR ONE F***ING SECOND....THE THE F*CK ARE YOU DOING??!!!"

    You can complain that this team blew a lead, but honestly, D-wade is a special player, if we cant stop Kobe and Lebron, you think D-Wade was gonna be easy.

    And please, I know the league. And I know this team. I do not praise mediocrity. Where that came from.

    What do you guys expect when the team just win 23 games the year before. It takes time. You actually think this team under Phil Jackson would win a championship. Doc Rivers? What is it that you're looking for?

    Its like asking the President to fix the economy within his first 100 days. It takes more time that. A plan can be set in motion but the results take time.

    The Knicks failure were never a simple problem. The primary major problem was management. The poor choices of management past since the Ewing trade (are you paying attention, cuz I am) has set this franchise back. It was bad decision after bad decision. The poor choice of player personnel. The likes of Othello Harrington, Clarence Weatherspoon, Shandon Anderson, Mike Sweetney, Steve Francis, Jalen Rose, Malik Rose, Jerome James. I mean damn, what do you expect this year when all of this happened.

    Dont forget we were always above the cap with a record not bad enough to win a # 1 pick. That is the wost position but that is what we were for the last decade. No cap room to sign a player that would change this franchise.

    Its a new coach, new management, let's see where it goes. So far I see a team playing hard. The players make too many mistakes, Yes which pisses me off. But I know this team as presently constituted will not win a championship so I must wait to see what Donnie does.

    As much as you hate to admit it, the players win the games, not the coach, that's why you change the roster. Oh please Larry Brown. Yea he's good, but not here. Even a championship team like the Pistons wanted him out.

    Fam, your arguments are without merit and should be dismissed for failure to support a claim without sound facts.

    Bottom line, to fire D'antoni now is a idiotic move, which makes one an idiot for thinking it. The lack of Finals appearance much less a title alone should not be a determination for hiring a coach, because smart teams keep their championship coaches, thus none were available to the Knicks. I am a smart Knicks fan. I know you don't win over night. You just hope a team just gets better and better and if they dont you look for management to make moves. We are lining ourselves up for 2010. We may not land that big names but being fiscally healthy is key to a successful franchise, which what we lacked the past 10 years.

    I wasn't holding D'antoni responsible for the Knick failures of the last 10 years.I blame James Dolan for the mismanagement of the Knicks.

    I never said that Mike D'antoni wasn't a good coach my argument is that he isn't a great coach.Great coaches are the ones that can coach the right group of guys towards a championship.

    The Spurs elminated the Suns because they played defense and the Suns weren't always eliminated by the Spurs under D'antoni, they had a chance to get to the Finals without having to get through the Spurs in the 2006 playoffs but were elminated by the Dallas Mavericks.If it was just a San Antonio Spurs issue for the Suns they would of easily won a championship that year.

    Rick Adelman is another example of a good coach that isn't a great coach.He was given the right players in Portland,Sacramento, and Houston, was very close to winning a championship on a number of occasions but was never able to get it done.

    Mike D'antoni wasn't the best available for Donnie Walsh to hire.After he fired Isiah Thomas he had Avery Johnson and Scott Skiles available but chose to go with the more popular coach instead of the more reasonable one.Donnie Walsh contradicted himself after stating that the Knicks needed to get back to being a team that was built around defense.I wasn't asking for Walsh to bring in a coach that already won a championship with another team but a coach that if given the right team he would have a better chance to win a title with that team than D'antoni would.

    I am in no way desiring for Walsh to fire Mike D'antoni right at this moment.It would be foolish to tear down the foundation of a house that hasn't been fully constructed yet but once D'antoni is given the best New York Knicks team that he can get his hands on and still fails to win a championship then he deserves the pink slip.

    I don't expect this team to get anywhere,not with this deformed roster but I expect them to play better defense.They might not have the defensive players of a championship team but in their wins this year against the Spurs,Rockets, Hawks, and Celtics they actually played real defense in the 4th quarter.Why should they even think about trying to out score Dwayne Wade in the 4th quarter on the road when all they needed to do was double or triple team him.

    I could write a whole book about the mistakes of James Dolan and the decline of the New York Knicks after the Ewing era.Every die hard Knick fan has suffered through years of having their team be the side show of professional sports and are still going through the recovery from the damage.I am not an ungrateful Knick fan that is choosing not to be content with the overall improvement of the Knicks as a team and as a franchise.I just don't want to get my hopes up high as a Knick fan to then watch this organization be a couple of mistakes away from going another 35 plus years without winning a championship.

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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    MIKE BROWN, never won a championship, Scott Skiles never reached the conference finals.

    I may digress on the idiot comment to you personally, but the idea remains IDIOTIC, DUMB, and just a quick fix. Just typical of a Dolan move.

    Oh and Pat Riley didn't win those Laker titles with his hat hung on defense. He had an offensive powerhouse who were also excellent defenders. It wasnt untill he came here that he was known as defensive coach. By the was his defense brought no championship here so you lack merit.

    Now in 2011 or '12 who says that this wont play defense. Speculating championship now, is not good when were are in the 11th spot.

    Mike Brown might not have a championship now but if I were a Cleveland Cavaliers fan I would feel more confidant having him as my coach than I would D'antoni.The guy has only been in the league for 4 seasons,has one NBA finals appearance and might win a championship this year.

    Scott Skiles didn't reach the conference finals because the teams that he coached were above average teams.Look at what he's doing right now with a Milwaukee Bucks team that has been hit with the injury bug and was suppose to underachieve this year.

    When I brought up Pat Riley and the great teams he coached, my argument was that if D'antoni was given a great team to coach I don't think he would be able to win a championship with them.

    I'm hoping that if D'antoni is still here in 2011 and 2012 he would be a better coach at the defensive end.
    Last edited by johnstarky; Mar 03, 2009 at 16:09.

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    Originally Posted by quiggle
    good points yeah I forgot Jackson wouldn't have even came to the Knicks because Ewing didn't want it. But imagine had he taken over the team after '99 with Houston and Sprewell, young Camby and good leadership of LJ, Ward and Childs.
    Sorry for taking a couple of days to respond to your thread.I usually never like to leave anyone hanging.

    Now that you bring that up, in the 1999-2000 Eastern Conference finals the Knicks were a couple of wins away from eliminating the Indiana Pacers and making another finals appearance.They probably would of gotten swept or lost in 5 games to the Lakers had they made the finals.I probably take too much credit away from Phil Jackson because he was never able to win a championship without Shaq on the Lakers and without MJ on the Bulls but who knows what he could of done with the Knicks and the team you just mentioned.As coach of the Knicks he definitely would of been able to advance a lot further than Van Gundy did and I doubt that the Lakers would of made the finals if Kurt Rambis would of still been their coach.My guess was that if Jackson would of been coaching the Knicks then the 2000 NBA finals would of been the Knicks vs the TrailBlazers.But I'm just speculating here.

    Would of been an interesting match up to watch but that Portland team was too talented for the Knicks to beat.They had a starting lineup which consisted of Arvydas Sabonis at Center, Rasheed Wallace at PF, Scottie Pippen SF, Damon Stoudamire at PG and a bench that was loaded with talented players such as Jermaine O'neal, Bonzi Wells, and Brian Grant.That team could of had a couple of championships with a better coach.

    After Van Gundy resigned as Knick head coach, the quick fixes that destroyed this franchise began to unravel.Had Phil Jackson been coach after December of 2001 I don't think Dolan would of made the disastrous moves that he desperately went to.
    Last edited by johnstarky; Mar 03, 2009 at 16:11.

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