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Thread: The Obama Deception (Released 03/15/09) (Important View)

  1. #16
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    But -- and that is the role of government -- you can provide a framework and incentives that foster a certain development.
    Yes, and the incentive is self perpetuating. People want to make money, they make money by running a successful business, if you encourage spending (by giving people more money), business does well, if business does well more jobs will be created, when more jobs are created, more people make money, when more people make money more money will be spent and invested, when more money is invested, banks do better.

  2. #17
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Yes, and the incentive is self perpetuating. People want to make money, they make money by running a successful business, if you encourage spending (by giving people more money), business does well, if business does well more jobs will be created, when more jobs are created, more people make money, when more people make money more money will be spent and invested, when more money is invested, banks do better.
    But all this is still based on the concept of growth and maintaining the status quo which put us into this mess. What would change? My point is: by saving the banks you can hold the proverbial pistol to their heads, because they are actually toying around with your (aka the American people's) money. That could give the government some leverage to instigate change. Now my opinion on this administration will very much depend on what they'll do with that leverage. It is just that it is hard to tell after seventy days and taking over in the middle of a mess like this. My hope is that they force banks to finance projects that actually make a difference. For example finding materials that are capable of storing hydrogen. Having tankers that could transport liquid hydrogen would allow mankind to plaster deserts with solar panels, create huge off-shore turbine parks, which intern would lead to clean energy. That is just one example, there are just so many project which have such a hard time, not because they are not promising, but because they'll only make sense ins the long run. Banks however -- over the last two decades were almost exclusively interested in short term profits. Therefore, just allowing consumers to return to their pre-crash-overspending habits won't do the trick in the long run.

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    ****, I learned in highschool that banks closing and seizing assets was a fasttrack to a depression as it was a contributor to the Great Depression.

  4. #19
    The King Akamu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    Do you have any idea what to do? It wasn't Obama who sold those sub-prime mortgages. But greedy brokers. All major pension funds -- not only in the US but world wide -- invested in those derivatives. If you let AIG go bankrupt, the insurances that protect those pension funds will vanish into thin air. This would mean an absolute catastrophe for current and future pensioners. OF course I hate to see those ridiculous bonuses just as much as the next man, but from a regulative point of view taxing those bonuses is a delicate matter, to say the least.

    However I have the feeling that president Obama has the awareness that there are situations -- and we seem to be in such a situation right now -- in which you can only do wrong, both by acting and by not acting. Still I have the impression that the moral imperative is his guiding principle, which is something I did not have in the last eight years.

    In an ideal world I would do many things differently and I am sure this is true for President Obama as well, but I think I don't have to tell you how to end this sentence, right?

    Oh yeah, and that comment on inflation: In a situation like this, when economy almost comes to a halt, inflation is the lesser of two evils (cf. deflation). I am sure you have read about Hooverville, Hoover-plaids and how the cuts in Great Depression Germany led to the rise of the NS-regime. Stopping the bail-outs and a policy of tight money just will not do the trick. As much as I believe that it is almost impossible to learn from history, this is an economic lesson rulers have obviously learned (thank God).

    Did you really post this?

    "Obama wasn't blah blah blah"....Really? no shyt, but your brainwashed listening to the media puppets about "sub-prime mortgages" (sub-prime lending) being the "main" cause of the financial problem. The main cause of the economy "crisis" revolves around the credit derivatives.

    The subprime-mortagage is just another front, a scam by scam artists, the bankers want to place the blame on citizens of this country to cover their tracks.





    What has Obama done to actually help this country? .......nothing, nothing but help take away more our liberties, is slowly increasing the size of government and helping to further push us into hyperinflation.

    He's doing what he's being told to do by his advisors and people that control him.


    OF course I hate to see those ridiculous bonuses just as much as the next man, but from a regulative point of view taxing those bonuses is a delicate matter, to say the least.
    This is why I don't waste a lot of time here, "taxing those bonuses is a delicate matter"?? smh

    Why would you even post this under your name? This is just straight out stupid to say that giving bonuses to crooks and then taxing them is important. Good job, you passed the logical class with flying colors.

    This is like me saying, "It's important for me to reward the guy that just robbed my house but let's just take away a very tiny percentage of what he has taken from ME"

    ...really? lol I can't waste more of my time replying to shyt like this. I'm not gonna even bother going into other issues, just think before you type at least.

    I'm gonna update my first post with some additional stuff-
    Last edited by Akamu; Mar 26, 2009 at 18:59.

  5. #20
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Akamu
    The subprime-mortagage is just another front, a scam by scam artists, the bankers want to place the blame on citizens of this country to cover their tracks.
    You should have read my other posts before starting your rant. Repackaging those subprime-mortgages and reselling them as a part of different non-transparent financial products is the big issue here. This is somethingbank managers did.

    Nevertheless, any sane person has to agree that it is problematic to buy house if you don't have the money and there is little to no chance to actually earn it in the next couple of years. The only hope people had, was that the bloated "value" of their houses will allow them to sell their house at a higher price, pay-off their mortgages, and buy something they could afford. How unlikely is that? I know that there were other formats as well. But the main problem is that it was a Ponzi scheme and the bucket has to stop somewhere.

    I am only saying that consumers are not entirely guilt-free. This is a question of a state of mind, that has advanced certain unfavourable tendencies. I could write a cultural history of what went wrong only using commercials in magazines, newspapers and the advertisements I've seen during the 2007 and 2008 Allstar games.


    Originally Posted by Akamu
    What has Obama done to actually help this country?
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Not bad for 80 days, I think.

    Originally Posted by Akamu
    smh
    This is like me saying, "It's important for me to reward the guy that just robbed my house but let's just take away a very tiny percentage of what he has taken from ME"
    Obviously you got the whole thing wrong. They actually taxed those bonuses by 90%. This is not about a tiny percentage. As much as I hate the idea that --under current regulations -- the same people who screwed up badly can give each other straight up immoral bonuses, there still is no law that can prevent them from doing so. But that is a question of lacking regulation by the Bush administration.
    This whole taxing business is a work-around. However, it essentially means that everybody's income could be taxed by 90% in a coup de main. I thought this would be something you -- as our prime conspiracy theorist --can't approve of.

    Originally Posted by Akamu
    ...really? lol I can't waste more of my time replying to shyt like this.
    No need to insult me. I thought this was a place where we can have a debate over issues we may disagree about without losing our temper.

    But please: stop that "brainwashed by the media" conspiracy stuff. Your youTube videos are just another type of media output. Who actually owns youTube? Oh wait, its Google, the biggest collector of personal information. Furthermore, I don't even have a TV, because I can't be bothered to watch all this pointless bull.
    I read several Newspapers, including, The New York Times, The Guardian (GB), the Independent (GB), and Die Zeit (Germany). I think I have a rather multi-perspective approach, which is the basis of a more balanced point of view on things. And please: STOP fiddling around with those bold print/font-colour options. Making your post more colourful (literally) doesn't make it more convincing.
    Last edited by pat; Mar 27, 2009 at 07:24.

  6. #21
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    No need to insult me. I thought this was a place where we can have a debate over issues we may disagree about without losing our temper.

    But please: stop that "brainwashed by the media" conspiracy stuff. Your youTube videos are just another type of media output. Who actually owns youTube? Oh wait, its Google, the biggest collector of personal information. Furthermore, I don't even have a TV, because I can't be bothered to watch all this pointless bull.
    I read several Newspapers, including, The New York Times, The Guardian (GB), the Independent (GB), and Die Zeit (Germany). I think I have a rather multi-perspective approach, which is the basis of a more balanced point of view on things. And please: STOP fiddling around with those bold print/font-colour options. Making your post more colourful (literally) doesn't make it more convincing.
    NOPE! Haven't you seen this board? You don't agree with Akamu or one of his buddies, they just attack you, call you stupid and say all your facts are wrong and from skewed sources and all their sources are gold. Come on pat, stop trying to have a reasonable discussion, they are always right no matter what, and even if they aren't right, they'll just talk the loudest!

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    Did you guys know that there have been more filibusters this term than ever before? 90ish I think it is. That is a crazy amount of filibusters...

    Republican party is just refusing to do anything...So when bills don't get passed for weeks Obama gets the blame because the Republican party refuses to work with anyone...

  8. #23
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    It's always funny when people without a clue are telling us how to fix the economy and what is wrong. Internet economy 101

  9. #24
    The King Akamu's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by pat
    You should have read my other posts before starting your rant. Repackaging those subprime-mortgages and reselling them as a part of different non-transparent financial products is the big issue here. This is somethingbank managers did.

    Nevertheless, any sane person has to agree that it is problematic to buy house if you don't have the money and there is little to no chance to actually earn it in the next couple of years. The only hope people had, was that the bloated "value" of their houses will allow them to sell their house at a higher price, pay-off their mortgages, and buy something they could afford. How unlikely is that? I know that there were other formats as well. But the main problem is that it was a Ponzi scheme and the bucket has to stop somewhere.

    I am only saying that consumers are not entirely guilt-free. This is a question of a state of mind, that has advanced certain unfavourable tendencies. I could write a cultural history of what went wrong only using commercials in magazines, newspapers and the advertisements I've seen during the 2007 and 2008 Allstar games.



    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Not bad for 80 days, I think.



    Obviously you got the whole thing wrong. They actually taxed those bonuses by 90%. This is not about a tiny percentage. As much as I hate the idea that --under current regulations -- the same people who screwed up badly can give each other straight up immoral bonuses, there still is no law that can prevent them from doing so. But that is a question of lacking regulation by the Bush administration.
    This whole taxing business is a work-around. However, it essentially means that everybody's income could be taxed by 90% in a coup de main. I thought this would be something you -- as our prime conspiracy theorist --can't approve of.




    No need to insult me. I thought this was a place where we can have a debate over issues we may disagree about without losing our temper.

    But please: stop that "brainwashed by the media" conspiracy stuff. Your youTube videos are just another type of media output. Who actually owns youTube? Oh wait, its Google, the biggest collector of personal information. Furthermore, I don't even have a TV, because I can't be bothered to watch all this pointless bull.
    I read several Newspapers, including, The New York Times, The Guardian (GB), the Independent (GB), and Die Zeit (Germany). I think I have a rather multi-perspective approach, which is the basis of a more balanced point of view on things. And please: STOP fiddling around with those bold print/font-colour options. Making your post more colourful (literally) doesn't make it more convincing.
    Consumers are not "guilt-free" but you can't blame them for getting caught up in this over complicated system our government/federal reserve has set in place for us. Our system is designed to drive us in debt and keep us there while they profit. The system needs to be changed completely.

    They could have found alternative ways to help home owners keep their houses and uplift the economy instead of borrowing & spending more on our behalf. The stimulus bill helps stunt our economies growth, and will make the great depression even worse for us in the future. It was apparent that the economy was going to collapse with or without the bill, but the bill will only make the implosion that much greater.


    I didn't get it wrong because that's how it originally was, I don't remember you mentioning this new 90% tax bill that was released a day before your post. There's a new bill every week, the senate just past that5 page bill H.R. 1586 (I'm sure without any review) just a few days ago, based off of pressure. There's a lot to keep track of and I don't catch every single little thing they slip under the rug. Besides there's things on a larger scale to keep up with. The banks should have never been given tax payer bonuses in the first place.

    If they can take away our liberties and money then why can't they take back bonuses, prosecute and put these crooks in jail? Because doing what's right isn't part of the goal, and I'm 100% positive that there are loop-holes/exceptions that they will find to get around it. It's another unwanted bill, they can't get it right the first time and just keep plastering bullshyt together.


    Likewise, and I never lost my temper, that's just part of my style, if it bothers you then that's a personal problem that you have to deal with.

    I brought up "brainwashed by the media" (I meant mainstream media and thought you would have figure that out) is because that's all they kept talking about. Blaming our economic disaster extravaganza on this subprime lending crap when that was meant to derive focus on the bigger factor, which is the credit derivatives fabricated by the bankers.

    Youtube is a mix of alternative & mainstream media, my information comes heavily from alternative media sources. It's a shame that google, yahoo, facebook etc. makes it part of their business to collect and distribute your information. Big brother is everywhere, watching and waiting-

  10. #25
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Akamu
    Likewise, and I never lost my temper, that's just part of my style, if it bothers you then that's a personal problem that you have to deal with.
    SMHID

    You do realize, don't you?

  11. #26
    The King Akamu's Avatar
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    Do you really expect me to change something I do just because it bothers you? Never in a thousand years Like I said, it sounds like a personal problem, and it's not something newspaper articles, magazines, or Obama your messiah can help you with-

  12. #27
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Akamu
    Do you really expect me to change something I do just because it bothers you? Never in a thousand years.
    See: that is your major misconception. You got the whole concept of freedom of speech wrong. Everybody's freedom of speech stops where it affects other people's integrity. Since I give you the respect you -- as a human being -- deserve I expect you to do the same. As long as I keep the discussion subject-oriented, you should do the same. Trust me, I will do the same. Nothing more, nothing less.

    Originally Posted by Akamu
    Like I said, it sounds like a personal problem,
    I hope I made myself that there is no personal.

    Originally Posted by Akamu
    Obama your messiah can help you with-
    As an agnostic, I am not that fond of the general idea of a messiah. As my favourite publicist once said: "Those who have visions should go and see a doctor." However, I think that politics is the art of doing what is possible. Some things can be done right away by a scratch of a pen, other can't. Nevertheless I see things moving in a more favourable direction than over the last 8 years.

  13. #28
    The King Akamu's Avatar
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    Mr. I'm nice, calm and intellectually collective.... ok, who gives a shyt? you attack me just as much as I snap back at you, no need to lecture about gibberish.

    Anyhow...

    About the 5 page 90% tax bill on bonuses. You cannot target and tax one group, that is unconstitutional. The piece of legislation known as H.R. 1586 is technically illegal. Instead of taking away entirely something that should have never been granted, they go on and do something that goes against our constitution. Just like other bills that are circulating.

    This:

    Originally Posted by pat
    As an agnostic, I am not that fond of the general idea of a messiah. As my favourite publicist once said: "Those who have visions should go and see a doctor." However, I think that politics is the art of doing what is possible. Some things can be done right away by a scratch of a pen, other can't. Nevertheless I see things moving in a more favourable direction than over the last 8 years.

    This right here is one reason why I decided to post the Obama Deception.

    How are things moving in a favorable direction? You need to really contribute attention to what is unraveling around you.

    Things are going down hill quickly, and Obama is not going to save us.
    He is continuing things Bush has been doing. Bush dropped the ball and Obama picked it up and is just "going with the flow" and listening to Bush's bosses which are now his.

    Barack is furthering the INCREASE in size of government right where Bush left off when he should be doing the opposite. He told everyone he would go against the illegal wiretapping and spying but then does the complete reverse like a snake and continued the patriot act.

    I hope you love taxes because Obama is showering you with them.

    Did you pay attention when you (if you) watched the documentary? or at least research what has been said for yourself?

    They have Obama in the office because he had/has the support of the un-informed population of this country. Whether it was hate for Bush, hope for some form of "change" or just having a brand new face never before seen as the commander and chief. Obama has a mass of supporters by the balls and they buy into all he says and does. No other candidate could possibly achieve as much as Obama.

    All the endorsements, Oprah saying "He is the one" people fainting during his speeches, newspapers, mainstream media, magazines, advertisements portraying this man....Obama as the savior of mankind.

    His approval rating has been dropping and it will continue to dwindle due to his actions. Obama is a compulsive liar and a straight up poverty pimp. He clearly understands his "role" in government and understands that he has to be a snake and produce false hope to the masses that feast off his every word.

    It's obvious that we were and are in bad times and he had inherited this tight situation, but he is being "used" by his superiors to portray false hope and to take advantage of the people and these critical times.



    Barack is a very good speaker, he has swagger, he's part black which represents "change" which is allowing him to get away with a lot.

    How ironic that the "(1st)" Black president (half black whatever) is trying to RE-instate slavery with the Mandatory Service act H.R. 1388/H.R. 1444.



    H.R. 1388:
    GIVE (up your rights) will conscript millions of young people, put them in uniforms and send them packing to 4-year “public service” academies where they will be indoctrinated and trained to become “public sector leaders.”

    GIVE was passed by the House on March 18 by an overwhelming bipartisan vote of 321 to 105. “At this moment of economic crisis, when so many people are in need of help and so much needs to be done, this could not be more urgent,” [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. “It is up to every one of us to do his or her small part to make the world a better place.”

    Under section 6104 of the bill, entitled “Duties,” in subsection B6, the legislation states that a commission will be set up to investigate, “Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.”

    Section 120 of the bill addresses the “Youth Engagement Zone Program” and states that “service learning” will be “a mandatory part of the curriculum in all of the secondary schools served by the local educational agency.”

    H.R. 1388 not only reauthorizes programs under the National and Community Service Act of 1990 and the Domestic Volunteer Service Act of 1973, but also includes “new programs and studies” and is expected to be funded with an allocation of $6 billion over the next five years, explains [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] for WND. “Many, however, are raising concerns that the program, which is intended to include 250,000 ‘volunteers,’ is the beginning of what President Obama called his ‘National Civilian Security Force’ in a a speech last year in which he urged creating an organization as big and well-funded as the U.S. military. He has declined since then to elaborate,” Unruh adds.

    It appears Miller’s amendment is designed to strip members of this emerging “National Civilian Security Force” of their constitutional rights under the First Amendment.

    The First Amendment reads as follows:
    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.”
    It was passed but then removed, and now back again.

    H.R. 1444:
    It seemed like a victory, of sorts. Last week the Senate approved a bill to radically expand the AmeriCorps program. The bill initially contained language that proposed a study for mandatory service for all young people in the United States, but this language was removed as the bill moved through the Senate and did not appear in the final version.

    Well, it’s baaaaaaack. The language was stripped from one bill, but it suddenly appeared in another. It is now contained in HR 1444, due to crawl across the House floor this week. HR 1444 is sponsored by Rep. Jim McDermott, a Washington state Democrat, and is assigned to the House Committee on Labor and Education.
    The bill, under Section 4 (b)6, states:
    Whether a workable, fair, and reasonable mandatory service requirement for all able young people could be developed, and how such a requirement could be implemented in a manner that would strengthen the social fabric of the Nation and overcome civic challenges by bringing together people from diverse economic, ethnic, and educational backgrounds.
    How “mandatory service,” i.e. servitude, strengthens the “social fabric of the Nation” is not explained.


    HR 1444, like its earlier parent 1388, includes the prospect of a “public service academy, a four-year institution that offers a federally funded undergraduate education with a focus on training future public sector leaders” and reaches all the way down to primary school, requiring a review of “the means to develop awareness of national service and volunteer opportunities at a young age by creating, expanding and promoting service options for primary and secondary school students and by raising awareness of existing incentives.”


    That is, “existing incentives” as determined by the government.
    In addition to Obama’s election campaign pledge to create a 250,000 strong national security force as big, powerful and well-funded as our combined U.S. military forces, Obama’s chief of staff Rahm Emanuel has authored a book (The Plan: Big Ideas for America) that calls for three months of compulsory civil service for all Americans aged 18 to 25.
    So it looks like the goblin of compulsory national service has not gone away, it has simply morphed into another bill, soon to be considered by the House.


    One thing is for certain: the federal government considers you and your children little more than ciphers to be press ganged into mandatory “service” to a government addicted to wars waged in the name of international bankers.

    Both Articles located @: Infowars.com
    This has NOT passed yet (well it was but then later taken out) but they are trying hard to pass this, that is why it is showing up and multiple bills circulating around the senate. This is illegal, strictly unconstitutional.



    Your looking at the small part of the puzzle. The small part being Obama, having him in office convincing "you" the typical average American, individual, democrat or whatever that everything is going to be ok because you have someone you "think" you can "trust" in the white house. Thus letting the person in "trust" to take full advantage of your lowered defenses-
    Last edited by Akamu; Mar 30, 2009 at 06:56.

  14. #29
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Akamu
    I hope you love taxes because Obama is showering you with them.
    Yup. I love them because I observed that high-tax countries are doing fine. Just have a look at Scandinavia. There is less criminality, a better educational system, and a better health-care system. Financially speaking I am considerably well off and I am willing to contribute my share to make life easier for those people who were less fortunate. Do you know why Germany is doing better right now in a time of global economic crisis? Because they have a very expensive unemployment insurance system. Although it is still bad to lose your jo, it isn't such a nightmare as in the US. Furthermore this system has a stabilizing effect on the overall economy, since people can still spend some money.

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