Trade Lee and Nate

Italian Stallion

Benchwarmer
IMO....

Lee and Robinson are wildly overrated right now because of the pace of the Knicks offensive system and the fact that many people don?t fully appreciate that neither can play any defense at all. IMO, they would make excellent trade bait right now while their value is high.

People love Lee because of his rebounding.

Did anyone notice that with Lee out, a seemingly weak rebounder like Chandler was able to get 12 rebounds?

Several other Knicks also helped pick up the slack. Without their best rebounder, the Knicks outrebounded the Magic by 9.

Rebounding is obviously a critical part of winning, but in my opinion it?s probably the most fungible skill in all of basketball. Virtually every player on a team can up his rebounding productivity and make up most of the difference if the best rebounder goes down unless he's freakishly good rebounder like Rodman.

Rebounding is overvalued on an ?individual basis? despite being extremely important on a ?team basis?.

Walsh did a great job to get rid of some overrated players with bad contracts. Let?s just hope he doesn?t screw it up by resigning two overrated current players to very big contracts. Neither Lee or Robinson is worth a dime over 5-6 million. They would be role players coming off the bench on any really good team.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
The problem with that is we can't trade them now. They are free agents. We will have to do a sign and trade. The time to trade them was before this year's trade deadline.

Personally, I would like to keep them both. I think both of them can be valuable pieces for a championship team. A championship team needs a strong bench.

But, dumping salary (i.e. Jeffries and Curry) for 2010 is more important and the only way we can dump salary will be to use Nate and Lee as trade bait. It's a tough choice an I understand your argument.

F**k, that Curry trade was the worst trade in franchise history. All the draft picks we lost and now he's gonna screw us out of rebuilding.
 
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Knicks07

Benchwarmer
I dont think there overated, but the numbers they put up, their trade value is high and we can get a center that can actually play defense
 

pat

Starter
IMO....
Rebounding is overvalued on an ?individual basis? despite being extremely important on a ?team basis?.

So why is it then that Eddy Curry sucks at rebounding? Rebounding is all about attitude and you can't teach that. This is the main reason why so many GMs are after him. So I'd prefer him to stay. He won't become a superstar in this league but it would be a shame to find out that he could have been that last important part of the puzzle once he is gone.
 

TunerAddict

Starter
Trade Lee and Nate for draft picks...Lets rebuild with young talent that can learn the system right away and not have to be retrained like all of our players who went from years and years of half court offense to Dantoni's system.
 

the portable man

Benchwarmer
nate is too good to be traded, not many other guards in the league can get to the paint liike him and his D isnt that bad just not great, with better team defense he'd be fine

now Lee and chandler are replaceable considering lee's only real skill is rebounding, his low post game rarely produces a basket when going 1 on 1, and he has 0 D.....chandler shoots a low % for a starting forward, maybe even worse than rudy gay...he ONLY has a good game when he gets baskets inside, otherwise his shot is highly unreliable, but not as bad as hughes...on top of all this he has subpar handling and shot-creation abilities....and it would be hard to say if he can get better in all those areas when he doesnt look natural on the court, just some big dude with a shot form and can play D...like ive said before he seems clumsy on offense and gets his pts off fastbreak situations and open shots

duhon should also be included in trade, why not? how hard can it be to teach 3 other pro's dantoni's playbook

with lee, chandler, duhon im sure we can get a real C and a decent backup pg for nate, maybe someone like jarret jack

then we'd have harrington doing his thing at PF and a true big man down low
 

LeFlume

All Star
trade Chandler, lots of inflated expectations with him.

Are you nuts? Trade him for what? He is young and he's not making more than 1.2M next year, we have a team option 2010 at 2.1M, He is the only player we cant afford to move, besides the dude is starting to get a grip and he have a bright future in NYC. Reminds me of Jalen Rose with a better D.
 

Paul1355

All Star
IMO....

Lee and Robinson are wildly overrated right now because of the pace of the Knicks offensive system and the fact that many people don?t fully appreciate that neither can play any defense at all. IMO, they would make excellent trade bait right now while their value is high.

People love Lee because of his rebounding.

Did anyone notice that with Lee out, a seemingly weak rebounder like Chandler was able to get 12 rebounds?

Several other Knicks also helped pick up the slack. Without their best rebounder, the Knicks outrebounded the Magic by 9.

Rebounding is obviously a critical part of winning, but in my opinion it?s probably the most fungible skill in all of basketball. Virtually every player on a team can up his rebounding productivity and make up most of the difference if the best rebounder goes down unless he's freakishly good rebounder like Rodman.

Rebounding is overvalued on an ?individual basis? despite being extremely important on a ?team basis?.

Walsh did a great job to get rid of some overrated players with bad contracts. Let?s just hope he doesn?t screw it up by resigning two overrated current players to very big contracts. Neither Lee or Robinson is worth a dime over 5-6 million. They would be role players coming off the bench on any really good team.

If overrated means being the LEAGUE LEADER in doubles passing Dwight Howard whos one of the best centers in the NBA, then yea Lee is a good ovverrated player.

Lee has one problem....Defense...Lee's defense makes me want to jump in his body and start putting my hands up and going for blocks which he NEVER does. It's frustrating as a fan to watch a guy like Lee, who is a very aggressive player on offense and off the boards to not be aggressive what so ever on defense. It's like Lee is a uncompleted puzzle.

He is aggressive everywhere except defense and it is killing us. Lee should only be traded for a big defensive upgrade.

Now onto Nate...a streak player that can be a head case. Great potential and is one of the few guys that can carry this team to a win single handedly. Any guy with that ability should stay with us. It seems like every fan favorite on this team gets traded...keep Nate for his hustle, ridiculous athleticism and ability to score in crunch time. He is great at driving the ball and has a clutch outside shot....he is still one of the most under rated players in basketball. To say that Nate Robinson is over rated is ridiculous. No one knew this guy outside of NY until the slam dunk contest.
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
The problem with that is we can't trade them now. They are free agents. We will have to do a sign and trade. The time to trade them was before this year's trade deadline.

Personally, I would like to keep them both. I think both of them can be valuable pieces for a championship team. A championship team needs a strong bench.

But, dumping salary (i.e. Jeffries and Curry) for 2010 is more important and the only way we can dump salary will be to use Nate and Lee as trade bait. It's a tough choice an I understand your argument.

F**k, that Curry trade was the worst trade in franchise history. All the draft picks we lost and now he's gonna screw us out of rebuilding.
It sure did!!! It'll never be undone or solved I bet.

Also, Sign & Trade seems so------------ questionable!

I guess that means at least that if Donnie were to attempt to head hunt a particular player, then he could match the contracts specifically to the liking of both teams. Makes sense. Gives some cap & roster leverage as well.

I agree that both N8 & Lee are over-rated. Not by a lot. They've both shown what they can do this year. They've both also shown what they can't. Play D in both cases. Lee inparticular.

N8's made some noise since the ASG & that's great news for both him individually and for the team.

-His trade value's up.
-His ability to run the point competently has finally shone through.
-Duhon's a retarded baboon.
-His games blossomed late so Donnie has him in a position where if he were to ask for too much, his recent inconsistencies & previous frustrations would be a good reason to talk him down.

I know there are people who'll hate this call, but it still seems like a no brainer to me. If we were to sign Lee & N8 at the end of this year, this is what I'd like to see unfold:

Lee: 5 years @ approx $8.4m/season

N8: Either 4 or 5 years @ approx $7 - 7.5m/season

I think either of them given the hurt of the recession couldn't cringe at those offers.

Then, in a trade with Toronto acquire Chris Bosh & Jason Kappono

<!-- begin left column --> <!-- begin player -->
1977.jpg
<!-- begin playerStatCont --> Chris Bosh #4 PF


<!-- comp --> <table class="tablehead statCont" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="gamehead"><td colspan="4">2008-09 STATS</td></tr> <tr class="colhead playerStatSub"><td>PPG</td><td>RPG</td><td>BPG</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow playerStats"><td>22.8</td><td>9.5</td><td>0.9</td></tr></tbody></table>
08/09
[FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$14,410,581[/FONT] - 09/10 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$15,779,912[/FONT] - 10/11 [FONT=Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]$17,149,243[/FONT]

<!-- begin left column --> <!-- begin player -->
2010.jpg
<!-- begin playerStatCont --> Jason Kapono #24 SG
<!-- comp -->

<table class="tablehead statCont" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="gamehead"><td colspan="4">2008-09 STATS</td></tr> <tr class="colhead playerStatSub"><td>PPG</td><td>APG</td><td>3P%</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow playerStats"><td>8.1</td><td>1.5</td><td>.422</td></tr></tbody></table>
$5m for 2 years

For

<!-- begin left column --> <!-- begin player -->
2772.jpg
<!-- begin playerStatCont --> David Lee #42 PF
<!-- comp -->

<table class="tablehead statCont" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="gamehead"><td colspan="4">2008-09 STATS</td></tr> <tr class="colhead playerStatSub"><td>PPG</td><td>RPG</td><td>BPG</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow playerStats"><td>16.1</td><td>11.9</td><td>0.3</td></tr></tbody></table>
<!-- begin left column --> <!-- begin player --> <!-- begin playerStatCont --> <!-- begin left column --> <!-- begin player -->
308.jpg
<!-- begin playerStatCont --> <table class="tablehead statCont" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="oddrow playerStats"></tr><tr class="gamehead"><td colspan="4">2008-09 STATS</td></tr><tr class="colhead playerStatSub"><td>PPG</td><td>RPG</td><td>BPG</td></tr><tr class="oddrow playerStats"><td>20</td><td>6.3</td><td>0.3
</td></tr></tbody></table> <!-- comp -->Al Harrington #7 SF-PF

It works out with the Lee contract I put forth & Harrington is a tempter because of his contract & they don't really have a player of his likes that can play the 3.

The Raps would have a 5 of:

Calderon
Who cares
Marion
Lee
Bargnani

And Harrington as the 6th man?

It's been stated officially that Bosh is out of Toronto this off season. He's frustrated with management, border issues & Mitchell's firing.

Seriously, let's sign this guy!!! He's in a rut yes, but **** he's Chris Bosh & under the reigns of Mike D, we would all see how high Mike D's inflated stats can inflate.
Before he receives an offer from anyone else, I suggest we make our bid.

Knicks 5 & back ups:

N8 - Duhon
Hughes - Kappono - Nichols
Willy C - Gallo - Q Rich
Bosh - Jeffries - Ewing Jr
Wilcox - Samb - Maybe even Fats The Gay will make an appearance.

And it's not like that's permanent either. Additional trades can be made. It's better than the current 5 imo & leaves a lot more room to grow with a seriously solid player/olympian/all star at the helm & N8 taking on 2nd fiddle.

Hughes, Duhon, Wilcox are all expiring contracts leaving options for the future open, & as always the contracts of Q Bitch, Jeffries & Poo Fun Curry are killing us. I can't see them being traded either. It's beyond me. Nichols & Samb are expendables. Sign Ewing.

Don't be too fooled by the reduced cap either. Dolan fears not the cap nor ever has!

Bosh>>>>>>>> Harrington + Lee......Easy

chris-bosh-all-star.jpg



<table class="tablehead statCont" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="1"><tbody><tr class="gamehead"><td colspan="4">
</td></tr> <tr class="colhead playerStatSub"><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr> <tr class="oddrow playerStats"><td>
</td><td>
</td><td>
</td></tr></tbody></table>
 
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StreetDreams21

I got Soul
Sign & Trade seems so------------ questionable!

I guess that means at least that if Donnie were to attempt to head hunt a particular player, then he could match the contracts specifically to the liking of both teams. Makes sense. Gives some cap & roster leverage as well.

I agree that both N8 & Lee are over-rated. Not by a lot. They've both shown what they can do this year. They've both also shown what they can't. Play D in both cases. Lee inparticular.

N8's made some noise since the ASG & that's great news for both him individually and for the team.

-His trade value's up.
-His ability to run the point competently has finally shone through.
-Duhon's a retarded baboon.
-His games blossomed late so Donnie has him in a position where if he were to ask for too much, his recent inconsistencies & previous frustrations would be a good reason to talk him down.

I know there are people who'll hate this call, but it still seems like a no brainer to me. If we were to sign Lee & N8 at the end of this year, this is what I'd like to see unfold:

Lee: 5 years @ approx $8.4m/season

N8: Either 4 or 5 years @ approx $7 - 7.5m/season

I think either of them given the hurt of the recession couldn't cringe at those offers.

Then, in a trade with Toronto acquire Chris Bosh & Jason Kappono

<!-- begin left column --><!-- begin player -->
1977.jpg
<!-- begin playerStatCont -->Chris Bosh #4 PF


<!-- comp --><TABLE class="tablehead statCont" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class=gamehead><TD colSpan=4>2008-09 STATS</TD></TR><TR class="colhead playerStatSub"><TD>PPG</TD><TD>RPG</TD><TD>BPG</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow playerStats"><TD>22.8</TD><TD>9.5</TD><TD>0.9</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
08/09 - 09/10 - 10/11 Salary


<!-- begin left column --><!-- begin player -->
2010.jpg
<!-- begin playerStatCont -->Jason Kapono #24 SG
<!-- comp -->

<TABLE class="tablehead statCont" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class=gamehead><TD colSpan=4>2008-09 STATS</TD></TR><TR class="colhead playerStatSub"><TD>PPG</TD><TD>APG</TD><TD>3P%</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow playerStats"><TD>8.1</TD><TD>1.5</TD><TD>.422</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
$5m for 2 years

For

<!-- begin left column --><!-- begin player -->
2772.jpg
<!-- begin playerStatCont -->David Lee #42 PF
<!-- comp -->

<TABLE class="tablehead statCont" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class=gamehead><TD colSpan=4>2008-09 STATS</TD></TR><TR class="colhead playerStatSub"><TD>PPG</TD><TD>RPG</TD><TD>BPG</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow playerStats"><TD>16.1</TD><TD>11.9</TD><TD>0.3</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
<!-- begin left column --><!-- begin player --><!-- begin playerStatCont --><!-- begin left column --><!-- begin player -->
308.jpg
<!-- begin playerStatCont --><TABLE class="tablehead statCont" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class="oddrow playerStats"></TR><TR class=gamehead><TD colSpan=4>2008-09 STATS</TD></TR><TR class="colhead playerStatSub"><TD>PPG</TD><TD>RPG</TD><TD>BPG</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow playerStats"><TD>20</TD><TD>6.3</TD><TD>0.3

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><!-- comp -->Al Harrington #7 SF-PF

It works out with the Lee contract I put forth & Harrington is a tempter because of his contract & they don't really have a player of his likes that can play the 3.

The Raps would have a 5 of:

Calderon
Who cares
Marion
Lee
Bargnani

And Harrington as the 6th man?

It's been stated officially that Bosh is out of Toronto this off season. He's frustrated with management, border issues & Mitchell's firing.

Seriously, let's sign this guy!!! He's in a rut yes, but **** he's Chris Bosh & under the reigns of Mike D, we would all see how high Mike D's inflated stats can inflate.
Before he receives an offer from anyone else, I suggest we make our bid.

Knicks 5 & back ups:

N8 - Duhon
Hughes - Kappono - Nichols
Willy C - Gallo - Q Rich
Bosh - Jeffries
Wilcox - Samb - Maybe even Fats The Gay will make an appearance.

And it's not like that's permanent either. Additional trades can be made. It's better than the current 5 imo & leaves a lot more room to grow with a seriously solid player/olympian/all star at the helm.

Hughes, Duhon, Wilcox & Samb are all expiring contracts leaving options for the future open, & as always the contracts of Q Bitch, Jeffries & Poo Fun Curry are killing us. I can't see them being traded either. It's beyond me.

Don't be too fooled by the reduced cap either. Dolan fears not the cap nor ever has!

Bosh>>>>>>>> Harrington + Lee......Easy

chris-bosh-all-star.jpg



<TABLE class="tablehead statCont" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=2><TBODY><TR class=gamehead><TD colSpan=4>

</TD></TR><TR class="colhead playerStatSub"><TD>

</TD><TD>

</TD><TD>

</TD></TR><TR class="oddrow playerStats"><TD>

</TD><TD>

</TD><TD>

</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

i wouldnt be totally against this, but why would we get Bosh now and have him walk come 2010? if we wait till 2010, and sign him, we'd have him locked up, dontcha think?
 

Crazy⑧s

Evacuee
With Mike D calling the shots, Bosh wouldn't walk. As an Olympian, he'll attract others as well. All those boys are tight. We sign him now, we lock him up post 2010.

This has to happen. Toronto are ****ed & they know it. The Canadian dollar is screwed & even with Bosh they can't win. We can. We rock.

Harrington sucks.

Lee doesn't

Bosh kicks a$$
 
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dre48ny

Rotation player
I like both players. If they didn't want to re-sign N8, why didn't they pull the trigger when Sacramento knocked on the door. We could've dumped Jefferies salary.
 

WVKnickfan

Rotation player
N8's made some noise since the ASG & that's great news for both him individually and for the team.

Thats just it!! Nate did'nt start putting up those kind of numbers until after the All star game which I applaud him for.The problem that I have with this thow is alot of posters on here talking up Nate game like he has done that his whole career which is not true.I like Nate and I would like to see him stay but if I had to choose between Lee and Nate then its a land slide to keep Lee b/c he is worth so much more for the Knicks.Everybody talks about Lees defense being bad and yes I agree it isn't that good.

What has Lee done every offseason?? He works hard on improving his game!! One offseason he worked hard on his foul shots and when the season started the next year he was shooting 80%.Well the next offseason they told him he has to improve his jumper well he worked his ass off and done nothing but shoot jumpers and this season he greatly improved.This offseason he will work hard on his defense b/c he knows he has to and I garrentee his defense will be better b/c he works hard and he wants to win.

Again I want to keep both but if I had to trade one then Nate has to go b/c Lee brings much more to the table each and every game.Some of you always talks about Lees defense not being as good as it should be which is true but I hardly ever hear anything about Nates bad shot selection,bad defense,him losing his cool out on the court,arguing with the coach,trying to fight with the other teams players like he did again last night.


Nate is kind of a hot head sometimes and that isn't good for the Knicks team in general.Lee is nothing like that b/c he brings more to the Knicks team thats a fact. Thats why if I had to trade one then it has to be Nate and resign Lee.Now I know alot won't agree with what I wrote and I repect your opinion I just hope you can respect mine.
 
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