a couple of things about trading up for a "point guard"

ANU

Starter
lets be realistic for a moment.rubio and curry are very good young players; but i don't remember a point guard, much less a great one, winning a championship by his lonesome(maybe magic, but all he had to do was win one game in the finals without kareem).only the bulls have actually won championships without a great center, and they had jordan.

it would be great to get either of these guys, but not if it means gutting the team.if you're going to trade everything for a young player, he better be a pf or a center.so it better be griffin, or hope hill falls to us.
 

KBlack25

Starter
It's a fair point, but good PG play is critical to winning a championship. Tony Parker, Stockton played on some amazing teams, as did Nash and even when you look at last year's Celtics, while they had the big 3, Rondo had some big time games for them. The Hornets were immediately made better by the presence of CP3.

The Bucks were a contender a ways back, Big O's play put them over the top.

Maybe traditionally a PG hasn't "carried" a team to the finals, but I bet on most championship teams you'd find the PG had a critical role...
 

ANU

Starter
It's a fair point, but good PG play is critical to winning a championship. Tony Parker, Stockton played on some amazing teams, as did Nash and even when you look at last year's Celtics, while they had the big 3, Rondo had some big time games for them. The Hornets were immediately made better by the presence of CP3.

The Bucks were a contender a ways back, Big O's play put them over the top.

Maybe traditionally a PG hasn't "carried" a team to the finals, but I bet on most championship teams you'd find the PG had a critical role...
agreed.but I'd hate giving up say chandler the 8th pick, lee, and mobley's contract for the second pick. for griffin, i'd do that in a heartbeat though.
 

KBlack25

Starter
agreed.but I'd hate giving up say chandler the 8th pick, lee, and mobley's contract for the second pick. for griffin, i'd do that in a heartbeat though.

I agree, esp. in a draft deep with guards...and in a draft where the guard I want (Rubio) has his stock falling...
 

metrocard

Legend
agreed.but I'd hate giving up say chandler the 8th pick, lee, and mobley's contract for the second pick. for griffin, i'd do that in a heartbeat though.

This is ridiculous. Chandler is an easily replaceable asset the NBA is full of wing players and Chandler's ceiling is low, and always been low. Just because a guy is athletic doesn't mean he's the next T'Mac or has an unlimited ceiling. Chandler has a timid demeanor and doesn't go to the free throw line enough...he's a soft SF who isn't physical enough, despite having a strong physique. Please get over Chandler, thanks.

Plus, **** Wilson Chandler. He doesn't have a position. Gallinari is holding down the SF spot forever. Chandler is too soft to play PF and isn't a good shooter/ball handling to play SG...I say let him go so another team can figure him out. He's not efficient at scoring either...the only reason why he's hype because the Knicks rarely get young players...when a young dude scores, MSG goes crazy. Remember the Lavar Postell days? Chandler isn't that good. He will be a 9 - 13 ppg guy for most of his career...Bobby Simmons status.

Rubio will be better than Griffin. Griffin is an elite big man, but he can't make his teammates better like Rubio does. That will always be the difference between the two and you can't ever deny that now, today, tommorow, or forever.

Trading for Rubio would be the smartest thing this franchise does.
If Evans is available at 8...Knicks don't really need to trade for Rubio...but it would be awesome if we had a 1-2-3 of Rubio/Evans/Gallinari

wow...
 

dave2138

Rotation player
I thought Memphis already made it open that they had no interest in Wilson Chandler. Besides what are they going to take at #8 if Jordan Hill is gone? They aren't going to trade down with the Knicks to take another guard. I've been saying this for a while..don't trade for Rubio. Trade for Conley instead.

If Memphis is as cost conscious as people say they are, they would rather trade Conley then than Rubio right? Rubio, after being drafted is signed cheaply for 4 years. Conley is a restricted FA in 2 years.

There is little to no chance that the Knicks can trade for Rubio since the only player that would interest them David Lee can not be traded on draft day. We all agreed that if Jordan Hill is gone before the Knicks pick then Memphis will have no interest in the #8 pick. They also have no interest in Chandler. So, I have no idea why this Rubio - Knicks talk still exists.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
I think Chris Duhon is not that good, but he's good enough: he can pass, move the ball around and hit an open shot.

I'm not a big believer in point guards being the main players on teams. If you look at teams that have put all their stock into a point guard, in recent times, they've never gone to the next level. CP3 is the current example, Nash has been one, so have countless others.

Like Anu said, you don't win, in this league, without a very good big man. Kobe proved this more than anyone. His teams were trash, until he got Gasol.

As for Rubio, everyone knows how I feel: he's overrated.
 

StreetDreams21

I got Soul
I thought Memphis already made it open that they had no interest in Wilson Chandler. Besides what are they going to take at #8 if Jordan Hill is gone? They aren't going to trade down with the Knicks to take another guard. I've been saying this for a while..don't trade for Rubio. Trade for Conley instead.

If Memphis is as cost conscious as people say they are, they would rather trade Conley then than Rubio right? Rubio, after being drafted is signed cheaply for 4 years. Conley is a restricted FA in 2 years.

There is little to no chance that the Knicks can trade for Rubio since the only player that would interest them David Lee can not be traded on draft day. We all agreed that if Jordan Hill is gone before the Knicks pick then Memphis will have no interest in the #8 pick. They also have no interest in Chandler. So, I have no idea why this Rubio - Knicks talk still exists.

And i've been saying this for a while as well: Memphis aint trading Conley.

We can S&T lee after draft day, although i do not know if that is likely at all.
 

TunerAddict

Starter
There are franchise PGs in this draft, but not really any big men. Thats why we take a guard.

Draft the Best Player Available. When you draft for a need you get Kwame Brown and the Kandyman.
 

SSj4Wingzero

All Star
Yeah drafting for a need gets you Sam Bowie. The Knicks do need a big man, but in a draft where there are future all-star PGs and not too many big men who will carry a team, it's not worth it. We have to get the best player we can, and it just so happens that this is a draft with a lot of talented guards (and though big men are important, we need guards too).
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
This is ridiculous. Chandler is an easily replaceable asset the NBA is full of wing players and Chandler's ceiling is low, and always been low. Just because a guy is athletic doesn't mean he's the next T'Mac or has an unlimited ceiling. Chandler has a timid demeanor and doesn't go to the free throw line enough...he's a soft SF who isn't physical enough, despite having a strong physique. Please get over Chandler, thanks.

Plus, **** Wilson Chandler. He doesn't have a position. Gallinari is holding down the SF spot forever. Chandler is too soft to play PF and isn't a good shooter/ball handling to play SG...I say let him go so another team can figure him out. He's not efficient at scoring either...the only reason why he's hype because the Knicks rarely get young players...when a young dude scores, MSG goes crazy. Remember the Lavar Postell days? Chandler isn't that good. He will be a 9 - 13 ppg guy for most of his career...Bobby Simmons status.

Rubio will be better than Griffin. Griffin is an elite big man, but he can't make his teammates better like Rubio does. That will always be the difference between the two and you can't ever deny that now, today, tommorow, or forever.

Trading for Rubio would be the smartest thing this franchise does.
If Evans is available at 8...Knicks don't really need to trade for Rubio...but it would be awesome if we had a 1-2-3 of Rubio/Evans/Gallinari

wow...

For an elite poster you say the most stupid things. "LET ANOTHER TEAM FIGURE HIM OUT"? Chandler has a much higher ceiling than ariza, and look where he is now. As a sophomore chandler went from 7ppg to 14 ppg, averaged 1 block, 1 steal, 5 rebs and 2 assists. His freethrow percentage went up from a low 60 to about 80% in one season. This speaks to his work ethic. You cant say he isnt a good shooter either, because once again, ariza was a horrid shooter in new york. a jump shot can be twerked, adjusted and made better. Lebron is just falling into his jumpshot 5 years after his draft date. Your 2 guard isnt responsible for ball handling, even tho chandler is smart and careful with the rock and has never averaged 2 or more turnovers in his short career. Bobby Simmons is a career 9 ppg...gtfo
Rubio will be better than griffen? lmao....ok then.....so is ur power forward responsible for making others better? griffen only has to draw doubleteams and he will assist his team.
i soooo wish rubio wasnt a spaniard....maybe we would get an unbiased opinion from metrosexual
 

dave2138

Rotation player
And i've been saying this for a while as well: Memphis aint trading Conley.

We can S&T lee after draft day, although i do not know if that is likely at all.

Why wouldn't they trade Conley? Rubio has the higher ceiling and will be signed for 4 years. Conley can be a restricted FA in just 2 more years.
 

metrocard

Legend
Ariza has a higher ceiling than Chandler...Ariza is one of the NBA's elite defenders and top intangibles guys. Look at how he flourished under LA. Ariza plays with heart and a passion to win. Chandler a lion with no heart.

Chandler stats don't really tell me anything except that we're a bad team. Chandler is as average as it gets. He was given an opportunity to average 17-18 ppg in this system, but his timid style of people and efficient production kept him as a 13-14 ppg scorer...thats who he will be forever, gurantee. Dude, you were wrong about everything on this site, you were one of the elite Isiahsexuals, I turned out to be right about the Knicks, and you turned out to be completely wrong. You should have a little trust in my word by now. I already explained Chandler isn't needed on this roster, we have Gallo, the superior player.

Knicks were 14-14 (.500) in the 28 games Gallo played.
The Knicks won only 16 out of 54 games (.296).

Gallo makes the Knicks play harder...makes the game easier for eveyone, offense looks more smooth and intensity on defense increases.

Chandler doesn't have that passion on the court. Sure he can dunk and glide, but he's just an individual player...playing for individual stats.

Haven't you learned from Isiah indivudual players, unless its Kobe, Lebron etc that class group, don't lead to winning results?

Curry
Crawford
Francis
Tim Thomas
Mo Taylor

etc etc etc.

Chandler doesn't have Gallinari's intangibles and we would be wasting time with Chandler off the bench because he doesn't play at 100% intensity...he could never be a spark plug like Nate...you always see Wilson half assing it most of the time. Dude is lame, and is an Isiah product. A real Knick fan want nothing to do with anything related to Isiah. You've proven on this site many times you don't fit the category of a true Knick fan. Still true to Isiah.

Elite PF's can make other players better.
Gasol
Duncan
Garnett
Malone
Barkley
etc

Griffin will be in the Boozer group...those PF's that score/rebound...and it ends there. He will never be a shot blocker or defender based on what we saw in college.

Stop predicting things you don't know...If JRue Holiday/DeRozan display they don't have good handles...its illogical to say they will develop them in the NBA when you have no clue on their work ethic or other aspects that will get them there...you're just going purely based on a hope and prediction...just like you did with Isiah, and look how foolish you turned out to be.

Negro, I'm not from Spain.
I just happen to like elite skilled and ready for the NBA talent.
Rubio is one of them.
If Ty Lawson Dominican/Puerto Rican from the Bronx?
No.
But I still favor him because I see him doing big things in the NBA. Not average things like Chandler.



Throw Chandler away, because his value won't ever get higher.
I said this about Curry, and people got mad at me.
Look at us now.
 

dave2138

Rotation player
The thing about Chandler though is that he is cheap for another 2 seasons. Everything is focused around 2010, and you have a player good enough to be a starter/6th man making only 2 mil/year.

He'll never be an elite player, but you can't say hes reached his peak at 22..If anything you have a decent offensive player and a great defender with the ability to play 3 positions.

Not something the knicks should just throw away especially when his trade value isn't that high. He's worth more to the Knicks now than he is in a trade.
 

ANU

Starter
This is ridiculous. Chandler is an easily replaceable asset the NBA is full of wing players and Chandler's ceiling is low, and always been low. Just because a guy is athletic doesn't mean he's the next T'Mac or has an unlimited ceiling. Chandler has a timid demeanor and doesn't go to the free throw line enough...he's a soft SF who isn't physical enough, despite having a strong physique. Please get over Chandler, thanks.

Plus, **** Wilson Chandler. He doesn't have a position. Gallinari is holding down the SF spot forever. Chandler is too soft to play PF and isn't a good shooter/ball handling to play SG...I say let him go so another team can figure him out. He's not efficient at scoring either...the only reason why he's hype because the Knicks rarely get young players...when a young dude scores, MSG goes crazy. Remember the Lavar Postell days? Chandler isn't that good. He will be a 9 - 13 ppg guy for most of his career...Bobby Simmons status.

Rubio will be better than Griffin. Griffin is an elite big man, but he can't make his teammates better like Rubio does. That will always be the difference between the two and you can't ever deny that now, today, tommorow, or forever.

Trading for Rubio would be the smartest thing this franchise does.
If Evans is available at 8...Knicks don't really need to trade for Rubio...but it would be awesome if we had a 1-2-3 of Rubio/Evans/Gallinari

wow...
i knew you'd get around to liking evans.he's a bigger dumber oj mayo.I've all ready said that i'd part with chandler and the 8th for rubio.there is no way i'd give up lee, and mobley's contract for him too.that's too much.

There are franchise PGs in this draft, but not really any big men. Thats why we take a guard.

Draft the Best Player Available. When you draft for a need you get Kwame Brown and the Kandyman.

Yeah drafting for a need gets you Sam Bowie. The Knicks do need a big man, but in a draft where there are future all-star PGs and not too many big men who will carry a team, it's not worth it. We have to get the best player we can, and it just so happens that this is a draft with a lot of talented guards (and though big men are important, we need guards too).
if hill is still there at 8, he's the best player available.
 

KBlack25

Starter
I think Chandler is ultimately average, he won't carry a team to a championship and that makes him replaceable. However, I can see Chandler playing solid minutes and even starting on a championship team.

There's a real simple way to build a championship team:

3 guys that are stars (see: Duncan + Ginobili + Parker, Jordan + Pippen + Rodman, Billups + Rip Ham + Rasheed Wallace, Allen + Garnett + Pierce), plus a bunch of role players. You build your team around the three stars, and fill in with role players, marginal guys. Chandler is the type of guy that would be a good version of the role player.

Is he replaceable? Sure. But so is everyone on the Knicks' roster right now.
 

Toons

is the Bo$$
Ariza has a higher ceiling than Chandler...Ariza is one of the NBA's elite defenders and top intangibles guys. Look at how he flourished under LA. Ariza plays with heart and a passion to win. Chandler a lion with no heart.

Ariza is in his 5th year...and he is an average defender at best. Ariza does not consistently guard the oppositions best player. He is a help defender who's experience has made him grow.

Chandler stats don't really tell me anything except that we're a bad team. Chandler is as average as it gets. He was given an opportunity to average 17-18 ppg in this system, but his timid style of people and efficient production kept him as a 13-14 ppg scorer...thats who he will be forever, gurantee. Dude, you were wrong about everything on this site, you were one of the elite Isiahsexuals, I turned out to be right about the Knicks, and you turned out to be completely wrong. You should have a little trust in my word by now. I already explained Chandler isn't needed on this roster, we have Gallo, the superior player.

Just because i was a fan of crawford means i was a fan of isiah. We didnt have much choices of knicks to like....and i refused to follow an ass like marbury. And you think at 22 chander will never learn to be more aggressive? ok miss cleo

Knicks were 14-14 (.500) in the 28 games Gallo played.
The Knicks won only 16 out of 54 games (.296).

Meaningless rubbish....if thats the case, we dont need lebron, a healthy gallo is all we need.

Gallo makes the Knicks play harder...makes the game easier for eveyone, offense looks more smooth and intensity on defense increases.

i like gallinari, so im not gonna knock him....my favorite lineup is chandler at the 2, gallo at the 3

Chandler doesn't have that passion on the court. Sure he can dunk and glide, but he's just an individual player...playing for individual stats.

play for stats? come on now, u and i both watched basically this entire season game by game, lets not be stupid here

Haven't you learned from Isiah indivudual players, unless its Kobe, Lebron etc that class group, don't lead to winning results?

in a conversation about ariza and chandler, how does kobe equate here? who says chandler will be elite? or an all star? not much players reach that level. that like saying Ariza will never be an allstar.....DUH!

Curry
Crawford
Francis
Tim Thomas
Mo Taylor

etc etc etc.

AGREED....chandler does not fit that mold though

Chandler doesn't have Gallinari's intangibles and we would be wasting time with Chandler off the bench because he doesn't play at 100% intensity...he could never be a spark plug like Nate...you always see Wilson half assing it most of the time. Dude is lame, and is an Isiah product. A real Knick fan want nothing to do with anything related to Isiah. You've proven on this site many times you don't fit the category of a true Knick fan. Still true to Isiah.

So a real knick fan hates david lee, n8, chandler ?

Elite PF's can make other players better.
Gasol
Duncan
Garnett
Malone
Barkley
etc

yes they can, but its not their RESPONSIBILITY.....thats like me saying rubio is trash because he cant rebound like griffen......yea there are rebouding guards, like kidd, but its nothis RESPONSIBILITY.


Griffin will be in the Boozer group...those PF's that score/rebound...and it ends there. He will never be a shot blocker or defender based on what we saw in college.

Stop predicting things you don't know...If JRue Holiday/DeRozan display they don't have good handles...its illogical to say they will develop them in the NBA when you have no clue on their work ethic or other aspects that will get them there...you're just going purely based on a hope and prediction...just like you did with Isiah, and look how foolish you turned out to be.

i never commented on holiday, cuz ihavent seen much of him. derozen to me, is the draft sleeper imo. i said a jump shot can improve in the league...stop going around what i say to make urself look right. once again, i never liked isiah, and i usually cheer for anyone wearing orange n blue.

Negro, I'm not from Spain.
once again, i never said u were from spain or spanish decent, i said u have a hard on for latino's/spaniards/mexicans or whatever u wanna call it bruh. u made insane trade suggestions for sergio rodreguez, juan navarrow, franky garcia, arroyo, barea....come on, its no coincedence that they are all rican/B]

I just happen to like elite skilled and ready for the NBA talent.
Rubio is one of them.
If Ty Lawson Dominican/Puerto Rican from the Bronx?
No.
But I still favor him because I see him doing big things in the NBA. Not average things like Chandler.

once again, i never said u ONLY like rican players silly boy.


Throw Chandler away, because his value won't ever get higher.
I said this about Curry, and people got mad at me.
Look at us now.


I think u should argue with yourself...because normal people stick to what is being said....you just craft things to big up ya ego....keep it up
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Good thread, ANU. I also think the Knicks should draft a center. Last year, the Knicks had a chance to draft Brook Lopez, and they blew it. Hopefully the don't make the same mistake twice. Unfortunately, Hasheem Thabeet is not nearly as good as Lopez, but he can at least give the Knicks some defense. If Thabeet isn't available, the Knicks should then try to get a shooting guard, because Larry Hughes and Quentin Richardson are not cutting it. They both suck, and they both deserve to get waived. As for winning a championship, I do not know why everyone is so caught up with that. The Knicks have not made the playoffs in 5 years. The team should worry about making the playoffs, before winning a championship.
 

mafra

Legend
All I know, if we draft Jrue Holliday or Brandon Jennings.... I think I'll throw up in my mouth a little bit.
 
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