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Thread: Official Jordan Hill Thread

  1. #31
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Best case Nene.... Similar athleticism...Worse hands though

    Worst case Frye....

    He'll get plenty of minutes to iron out creases. Plays the P&R well like Lee. Doesn't mind bruising it up inside & has Oak as a tutor to enforce some ****yness.

    Can't pass out of the paint but has a mid-range game...

    IMO the pros outweigh the cons...

    Good signing of the best available player at 8th depending on Lawson's pro transition...

    Overall, happy with the selection.

    Go Hill!!!!

    Go Knicks!!!!

    Go **** yourself to the haters.

  2. #32
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    my problem is not so much with the pick as it is with the strategy as a whole. Look, picks 2-7 could not have gone worse for the Knicks, four legit targets off the board. I can see taking Hill. But as Holliday fell and Lawson was still around, Donnie HAD to make a move to get a PG. That's what they needed, they don't have a pick next year (and the way it looks we will be moving a good pick). He had to trade someone and get himself Ty Lawson or Jrue Holliday or a REAL PG. The PG we would up with averaged UNDER THREE ASSISTS PER GAME.

    My problem is not with pick 8, I think this team DOES need size that they got in Hill and Darko. But they had to make a move to get themselves into position to get one of those guys in the late teens. They didn't do it. The picks were for sale, but they didn't make a move.

  3. #33
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    I love the Jordan Hill pick. He's going to be a beast in the NBA. He's young, athletic, and has a good head on his shoulders. The Knicks staff said that he reminds them of Amare so I'm excited. I found him on facebook and added myself as a fan!

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  4. #34
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    my problem is not so much with the pick as it is with the strategy as a whole. Look, picks 2-7 could not have gone worse for the Knicks, four legit targets off the board. I can see taking Hill. But as Holliday fell and Lawson was still around, Donnie HAD to make a move to get a PG. That's what they needed, they don't have a pick next year (and the way it looks we will be moving a good pick). He had to trade someone and get himself Ty Lawson or Jrue Holliday or a REAL PG. The PG we would up with averaged UNDER THREE ASSISTS PER GAME.

    My problem is not with pick 8, I think this team DOES need size that they got in Hill and Darko. But they had to make a move to get themselves into position to get one of those guys in the late teens. They didn't do it. The picks were for sale, but they didn't make a move.
    As far as I know the only teen pick that was up for sale was the 18th of Minny, which they traded to Denver. The only reason for this was some kind of pre-existing trade arrangement from some time ago, so there wasn't really a chance for the Knicks to nab this pick afaik.

    Not much to grumble about really, there are PGs floating about who will probably contribute more to us than Holiday or Lawson.

    Jason Kidd expressed an interest in NY and will meet with Knicks brass come July.

    Steve Nash is seeing his team fall apart around him, Shaq gone, Amare on the way out. The Suns are only in it for the money now and I wouldn't be surprised to see Nash wanting out.

    Ricky Rubio, as unlikely as some make it out to be, is still a possibility.

    Ramon Sessions is in FA pool this year.

    Plenty of options.

  5. #35
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    Default Hill

    How is Jordan Hill not the next Amare Stoduimire. Think about Amare coming out of HS very raw all upside and went into Mikes system and became an all star. Hill is the same but with a mid range game!

  6. #36
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by smokes
    As far as I know the only teen pick that was up for sale was the 18th of Minny, which they traded to Denver. The only reason for this was some kind of pre-existing trade arrangement from some time ago, so there wasn't really a chance for the Knicks to nab this pick afaik.

    Not much to grumble about really, there are PGs floating about who will probably contribute more to us than Holiday or Lawson.

    Jason Kidd expressed an interest in NY and will meet with Knicks brass come July.

    Steve Nash is seeing his team fall apart around him, Shaq gone, Amare on the way out. The Suns are only in it for the money now and I wouldn't be surprised to see Nash wanting out.

    Ricky Rubio, as unlikely as some make it out to be, is still a possibility.

    Ramon Sessions is in FA pool this year.

    Plenty of options.
    Point taken, but in a draft so rich with PGs, and PG being an enormously pressing issue on this team, they had to get one, in my opinion. Nash and Kidd are band-aids on a broken arm, a temporary fix that won't do much long term.

  7. #37
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    I wasn't happy with this pick, but (to be blunt) I don't really know much about this player.

    We had no shot at Griffin, Thabeet & Evans. The only really "can't-miss" type prospects.... All the rest have questions.

    Knicks need height.... defense... shot blockers... post players. So, why grab a 6-foot bust when you can gamble on a 6"10 one?

    Darko, Hill, Galineri last year.... ALL taller than 6"10. Height and athleticism is a good thing in today's NBA.

    I can see it now.... Lebron & the Euros (Rubio, Danilo, Darko, Gortat).

  8. #38
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    This dude is gonna be a beast...I could see him MAYBE becoming franchise status if he continues to develop and puts on 15lbs of muscle.

  9. #39
    Member Knicker23's Avatar
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    what's that i heard bout him shooting 50% from the free throw ..

    he looks like he has some potential, perhaps he'll develope into a Chris Bosh type?

  10. #40
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Knicker23
    what's that i heard bout him shooting 50% from the free throw ..

    he looks like he has some potential, perhaps he'll develope into a Chris Bosh type?
    I think more an Amare/KG hybrid..run and finish like Amare with KG mid range game and D...obviously being as good as either is a long way off but style wise I see him fitting that mold.

  11. #41
    Veteran JayJ44's Avatar
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    Chris Bosh, Amare, and KG are fluid on the court. Hill is clumsy and mechanical. Hill doesn't play smart. He commits dumb fouls, and isn't a very good one-on-one defender. He's athletic, so he's a good weak side defender. But he doesn't know how to use his body on defense. Very Chris Wilcox like.

    These comparisons to Bosh and Amare are really ridiculous. Amare is arguably the most explosive guy in the NBA. Hill is athletic but not on his level. Bosh is a skilled offensive player. Hill is a clumsy offensive player, with little post moves or offensive polish.

    I'm not trying to bash Hill. He's a Knick, so I support him. But people thinking he will be a franchise player, or even an all-star caliber player, will be disappointed. I honestly see him as a good role player, to bring energy off the bench. I truly hope he proves me wrong, and develops into a franchise caliber player. But I don't see it.

  12. #42
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by JayJ44
    Chris Bosh, Amare, and KG are fluid on the court. Hill is clumsy and mechanical. Hill doesn't play smart. He commits dumb fouls, and isn't a very good one-on-one defender. He's athletic, so he's a good weak side defender. But he doesn't know how to use his body on defense. Very Chris Wilcox like.

    These comparisons to Bosh and Amare are really ridiculous. Amare is arguably the most explosive guy in the NBA. Hill is athletic but not on his level. Bosh is a skilled offensive player. Hill is a clumsy offensive player, with little post moves or offensive polish.

    I'm not trying to bash Hill. He's a Knick, so I support him. But people thinking he will be a franchise player, or even an all-star caliber player, will be disappointed. I honestly see him as a good role player, to bring energy off the bench. I truly hope he proves me wrong, and develops into a franchise caliber player. But I don't see it.
    You are comparing a rookie just drafted to seasoned veterans who have matured already and reached their potential. Of course he is not on their level YET and may not EVER be on their level but the similarities at this point in their careers is easy to see.

    The Knicks are due up for a sleeper star to be drafted and Hill just might fit the bill. He has enormous upside and a tremendous body and athleticism. He started playing organized b ball in the 9th grade and missed his junior year of HS because of grades. The dude is no where near his ceiling and is very similar to Aamre at this stage.

    BTW, he is not clumsy and is showing great footwork in his workouts. What he lacks is polish and a left hand. Both can be and will be taught. In our system this guy is going to be a beast. It's obviously my prediction and I could be wrong but my predictions are in no way outlandish.

    Just watch the vidz!

  13. #43
    Veteran JayJ44's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    You are comparing a rookie just drafted to seasoned veterans who have matured already and reached their potential. Of course he is not on their level YET and may not EVER be on their level but the similarities at this point in their careers is easy to see.

    The Knicks are due up for a sleeper star to be drafted and Hill just might fit the bill. He has enormous upside and a tremendous body and athleticism. He started playing organized b ball in the 9th grade and missed his junior year of HS because of grades. The dude is no where near his ceiling and is very similar to Aamre at this stage.

    BTW, he is not clumsy and is showing great footwork in his workouts. What he lacks is polish and a left hand. Both can be and will be taught. In our system this guy is going to be a beast. It's obviously my prediction and I could be wrong but my predictions are in no way outlandish.

    Just watch the vidz!
    Hill can't be compared to Amare coming out of high school. Amare was a beast, even when he was in high school. Hill is weak, especially in his lower body. He was able to bully around the guys in college, but he won't be able to that at the next level. It's a lot easier to show great footwork in workouts, rather than in actual games. In his games in Arizona, he showed that he's clumsy and mechanical. Some quotes from draft express:

    Jordan Hill had another productive game that did a good job highlighting his strengths as a prospect, as well as his shortcomings. One on hand he displayed his excellent athleticism with a number of terrific finishes off pick and roll plays and in transition, running the floor extremely well and exploding off the ground in impressive fashion. He also knocked down a 20 foot jump-shot, the most range we’ve seen him show thus far, and converted on a decent looking turnaround jumper in the post.

    On the other hand, Hill’s poor skill-level was very much evident in this game, as he looked very raw and mechanical trying to post up Cleveland State’s undersized defenders in the post, being stripped on one possession and also throwing up some ugly looking bricks. You would have expected him to dominate this game considering the huge advantage he holds in terms of size/athleticism against the 6-5 and 6-6 big men he went up against, but he really wasn’t able to consistently take advantage of his natural gifts. Defensively, Hill has potential but clearly is lacking in the fundamentals department, having a hard time rotating over effectively to guard the paint and picking up some questionable fouls. His basketball IQ is clearly nothing to write home about, and unless he’s able to significantly improve his skill-level over the next few years (not out of the question considering how far he’s come), he looks a lot more likely to develop into a solid energy guy/role-player rather than the game-changing presence you might expect from a potential top-5 pick. With that in mind, the fact that his rebounding rate has fallen significantly recently, going from over averaging over 12 boards per contest in the first 20 games, to just 9.3 rebounds in last 12 games, is not a great sign.
    What good are natural gifts if he doesn't know how to use them? We know he's athletic and he can shoot, but he hasn't shown he can use that to his advantage. I don't like these project bigmen, who are drafted purely off of physical tools. They rarely work out well. Statistically, it seems Hill is merely an average player:

    Looking over the numbers of our top power forwards, we noticed a number of players who are projected as lottery picks that don’t look the part on paper. Sitting just behind Griffin in our rankings, we find [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], who’s overall Points Per Possession of.94 places him slightly below the mean of .98, not quite what one would expect from a potential top-5 draft pick. Looking deeper, we realize that Hill ranks right around the average in a number of areas. He surprisingly connects on just 63.87% of his finishing opportunities not including post ups, and only scores on 49.6% of his logged possessions –sitting just off the mean in both categories. Much of Hill’s lack of efficiency can be attributed to the fact that he only gets fouled on 10.4% of his possessions and gets very few touches in transition (16th at 1.1 Pos/g) and basket cut situations (15th at 1.8), two scenarios where he’s effective ( 1.33 and 1.43 PPP respectively). The other factor working against Hill is his jumper, which we’ll discuss later.

    Clearly teams are valuing Hill’s upside quite a bit. He’s already a productive rebounder and has a lot of potential long-term as a defender, but his offense doesn’t stand out amongst his peers. He’s raw, but some teams see his physical profile and athleticism and assume he will be a player that develops into a bigger threat on the next level.
    You know what they say, when you assume, you make an ass out of you and me. Jeff Goodman from Fox sports on Hill:

    I saw Hill play more than most people. He is very raw and athletic, but he is mechanical. In an ordinary year, Hill goes in the 20’s. He is a hit-or-miss prospect. I do not know if he can handle NY. He is a deep south kid, and he might be eaten up in NY. As a defender, Hill is not very smart. He leaves his guys open on a block sometimes and allows for easy lay-ups. He is just okay as a defender. He’ll help as a shot-blocker though. Hill is foul prone at times. He commits dumb reach-in fouls consistently. He doesn’t know how to use his body well. I see Hill as more of a good big man off the bench.
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    I'm more than willing to give him a chance. But there's overwhelming evidence that Hill will be a bust.

  14. #44
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    People seem to get excited when they hear 6'10" and athletic. There's more to a good big man in the NBA than just size and athleticism.

  15. #45
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by goldenchild1688
    poor mans chris bosh

    i really didnt get this draft. the glaring weakness coming in was center and 2 guard and we ended up with a backup combo guard not really starting material and created yet another log jam at forward

    were potentially losing a 4 and 1 so we draft to replace the 4 and 1 spots. but fail to adress the missing pieces at the 2 and 5 positions

    were just telling everyone sit back and wait for 2010 yet were going to potentially yield a worse team then this season without the reward of a pick. then were gonna expect a superstar to want to come and play here with what we have

    we better have enough bread to sign 2 stars for sure cause if not no one is gonna be eager to come. and even if they 1 star wont make with what is left into a legit team
    To be fair, I think we have to wait and see what happens during free agency (and with trades) before we see what product DW throws out there for the 2009 campaign, and what that means for 2010.

    Jordan Hill was the 2nd rated big man in this draft. He can play PF & C in D'ant's system. Yes, we replace Lee with Hill.... BUT, we'll also get something for D-Lee as we send him somewhere.... BUT, it's more than that.

    The Knicks hope Hill is somewhere between Boris Diaw & Amare Stoudmire. Lee was never a guy who fit this system, and he was really bad on defense, and had zero offfensive game when it mattered most.

    Lee has a better jump shot, is more athletic, is cheaper, taller (?) and is a guy who has improved every uear, and like Lee is a workhorse who is willing to put in the ffort to improve.

    NOW, we could have grabbed Henderson instead. He could have been our Bell... Our SG. BUT, to be honest, as a Duke fan, Henderson suffers with fatigue (asthma) and is not really a can't-miss type guy... So, when in doubt go BIG. Why not?

    Like you.... I was ticked when they called Hill's name. After Harden got selected 3rd, I thought it was a LOCK we were getting either Evans, Rubio, Curry or Flynn. It didn't work out.... NO sense reaching at 8.... NEVER A BAD THING to pick the 2nd best big man in any draft.

    As for Toney Douglas... The kid is good. ACC leading scorer, defensive player of the year, beat UNC, played great against the tough competition.... He's a more all-around player than Nate, and cheaper....

    SO, it doesn't hurt replacing Nate & Lee with Douglas & Hill. Nate & Lee were 2 of our best players, so they needed to be replaced. You might even say, the two new chaps are better fits for our system, and both play better defense.

    LOOK AT IT THIS WAY: Being we drafted at 8 & 29.... We should be PSYCHED we got these two guys.... their talent is better than where they were drafted. You cannot complain.

    PLUS, we did address the C position: we got Darko. We'll probably sign Gortat, and that gives us three Cs (if you count Curry).

    We still need a PG & a SG... but, what was really available to us? AND, we have to wait and see what comes next month.

    SO, Henderson might turn out to be a solid player, & Hill a bust. Those are the risks.... BUT, Henderson would have been a reach at 8.... Hill was not.

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