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Thread: Knicks-Sessions at impasse / Lee Talks going nowhere

  1. #1
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Default Knicks-Sessions at impasse / Lee Talks going nowhere

    Knicks, Lee still at impasse

    Posted on: August 3, 2009 5:45 pm

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    David Lee's existence in the NBA's purgatory known as restricted free agency has entered its second month, and negotiations with the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] are "nowhere new," the power forward's agent, Mark Bartelstein, said Monday.

    The Knicks are "open minded" and "willing to listen," said Bartelstein, who continues to seek sign-and-trade possibilities that are severely limited by the dearth of teams with cap space and Lee's status as a base-year compensation player -- which makes it more difficult to match salaries in a trade. Running out of options, Bartelstein and Knicks president Donnie Walsh have begun talking in general terms about a one-year deal that would make Lee an unrestricted free agent next summer, when at least half the league's teams will have significant salary cap room.

    "There's a possibility a one-year deal could happen," Bartelstein said. "We're not ruling anything out. If its a one-year deal, well try to get a one-year deal that compensates him for who he is."

    Lee's situation is holding up some of the remaining player movement at the back end of the free-agent process. Comparable players like the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]' Glen "Big Baby" Davis (also a restricted free agent), [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (eligible for an extension with the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]), and Aaron Gray (who is expected to re-sign with Chicago) have been waiting to see what happens with Lee before proceeding. So have their respective teams. The Celtics, meanwhile, struck pre-emptively Monday by agreeing to terms on a one-year, minimum salary deal with free agent forward Shelden Williams.

    The Knicks, determined to hold onto precious 2010 cap space, also are in negotiations with [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] restricted free agent Ramon Sessions. But a person familiar with those talks said they reached an impasse over the weekend -- although the line of communication remains open. The Knicks and Sessions' camp exchanged proposals on Friday and again Monday, without coming to terms on an offer sheet.

    The Knicks have until Thursday to negotiate exclusively with ex-Clipper Jason Williams, who has decided to end his retirement. By claiming Williams on waivers, the Knicks acquired the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]' exclusive negotiating rights. But a person with direct knowledge of the Knicks' plans said they intend to trade Williams if they can reach agreement with him on a contract. Since they acquired his rights by claiming him on waivers, the Knicks wouldn't have to wait the customary three months to trade him. It's a risk-free way to acquire another minor asset without incurring any cost. This is a significant change in approach for the Knicks, who have spent the past decade or so acquiring minor assets at extraordinary cost.

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    Not good news....I was hoping he would sign today. If the Knicks don't offer enough money to Sessions, the Bucks will match. Sign him already!

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    Newbie sufferingknickfan's Avatar
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    Looks like Lee will have to sign a 1 year deal, according to everything I've been reading. There's just no real market for him -- even close to what he's asking.

    Hopefully,we don't try to get too cute with the Sessions negotiations but need to still be smart. We may not be bidding against anybody, although there's talk that the Clippers have some interest. I think if we give him more than $3m/year, the Bucks won't match (I read that somewhere). I'm getting sick reading about this -- I just wish they'd sign him already!

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    The Clippers have interest but they can't offer him a starting job so that's a problem for them. It's highly unlikely that the Bucks will match an offer for Sessions, especially since they just signed Warrick. All the hold up is over length and amount of money. This particular story is getting real annoying now.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Still, Donnie's Ice Cold.

    He's wearing Sessions down.

    A 2nd round draftee who played 2nd division, coming off a season with only flashes of brilliance, can't afford to ask for only so much less than a Ron Artest.

    I think he's asking too much.

    Don't you?

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    The Knicks have until Thursday to negotiate exclusively with ex-Clipper Jason Williams, who has decided to end his retirement. By claiming Williams on waivers, the Knicks acquired the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]' exclusive negotiating rights. But a person with direct knowledge of the Knicks' plans said they intend to trade Williams if they can reach agreement with him on a contract. Since they acquired his rights by claiming him on waivers, the Knicks wouldn't have to wait the customary three months to trade him. It's a risk-free way to acquire another minor asset without incurring any cost. This is a significant change in approach for the Knicks, who have spent the past decade or so acquiring minor assets at extraordinary cost.
    This is the most interesting part of the piece. Getting Jason Williams only to trade him, as yet another asset? good thinking from Donnie. how he ended up trading Frederic Weiss' contract, and getting rid of Jerome James are truly intelligent moves. Donnie is dealing with agents Bartlestein and Chubby, both of whom want the max they can get for Lee and Sessions, respect. This is the reason DW is holding out offering deals, it's the damn agents who need to read the writing on the wall, and take what the market is (not) offering. Don't blame Donnie from the Bronx, he's going to sign Sessions, Wiliams, Lee and N8, and get rid of Jefferies and Curry.... maybe. we'll just have to wait and wait and wait and see.

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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    Still, Donnie's Ice Cold.

    He's wearing Sessions down.

    A 2nd round draftee who played 2nd division, coming off a season with only flashes of brilliance, can't afford to ask for only so much less than a Ron Artest.

    I think he's asking too much.

    Don't you?
    I don't think so. His PER would put him as a top 10 point guard (with the Bucks supporting cast-he didn't have much around him) and he had a PER of 16.46 as a shooting guard. I think if we continue to lower the contract, the Bucks will match it and then we get nothing. Give him 5.8 the first year so the Bucks don't match, then negotiate the salary after that.

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    Default Fartelstein Sucks

    "There's a possibility a one-year deal could happen," Bartelstein said. "We're not ruling anything out.
    If its a one-year deal, well try to get a one-year deal that compensates him for who he is."


    Meaning 10-12 Million Dollars.
    If Bartelstein forces Donnie into a sign and trade because he can't get his percentage,
    NYC owes Lee's agent a black eye. He gives Jews a bad name.

    aw sh*t, another racist remark.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CoolClyde
    "There's a possibility a one-year deal could happen," Bartelstein said. "We're not ruling anything out.
    If its a one-year deal, well try to get a one-year deal that compensates him for who he is."


    Meaning 10-12 Million Dollars.
    If Bartelstein forces Donnie into a sign and trade because he can't get his percentage,
    NYC owes Lee's agent a black eye. He gives Jews a bad name.

    aw sh*t, another racist remark.
    I wonder what people would say if someone used comments like:

    Marbury gives blacks a bad name.

    or

    Hitler gives Christians a bad name.

    It's a foolish comment on your part and one that was unnecessary. As a Jew it is hard for me to part with money but that was "my 2 cents".

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    If Lee wants a multi-year deal, take Walsh's offer for 8 mil/year. You'd be hard-pressed to find a GM stupid enough to think David Lee is actually worth twice the amount Ron Artest is, regardless of the fact that Artest took a discount to play with a contender. Lee's agent is playing this to make it look like the Knicks are lowballing Lee, but the reality is David Lee simply isn't a 12 mil/year guy. Even in a good economy, he's not 12 mil/year. 10 mil/year would be overpaying the guy.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bellringer21
    I don't think so. His PER would put him as a top 10 point guard (with the Bucks supporting cast-he didn't have much around him) and he had a PER of 16.46 as a shooting guard. I think if we continue to lower the contract, the Bucks will match it and then we get nothing. Give him 5.8 the first year so the Bucks don't match, then negotiate the salary after that.
    but there are mandatory increments in a salary I'm pretty sure. Something like that.

    And Milwaukee are teetering on the edge of luxury tax payments as well. They just brought in a good first year pg who'll be instantly cheaper than Sessions for the next 5 years, so why would they roll an ill favored dice?

    Keep him keen Donnie. You icy ninja.

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    Yeah, I just read about it just now. The Bucks are on the luxury tax threshold. Why would they bother to match an offer that would put them over the luxury tax when they already have Luke Ridnour and Brandon Jennings? It makes little sense for them to match ANY offer for Sessions, but if you lowball Sessions he could just go to the Clippers. I'd say 5 mil/year would be a decent contract, and they should structure it so his 2010 salary is as low as possible so as to not interfere with cap space.

    One thing though - if Donnie signs Sessions, he's going to have to play Eddy Curry and Jared Jeffries and find a way to get rid of them...

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    Member hoop115's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    but there are mandatory increments in a salary I'm pretty sure. Something like that.

    And Milwaukee are teetering on the edge of luxury tax payments as well. They just brought in a good first year pg who'll be instantly cheaper than Sessions for the next 5 years, so why would they roll an ill favored dice?

    Keep him keen Donnie. You icy ninja.
    Annual increases in salary are NOT mandatory and can actually be decreased. Teams usually add the annual increases as an incentive for the player to sign with their team.

    Hope this article helps explain it better...

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Here's what I do not understand about the Sessions negotiations:

    1- We're going to need a PG in 2010. Simple as that. It might be attractive to Lebron if we actually had a PG here in NY already who knows the system D/at is running- meaning a PG who has at least 1-year experience running the show.

    2- We know if we sign Sessions at 3-mil per year, MIL will probably match. SO, 5 years at 3 mil wont cut it- Must be more than 15 mil to get it done.

    3- Sessions agent wants the max (full MLE), which is 5 years 32.3 million.

    4- Walsh is offering slightly less, but not sure what exactly that is.

    5- Clippers are also interested.

    SO, what does this leave us with? Well, for one thing.... Walsh and Sessions cannot be that far apart. I'm sure Walsh has to be in the 20-25 million range. On top of that, I can't fathom why Sessions would want to opt for LAC instead of NYK. Hmmm, play for that other team in LA, sit on the bench, maybe play.... in an iso offense OR be the man to run the show, in D'ant 'made-for-pg- up-tempo, running showtime offense.... AND, oh yeah.... MAYBE get the chance to play with Lebron (or other stars) and make a run at a title in 2010-2012.

    Suffice to say, getting the starting gig in NY, in this system, has to be really appealing. AND, since Walsh is probably already in the mid to low 20 mil range, I do not envision Sessions going to LA for a mere few million.

    I SENSE Walsh might come up a tad, if Sessions comes down AND give Sessions an out after 3 years (so he can go make more money).

    I predict the deal comes in around 25-28 million for 4-5 years, again with an opt out after 3.

    It just makes too much sense for both sides. I see them dealing Jeffries after/before so clear up that 2010 salary. We like Jeffries, but Darko in essence has taken his spot.

    From there I see LEE taking a 1 year deal. Probably Nate as well.

    Sessions
    Hughes
    Chandler
    Gallinari
    Lee

    Harrington and N8 are the instant offense (6th man A & B)
    Duhon is backup PG; Milicic is backup C
    Douglas and Hill fight for minutes, spots in the rotation based on play.

    * I think we'll see a Zach Radnolph scenario with Eddie Curry, assuming he's in decent enough shape to get on the court. They'll attempt to give him minutes and chance to showcase himself- and dump him first chance they get.

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hoop115
    Annual increases in salary are NOT mandatory and can actually be decreased. Teams usually add the annual increases as an incentive for the player to sign with their team.

    Hope this article helps explain it better...

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    I see.

    Makes perfect sense. That's a sick article btw. Hopefully Donnie can get away with his final offer being:

    1st YEAR (2009-2010) = $5,000,000
    2nd YEAR (2010-2011) = $4,600,000 (Max 8% decrease)
    3rd YEAR (2011-2012) = $5,000,000 (Max 8% increase)
    4th YEAR (2012-2013) = $5,400,000 (Max 8% increase)
    5th YEAR (2013-2014) = $5,800,000 (Max 8% increase)

    Sum Total = $25,800,000
    Average Annual Salary = $5,160,000


    That's still good money for the 56th pick

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