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Thread: How to shed 10 million w out trading Curry/ not having a pick next year a good thing?

  1. #16
    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    I could see Wilson and Jared going

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by New New York
    So essentially the nice gesture that Walsh extended to Lee in giving him 7 million as oppossed to the qualifying offer will now mean we can not afford to re-sign him?


    So had we given him and Nate the QO then we could have easily retained their Bird Rights being that it would've costed us a little more than 6 million for both as opposed to just 10 million for Lee


    I like Donnie, but he did not play that one right at all! I know it was a "nice thing to do" to give David the money, but it looks like it may have been really dumb if what you say is true.


    There has to be a catch somewhere, I just dont think Donnie is that foolish!

    Wait...... but how soon does a team have to renounce a player's Bird Rights before it impacts their cap?
    We will only be able to resign Lee as an unrestricted free agent. We will be in the mix with everybody else and can't exceed our cap space with an offer. We can forget about resigning Nate though. With best case projections having us with approx $28 mil in cap space, 1 max at $17 mil leaves us with $11 mil to resign both Nate and Lee. That's not enough.

    Yes, had we given Lee and Nate the qualifying offer, we could have afforded to retained their Bird Rights and signed a max player and then signed Lee and Nate regardless of our cap situation.

    In all honesty, I think Donnie has no intentions of resigning Lee and Nate next year. If we get Lebron he would most likely play PF in D'Antoni's system. Donnie knows Lee is not meant to play C. Therefore he will let him walk.

    I think Donnie will sign Lebron for the max and then use the remaining $11 mil to get a Center (would Amare take $11 mil to play with Lebron and D'Antoni?). Then he'll probably re-offer Duhon the mid-level exception because there are no other PGs available. Then try and trade Curry's and Jeffries' expiring contracts for a SG. I see this as being a highly probable and very logical approach to the 2010 offseason.

  3. #18
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    Default 2010 Salary Cap Space

    In early July the League informed the NBA teams that it projected the 2010 Salary Cap, which is a function of revenue, to be somewhere between $50.4M and $53.6M. The mid-point between those two numbers is $52M.

    Recently Walsh announced that in 2010 the Knicks would be about $21M under the Cap. Since the Cap has yet to be set definitively, I am not sure what Cap number he was projecting.

    The 2010 committed contract amounts for Curry, Jefferies, Gallinari, Chandler, Hill and Douglas add up to about $27.33M. Barring trades, these contracts will all be included in 2010 "Team Salary." Because free agent contracts, i.e,, Lee, Nate, Harrington, etc., are also included in the "Team Salary" and in amounts exceeding their 2009 contracts, we can assume that the Knicks will renounce their Bird or other rights to avoid inclusion in the "Team Salary." As I understand it, unused mid-level and bi-annual exceptions are also included unless renounced. I believe last year's mid-level was about $5.8M. I am not sure, but I believe the bi-annual was about $1.9M.

    Lets assume the Knicks renounce both the Bird rights to their free agents and the two otherwise included exceptions. That would leave us with only six players. The roster for "Team Salary" purposes must be at least 12. The other six positions, for Team Salary purposes must be filled up with assumed minimum salary players. The minimum player salary for 2010 is $473,604. For six minimum salary players the "Team Salary" will be increased by $2,841,624. If we add that to $27.33M, we will have a minimum 2010 Team Salary of about $30,171M. If the League Cap projections prove to be accurate, that will give us between $20M and $23M in 2010 Cap space.

    A max contract is 30% of the salary cap. On the League projections, a max contract will cost between $15M and $16M.

    Without trades of both Curry and Jefferies, it will be impossible to get two max contract free agents. Without a trade of at least Jefferies, we will only be able to sign one of our free agents.

    If we can trade Jefferies and avoid a contract extending into 2010, we can sign perhaps two of our free agents and one max contract. But if our 2010 team includes a max free agent and two of our current free agents, our "Team Salary" in 2011 even without Curry's contract is not likely to leave room for a max free agent in 2011.

    But then again, in 2011 there may be a new, and more favorable for Cap purposes, Collective Bargaining Agreement.



  4. #19
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    We will only be able to resign Lee as an unrestricted free agent. We will be in the mix with everybody else and can't exceed our cap space with an offer. We can forget about resigning Nate though. With best case projections having us with approx $28 mil in cap space, 1 max at $17 mil leaves us with $11 mil to resign both Nate and Lee. That's not enough.

    Yes, had we given Lee and Nate the qualifying offer, we could have afforded to retained their Bird Rights and signed a max player and then signed Lee and Nate regardless of our cap situation.

    In all honesty, I think Donnie has no intentions of resigning Lee and Nate next year. If we get Lebron he would most likely play PF in D'Antoni's system. Donnie knows Lee is not meant to play C. Therefore he will let him walk.

    I think Donnie will sign Lebron for the max and then use the remaining $11 mil to get a Center (would Amare take $11 mil to play with Lebron and D'Antoni?). Then he'll probably re-offer Duhon the mid-level exception because there are no other PGs available. Then try and trade Curry's and Jeffries' expiring contracts for a SG. I see this as being a highly probable and very logical approach to the 2010 offseason.

    That would make giving him 7 million even more perplexing! Why pay the extra luxuary tax for a player that he is not intending on keeping?

    Why wasnt Lee's camp able to be convinced how he wouldve made more as a Knick next summer had he just signed the QO this season?

    If David Lee walks next season after we paid him more money than we had to this year, than this was one of the dumbest moves in Knick history including some of Isiah's moves.....which is why I think there has to be a loophole in this rule that we are not considrering, no way Donnie is that dumb....is he?

    About trading Curry and/or Jefferies for a long term deal next summer, I agree! I think we could get Chi to trade us Hinrich for Curry in a cost cutting move. Or maybe even Sac giving us Kevin Martin.....like you said still a long shot.

  5. #20
    Member DANUTZ39's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by New New York
    So essentially the nice gesture that Walsh extended to Lee in giving him 7 million as oppossed to the qualifying offer will now mean we can not afford to re-sign him?


    So had we given him and Nate the QO then we could have easily retained their Bird Rights being that it would've costed us a little more than 6 million for both as opposed to just 10 million for Lee


    I like Donnie, but he did not play that one right at all! I know it was a "nice thing to do" to give David the money, but it looks like it may have been really dumb if what you say is true.


    There has to be a catch somewhere, I just dont think Donnie is that foolish!

    Wait...... but how soon does a team have to renounce a player's Bird Rights before it impacts their cap?

    1) Well the thing with the bird rights goes like this:

    To retain Lee's and Nate's bird rigts next year will cost 1.5 x their this year salaries so 10.5 mill for Lee and 6 mill for Nate.

    On the other hand if they would had signed the QQ their bird rights would be 3x the QQ, so that means 7.8 mill for Lee and 8.7 mill for Nate. Exactly the same amount.

    So what Walsh did was give them some respect and injectives to work hard this seasson and also keep them loyal to the team.

    2) There is no time limit on when you have to renounce your free agents bird rights. Teams can renounce yhem the day before signing another free agent in order to clear cap space for that player. Walsh will renounce couple of them comes july 1 next year but will hold on to some(Lee, Nate, Harrington?) till he is going to need that cap to sign a max player.

  6. #21
    Member DANUTZ39's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    We will only be able to resign Lee as an unrestricted free agent. We will be in the mix with everybody else and can't exceed our cap space with an offer. We can forget about resigning Nate though. With best case projections having us with approx $28 mil in cap space, 1 max at $17 mil leaves us with $11 mil to resign both Nate and Lee. That's not enough.

    Yes, had we given Lee and Nate the qualifying offer, we could have afforded to retained their Bird Rights and signed a max player and then signed Lee and Nate regardless of our cap situation.

    In all honesty, I think Donnie has no intentions of resigning Lee and Nate next year. If we get Lebron he would most likely play PF in D'Antoni's system. Donnie knows Lee is not meant to play C. Therefore he will let him walk.

    I think Donnie will sign Lebron for the max and then use the remaining $11 mil to get a Center (would Amare take $11 mil to play with Lebron and D'Antoni?). Then he'll probably re-offer Duhon the mid-level exception because there are no other PGs available. Then try and trade Curry's and Jeffries' expiring contracts for a SG. I see this as being a highly probable and very logical approach to the 2010 offseason.

    See my above post.

    IT would cost us the same amount and would had the same impact on our cap cuz to retain a player sign for QQ it takes 3 times that amount.

  7. #22
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oldtimer
    In early July the League informed the NBA teams that it projected the 2010 Salary Cap, which is a function of revenue, to be somewhere between $50.4M and $53.6M. The mid-point between those two numbers is $52M.

    Recently Walsh announced that in 2010 the Knicks would be about $21M under the Cap. Since the Cap has yet to be set definitively, I am not sure what Cap number he was projecting.

    The 2010 committed contract amounts for Curry, Jefferies, Gallinari, Chandler, Hill and Douglas add up to about $27.33M. Barring trades, these contracts will all be included in 2010 "Team Salary." Because free agent contracts, i.e,, Lee, Nate, Harrington, etc., are also included in the "Team Salary" and in amounts exceeding their 2009 contracts, we can assume that the Knicks will renounce their Bird or other rights to avoid inclusion in the "Team Salary." As I understand it, unused mid-level and bi-annual exceptions are also included unless renounced. I believe last year's mid-level was about $5.8M. I am not sure, but I believe the bi-annual was about $1.9M.

    Lets assume the Knicks renounce both the Bird rights to their free agents and the two otherwise included exceptions. That would leave us with only six players. The roster for "Team Salary" purposes must be at least 12. The other six positions, for Team Salary purposes must be filled up with assumed minimum salary players. The minimum player salary for 2010 is $473,604. For six minimum salary players the "Team Salary" will be increased by $2,841,624. If we add that to $27.33M, we will have a minimum 2010 Team Salary of about $30,171M. If the League Cap projections prove to be accurate, that will give us between $20M and $23M in 2010 Cap space.

    A max contract is 30% of the salary cap. On the League projections, a max contract will cost between $15M and $16M.

    Without trades of both Curry and Jefferies, it will be impossible to get two max contract free agents. Without a trade of at least Jefferies, we will only be able to sign one of our free agents.

    If we can trade Jefferies and avoid a contract extending into 2010, we can sign perhaps two of our free agents and one max contract. But if our 2010 team includes a max free agent and two of our current free agents, our "Team Salary" in 2011 even without Curry's contract is not likely to leave room for a max free agent in 2011.

    But then again, in 2011 there may be a new, and more favorable for Cap purposes, Collective Bargaining Agreement.
    Thank you Oldtimer for providing those numbers. I was basing my numbers on the "best case" cap projections. Your numbers give me more concern.

    After a max contract we may not have enough to even make Lee an offer. Although I doubt any max free agent would sign with a team with Curry, Jeffries, Gallo, Chandler, Hill, Douglas and a bunch of minimum salary scrub players.

    It may be best for Donnie to just sign the players that play well for us this year (Lee, Nate, maybe Harrington, Duhon or Darko) and then go after a max free agent when Curry's and Jeffries' salaries are off the books in 2011. This is probably the best scenario. Otherwise he have a max free agent and a shell of a team.

    It's obvious Curry can not be traded before the deadline. With the cap being projected to be so low I think it's time to rethink the 2010 plan. It's success is riding on the hope that Curry and Jeffries could be moved and that is looking less likely.

  8. #23
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DANUTZ39
    See my above post.

    IT would cost us the same amount and would had the same impact on our cap cuz to retain a player sign for QQ it takes 3 times that amount.
    I was unaware it cost 3 times the qualifying offer to reatin a player's Bird Rights. Wow. Bird Rights were really never in the equation then. Bird Rights aren't much help for a team under the cap and the majority of it's roster as free agents.

  9. #24
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DANUTZ39
    1) Well the thing with the bird rights goes like this:

    To retain Lee's and Nate's bird rigts next year will cost 1.5 x their this year salaries so 10.5 mill for Lee and 6 mill for Nate.

    On the other hand if they would had signed the QQ their bird rights would be 3x the QQ, so that means 7.8 mill for Lee and 8.7 mill for Nate. Exactly the same amount.

    So what Walsh did was give them some respect and injectives to work hard this seasson and also keep them loyal to the team.

    2) There is no time limit on when you have to renounce your free agents bird rights. Teams can renounce yhem the day before signing another free agent in order to clear cap space for that player. Walsh will renounce couple of them comes july 1 next year but will hold on to some(Lee, Nate, Harrington?) till he is going to need that cap to sign a max player.
    Thanks for the info!

    Good to know, I just knew Donnie was too smart to make amueture move like that!

  10. #25
    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    With the salary cap going down for the first time in I don't know how long, it is very, very unlikely that Walsh will be able to trade Jeffries or Curry without taking on salary. At least not until both contracts are in their final year. But even then, we'd most likely have to take on salary in order to make the trade.

    Someone said something about future talent. Where is it? Chandler and Gallo are role players that think they can score. D'Antoni keeps talking Gallo up as if he's the next Larry Bird which is bull****. The kid should be forced to rebound and block a few shots and play some defense. So should Chandler.

    For this year Harrington, Hughes and Robinson should be the focal points of our offense.

  11. #26
    Veteran Trin_Starr's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by knicksfancris
    look people the plan is not only 2010 u guys a ****ing dumb for thinking that we are only getting one player then in 2011 we are getting antoher player 2011 is good also u have a lot of free agents that a very good like chris paul and carmelo anthony. the knicks are not going to trade their future talents
    Oh ok - so I'm ****ing dumb?
    Don't you know how to read the forum rules???

    I guess not.....so here's a present for you.

  12. #27
    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    ahhh I love seeing the mods again

  13. #28
    ★The Floor General★ Knicks4Life_1985's Avatar
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    Let's throw all this cap stuff out the window for a minute having a high draft choice on your team only makes us better. Isiah ****ed us up we could be thinking about adding Lebron and a fresh player now we have to hope not to lose to many games or we will look stupid and end up given utah a top 5 pick.

  14. #29
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    Originally Posted by jpz17
    ahhh I love seeing the mods again
    What are mods?

    Seriously I do not know

  15. #30
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    Or they could pay a g a y limo driver to give him some co k and hopefully hell catch something and have to retire///thats how you get rid of curry chicke.

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