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Thread: Knicks Will Not Sign Iverson

  1. #16
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    I think the fear Walsh has is that Iverson comes in and hogs the ball. I think in order for the Walsh plan to move fwd....Curry and Jeffries have to be dealt.

    Sure, if we bring in Iverson and let him run the offense.... We might win 35 games. Iverson-Hughes-Gallo-Lee-Curry makes for a decent starting 5. BUT, is winning 35 games worth it if it means we can't deal Curry?

    I think Walsh wants to run the offense through big Eddy. Pump up his value, drive up his stock and deal him the moment somebody makes a worthwhile offer. HECK, Walsh might even be ****y enough to think he may be able to get something more than just cap relief and escaping from Curry's 2010 committment- dare we say we also get a young player or a draft pick?

    OR... as somebody suggested.... Maybe Walsh received a phone call from another GM and hinted another deal could be possible (Ellis, Mcgrady, Bayless, Augustine)?

    Maybe even after 12-15 when we can deal Lee or N8?

    OR, perhaps the owner (Dolan) stepped in and killed the deal.

  2. #17
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    It was a long shot given how tight Walsh has been with Dolan's money, the Knicks would have had to pay double for him with the LT. AI would have been a rental player for this year and probably could have helped the Knicks this year but I guess Donnie is looking at 2010 and beyond.

  3. #18
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    hey, first post here, just joined the board, but a long time knicks fan.

    I think the question is what would the knicks have gained by signing AI for a year. I think walsh figured that even with AI this team probably wouldn't make the playoffs, so really what would you gain? a slightly less painful losing season and a few more wins.

    what would you lose? well, you'd have a player with a notoriously poor work ethic in your locker room alongside your prospects, and you'd have a constant distraction with at least the possibility of another marbury-like meltdown midseason. locker room turmoil and bad press and a player fueding with a coach all season is not exactly the best way to lure a top free agent next year.

    and you'd probably end up drafting lower next year if you did manage to move up from 13-15 in the east to (at most) 9-11.

    unless you really thought that AI would be enough to drag this team in to the playoffs, there didn't seem to be much point.

  4. #19
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by automatic
    hey, first post here, just joined the board, but a long time knicks fan.

    I think the question is what would the knicks have gained by signing AI for a year. I think walsh figured that even with AI this team probably wouldn't make the playoffs, so really what would you gain? a slightly less painful losing season and a few more wins.

    what would you lose? well, you'd have a player with a notoriously poor work ethic in your locker room alongside your prospects, and you'd have a constant distraction with at least the possibility of another marbury-like meltdown midseason. locker room turmoil and bad press and a player fueding with a coach all season is not exactly the best way to lure a top free agent next year.

    and you'd probably end up drafting lower next year if you did manage to move up from 13-15 in the east to (at most) 9-11.

    unless you really thought that AI would be enough to drag this team in to the playoffs, there didn't seem to be much point.
    Knicks do not own their draft pick this year- they traded it away (UTAH now has it) in the Marbury deal. SO, this season would be a disaster if they end up with a top-5 lottery pick and have to sit back and watch the JAZZ make their selection.

    I think this team desperately needs to find a way to avoid that fate. THEY MUST won 30-35 games. I think with Curry back, and the idea that something better will present itself on the trade front, is main reason they decided to pass on AI.

    We'll see what happens.

    FOR NOW, the Knicks must forcefeed Curry and Jeffries. They have to do this b/c they need to trade both of them. After that, they'll look to see if anybody will give us something for Lee or N8 or anyone else.

  5. #20
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    my bad on the draft pick. winning would be nice, but for me, i won't be satisfied with winning 30-35 games, or even going .500 or so and sneaking in to the playoffs. i wanna see a contender, a team that is going to be there year after year, and that's going to challenge for a trip to the finals.

    if that means some short term pain while we play youngsters and prospects and bump up the trade value of some guys who aren't in our long term plans, so be it. it's more important to me to see this team take positive steps to build for the future than it is to see it make short term moves to barely shore up the present.

  6. #21
    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by automatic
    my bad on the draft pick. winning would be nice, but for me, i won't be satisfied with winning 30-35 games, or even going .500 or so and sneaking in to the playoffs. i wanna see a contender, a team that is going to be there year after year, and that's going to challenge for a trip to the finals.

    if that means some short term pain while we play youngsters and prospects and bump up the trade value of some guys who aren't in our long term plans, so be it. it's more important to me to see this team take positive steps to build for the future than it is to see it make short term moves to barely shore up the present.
    I totally agree with that. I admit I wanted A1. I would have offered DUHON to ORL for a bag of balls and signed Iverson. Why not right? But in the end it really doesn't matter I guess.

    SURE, I think AI would have been a positive influence to a guy like Toney Douglas. He would also have shown these yahoos how to compete HARD every single game.... regardless. BUT, it's like what you said.... what would it all mean anyway?

    To me, priority #1 is to showcase E-Curry and try to get something for him. Not just dump him but also pick up something. In this sense, why let AI run the offense. In this respect, the future is better served if they simply run the offense through Curry.

    Priority #2 is to find a PG somehow (if we can) via a trade. Maybe deal N8 to LAL for Famar; maybe Curry to CHA for Augustine; maybe LEE to POR for Fernandez or Bayless.

    Priority #3 s to obtain a 1st round selection if possible. Not the end of the world here, but it would be nice right?

    Priority #4 is to make some sort of lateral move to bring an expiring contract (say a Curry to HOU for Mcgrady).

    Finally, Priority #5 is to swing for the fences and make a deal that helps this team beyond 2010. LIKE dealing Chandler, Curry, Jeffries & Mobely's contract to GSW for Ellis, Randolph & Turiaf.

    If WALSH can pull off a miracle this season it would be to rid ourselves of Jeffries & Curry, while bringing back something in return.

    After this, developing Gallo, Chandler, Douglas & Hill is key. Doing this w/out putting too much emphasis on them having to do more than what they can right now, while avoiding tagging them with a losing stigma.... This is the hard part.

  7. #22
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    Walsh should make good use of Cuttino Mobley's insured contract, it might be our ace in the hole.

    Obtaining a draft pick for next year would be pretty challenging. We'd probably have to give up a half decent player - but honestly, with the exception of Gallo, Douglas, and Hill, there aren't really any players on the Knicks that I'd mind parting with. To be honest the team is so bad as it is that they could pretty much just export everybody and I wouldn't care. It's too bad that while most teams would just tank the season and get a lottery pick, Isiah traded ours. When will we ever be rid of the curse of Isiah Thomas?

  8. #23
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    Donnie did the right thing fellas.

    It sucks that we are this bad of a team, but Iverson really has more costs than the 1 mil deal.

    The cost of limiting the growth of Gallinari and the other youngsters outweighs Iverson coming in an helping us make a run for the 10th seed.

    Think of this entire season as a sunk cost because there is no playoffs ambitions or reality here. It sucks, but its the truth.

    Iverson would have been a side show to distract fans while we wait for the offseason. The meaning of this season is growth and development of fundamentals. Thats all I want to see. Thats all we can hope for.

  9. #24
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    Should of brought A.I. to Knickland, I'm pissed dammit. It's torture to see us this bad, just for the next 71 games would have been fun to see a pure scorer and somebody that plays with heart each freaking play. The boos will only get louder with the losses forthcoming. Thanks Walsh, you just threw our playoff chances out the window.

  10. #25
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    Default The Answer is No

    Why is the answer NO?

    (Coach Mike D’Antoni said Iverson would have come in and played 40 minutes a game, taking playing time away from others who need to be on the court to continue their growth.
    “We just didn’t think right now we wanted to have that dominant force on the team right now,” D’Antoni said.)

    So, stop playing Duhon, Hughes and Harrington and every other player whose contract expires in 2010, and start Douglas, Gallo and Hill for the rest of the year. What's the point in playing anyone if they're not going to be here next year?

    (“I happen to think that it’s not the right place for Allen, either,” Walsh said. “I think Allen should go to a team that he can push into a contending situation or a playoff situation and I think he will, because he’s good enough to do that.”)

    Of course, why should Walsh consider the Knicks to be a playoff team? The Knicks save $2Million in salary to DLEE and N8 if they DON'T make playoffs, maybe that's the Dolan strategy... let's just roll over and give the best lottery pick possible to Utah!

    Stupid f*cking management!

    Walsh: "well, we didn't really have a feel for Brandon Jennings..."

    Condaleeza Rice: "well, we didn't really think they would fly airplanes into OUR buildings"

  11. #26
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by CoolClyde
    Why is the answer NO?

    (Coach Mike D’Antoni said Iverson would have come in and played 40 minutes a game, taking playing time away from others who need to be on the court to continue their growth.
    “We just didn’t think right now we wanted to have that dominant force on the team right now,” D’Antoni said.)

    So, stop playing Duhon, Hughes and Harrington and every other player whose contract expires in 2010, and start Douglas, Gallo and Hill for the rest of the year. What's the point in playing anyone if they're not going to be here next year?

    (“I happen to think that it’s not the right place for Allen, either,” Walsh said. “I think Allen should go to a team that he can push into a contending situation or a playoff situation and I think he will, because he’s good enough to do that.”)

    Of course, why should Walsh consider the Knicks to be a playoff team? The Knicks save $2Million in salary to DLEE and N8 if they DON'T make playoffs, maybe that's the Dolan strategy... let's just roll over and give the best lottery pick possible to Utah!

    Stupid f*cking management!

    Walsh: "well, we didn't really have a feel for Brandon Jennings..."

    Condaleeza Rice: "well, we didn't really think they would fly airplanes into OUR buildings"
    Damn Cc don't hurt'em.Imo... D'Ant and Walsh saw that #3 and had bad memories. I think this (non)move speaks volumes. It says over the summer they didn't plan on making the playoffs anyway. It says they didn't think they need a guard as much as we thought. More D'Ant double talk... it's ridiculous! Do I have to list this n*ggas nonsensicle double talk? its crazy! Danillos the best now he's hurt! didn't like curry, now you do! didn't like T doug now u want minutes for him? wtf??? I been saying at LEAST start / play more of: TD-Gallo-Hill-curry sh*t you aint plan on winning anyway! One...

  12. #27
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    There was no excuse to not sign Iverson other than Mike D/Dolan did not want another Stephon Marbury type of attitude/ or type of player. I wanted marbury to play and he didn't get a minute, now I want Iverson to be a Knick and there is no possible way. Donnie said he doesn't want to hurt the development of the young player when you dont have to take away minutes from any young players! AND Mike D is not even playing Douglas or Jordan Hill, so what development are we speaking of?!?!?!

    Take away minutes from Duhon! It's not that hard. And to mention Eddy Curry as an "important" piece for the future was the biggest hunk of B.S Donnie has said since being here. Eddy is here to showcase and be traded, nothing more. If anything Iverson would have dished Curry better passes and made Curry look better. Iverson would have cost a veterans minimum of 1.4 million, Duhon is making 6 million this year, I am disgusted with this move.

  13. #28
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Thumbs down Eddy gives credit where it's due, but he's still a ****tard

    The New York Knickerbockers are playing with fire and it might continue to burn past 2010 if plans to renovate fail next summer. I give them credit for not signing Allen Iverson, but I sense they in turn will face the same fate when LeBron James, Dwyane Wade, Chris Bosh and Amare Stoudemire stay at home or land somewhere else next season.
    They backed off Iverson for one simple reason: Mike D’Antoni did his homework by calling around to former coaches and that sealed the deal for a player that has failed to realize what is happening to him is not personal. It’s a message that his time at the top of the food chain is over. He is not first in line anymore. Although being the fourth, fifth of sixth option can still pay the bills, he would rather be sitting at home than play backup to a young player. Why did he think Jerry Stackhouse fought him tooth and nail his rookie year when Iverson took over 1,500 shots? This NBA is a young man’s game and when the Association feels like it’s time to move you to the backseat, you have two choices – put your seat belt on and let someone else learn to drive or get out.
    I give the Knicks credit for understanding Iverson would not be the answer, but the same stubbornness Iverson exerts can best describe the organization and head coach Mike D’Antoni.
    The Knicks are riding into the summer of 2010 with the belief that James, Wade, Bosh or Stoudemire will join the Knicks.
    Why? Let’s see.
    New York is the Mecca of basketball, New York is a endorsement extravaganza, New York’s nightlife is second to none, New Yorkers understand the game better than most, if you win in New York you are held in high regard throughout the basketball universe, etcetera, etcetera.
    Those assumptions are correct if you win a title, but what New Yorkers must come to realize is that the draw of yesteryear is not here anymore. The Knicks got extremely close during the years of Patrick Ewing and since he left it has been a downward spiral. The idea of signing on as the savior and quite possibility facing the negative aspect of playing for the Knicks will scare any superstar including LeBron.
    These superstars also realize they will not win alone and that sucking up most of the salary cap will lock up the ability to put the right pieces around them. The Knicks, in their exuberance to cut costs, will probably lose the major talent they have in David Lee, thus leaving a star with a roster of question marks.
    Why would LeBron or Wade want to leave an environment where the fans understand their minor shortcomings and where they have teammates who know how to give them the space they need to perform?
    The only reason would be personal, but the scary scenario for the Knicks is that these two targets are as unselfish as they come and already have endorsements that will last a lifetime.
    Bosh and Stoudemire are big-time possibilities, but they already play in an up-tempo system. Bosh is having a career season with arguably one of the top 5 point guards in Jose Calderon. Amare is playing with Steve Nash, who is the reason we talk about 7 Seconds or Less.
    The Knicks have dug a serious hole in terms of perception. The only way out would be to change the type of basketball they play and prove to James and Wade that they have solid players to surround them in a system conducive to their abilities.
    Maybe there would be a chance, but that depends on the Knicks other stubborn problem.
    Mike D’Antoni is a very good coach, but his stubbornness in sticking with a system that is weak without Steve Nash, Chris Paul, Deron Williams or (oops!) Brandon Jennings will lead to failure. He needs to change and he has yet to give in to the thought. He has to recognize that LeBron and Wade like to lope and then explode. They don’t play fast constantly and they would struggle playing with guys who jack up three-point shots with 20 seconds on the shot clock. They like to facilitate and control the action and not being allowed to do so would cause major problems.
    D’Antoni has a piece in Eddy Curry that could allow him to prove he can integrate a controlled offense.
    Even the Phoenix Suns, who are back to the run-and-gun style, are only winning because they are not trying to run for the full 48 minutes. They are incorporating a good half-court offense, rebounding and focusing more on defense.
    The Knicks will probably win less than 20 games this season (**** you Eddy. You Euro hating faggot) and that is why D’Antoni should start showing that he can indeed become a more versatile coach. He has to realize that LeBron and Wade understand you will not win a championship if defense is not a focal point. He has to give them a glimpse of who they might be possibly playing with. Again, the thought of frustrated New York fans will strike fear in any great player.
    I believe James and Wade will stay where they are and Bosh will become the Knicks’ main target. I love the growth and abilities of Bosh, but who wants to sign with a team knowing Knick fans will be irate and despondent over not adding James and Wade?
    Donnie Walsh is one the most respected general managers ever, but I would really hate to be in his shoes next summer.
    Last edited by Crazy⑧s; Dec 22, 2009 at 11:47. Reason: spelling....... AGAIN!

  14. #29
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    1. the Knicks will win more then 20 games. we're at 11 wins right now, and winners of 7 of our last 10 (including games against some good competition). You really don't think that we have another ~10 wins in this season?

    2. Bosh is doing this season so far without the help of jose, who is injured. I think he would be a great piece of the knicks and would run that pick and roll better then dlee while giving a much bigger presence in the offensive paint and on defense.

    3. The opportunity, the challenge, the mystique that is playing with the knicks is something not for the faint of heart. If Bosh, Wade and LBJ want to prove their worth and MAN UP to the challenge presented then they will come to the knicks. Otherwise, **** 'em.

    All i know is that going forward from here, things should be better for the knicks. I expect to see playoff teams from 2010 onwards. good coaching and management will lead this team out of the dumps on the backs of players who are willing and able to do the job.

  15. #30
    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    good coaching and management will lead this team out of the dumps on the backs of players who are willing and able to do the job.
    It's always been the way. I hope it happens for all our sakes... It's gonna be an ugly board at KO if not. It's gonna be an even more enjoyable site if it does.

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