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Thread: 3 Reasons why the Knicks are losers

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Post 3 Reasons why the Knicks are losers

    In no particular order...

    1. Player personnel - This team is primarily composed of role players. The only players that can be seriously considered as a starters on a good team is Harrington, Lee and maybe Gallo if he ever learns how to move without the ball. Everyone else is best suited as role players. These guys bring a certain value to the team, but they are heavily relied on and usually don't measure up to the opposing teams' talent. It's like our starters are 2nd unit quality and our bench is even worse. Nate and Harrington will put up numbers off the bench but they barely add anything other than that. Our starting PG is 3rd string at best and we have no real center or interior intimidator.

    2. Coaching - Dantoni was one of the best in Phoenix but reality has set in and he has been exposed as narrow and linear. His coaching only extends to SSOL and doesn't properly adjust to maximize execution. There is certainly a responsibility of all the players to perform on the court every game, but they don't always do it and it is the coach's job to motivate and or substitute as necessary to create the right chemistry. We all know Gallo's playing time and shots should be increased, but for some reason Dantoni refuses to address these issues. I mentioned above that Gallo needs to learn how to move without the ball. He also needs to be more agressive among other things but this is what practice is for and if Dantoni can't draw up some plays for him them he will continue to hang around the 3pt line all game. I guess that's not a problem since Dantoni never yells at anyone for taking a 3 pointer no matter how awful it is. Dantoni doesn't understand how to win in crunch time either, probably because he doesn't understand the difference between low and high percentage shots.

    David Lee is not a center and cannot defend the position let alone his natural PF position. Dantoni continues to stick with this move and it hurts the team defensively. Why not start Darko and limit his shots to put backs and anything right under the basket? It would improve the starting rotation a bit defensively and Lee would still get his numbers. These are just a few of Dantoni's non-coaching moves that should have been explored already. He's recently shortened the rotation which has basically cut all of Hill and TD's minutes. Why? I though the reason we passed on AI was because we wanted to develop our young talent. Coaching staff doesn't have a clue. Mark Jackson would have been a better fit for the team IMO.

    3. Too many pending Free Agents - Most of these guys (mostly Harrington) have no vested interest in the success of the Knicks and it shows. You can clearly see that Harrington has no interest in making anyone else look good but himself. These guys are playing for their next contracts and rather show everyone what type of numbers they can put up. Let's be real, although the Knicks suck there will still be teams looking to acquire bench players and we have plenty of them so I don't put much stock in teams not being interested in players coming from a bad team. These guys know the team is heading in a different direction and there isn't room for many of the current players. I don't think guys are playing at their highest level on most nights because they don't feel like Knicks pshycologically. They just wear the uniform but don't have a feel for it like Starks, Ewing or Oakley did. That Sacramento game is a perfect example of how guys just don't care every game.
    Last edited by nyk_nyk; Nov 30, 2009 at 10:51. Reason: Bolding title

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    I believe that most of the players that will be free agents after this season are doing their best to scare away Lebron James and the other superstars that will become free agents.

    Why would anyone want to play for this pathetic organization? The best thing that could happen to the Knicks right now is if the Nets move to Brooklyn and steal the New York City fan base from them.I know that the Nets are playing like the worst team in the NBA right now but if they find a way to sign Lebron James,draft John Wall and get a new arena, I don't think that there would be anything that James Dolan could do about those things but to sell the Knicks to a better owner.

    I refuse to go to a Knick game while they're being owned by this guy.What hope can a fan of a basketball team have with an owner that cannot assemble the right coaching staff, the right management and the right player personnel? You would think that a man that has a billion dollars would be able to hire people that could turn an organization into a winning product but this is not the case with James Dolan.He proves every year that having money doesn't necessarily make you a wise businessman and a good decision maker.You might as well wait for the next solar eclipse to happen than to waste your time waiting on the Knicks to have a winning season.The Knicks play in a city along with seven other local teams and they're the worst team to represent the city of New York because they're owned by someone that lacks basic knowledge of the game.
    Last edited by johnstarky; Nov 30, 2009 at 13:06.

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    3 reasons why the Knicks are Losers
    Dolan
    Walsh
    Dantoni

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    3. Too many pending Free Agents - Most of these guys (mostly Harrington) have no vested interest in the success of the Knicks and it shows. You can clearly see that Harrington has no interest in making anyone else look good but himself. These guys are playing for their next contracts and rather show everyone what type of numbers they can put up. Let's be real, although the Knicks suck there will still be teams looking to acquire bench players and we have plenty of them so I don't put much stock in teams not being interested in players coming from a bad team. These guys know the team is heading in a different direction and there isn't room for many of the current players. I don't think guys are playing at their highest level on most nights because they don't feel like Knicks pshycologically. They just wear the uniform but don't have a feel for it like Starks, Ewing or Oakley did. That Sacramento game is a perfect example of how guys just don't care every game.
    Great piece to read.

    However, all the "rental-players" performances has alot to do with their relationship with "Donnie Walsh & Mike Dantoni".
    Each of our ending contract players has picked a game to ensure their stat-record (where only one player supply the offense), there are way to many easy shots being missed and the wreckless air balls is to much for it not to look like it's done on purpose (in college u call it skimming games) that is Kiya opinion.
    There is one thing that all our ending contracts have in common while on the court is not to catch a serious injury (playing defense) which will affect their FA market in the big money spending 2010 offseason.

    Will this type of performance be given in midseason? Hell No! our ending contract players will start beating alot of the top tier teams, but our record will look like shuuutt!

    Will the ending contracts form a winning streak for the Knicks this season?
    it is hard to say with the Knick managment and favoritism headcoach....but after watching all the teams in the league the Knicks ending contract players could go on a few winning streaks with our schedule.

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    We saw it last year with Steph Marbury- D'ant's stubborn refusal to give a guy a fair shake and a fresh start. Coach was upset with Walsh for keeping Steph on the team, that he shunned him despite the fact that Marbury showed up in great shape and ready to play.

    I'm no Steph fan, but at the very least we could have played him and traded him if he were to establish himself as a 20 ppg player.

    ANWAY, we see it this year now with Darko and Hill.

    Darko is our best big man. He's also a young, former top draft pick, with experience and plenty of years ahead of him. We had 82 games to see if he could be part of our future.

    What does D'ant do?

    He buries him and on the bench, and now only 17 games into this season Darko is already dreaming about splitting for Europe.

    Like in the case of Marbury, D'ant never even gave Darko a chance to blossom in this system (and he looked halfway decent in the first game).

    The same applies for Hill. We're stuck watching Jared Jeffries play? WHY!

    We're stuck watching David Lee guard other team's big men?

    Look at the ORL game.... Howard was like 5-12 from the free throw line. We should have rotated Darko and Hill to use their 12 combined fouls to put Howard on the foul line each time he went to shoot.

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    Hopefully we can turn it around soon. The running system doesn't seem like it's getting us anywhere.

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    Simply draft decisions.

    Gallinari over Lopez (we needed a true center)

    Jordan Hill over a PG(Lawson, Jennings,Holliday, Maynor, Collison, and many others)

    Drafting Toney Douglas over Blair or Budinger.


    Check this

    If we had a core

    of Lawson, Budinger, Lopez..

    We be so straight right now.

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    Next season, keep waiting donchris's Avatar
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    I can think of another team that was made up of mostly role players. The Detroit Pistons of the Larry Brown years. The difference is the Pistons were a tough defensive minded team. After Brown left and Flip Saunders came in the same team turned into a run and gun team and lost. After only two seasons Flip Saunders was fired.

    We all know what the problem is. D'Antoni is a good offensive coach but he clearly doesn't have the talent to win with his system. A more versed coach that stressed the importance of consistent defensive would win more games with less talent. The constant jacking up of threes after only 8 seconds is inexcusable. I'd like to see more ball movement and an attempt to get easier shots near the basket.

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    Man, the Knicks really should've pulled that trade for the #5 pick. It was a draft rich with guards (and we could've gotten Ricky Rubio) and obviously we needed guards big time. It would've been no big deal to trade one of our forwards (ie Wilson Chandler primarily) to the Wizards for that #5 overall pick, but we for some reason didn't do it. Hell even if we didn't get Rubio (hypothetical situation) we would've picked up at least a half decent point guard (ie Stephen Curry, or Jonny Flynn, or somebody) and still had Jordan Hill and/or Brandon Jennings with that #8 pick.

    It's infuriating because knowing what we know now (that Rubio would fall to #5) we would've pulled that move off in a heartbeat. Damn it all.

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    Default Mike D = huge dissapointment

    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    In no particular order...

    1. Player personnel - This team is primarily composed of role players. The only players that can be seriously considered as a starters on a good team is Harrington, Lee and maybe Gallo if he ever learns how to move without the ball. Everyone else is best suited as role players. These guys bring a certain value to the team, but they are heavily relied on and usually don't measure up to the opposing teams' talent. It's like our starters are 2nd unit quality and our bench is even worse. Nate and Harrington will put up numbers off the bench but they barely add anything other than that. Our starting PG is 3rd string at best and we have no real center or interior intimidator.

    2. Coaching - Dantoni was one of the best in Phoenix but reality has set in and he has been exposed as narrow and linear. His coaching only extends to SSOL and doesn't properly adjust to maximize execution. There is certainly a responsibility of all the players to perform on the court every game, but they don't always do it and it is the coach's job to motivate and or substitute as necessary to create the right chemistry. We all know Gallo's playing time and shots should be increased, but for some reason Dantoni refuses to address these issues. I mentioned above that Gallo needs to learn how to move without the ball. He also needs to be more agressive among other things but this is what practice is for and if Dantoni can't draw up some plays for him them he will continue to hang around the 3pt line all game. I guess that's not a problem since Dantoni never yells at anyone for taking a 3 pointer no matter how awful it is. Dantoni doesn't understand how to win in crunch time either, probably because he doesn't understand the difference between low and high percentage shots.

    David Lee is not a center and cannot defend the position let alone his natural PF position. Dantoni continues to stick with this move and it hurts the team defensively. Why not start Darko and limit his shots to put backs and anything right under the basket? It would improve the starting rotation a bit defensively and Lee would still get his numbers. These are just a few of Dantoni's non-coaching moves that should have been explored already. He's recently shortened the rotation which has basically cut all of Hill and TD's minutes. Why? I though the reason we passed on AI was because we wanted to develop our young talent. Coaching staff doesn't have a clue. Mark Jackson would have been a better fit for the team IMO.

    3. Too many pending Free Agents - Most of these guys (mostly Harrington) have no vested interest in the success of the Knicks and it shows. You can clearly see that Harrington has no interest in making anyone else look good but himself. These guys are playing for their next contracts and rather show everyone what type of numbers they can put up. Let's be real, although the Knicks suck there will still be teams looking to acquire bench players and we have plenty of them so I don't put much stock in teams not being interested in players coming from a bad team. These guys know the team is heading in a different direction and there isn't room for many of the current players. I don't think guys are playing at their highest level on most nights because they don't feel like Knicks pshycologically. They just wear the uniform but don't have a feel for it like Starks, Ewing or Oakley did. That Sacramento game is a perfect example of how guys just don't care every game.
    This is one of the best threads for this seaon. It sums up every huge black hole we have that is not being confronted.

    I agreed with everything, i mean everything you said.

    I find it incredible that Mike D is so stubborn to not change things up and go with different rotations or lineups, or strategy even! It proves that he only knows to win with all stars that can run the team. Mike D can't run a team, he has all stars in Nash do it for him. I can see now that Nash gave Mike D all those great seasons. The only thing Mike did was say "here do whatever you want" and Nash took advantage of it.
    With the help of Marion, Diaw, Barbosa, Amare, etc. you have a very good offensive team with freedom, that can win. But bums doing whatever they want is a huge negative! Bad players will make bad plays, its up to the coaches to make these guys decent and play with half a brain.

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    I have to agree this is the number #1-TOP thread with so many members adding positive stuff that I had to read everyone writing about 3 to 4 times so I can include something that was not already written. And I thought of a great one while re-watching the games vs the Kings and Magic.

    Everyone been wondering why Gallo is not given at least 12 to 16 shots per game.....especially in that Orlando game where he shot only 7 attempts making 5 of them and 4-5 from the 3's......come-on y'all that's a deadly weapon for a Knick win over the Orlando Magic.
    Could I blame coach Dantoni? NO! and Yes, for not making several different plays for Gallo's peremeter-shooting. But the problem also lies in the next thread under this......................

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    I am sure that last season main "Starters" of Duhon, Chandler, Harrington, and Lee, would have made sure that Gallo lead the Knicks in scoring and the most shots taken a game b/c wins bring up those players value.....if Gallo would have came off the bench this season. Plus Dantoni not making that silly statement on Gallo shooting.....no matter if it is true.

    Gallo did "NOTHING" to earn the starting position, all the Knicks publicity, and advertisment he receive other than be headcoach Dantoni's nephew, Dantoni's selection in the draft, and the biggie is "the best shooter Dantoni ever seen".

    What do u think the Knicks NBA oponents be saying while on the court? NBA teams can not wait to play the Knicks.....what kind of jokes would u make up if u were a Knick oponent.....imagine all the jokes Kobe had to put up with from NBA oponents on that rape-charge, the same season Kobe scored 80 something points on the Raptors to put a stop to being the Joke of the NBA.

    Comments like "Gallo is the best shooter I ever seen" and "I'm the best Guard in the NBA" has made this Knick Team into a JOKE! inwhich the players have to endure each game, and putting Gallo in the "Starting-Lineup" was the icing on the jokers cake.

    That is only Kiya opinion....b/c this Knick team is way better than 3-14 with Nate & Gallo 3 point shooting to end the game...

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    I disagree that the Pistons were a bunch of role players they had 1 star named Rasheed Wallace. I'm actually starting to believe that Rasheed Wallace was actually one of the best players in the league in his time and most underrated in this era. Look at what happened to portland the year he Left.

    went from 41 wins to 27 (Also when they went to playing Z Bo More). If you add 14 wins to a team you are better than a role player.

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    the reason we are having such little success is because D'Antoni has to showcase jeffries for trade. Its also due to horrible benching habits by our coach. Douglas should be starting at the 1, not Duhon

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    3 reasons why the Knicks are Losers
    Dolan
    Walsh
    Dantoni
    Bar Dolan, they have one chance left this off-season to prove or achieve that this comment is wrong.

    It's not over yet.


    We had to start from the very bottom and devolve to ultimately evolve. But I still put it more on the heads of the players and Isiah's regime of down syndrome than Donnie and or Mike D. Not defending Mike D's game plans or substitutions. He's doing a poor job with poorer players than I'd ever expected.

    Losing absolutely sucks especially at this rapid pace. I'm as tired of it as everyone else. But there's still that one last chance. God knows I'm gonna need some zen like patience to put up with the mean time.

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