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Thread: Yankees Make Worst Trade Ever

  1. #31
    Superstar Giants89FLY's Avatar
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    KBlack, you missing the point, maybe I should have been more specific, They didnt want to trade any of their "Top young talent" in a deal for Johan, but this year they traded melky for who? Javy Vazquez?!?! and you can make the case that clutch hitting is a "total fallacy", But there is a fine line between a ballplayer who can handle tough situations as compared to ones who cannot. How can you say melky is a marginal player?!?!? HE'S 25!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's not even developed yet!!!!!!

  2. #32
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Giants89FLY
    KBlack, you missing the point, maybe I should have been more specific, They didnt want to trade any of their "Top young talent" in a deal for Johan, but this year they traded melky for who? Javy Vazquez?!?! and you can make the case that clutch hitting is a "total fallacy", But there is a fine line between a ballplayer who can handle tough situations as compared to ones who cannot. How can you say melky is a marginal player?!?!? HE'S 25!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's not even developed yet!!!!!!
    I can say he's a marginal player because I watched him play. He had a decent year last year, but he still hit under .280.

    You think there is a fine line between a ballplayer who can handle tough situations and one who cannot...then how do you explain A-Rod (who everyone complained could not handle a tough situation) coming up with big "clutch" hits? How do you explain "Mr. Clutch" David Ortiz coming up flat in high pressure situations? How do you explain that every statistical analysis ever run shows that most of the time the success rate in "high pressure" situations come out to a totally random number from year to year?

    And I think if the Johan deal was for Melky Cabrera and basically nothing else, the Yankees would have done it in a heartbeat. They didn't want to give up young PITCHING prospects.

    Plus, Granderson>Cabrera. At most we could hope that Cabrera became like Curtis Granderson.

    Melky is a marginal player, he's a guy that right now is replaceable.

  3. #33
    Superstar th3realicon's Avatar
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    Whenever people say that javy is a joke i always fail to see the comparison. Simply put in 2004 he was our best pitcher and he was pitching hurt in late season. Everybody remembers only that game 7 HR he gave to Damon but people need to realize that other than Vasquez our next best pitcher was Mussina that had a down year in 2004 and Brown than was on the DL most of the season.

    Truth be told we can't ask the big 3 (CC, AJ and Andy) to pitch a 3 man rotation all season. It just ain't fair. It worked on the playoffs but can't possibly work for 160 plus games it is unheard of. And don't even get me started with thaT "Give Joba and Hughes a chance" crap. They need to develop and the only way i can see them do so is by shiftting them both in the bullpen and/or let them pile innings in triple A.


    You guys like it or not Vasquez is the best 4th starter in the league period. That is why i consider Cashman a genius, because he basically took a top of the rottation guy to be the 4rth starter.

    And than, Melky leaving is another thing i acclaim the GM for. Lets face it, Melky is someone you can replace quite easily. His bat was average but had a great arm. He wasn't going to play CF because we got Granderson now and his presence would have meant only one thing: Jesus Montero would have spent the year in triple A. A guy with that upside needs to be given a chance. And than Gardner give you basically what Melky had, an average bat with good defense and terrific running abilities. The kid is plain husle.

  4. #34
    Lurker KurtThomas's Avatar
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    I was a little skeptical about the Granderson deal at first. For the most part, all of his offensive numbers have been on the decline for the past couple of years: BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, etc. Even his range in the outfield, according to his UZR rating, has seen a drop off. However, I do think Cashman acquired him for a good price and we could very well see those numbers get back on the rise. He tends to hit a lot of fly balls, and even more specifically, he tends to hit a lot of fly balls to right field. With that short RF porch, that could translate into some very nice offensive production out of him next season. Also, as far as his defense is concerned, his range in the outfield improved a bit last season and started to somewhat return to his '07 form. Whether he's playing in LF or CF, I expect him to play some nice defense for us.

    As far as Ajax being the best prospect we had, that simply isn't true. Montero is and was our best prospect, and it really isn't even that close. Ajax's ceiling really isn't as high as you're making it out to be.

  5. #35
    Lurker KurtThomas's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by th3realicon
    Whenever people say that javy is a joke i always fail to see the comparison. Simply put in 2004 he was our best pitcher and he was pitching hurt in late season. Everybody remembers only that game 7 HR he gave to Damon but people need to realize that other than Vasquez our next best pitcher was Mussina that had a down year in 2004 and Brown than was on the DL most of the season.

    Truth be told we can't ask the big 3 (CC, AJ and Andy) to pitch a 3 man rotation all season. It just ain't fair. It worked on the playoffs but can't possibly work for 160 plus games it is unheard of. And don't even get me started with thaT "Give Joba and Hughes a chance" crap. They need to develop and the only way i can see them do so is by shiftting them both in the bullpen and/or let them pile innings in triple A.


    You guys like it or not Vasquez is the best 4th starter in the league period. That is why i consider Cashman a genius, because he basically took a top of the rottation guy to be the 4rth starter.

    And than, Melky leaving is another thing i acclaim the GM for. Lets face it, Melky is someone you can replace quite easily. His bat was average but had a great arm. He wasn't going to play CF because we got Granderson now and his presence would have meant only one thing: Jesus Montero would have spent the year in triple A. A guy with that upside needs to be given a chance. And than Gardner give you basically what Melky had, an average bat with good defense and terrific running abilities. The kid is plain husle.
    Agreed. What also gets forgotten, is that Javy was actually an All-Star that season. Then he started pitching hurt and gave up that game 7 HR, and people kind of jumped the gun on him. Also, last time around, Cashman signed him to be a top of the rotation starter as our #1 or #2. He just isn't that type of pitcher. He will fit beautifully into the rotation this time around as a #4. He could very well win 13-15 games next season. That would be fantastic, compared to the inconsistency we had in the #4 spot last season. Cashman really didn't give up much value to get him either. People get wrapped up in all the walk-off hits he got last season, but truth of the matter is that Melky is a dime a dozen OF'er. The one player in the deal I was upset we gave up is Aroyds Vizcaino, the 19 year old RHP. He's so young and raw that it's hard to lose too much sleep over losing him, but he did have filthy stuff.

  6. #36
    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    Javier Vazquez is worse than a pitcher from Trenton. Trash him now.

  7. #37
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jpz17
    Javier Vazquez is worse than a pitcher from Trenton. Trash him now.
    this post is a fail....look at his stats from last year. This was a good move.

  8. #38
    I got Soul StreetDreams21's Avatar
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    Why are people still mad about this trade? It was a great deal. Javier was a top-5 pitcher last year, and he's going to be our #4.

  9. #39
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StreetDreams21
    Why are people still mad about this trade? It was a great deal. Javier was a top-5 pitcher last year, and he's going to be our #4.
    right on...streetdreams knows the deal

  10. #40
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StreetDreams21
    Why are people still mad about this trade? It was a great deal. Javier was a top-5 pitcher last year, and he's going to be our #4.
    Exactly. Javy Vazquez got a Cy Young vote last year and basically we gave up Melky Cabrera, a 4th or 5th OF, to get him.

    I understand the love-affair with Melky, but he's really not all that good. He is what he is, a very replaceable outfielder. With the acquisition of Granderson, Cabrera became expendable and for this middle of the road outfielder we got strength at the back of the rotation (which, you may remember, was lacking through the playoffs last year).

  11. #41
    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by KBlack25
    Exactly. Javy Vazquez got a Cy Young vote last year and basically we gave up Melky Cabrera, a 4th or 5th OF, to get him.

    I understand the love-affair with Melky, but he's really not all that good. He is what he is, a very replaceable outfielder. With the acquisition of Granderson, Cabrera became expendable and for this middle of the road outfielder we got strength at the back of the rotation (which, you may remember, was lacking through the playoffs last year).
    If you dummys watched any of Vazquez in New York you would know just how bad he is

  12. #42
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    Originally Posted by jpz17
    If you dummys watched any of Vazquez in New York you would know just how bad he is
    Maybe these dummies realize that was 5 years ago and he was playing while injured.

  13. #43
    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StreetDreams21
    Maybe these dummies realize that was 5 years ago and he was playing while injured.
    watch vazquez get an era of like 3.20 and get 18 wins and do good in the playoffs...im no lover of him but i not a hater of a guy who was top 5 in cy young nominations and is our 4th starter! come on guys seriosly we traded nothing for him!

    Melky was inconsistent and only had a good arm..thats it...maybe he will be better in the future but we need better players and we needed a rotation!

  14. #44
    Veteran KBlack25's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    watch vazquez get an era of like 3.20 and get 18 wins and do good in the playoffs...im no lover of him but i not a hater of a guy who was top 5 in cy young nominations and is our 4th starter! come on guys seriosly we traded nothing for him!

    Melky was inconsistent and only had a good arm..thats it...maybe he will be better in the future but we need better players and we needed a rotation!
    Exactly, we gave up nothing to get Javy Vazquez and bolser a rotation that featured only three guys the entire playoffs last year...

    The BEST we could hope for out of Melky Cabrera was that he became Curtis Granderson...but Curtis Granderson is Curtis Granderson, Melky was a very expendable piece.

  15. #45
    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    watch vazquez get an era of like 3.20 and get 18 wins and do good in the playoffs...im no lover of him but i not a hater of a guy who was top 5 in cy young nominations and is our 4th starter! come on guys seriosly we traded nothing for him!

    Melky was inconsistent and only had a good arm..thats it...maybe he will be better in the future but we need better players and we needed a rotation!
    Arodys Vizcaino is nothing? Our #1 pitching prospect?

    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    2.13 ERA is nothing? hmmm looks like these guys are dummies. Trust me guys I know baseball. I look at baseball numbers all day and watch clips all day. When I'm not in class I'm doing something baseball-related. Cabrera was solid. Vizcaino was good, and I wouldn't even pay Javier his HUUUUUUGE salary. We could get better for that price in free agency and wouldn't have to give up Melky and Vizcaino.

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