Yankees Make Worst Trade Ever

th3realicon

Rotation player
He basically got Wynn for 2 mill. Damon would have cost almost 4 times that. Yeah fire Cashman for being a great businessman.

I am loving it, we basically told Boras to go have intercourse.
 

Giants89FLY

Rotation player
cashman also said we had to get "younger" I'm still trying to figure out how trading Melky for Vazquez makes us younger?
 

KING~POETIQ

The One and Only
He basically got Wynn for 2 mill. Damon would have cost almost 4 times that. Yeah fire Cashman for being a great businessman.

I am loving it, we basically told Boras to go have intercourse.

lmao.

I like the wynn acquisition because we get more defense in the outfield. We got a better overall team NOW than we had last year (believe it or not.)
 

KBlack25

Starter
BUMP
Another bad move by the Yankees

Time to seriously fire the Brian Cashman. I've never seen a worse GM

Dude, they won the world series b/c Brian Cashman got Teix, Burnett, and Sabathia as well as bringing back Pettitte. Brian Cashman made the move to get a guy like Jerry Hairston Jr. who was serviceable and managed to swing Melky Cabrera for a guy that got Cy Young votes last year.

He's doing a fine job. Can't fire the GM the year after they win it all.
 

johnstarky

Rotation player
Name me a team throughout baseball history who after winning a championship brought back every single player that was on their World Series roster?
 

jpz17

Starter
Dude, they won the world series b/c Brian Cashman got Teix, Burnett, and Sabathia as well as bringing back Pettitte. Brian Cashman made the move to get a guy like Jerry Hairston Jr. who was serviceable and managed to swing Melky Cabrera for a guy that got Cy Young votes last year.

He's doing a fine job. Can't fire the GM the year after they win it all.

Melky is a great player. I'd rather have Melky than Javy. Vaz is such a joke it isn't funny
 

Giants89FLY

Rotation player
Lets be honest here, Cashman doesnt have nearly as hard a job as other GM's around the league... Many times he just goes and gets the best available player on the FA market, And of course, it makes us instantly better... When you have an unlimited budget like the yanks do, your job is easy... Its these trades I wonder, In fact, Can anyone name one trade that benefited the yankees? Besides the Arod deal?
 

Giants89FLY

Rotation player
I'd rather have the guy who came in 4th for the NL Cy Young than another 4th OF'er.
Ok, so you would take a guy who has in his career 3 more wins than losses 142-139, and ERA over 4? As compared to a proven athlete who can handle the New York City pressure, (How many clutch hits did he have for us last year?) a switch hitter with an absolute rocket for an arm, Who isnt even in the prime years of his career? Its not easy to play for the yankees, much less start in the most hallowed position- Center field.... Plus, Look at the division Vazquez pitched in! The Nats, The Mets, And the entire National League? Give me a break.... A bad move is a bad move.... They didnt wanna trade melky for Johan, but they'll trade him for fu.ckin Javier Vazquez?!?! Joke
 

KBlack25

Starter
Ok, so you would take a guy who has in his career 3 more wins than losses 142-139, and ERA over 4? As compared to a proven athlete who can handle the New York City pressure, (How many clutch hits did he have for us last year?) a switch hitter with an absolute rocket for an arm, Who isnt even in the prime years of his career? Its not easy to play for the yankees, much less start in the most hallowed position- Center field.... Plus, Look at the division Vazquez pitched in! The Nats, The Mets, And the entire National League? Give me a break.... A bad move is a bad move.... They didnt wanna trade melky for Johan, but they'll trade him for fu.ckin Javier Vazquez?!?! Joke

Incorrect.

They didn't want to trade Hughes AND Joba/Kennedy AND Melky for Johan...

Melky is a marginal player, he only gets noticed because his in NY. He has never hit above .280, and the whole "clutch" thing is way overstated. There's no such thing as "clutch" hitting.

Various baseball analysts, including Bill James, Pete Palmer, Dick Cramer, and the Baseball Prospectus editors, have found so-called "clutch hitting" ability to be a myth. This is not to say that clutch hits, like those listed above, do not exist, but rather that some kind of innate ability for a player to perform above his true talent level in high-pressure situations is nothing but an illusion. In his 1984 Baseball Abstract, James framed the problem with clutch hitting this way: "How is it that a player who possesses the reflexes and the batting stroke and the knowledge and the experience to be a .260 hitter in other circumstances magically becomes a .300 hitter when the game is on the line? How does that happen? What is the process? What are the effects? Until we can answer those questions, I see little point in talking about clutch ability."


Most studies on the matter involved comparing performance in the "clutch" category of statistics (production with runners in scoring position, performance late in close games, etc.) between seasons; if clutch hitting were an actual skill, it would follow that the same players would do well in the clutch statistics year in and year out (the correlation coefficient between players' performances over multiple seasons would be high). Cramer's study was the first of its kind, and it found that clutch hitting numbers between seasons for the same player varied wildly; in fact, the variance was the kind one would expect if the numbers had been selected randomly. Since Cramer published his results, many others have tried to find some evidence that clutch hitting is a skill, but almost every study has confirmed Cramer's initial findings: that "clutch hitting," in terms of certain players being able to "rise to the occasion" under pressure, is an illusion.
"Clutch"-ness does not follow a player from year to year.


Power does.
Batting average does.
OBP does.
Strikeout Rate does.
"Clutch", no matter how you define it, does not.


Most studies find clutch hitting is totally random. A-Rod was known for being "not clutch", then he hits big time home runs last season and this season. David Ortiz was known for being "amazingly clutch", but didn't come through with a truly big hit this past season.


Clutch hitting is a myth, so pointing to Melky's "clutch hits" is pointing to a total fallacy.

Melky has never hit over .280, his arm is good but his fielding and range isn't all that great. He's a fine player, but he's very very replaceable, and with Granderson patrolling center, Melky was expendable.
 

Giants89FLY

Rotation player
KBlack, you missing the point, maybe I should have been more specific, They didnt want to trade any of their "Top young talent" in a deal for Johan, but this year they traded melky for who? Javy Vazquez?!?! and you can make the case that clutch hitting is a "total fallacy", But there is a fine line between a ballplayer who can handle tough situations as compared to ones who cannot. How can you say melky is a marginal player?!?!? HE'S 25!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's not even developed yet!!!!!!
 

KBlack25

Starter
KBlack, you missing the point, maybe I should have been more specific, They didnt want to trade any of their "Top young talent" in a deal for Johan, but this year they traded melky for who? Javy Vazquez?!?! and you can make the case that clutch hitting is a "total fallacy", But there is a fine line between a ballplayer who can handle tough situations as compared to ones who cannot. How can you say melky is a marginal player?!?!? HE'S 25!!!!!!!!!!!!!! He's not even developed yet!!!!!!

I can say he's a marginal player because I watched him play. He had a decent year last year, but he still hit under .280.

You think there is a fine line between a ballplayer who can handle tough situations and one who cannot...then how do you explain A-Rod (who everyone complained could not handle a tough situation) coming up with big "clutch" hits? How do you explain "Mr. Clutch" David Ortiz coming up flat in high pressure situations? How do you explain that every statistical analysis ever run shows that most of the time the success rate in "high pressure" situations come out to a totally random number from year to year?

And I think if the Johan deal was for Melky Cabrera and basically nothing else, the Yankees would have done it in a heartbeat. They didn't want to give up young PITCHING prospects.

Plus, Granderson>Cabrera. At most we could hope that Cabrera became like Curtis Granderson.

Melky is a marginal player, he's a guy that right now is replaceable.
 

th3realicon

Rotation player
Whenever people say that javy is a joke i always fail to see the comparison. Simply put in 2004 he was our best pitcher and he was pitching hurt in late season. Everybody remembers only that game 7 HR he gave to Damon but people need to realize that other than Vasquez our next best pitcher was Mussina that had a down year in 2004 and Brown than was on the DL most of the season.

Truth be told we can't ask the big 3 (CC, AJ and Andy) to pitch a 3 man rotation all season. It just ain't fair. It worked on the playoffs but can't possibly work for 160 plus games it is unheard of. And don't even get me started with thaT "Give Joba and Hughes a chance" crap. They need to develop and the only way i can see them do so is by shiftting them both in the bullpen and/or let them pile innings in triple A.


You guys like it or not Vasquez is the best 4th starter in the league period. That is why i consider Cashman a genius, because he basically took a top of the rottation guy to be the 4rth starter.

And than, Melky leaving is another thing i acclaim the GM for. Lets face it, Melky is someone you can replace quite easily. His bat was average but had a great arm. He wasn't going to play CF because we got Granderson now and his presence would have meant only one thing: Jesus Montero would have spent the year in triple A. A guy with that upside needs to be given a chance. And than Gardner give you basically what Melky had, an average bat with good defense and terrific running abilities. The kid is plain husle.
 

KurtThomas

Rookie
I was a little skeptical about the Granderson deal at first. For the most part, all of his offensive numbers have been on the decline for the past couple of years: BA, OBP, SLG, OPS, OPS+, etc. Even his range in the outfield, according to his UZR rating, has seen a drop off. However, I do think Cashman acquired him for a good price and we could very well see those numbers get back on the rise. He tends to hit a lot of fly balls, and even more specifically, he tends to hit a lot of fly balls to right field. With that short RF porch, that could translate into some very nice offensive production out of him next season. Also, as far as his defense is concerned, his range in the outfield improved a bit last season and started to somewhat return to his '07 form. Whether he's playing in LF or CF, I expect him to play some nice defense for us.

As far as Ajax being the best prospect we had, that simply isn't true. Montero is and was our best prospect, and it really isn't even that close. Ajax's ceiling really isn't as high as you're making it out to be.
 

KurtThomas

Rookie
Whenever people say that javy is a joke i always fail to see the comparison. Simply put in 2004 he was our best pitcher and he was pitching hurt in late season. Everybody remembers only that game 7 HR he gave to Damon but people need to realize that other than Vasquez our next best pitcher was Mussina that had a down year in 2004 and Brown than was on the DL most of the season.

Truth be told we can't ask the big 3 (CC, AJ and Andy) to pitch a 3 man rotation all season. It just ain't fair. It worked on the playoffs but can't possibly work for 160 plus games it is unheard of. And don't even get me started with thaT "Give Joba and Hughes a chance" crap. They need to develop and the only way i can see them do so is by shiftting them both in the bullpen and/or let them pile innings in triple A.


You guys like it or not Vasquez is the best 4th starter in the league period. That is why i consider Cashman a genius, because he basically took a top of the rottation guy to be the 4rth starter.

And than, Melky leaving is another thing i acclaim the GM for. Lets face it, Melky is someone you can replace quite easily. His bat was average but had a great arm. He wasn't going to play CF because we got Granderson now and his presence would have meant only one thing: Jesus Montero would have spent the year in triple A. A guy with that upside needs to be given a chance. And than Gardner give you basically what Melky had, an average bat with good defense and terrific running abilities. The kid is plain husle.

Agreed. What also gets forgotten, is that Javy was actually an All-Star that season. Then he started pitching hurt and gave up that game 7 HR, and people kind of jumped the gun on him. Also, last time around, Cashman signed him to be a top of the rotation starter as our #1 or #2. He just isn't that type of pitcher. He will fit beautifully into the rotation this time around as a #4. He could very well win 13-15 games next season. That would be fantastic, compared to the inconsistency we had in the #4 spot last season. Cashman really didn't give up much value to get him either. People get wrapped up in all the walk-off hits he got last season, but truth of the matter is that Melky is a dime a dozen OF'er. The one player in the deal I was upset we gave up is Aroyds Vizcaino, the 19 year old RHP. He's so young and raw that it's hard to lose too much sleep over losing him, but he did have filthy stuff.
 

StreetDreams21

I got Soul
Why are people still mad about this trade? It was a great deal. Javier was a top-5 pitcher last year, and he's going to be our #4.
 

KBlack25

Starter
Why are people still mad about this trade? It was a great deal. Javier was a top-5 pitcher last year, and he's going to be our #4.

Exactly. Javy Vazquez got a Cy Young vote last year and basically we gave up Melky Cabrera, a 4th or 5th OF, to get him.

I understand the love-affair with Melky, but he's really not all that good. He is what he is, a very replaceable outfielder. With the acquisition of Granderson, Cabrera became expendable and for this middle of the road outfielder we got strength at the back of the rotation (which, you may remember, was lacking through the playoffs last year).
 
Top