David Lee's recent success is bitter sweet for The Knicks

New New York

Quiet Storm
Look, David Lee's agent is drooling at the mouth nowadays!

And Donnie is kicking himself for not locking him up at a 5 yr 40 million dollar deal! Now its going to cost us!

David Lee is probably playing as good as any player in the league over the past few games.

He has added a new element to his game every year! He came back his sophomore year a 80% FT shooter up from 50%, his 3rd season he had to play behind Curry and Randolph and still was the most consistient player on the team, last year he picked up a somewhat reliable jump shot, now he has a pretty reliable jumper, plus a knack for scoring the ball proving he is more than just a rebounder!

David Lee is a testament to work ethic! And outside the mega-stars this off season David will the top FA this summer, the safe bet for Donnie is to sign Lee to extension before the bidding war begins on him
 

Starks

Starter
Watching him yesterday, I kept thinking, this is the game where Lee establishes him self as an All-Star.

He's gotta make the team. The coaches vote for the All Star reserves and I don't think there is any coach in the world who wouldn't want a guy like Lee on their squad.

He looked great last night. With him and Gallo as our front line, I really think we have the makings of a great future. Being a Knick fan is becoming fun again.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Yeah, unfortunately it will cost us $10.5 mil to retain his Bird Rights which doesn't leave enough cap space to sign a max. If Lee makes the All-Star team this year his agent will ask for $11 mil a year. Which doesn't leave enough cap space to sign a max.

Unless Jeffries is traded expect Lee to be gone after this year. And that's a shame.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
Yes we shoulda, coulda, woulda signed him for less last year. That said he wasn't as good last year so the point is moot. I do not mind having to pay him what he is worth...why are we quick to sign a Bosh or Amare to >11 mil a year but hesitate to sign a homegrown stud like Lee?
 

Starks

Starter
Yes we shoulda, coulda, woulda signed him for less last year. That said he wasn't as good last year so the point is moot. I do not mind having to pay him what he is worth...why are we quick to sign a Bosh or Amare to >11 mil a year but hesitate to sign a homegrown stud like Lee?

Your right. Also, Lee might be a better fit. He wants to be here. He knows NY. The fans love him. More importantly, he is more of a complimentary player than bosh and amare. If we get LeBron, than Lee is probably the best fit. It's not as attractive as Bosh and Amare, but Lee doesn't need to score to make a difference. I can't say the same for Bosh and Amare.

LeBron, Gallo, and Lee would be the best combination I can think of under Mike D. Than its just a matter of having a defensive big man at center (Think Ben Wallace when he was in his prime), and a veteran PG (Nash would have been perfect)
 

New New York

Quiet Storm
Yeah, unfortunately it will cost us $10.5 mil to retain his Bird Rights which doesn't leave enough cap space to sign a max. If Lee makes the All-Star team this year his agent will ask for $11 mil a year. Which doesn't leave enough cap space to sign a max.

Unless Jeffries is traded expect Lee to be gone after this year. And that's a shame.

No way that happens! I think Donnie would jepordize signing a max FA before just letting David Walk for nothing. David will be a Knick next year regardless if we move Jefferies or not -which I think we eventually will barring a serious injury-

He and his agent were all for backloading his contract so Lee can remain a Knick and The Knicks could sign a max FA last offseason so I think that is always an option.
Give David 9 million plus incentives and huge anual raises. I figure D.Lee has earned himself a five year 55 million dollar contract, and we could pay out the remaining 46 million over the next 4 seasons which would make his average salary for those next years 11.5, thats just about right

The key is David wants to be a Knick and he wants to win as a Knick I think he would take less to remain a Knick and to have a shot at being a winner:thumbsup:

Yes we shoulda, coulda, woulda signed him for less last year. That said he wasn't as good last year so the point is moot. I do not mind having to pay him what he is worth...why are we quick to sign a Bosh or Amare to >11 mil a year but hesitate to sign a homegrown stud like Lee?

Its a case of the grass being greener on the other side of the fence! I think that Knicks fans are so desperate for a change is why outside players get recognition before our own players....not saying I think that is right, but that is just the what it is.

Bringing in a player like Amare of Bosh would add a different element to the team. Kinda like us always hiring outside coaches before considering Herb or even better example being us hiring Don Nelson to coach after Pat Riley when all in while we having eventual legendary Knicks Jeff Van Gundy on the bench.

In sports fans always crave change and Amare or Bosh would represent that....but what is that they say about change not always being better

With all that said, if resigning David is our only major signing next season would you feel good about that?
 

Starks

Starter
Lee wouldn't get signed or even thought of until LeBron picks a city.


Here's my dream sequence.

July 4 2010
LeBron signs with NY for an Arod like deal (We might be looking at 200mil 10 years, or a 3yr or 4yr deal for over 100mil)

*I have no idea how much the Knicks have in the bank so these numbers are just being thrown around

July 13
David Lee signs a 5 yr deal for 55mil

July 19
Raja Bell signs a 2 yr deal for peanuts

July 26
Marcus Camby signs 2 yr deal for peanuts

August 13
Knicks trade for Jason Terry or some other veteran that can hold down the pg spot.
 

Starks

Starter
If we don't get LeBron, I don't think throwing money at Amare and Bosh is the answer.

I rather resign Lee, and wait to the very next season to throw tons of money on Durant.

That also would be a huge deal
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
With all that said, if resigning David is our only major signing next season would you feel good about that?

It depends...I am willing to wait till 2011 to sign a FA if Lebron and Wade don't sign with us. We would be making a mistake to throw money at Bosh or Amare and make them our franchise player. Lebron, Wade or trade for an elite player is the only thing we should do next year besides retaining Lee and further developing our young guns. If you can't get an elite, play with what you have and go at 2011 which ahas a great crop of young studs...Durant would be on the top of my list.
 

TR1LL10N

Hannibal Lecter
If we don't get LeBron, I don't think throwing money at Amare and Bosh is the answer.

I rather resign Lee, and wait to the very next season to throw tons of money on Durant.

That also would be a huge deal

LOL, read my mind. I coulda just quoted you!
 

clumsy

Rotation player
My question is how does backloading a contract affect the cap situation next year. For example what if we were to pay David Lee 7 mil but his contract ends at 14.

We ideally want to be done with free agents by 2011
 

Starks

Starter
LOL, read my mind. I coulda just quoted you!

Don't get me wrong, LeBron is the real goal. Nothing will match that signing.

But as we reach 2010, names like Bosh and Amare don't really do anything for me anymore.

2 years ago when I heard Bosh and Amare might be Knicks I was doing cartwheels. Now, I'm just kind of like ehhhh thats nice. Essentially, it would be the same way I felt about the Jason Bay signing yesterday
 

Red

TYPE-A
Yes we shoulda, coulda, woulda signed him for less last year. That said he wasn't as good last year so the point is moot. I do not mind having to pay him what he is worth...why are we quick to sign a Bosh or Amare to >11 mil a year but hesitate to sign a homegrown stud like Lee?

Lee's "worth" is relative. It's relative to other available players, the time he and others are available and to the value franchises place on his attributes, so to speculate his worth at this time is pointless. What is more important is the recognition that the NYK can survive without his newly found 20ft jumper- but what we cannot be sucessful without is DEFENSE! Has this "boarderline allstar" learned to play one on one defense? The answer is NO, that said I don't believe he is a scrub at all but still remains a complement player- therefore his contract and negotiations should reflect this. His contract should be the third or fourth priority for us. The answer to your question above is... because they play defense. Sign Lee to an enormous contract and we'll be looking for a center to make up for his deficiencies soon- like we are now. His agent will out price him off the team. Last yr proved he's about $ and I suspect he's gone sooner or later IMHO.
 

smokes

Huge Member
Lee is great yeah but he still can't defend or block a shot to save his life, his offensive game is great but he's not an all round player. His value is in outscoring and outrebounding his matchup, but he gives up a ton of points to penetrating guards that a real PF/C wouldn't.

Also Lee is fitting better into the team this year after playing C almost all of last season and getting used to it. BUT his numbers are not really that different from last season, and he has the ball a lot more now hence almost having +1 turnover per game more than last season. He had a great run of games recently but players do that, have runs and slumps, I think people are getting a bit too high on him.

Hell yeah if we could have got him at 8 mill per for 5 years last season knowing how he's playing now, it would have been great, but hindsight is 20/20. Bottom line is you can't build a team around Lee, he's not THAT good.

edit - I should rephrase that to you can't build a WINNING team around Lee, since our team at the moment is pretty much built around him!
 
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paris401

Starter
Lee's "worth" is relative. It's relative to other available players, the time he and others are available and to the value franchises place on his attributes, so to speculate his worth at this time is pointless. What is more important is the recognition that the NYK can survive without his newly found 20ft jumper- but what we cannot be sucessful without is DEFENSE! Has this "boarderline allstar" learned to play one on one defense? The answer is NO, that said I don't believe he is a scrub at all but still remains a complement player- therefore his contract and negotiations should reflect this. .


very well said....
 

clumsy

Rotation player
I agree he's a #2 offensive option on offense and can't play D.

but if we can keep his contract down for 2010 and 11 and then bump his contract up a lot last couple of years if his cap number is only reflected for the current year, he is a worthwhile long term investment.

However, i'm not too sure how the cap # for a player works. Is it an average of the pay for the contract. Or does it only take into consideration the players salary for that year.
 

smokes

Huge Member
I agree he's a #2 offensive option on offense and can't play D.

but if we can keep his contract down for 2010 and 11 and then bump his contract up a lot last couple of years if his cap number is only reflected for the current year, he is a worthwhile long term investment.

However, i'm not too sure how the cap # for a player works. Is it an average of the pay for the contract. Or does it only take into consideration the players salary for that year.

I'm not sure about that but I think there are rules governing backloading contracts that mean it can only rise by a certain percentage each year, so we cannot go for example 8/10/10/12/15 or something like that, it has to be a set value per year.
 

iSaYughh

Starter
Great points about how Lee has systematically progressed each and every year...even with Isiah retarding him. .

Lee's playing out of his most natural position and is now having to adapt in new ways. He has a history of systematic improvement, and already owns the sht out of people in scoring, rebounding, and passing, and doing so in a way that *doesn't* mean the team has to be built around him. Hello, Lebron.

I would throw extra years at him for a reduced yearly price, and I like the idea of backloading it if can be done. Whatever we do, Jeffries MUST be dumped...package with Harrington and N8, whatever it takes, we MUST be able to sign Lee + Lebron -- it can't be overstated that this is the single biggest thing that will allow us to sign the 1 in the first place.

Roster:

C Lee (be criminal if it's Amare)
PF Lebron
SF Gallo
SG Chandler
PG Douglas

A system-fitting PG away from shifting Douglas to SG and allowing Chandler to come off the bench with astounding versaility; a more seasoned Hill away from us wrecking absolute havoc in rotating around C and PF.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
If Lebron is the goal, then where does Lee fit? Lebron would most likely play PF. Do we really want Lee playing Center for us? He's played well at that position but it does create a defensive liability.

Or if we put Lebron at SF and Lee at PF, does Gallo come off the bench? Who do we get to play Center? Can/would Lebron play SG and let Chandler come off the bench?

And we still have to resolve our PG needs. Douglas is not a starting PG in the NBA. If we sign Lebron and sign Lee we don't have enough to get a PG.

This may all be a pointless debate. Lee will probably be asking for $11 mil which doesn't leave us enough to resign him if we go after a max-contract player. And I seriously doubt Donnie would sacrifice the chance to get Lebron to sign Lee.
 

metrocard

Legend
Lee wouldn't get signed or even thought of until LeBron picks a city.


Here's my dream sequence.

July 4 2010
LeBron signs with NY for an Arod like deal (We might be looking at 200mil 10 years, or a 3yr or 4yr deal for over 100mil)

*I have no idea how much the Knicks have in the bank so these numbers are just being thrown around

July 13
David Lee signs a 5 yr deal for 55mil

July 19
Raja Bell signs a 2 yr deal for peanuts

July 26
Marcus Camby signs 2 yr deal for peanuts

August 13
Knicks trade for Jason Terry or some other veteran that can hold down the pg spot.

Most of those guys are close to retirement, this isn't 2006 anymore.
 
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