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Thread: David Lee's recent success is bitter sweet for The Knicks

  1. #16
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    I agree he's a #2 offensive option on offense and can't play D.

    but if we can keep his contract down for 2010 and 11 and then bump his contract up a lot last couple of years if his cap number is only reflected for the current year, he is a worthwhile long term investment.

    However, i'm not too sure how the cap # for a player works. Is it an average of the pay for the contract. Or does it only take into consideration the players salary for that year.

  2. #17
    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by clumsy
    I agree he's a #2 offensive option on offense and can't play D.

    but if we can keep his contract down for 2010 and 11 and then bump his contract up a lot last couple of years if his cap number is only reflected for the current year, he is a worthwhile long term investment.

    However, i'm not too sure how the cap # for a player works. Is it an average of the pay for the contract. Or does it only take into consideration the players salary for that year.
    I'm not sure about that but I think there are rules governing backloading contracts that mean it can only rise by a certain percentage each year, so we cannot go for example 8/10/10/12/15 or something like that, it has to be a set value per year.

  3. #18
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    Great points about how Lee has systematically progressed each and every year...even with Isiah retarding him. .

    Lee's playing out of his most natural position and is now having to adapt in new ways. He has a history of systematic improvement, and already owns the sht out of people in scoring, rebounding, and passing, and doing so in a way that *doesn't* mean the team has to be built around him. Hello, Lebron.

    I would throw extra years at him for a reduced yearly price, and I like the idea of backloading it if can be done. Whatever we do, Jeffries MUST be dumped...package with Harrington and N8, whatever it takes, we MUST be able to sign Lee + Lebron -- it can't be overstated that this is the single biggest thing that will allow us to sign the 1 in the first place.

    Roster:

    C Lee (be criminal if it's Amare)
    PF Lebron
    SF Gallo
    SG Chandler
    PG Douglas

    A system-fitting PG away from shifting Douglas to SG and allowing Chandler to come off the bench with astounding versaility; a more seasoned Hill away from us wrecking absolute havoc in rotating around C and PF.

  4. #19
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    If Lebron is the goal, then where does Lee fit? Lebron would most likely play PF. Do we really want Lee playing Center for us? He's played well at that position but it does create a defensive liability.

    Or if we put Lebron at SF and Lee at PF, does Gallo come off the bench? Who do we get to play Center? Can/would Lebron play SG and let Chandler come off the bench?

    And we still have to resolve our PG needs. Douglas is not a starting PG in the NBA. If we sign Lebron and sign Lee we don't have enough to get a PG.

    This may all be a pointless debate. Lee will probably be asking for $11 mil which doesn't leave us enough to resign him if we go after a max-contract player. And I seriously doubt Donnie would sacrifice the chance to get Lebron to sign Lee.

  5. #20
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    Originally Posted by Starks
    Lee wouldn't get signed or even thought of until LeBron picks a city.


    Here's my dream sequence.

    July 4 2010
    LeBron signs with NY for an Arod like deal (We might be looking at 200mil 10 years, or a 3yr or 4yr deal for over 100mil)

    *I have no idea how much the Knicks have in the bank so these numbers are just being thrown around

    July 13
    David Lee signs a 5 yr deal for 55mil

    July 19
    Raja Bell signs a 2 yr deal for peanuts

    July 26
    Marcus Camby signs 2 yr deal for peanuts

    August 13
    Knicks trade for Jason Terry or some other veteran that can hold down the pg spot.
    Most of those guys are close to retirement, this isn't 2006 anymore.

  6. #21
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    If Lebron is the goal, then where does Lee fit? Lebron would most likely play PF. Do we really want Lee playing Center for us? He's played well at that position but it does create a defensive liability.

    Or if we put Lebron at SF and Lee at PF, does Gallo come off the bench? Who do we get to play Center? Can/would Lebron play SG and let Chandler come off the bench?

    And we still have to resolve our PG needs. Douglas is not a starting PG in the NBA. If we sign Lebron and sign Lee we don't have enough to get a PG.

    This may all be a pointless debate. Lee will probably be asking for $11 mil which doesn't leave us enough to resign him if we go after a max-contract player. And I seriously doubt Donnie would sacrifice the chance to get Lebron to sign Lee.
    Says who?

    Lebron can easily play the two.
    Chandler does it, why can't Lebron who is a superior ball handler quick, and has a better jumper?

    Lebron can play the 2/3/4
    Gallo can play the 3/4
    Lee can play the 4/5

  7. #22
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    Default 2010 Free Agents

    The 2010 committed contract amounts for Curry, Jefferies, Gallinari, Chandler, Hill and Douglas add up to about $27.33M. I do not know the extent to which we might commit to Bender beyond the current year. Let us assume there is no commitment. Let us also assume that the cap is $54M, which is a little bit above of the high end projection at $53.6M.

    The committed $27.33M will be included in "Team Salary." We will have to renounce our bird rights to all of our expiring contracts to avoid inclusion of their salaries in 2010 "Team Salary." The bi-annual and mid-level exceptions also have to be renounced in order to avoid inclusion in "Team Salary." The mid-level is about $5.8M and the bi-annual about $1.9.

    Since we have only 6 committed players, our "Team Salary" will be increased as if we also had six minimum salary players because the roster for "Team Salary" purposes must be at least 12. The minimum player salary for 2010 is $473,604. For six the total is $2,841,624,

    Assuming no movement of either Curry or Jefferies, our "Team Salary" for 2010 will be at least $30,171M. If the cap is about $54M, the diffence between that and our "Team Salary" will be our cap space. That difference, on the cap projection of $54M, is $22.829M.

    A max contract is limited to $30% of the cap. Thirty percent of $54M is $16.2M. With one max contract, there is only $6.629M of cap space left. That will not be enough to keep Lee or get any one equivalent to Lee.

    The CBA does not permit backloading of contracts. I believe that there can be a 10.5 % raise for each year but it is not compounded. Thus if the first year of a contract is $5M, the second year can be $5.55M, the third year $6.1M etc.

    It will not help to wait until after signing a max contract before renouncing the mid-level, because you cannot add the mid-level to salary cap space.

    If we buy out Curry's last year we can add whatever discount he will take to our cap space. He should be cooperative at least to a point because he will need some playing time for any chance of a new contract.

    If we do not get LeBron, I do not think anyone else, even DWade, is worth a max contract. I would rather keep Lee, with all his defensive weaknesses than give a max contract to Bosh or Amare and lose Lee. Perhaps, if LeBron is not an option, we should start thinking about free agents not expected to get max contracts.

    It would help to move Jefferies. Moving Curry is hopeless.

  8. #23
    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oldtimer
    Since we have only 6 committed players, our "Team Salary" will be increased as if we also had six minimum salary players because the roster for "Team Salary" purposes must be at least 12. The minimum player salary for 2010 is $473,604. For six the total is $2,841,624,

    Assuming no movement of either Curry or Jefferies, our "Team Salary" for 2010 will be at least $30,171M. If the cap is about $54M, the diffence between that and our "Team Salary" will be our cap space. That difference, on the cap projection of $54M, is $22.829M.
    Thanks for the info Oldtimer. But are you sure about this? This doesn't make any sense.

    Since we have only 6 committed players our Team Salary gets artificially increased and our cap space gets artificially reduced??? Just to account for players we haven't signed yet???

    If we begin signing players does that artificial increase in our team salary get reduced?

    If this is true, what a complete screw job and cluster-f*ck. But I guess I've known for a while that if Jeffries is not traded the 2010 plan falls apart.

  9. #24
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    Default "Team Salary"

    Unfortunately I am pretty sure. Each roster spot below the necessary 12 gets filled at the minimum player salary for "Team Salary" purposes. Of course, if we were to sign a 7th player, there would only be 5 remaining roster spots, but we cannot sign anybody for less that the minimum player salary.

    Once we run out of cap space, we can sign any one for the minimum, even a veteran, so long as wwe sign him at the veteran's minimum. These would be cap exceptions. Unlike the mid-level and bi-annuals, they do not affect "Team Salary" for cap purposes except going forward.


  10. #25
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by paris401
    very well said....
    Thanks.Trillion... on waiting til' 2011: I would rather get a blow job from an alligator before waiting another year while the FO stands pat this next off season!
    Last edited by Red; Dec 30, 2009 at 17:41.

  11. #26
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Says who?

    Lebron can easily play the two.
    Chandler does it, why can't Lebron who is a superior ball handler quick, and has a better jumper?

    Lebron can play the 2/3/4
    Gallo can play the 3/4
    Lee can play the 4/5
    agreed.as far as lee, i think he gets better every year.so its gonna suck if we don't retain him.i'd love to deal him to the bulls(to meet up with noah) for their first pick.i think at this point that would be a good deal.it has nothing to do with lee's game.i love his game(besides his d) and i expect his defense to be the next thing he improves next.if that's the case you got yourself a really good consistent player.but we really can risk him walking.it could very well happen.

    the nets and the thunder are 2 teams i can see him going to.nobody is going to want to go to okc (no offense to anyone) or newark.they aren't gonna get anyone good next year without throwing 11 mill plus at a player.we can't pay him that if we expect to sign lebron.

    if he is going to get dealt, donnie needs to inquire about our pick that the jazz own first.lee's success is in direct correlation with our success. i'd offer chandler and douglas.then i'd deal lee to chicago for their first.we'd totally get raped, the rest of the season, but at least we'll have to first round picks to start our new era.hopfully surrounding the king with a wall and a **** on a hill.
    Last edited by ANU; Dec 30, 2009 at 17:38.

  12. #27
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Thanks.Trillion... on waiting til' 2011: I would rather get a blow job from an aligator before waiting another year while the FO stands pat this next off season!


    that was funny.

  13. #28
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    Originally Posted by Red
    Thanks.Trillion... on waiting til' 2011: I would rather get a blow job from an alligator before waiting another year while the FO stands pat this next off season!
    We all want we want...when we want it! Very often the quick move is not the right move. I want to make major moves next year and would hate to have to wait but I would rather wait than sign Bosh or Amare to a max deal. They will NEVER be the first option on a championship team! Lee will be better value and a homegrown all star who would compliment a superstar perfectly.

    Again, if we can't get Lebron, Wade or someone of their caliber(or a least potential like a Rose or Durant) we should sign Lee, make minor moves and get ready for a ton of space in 2011. Do I want that? No, I want Lebron and I want him yesterday!

    Listen, I feel your pain..it's my pain too! We have waited this long and may have to hold out a bit longer to get the right players. NYC has not seen glory since the early 70's and won't if we blow our wad on "almost great" players.
    Last edited by TR1LL10N; Dec 30, 2009 at 22:55.

  14. #29
    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    ...NYC has not seen glory since the early 70's and won't if we blow our wad on "almost great" players.
    Damn... if it weren't for the beginning of your post, I would think we were talking about David Lee.

  15. #30
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    after the atlanta and indiana game they have a three days off.hopefully we win those games, and donnie tries to get that pick back from utah.then he needs to start dealing.this team is way to hot in cold to actually make the playoffs, and with duhon at the point it'll be next to impossible.

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