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Thread: Buddhist Monks use Hip hop and alcohol to attract followers..

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    Default Buddhist Monks use Hip hop and alcohol to attract followers..

    Buddhist monks use hip hop, alcohol to attract followers

    By Kyung Lah, CNNcnnAuthor = "By Kyung Lah, CNN";
    if(location.hostname.indexOf( 'edition.' ) > -1) {document.write('January 22, 2010 -- Updated 0456 GMT (1256 HKT)');} else {document.write('January 21, 2010 11:56 p.m. EST');}January 21, 2010 11:56 p.m. EST

    var clickExpire = "-1"; Monk Zenshin serves up ****tails with Buddhism at the "Monk Bar."








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    • Buddhist monks take different approaches to reach young
    • One monk hosts hip hop shows at his temple
    • Another monk uses his bar to talk about Buddhism
    • Cultural affairs agency: Hundreds of temples close yearly


    Tokyo, Japan (CNN) -- Outside the 400-year-old Kyoouji Temple, Kansho Tagai, dressed in his traditional monk robes, paused and began a sutra. He bobbed his head and then broke into a lyrical rap.
    "This is an old, old story, a fantasy and longing cosmology. Hey, hey, what's the story about? It's about the Buddha, yo. Hey brother, listen carefully! You got it? No? You don't? Okay, baby, no problem."
    Tagai, or Mr. Happiness, as he prefers to be called, is delivering an ancient message to a hip hop beat. The monk hosts hip hop shows at his temple, drawing young people to a place that is traditionally filled with the elderly. His hip hop message is so popular that twice as many people now visit his temple.
    "Buddha's doctrine is a treasure for us," Tagai said. "But we're not able to convey his wisdom to the people if we only stick with the old ways. So I try to use a new way to spread Buddha's doctrine. I want to spread Buddhism to the young by using the language they easily understand. Buddhism itself hasn't changed. It's just the way it's presented."
    The ancient religion is in crisis, Tagai said, because monks are not reaching the young with a message that brings spiritual relief. The numbers support his fears. Japan is home to 75,000 temples, but those numbers are on the decline. The Japanese Agency for Cultural Affairs reports that since 2000, hundreds of temples have closed every year.
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    Younger monks like Tagai are taking matters into their own hands, by trying to attract a new generation of Buddhists.
    At the Monk Bar in Shinjuku, Zenshin Fujioka shakes up the house special. He pours a drink layered in red, yellow and pink, which he calls "heaven." His other special of the night is "hell," a spicy vodka mix that sticks with you for hours.
    Never mind that Zenshin is a monk. Sutras are shaken and stirred at the Monk Bar.
    "There's this image that monks sit deep in a mountain, training alone," Zenshin said. "But it's important that we come down into the secular world and live in modern society. An altar doesn't mean you have a temple. A temple is a place where people follow the faith and Buddha."
    "This place is a temple," Zenshin said, wiping liquor off the bar.
    To those who call the venue a gimmick, he said, "please visit my bar before judging."
    As the bar filled with smoke and patrons one evening, Zenshin paused and rang his bell. The ancient sutras flowed forth, as customers listened.
    Hardly anyone can follow the ancient Buddhist text, a Japanese that's so complicated, only monks are readily able to understand it. But Zenshin said the real religion happens as he pours the drinks, talking to his guests about their problems and soothing with the Buddhist texts.
    "Buddhism for [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] is a religion you normally only experience at funerals," said patron Naoyuki Osano, who comes to the bar twice a week. "But the Buddhist philosophy is wonderful. It's great to have a place like this for us to learn about Buddhism."

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    hahaha! why didn't that work for me?

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    This post is trash: it essentially makes it seem as if rapping and alcohol have become a part of Buddhist practice.

    And talk about hypocrisy. Your church, the Jehovah's Witnesses, has been responsible for numerous instances of sexual abuse: both heterosexual and homosexual. Your church has also assisted people in hiding children from relatives, usually one of their two parents, as a result of the parent having become an "apostate," i.e., wised up to the scam you're running.

    And so what if one Buddhist bar serves alcohol and allows a monk to rap? Did you ever consider that Buddhism is not as controlling and mindless as what you follow?

    I'll use your own book to finish you:

    Matthew 7:5: "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

    How about you deal with your church enabling, and nourishing, future rapists and pedophiles, before you attack a monk for running a Buddhist bar? Hypocrisy, at its fullest.

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    religion - the greatest narcotic.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    This post is trash: it essentially makes it seem as if rapping and alcohol have become a part of Buddhist practice.

    And talk about hypocrisy. Your church, the Jehovah's Witnesses, has been responsible for numerous instances of sexual abuse: both heterosexual and homosexual. Your church has also assisted people in hiding children from relatives, usually one of their two parents, as a result of the parent having become an "apostate," i.e., wised up to the scam you're running.

    And so what if one Buddhist bar serves alcohol and allows a monk to rap? Did you ever consider that Buddhism is not as controlling and mindless as what you follow?

    I'll use your own book to finish you:

    Matthew 7:5: "You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye."

    How about you deal with your church enabling, and nourishing, future rapists and pedophiles, before you attack a monk for running a Buddhist bar? Hypocrisy, at its fullest.

    As usual, you missed the point. Buddhism is considered a "PURE" way to enlightenment by the masses. Well educated, or just self supposed know it alls. How will getting people drunk, and rapping, help enlighten anyone?

    And please... PLEASE, stop with the hypocrisy thing. Jehovah's witnesses do not claim to be a perfect people by any stretch of the imagination. They, like all other imperfect people, WILL MAKE MISTAKES. Even vile ones. However, as a whole, Jehovah's witnesses are probably the most invisible religious group of people on the planet. Except on sat morning's when we're knocking on doors.

    The experiences you have brought up, are more than likely situations you have been told of by close friends or associates. Do not try and make it seem as if Jehovah's people are running around in complete opposition of his laws and principles. Because you will look like a fool. When a person becomes a Jehovah's witness, they are well aware of what it means, and what kind of life they must carry on. Therefore, if someone steps over the line, there is a very good chance they will no longer qualify to be a Jehovah's witness. Which explains why you rarely see or hear anything negative about one. Because they get disfellowshipped, which means they are no longer considered a Jehovah's witness.


    And say whatever you will about Jehovah's witnesses, but give credit where it is due. We do not change God's laws to fit our views. We do not have happy hour at the Kingdom hall, or pack Patron in our briefcases so we can bring in more people as we go door knocking. We just try to do the will of God to the best of each and every individual's ability.

    Meanwhile, the other major religions keep changing with the times. This too was prophesied about. It's just crazy seeing it actually come to fruition. Though I never doubted it would.

    Good day!

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    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    So, if you don't claim to be perfect, work on yourself and quit pointing at others. As for drinking and rapping Buddhist monks, if it's done with no purpose, you would be right. If it is done with the intent of teaching people how to live better lives, it makes sense.

    The fact is that many religious groups talk to people, without teaching them a thing. Your group I consider to be one of those, because it emphasizes rules, at the expense of real values and principles, which go beyond rules and into the realm of contemplation of one's actions and the effect of those on others.

    Lastly, in regard to Buddhist Monks using alcohol and hip-hop to attract followers, the phrase is misleading. The article you posted involves one Buddhist monk, from a particular sect, in a particular country: Japan.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    So, if you don't claim to be perfect, work on yourself and quit pointing at others. As for drinking and rapping Buddhist monks, if it's done with no purpose, you would be right. If it is done with the intent of teaching people how to live better lives, it makes sense.
    I work on myself daily. And when you're trying to help people learn, examples are needed. Just the way it is. You call it pointing fingers, so be it.

    You will never be able to rationalize drunkeness, with teaching. C'mon Son! with that, I should show my kids that fire burns by actually burning myself? How bout, no.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    The fact is that many religious groups talk to people, without teaching them a thing. Your group I consider to be one of those, because it emphasizes rules, at the expense of real values and principles, which go beyond rules and into the realm of contemplation of one's actions and the effect of those on others.
    You have learned nothing about Jehovah's ways if you think it's all about rules. Lets see

    No fornication, adultery, stealing, lying, murdering, lusting, and avoiding company that can spoil useful habits. Love God above yourself, and love your neighbor more than yourself. You call these rules, I call them values. Because if every person was like this, the world would be an infinitely better place. PERIOD!!!!!!! What person would come across another individual who lives this code and scoff at them saying they follow rules? *Raises hand* AN IDIOT!!!! Jehovah says hate what is bad, Love what is good. Would a person following this code be viewed a rule follower, or a loving person with real values?




    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Lastly, in regard to Buddhist Monks using alcohol and hip-hop to attract followers, the phrase is misleading. The article you posted involves one Buddhist monk, from a particular sect, in a particular country: Japan.
    Actually, if you would have read it, OTHER monks have invited this one to their temples for guidance on how to draw more followers. More followers means more money. Dolla, Dolla Bill yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaallll!

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    Yes, but Jesus himself called you a hypocrite for pointing your hypocritical finger. Why? Because you are diverting attention away from YOUR flaws and pointing at others' supposed ones, so that you can feel like the king of the spiritual world.

    And I did not rationalize drunkenness. The article says nothing about drunkenness. It says that the bar makes people feel welcome and that patrons go there to ask the monk for advice. I say that, if it gets people to reach out for help, it might be good, depending on how wise this monk happens to be.

    And your rules, to me, are not values. Values have to do with more than just, "I'll do this or God will burn me or not offer entrance into paradise." Values have to do with an actual estimation of what one is doing and its impact, thus the word "value." Following something because you are a JW, or part of any other, sect, puts the value on the sect and not on the thing one is doing.

    And you can talk about hate and love, neighbors and killing, all you want. What value does it have, if you don't know what any of those mean? And if you do know what they mean, what of all of the JWs that I know for a fact know nothing but how to parrot the watchtower?

    I would put it all on the JWs, if it was not a sad truth that this is how all of the major religions deal with their "flocks."

    And as for the article, maybe you are reading it differently; but, the only thing I see remotely in common with your view of Buddhists becoming the "club religion," in this article, is that the Japanese guy running the Japanese monk bar states that other JAPANESE Buddhhist monks are asking him for advice.

    As nearly always, you are wrong.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Yes, but Jesus himself called you a hypocrite for pointing your hypocritical finger. Why? Because you are diverting attention away from YOUR flaws and pointing at others' supposed ones, so that you can feel like the king of the spiritual world.
    I'm actually not diverting attn from my flaws at all. I'm focusing more what the faiths are teaching, as opposed to flaws in a person. No one is perfect. All I know, is if you heard Jehovah's witnesses starting packing Henny when they did field service in the hood to attract listeners, you'd more than likely vilify them. There just something oddly off about alcohol for worship. Just is.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    And I did not rationalize drunkenness. The article says nothing about drunkenness. It says that the bar makes people feel welcome and that patrons go there to ask the monk for advice. I say that, if it gets people to reach out for help, it might be good, depending on how wise this monk happens to be.
    So, the gimmick worked! What socialite does not feel welcome in a bar setting? What if a person is an alcoholic? What if that person was a past alcoholic, and this leads him back down that road of destruction? Hey, maybe I'm the only one who has an issue with it.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    And your rules, to me, are not values. Values have to do with more than just, "I'll do this or God will burn me or not offer entrance into paradise." Values have to do with an actual estimation of what one is doing and its impact, thus the word "value." Following something because you are a JW, or part of any other, sect, puts the value on the sect and not on the thing one is doing.
    No one becomes a Jehovah's witness based on the rules. You do it because you have come to know the truth about God, and out of love for him, YOU CHOOSE to do his will, which is centered around LOVE. Love is the most valuable thing the human family can possess. You got it all backwards if you think a Jehovah's witness does God's will to avoid the second death, or for the paradise. Chances are, the individual thinking that way, will falter. Because first and foremost is the love of God. Life eternal is one of the grand perks, not the focus. Get it right.



    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    And you can talk about hate and love, neighbors and killing, all you want. What value does it have, if you don't know what any of those mean? And if you do know what they mean, what of all of the JWs that I know for a fact know nothing but how to parrot the watchtower?
    I never claim to be the smartest man. Heck, let ya'll tell it, I'm a complete waste of life! But I'm pretty sure I know what hate and love mean. Maybe in Bizzaro World, they have an alternate meaning, but on planet earth, I get what they mean. Trying to catch your angle here. So please, enlighten me. What does it all really mean, kind sir?

    I'm pretty sure the other 7 million JW's know what Love, hate, neighbors and killing mean, too by the way. But what's with the parroting stuff? You think we're like robots or something? Be mindful of the fact that the very same message we preach, is the very same message that the greatest man who ever lived preached. Would you call Jesus a parrot? Should I call you a parrot because you happen to believe whoever said that Hunter Gatherer's existed? Because you are basically carrying on their message, like we carry Jehovah's. How do you feel about being a Hunter Gatherer's parrot?





    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    And as for the article, maybe you are reading it differently; but, the only thing I see remotely in common with your view of Buddhists becoming the "club religion," in this article, is that the Japanese guy running the Japanese monk bar states that other JAPANESE Buddhhist monks are asking him for advice.

    As nearly always, you are wrong.
    Lol! Club religion. That's funny. I never said that though lol. Seriously though, if they are asking him for advice, clearly they are looking at his methods seriously. What if it catches on? Then what?

    Just for clarification, how often, if ever, are you wrong? This is a side question, of course.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I'm actually not diverting attn from my flaws at all. I'm focusing more what the faiths are teaching, as opposed to flaws in a person. No one is perfect. All I know, is if you heard Jehovah's witnesses starting packing Henny when they did field service in the hood to attract listeners, you'd more than likely vilify them. There just something oddly off about alcohol for worship. Just is.
    Come on, Knicks4lyfe, you are supposed to be part of the only people that have interpreted the bible properly, and who follow it to the "t," which means you should not be pointing your finger at others in pride. I agree with Jesus, on that one.

    And, time and time again, during the numerous visits I have made to Kingdom Halls, you do just that: haughtily bash others. "Catholics worship statues, but we follow the true God." "Look at these people jumping up and down..." "Now, their priests are having sex with little boys." Oh, and system of things this, the systems of things that. Rulership of Jesus this and that.

    At the same time, you're on here, telling us that Jehovah's Witnesses don't speak against others, full of pride and hypocrisy. Bull5hit. You are not special, you are just like the rest of those that live for books and ego, instead of the world.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    So, the gimmick worked! What socialite does not feel welcome in a bar setting? What if a person is an alcoholic? What if that person was a past alcoholic, and this leads him back down that road of destruction? Hey, maybe I'm the only one who has an issue with it.
    Point taken: alcoholics should not go to a bar for their spiritual needs. However, as someone who has worked at a S.A. facility, and has intimate knowledge of the problem of drug and alcohol abuse, I can tell you that a person who has a drug or alcohol problem cannot be passively made sober. He or she has to consciously control his or her behavior.

    The world will not become free of drugs and alcohol, just because you have a problem. As such, one has to be educated as to the nature of triggers: activities that cause drug or alcohol cravings for oneself, antecedents to one's triggers (usually thoughts, feelings that cause one to "set oneself up" to be triggered and relapse) and how to be honest with oneself (as opposed to rationalizing), when engaging in unhealthy thoughts or behaviors that will lead to relapse.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    No one becomes a Jehovah's witness based on the rules. You do it because you have come to know the truth about God, and out of love for him, YOU CHOOSE to do his will, which is centered around LOVE. Love is the most valuable thing the human family can possess. You got it all backwards if you think a Jehovah's witness does God's will to avoid the second death, or for the paradise. Chances are, the individual thinking that way, will falter. Because first and foremost is the love of God. Life eternal is one of the grand perks, not the focus. Get it right.
    People always say that to themselves, "I love God." Well, how do you love something or someone of which you only have secondhand knowledge?

    And from where does your God's love come? Is it in the killing of first born? The turning of people into salt, perhaps? Is it in the killing of Job's family, as part of a competition between the "Lord" and Satan?

    Is it your feeling of submission and desire to receive your "reward" that make you "love?"

    And JW's falter, all the time. They are not the closest thing to perfection, because they are weak. If the "elders" and overseers (better word, since you people are slaves, just like the rest of the dogmatic flocks of the world) tell you to believe Jesus was the ancestor of Tayes Russel, you would believe it.

    Sure, you refuse to go to war. This would be commendable, if it were based on a profound understanding of why one should not kill the masses of other nations. Instead, your desire to avoid war comes from the same place as those who engage in it: selfishness.

    You cannot deny that JW's, from all over this country, use the same terminology and repeat the same material found in the watchtowers. You do it on here, all the time. This means that you have not developed a self separate from the Kingdom Halls and the watch towers. It is sad, because it means your inner growth is stunted.

    Truth, concepts of love, values, etc., belong to the world, not to your books and not to your founder. This is the mistake you make. You even go to windowless churches/temples/whatever. Again, it all belongs to the world and life, not your books, congregations or "elders." Even your building cannot hold off the true perception of the world and its majesty from the hearts and minds of the little, not yet brainwashed, children that enter your pews.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I never claim to be the smartest man. Heck, let ya'll tell it, I'm a complete waste of life! But I'm pretty sure I know what hate and love mean. Maybe in Bizzaro World, they have an alternate meaning, but on planet earth, I get what they mean. Trying to catch your angle here. So please, enlighten me. What does it all really mean, kind sir?
    No one mentioned hate. I mentioned love. Your religion does not teach people what either of these mean, it simply spits out instructions and constantly reinforces that it has the truth, its interpretation is correct, its followers the chosen people and that everyone else is dead wrong.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I'm pretty sure the other 7 million JW's know what Love, hate, neighbors and killing mean, too by the way. But what's with the parroting stuff? You think we're like robots or something? Be mindful of the fact that the very same message we preach, is the very same message that the greatest man who ever lived preached. Would you call Jesus a parrot? Should I call you a parrot because you happen to believe whoever said that Hunter Gatherer's existed? Because you are basically carrying on their message, like we carry Jehovah's. How do you feel about being a Hunter Gatherer's parrot?
    So now, you know what 7 million other people know. I think you are definitely defending the JW persona you feel being destroyed by almighty truth. You have no way of knowing what the feel, what they understand, their level of wisdom, etc.

    And yes, when I hear different people repeating the same tired BS, about the "system of things," "rulership," "1914," "active force," "theocratic rule," "God's active force," etc., I consider them "robots."

    This is what your particular church wants, however. And a friend of mine who walked away, after 30 years, told me that this is what you must repeat, in response to elders' questions, in order to receive baptism into the faith. You have to give some man your soul, your freedom.

    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Lol! Club religion. That's funny. I never said that though lol. Seriously though, if they are asking him for advice, clearly they are looking at his methods seriously. What if it catches on? Then what?

    Just for clarification, how often, if ever, are you wrong? This is a side question, of course.
    When you say "Buddhist monks use hip hop and alcohol to attract followers," instead of A Buddhist monk uses hip hop and alcohol to attract followers, it gives one the impression that this novelty is part of Buddhist theology.

    I have practiced Buddhism, in the past, and I know this to be far from the truth. Because of this, you have shamed yourself and your self-righteous brethren.

    And yes, though I strive to be critical of myself, and act rightly, I am often wrong. On this, any objective outsider would side with me.

    Again, heed Jesus' warning on hypocrisy.
    Last edited by OGKnickfan; Mar 14, 2010 at 12:40.

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    Og, you should look at Christianity in the form of Biblical Christianity...really the only form of it that follows the Bible, everything in it, follows correct interpretations, and doesn't use man made rituals or twist any words in it.

    Sorry knickfan4lyfe, but we've had our arguments...Jehovah's witness has many problems in it that are common and many i explained to you in the past.

    OG- You can bash Jehovah's witness all you want but all i ask is that you don't view Jesus and his apostles in the light that a Jehovah's witness does.

    Pick up an ESV Bible or listen to guys like Ravi Zacharias, John Mcarthur, Raul Reiss, Saved Jews like Kirk Schnieder, Jeffrey Seif, Zola Levitt....there is a whole understanding of the bible that is deeper than what most congregations can even fathom. Interpretations and connections between the Jewish people and Gentile Christians that are amazing.

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    Jehovah's Witnesses molested children and the organization covered it up.



    The JW's policies protect child molestors.

    "In the organization, you have to have two witnesses, and of course it's almost impossible to have two witnesses to a child molestation. So if a parent comes with their daughter to the elder, they ask and he says, no, I didn't do it, then that's the end of the matter. I would like to see them recognize it, take it to the civil authorities and professionals that are capable and qualified to help the victims." Joe Anderson, former Jehovah's Witness elder.


    It must be a false religion.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Come on, Knicks4lyfe, you are supposed to be part of the only people that have interpreted the bible properly, and who follow it to the "t," which means you should not be pointing your finger at others in pride. I agree with Jesus, on that one.

    And, time and time again, during the numerous visits I have made to Kingdom Halls, you do just that: haughtily bash others. "Catholics worship statues, but we follow the true God." "Look at these people jumping up and down..." "Now, their priests are having sex with little boys." Oh, and system of things this, the systems of things that. Rulership of Jesus this and that.

    At the same time, you're on here, telling us that Jehovah's Witnesses don't speak against others, full of pride and hypocrisy. Bull5hit. You are not special, you are just like the rest of those that live for books and ego, instead of the world.
    What you don't understand is, someone has to be right according to God in the world. Jehovah's witnesses did not decide who that is, Jehovah did.

    If people who are using his word are not using according to his will, then it is a false testimony. The Bible states clearly that Idol worship is not a thing that God wants. Neither is having sex with little boys. So therefore, why should a person following the bible do those things? Why should I follow a biblical faith that does anti biblical things? Tell me? Since you are on your high horse about how critical we are of people? Jesus himself exposed the religious leaders of his day for the same thing, yet Jehovah did not rebuke him? Why? Because the truth needed to be revealed, so that the lie is exposed! Not because he wanted to make those persons feel bad, or that he was better than they were. And today, Jehovah's witnesses are the same way.

    I don't poke my chest out when speaking to an individual of another faith. How is that going to help? I will however, defend my faith to the utmost, as they most likely will. And I've also learned that if a person is truly seeking truth, they will relinquish any preconceived thoughts of what they believe while listening to a person speak on their faith.

    That being said. I have heard your voice, I have heard lj's voice, I have heard pauls, trills, everyone who has chimed in, pro or con. But the funny thing is, none of you guys have provided a better alternative. So while I sit back and read the things said, nothing any of you have said is a better alternative, than having a personal relationship with Jehovah.

    I am not special. But I also do not try and live my life on books. God's word is more than a book, it is the way to righteous living! There is nothing better to righteousness in existence.

    And about living for the world... have you looked around and seen the world you live in? Tell me, who in there right mind would live for such a foul world? If anything, this world needs a reset. Sorry, but I do not want to live for this wicked world.


    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Point taken: alcoholics should not go to a bar for their spiritual needs. However, as someone who has worked at a S.A. facility, and has intimate knowledge of the problem of drug and alcohol abuse, I can tell you that a person who has a drug or alcohol problem cannot be passively made sober. He or she has to consciously control his or her behavior.

    The world will not become free of drugs and alcohol, just because you have a problem. As such, one has to be educated as to the nature of triggers: activities that cause drug or alcohol cravings for oneself, antecedents to one's triggers (usually thoughts, feelings that cause one to "set oneself up" to be triggered and relapse) and how to be honest with oneself (as opposed to rationalizing), when engaging in unhealthy thoughts or behaviors that will lead to relapse.
    Exactly why I posted this. If this monk was thinking more about the people, instead of getting more people to his temple, he would not have added a bar to this setting. So many things can go wrong here. Point blank. Why not just hip hop? Hmmm.



    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    People always say that to themselves, "I love God." Well, how do you love something or someone of which you only have secondhand knowledge?

    And from where does your God's love come? Is it in the killing of first born? The turning of people into salt, perhaps? Is it in the killing of Job's family, as part of a competition between the "Lord" and Satan?

    Is it your feeling of submission and desire to receive your "reward" that make you "love?"
    This is why JW's constantly remain reading God's word. The more you read it, the more you understand God, the closer you can feel to him, even though you cannot reach out and touch him. The same way a person can read about DR. King and what he has done, and come to love and respect him, even though they may have never met him.

    Lot's wife was turned to salt because she looked back longingly, as her city was turned to ashes. Which showed God that she loved the things going on there. Jehovah did not kill Job's family, Satan did. Again, one cannot love Jehovah based on what he gives them alone. Not enough. I've explained that already tho.


    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    And JW's falter, all the time. They are not the closest thing to perfection, because they are weak. If the "elders" and overseers (better word, since you people are slaves, just like the rest of the dogmatic flocks of the world) tell you to believe Jesus was the ancestor of Tayes Russel, you would believe it.
    Except we're different because we only believe what the Bible Really Teaches. So in order for the governing body to pass that over, they'd have to show us biblically how this is so. And since i already know, this can't be the case biblically, that would never happen.

    Biggest difference between JW's and other christian faiths is that we actually allow the Bible to be our final authority, and not a figure in our respective faiths. If the Bible teaches it, we roll with it. If it does not, we don't. Not so much for other faiths.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Sure, you refuse to go to war. This would be commendable, if it were based on a profound understanding of why one should not kill the masses of other nations. Instead, your desire to avoid war comes from the same place as those who engage in it: selfishness.
    How is it that you confuse not going to war to kill or be killed, selfishness? I have to hear this. Because I tell my kids it's not right to fight others, because no matter what happens, someone will get hurt. If not both parties. And then the parents are hurt, teachers upset, maybe get other kids involved. So for the betterment of all involved, and the pursuit of PEACE, why not, just not fight at all? How is that exibiting anything but love for self, and others? Explain?

    Because it appears that you are trying to make the fact that JW's are the most peaceful people on earth, a strike against them, because we follow the God of the Bible's advice to be peaceable with all men... Something I'm sure you will tell your own children to be. So... I don't understand why it would be ok for your kids to follow what I'm sure your advice to them would be, but not ok for us as Jehovah's people to follow God, ALL of our Father's, advice.

    Don't get your angle there.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    You cannot deny that JW's, from all over this country, use the same terminology and repeat the same material found in the watchtowers. You do it on here, all the time. This means that you have not developed a self separate from the Kingdom Halls and the watch towers. It is sad, because it means your inner growth is stunted.
    We are united as a people. We are SUPPOSED to use the same terminology and repeat the same material! And not just nationally, but GLOBALLY.

    And it does not mean we have not developed a self separate from the Kingdom hall, because we all have separate lives to live as individuals. Just means we are united in faith. Which only you seem to think is a bad thing.

    But somehow, I'm guessing you'd be just fine if the whole world were more like, say, yourself? Because you REALLy know what Love, Hate, Killing, etc mean. You're one of the few who truly get it.




    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Truth, concepts of love, values, etc., belong to the world, not to your books and not to your founder. This is the mistake you make. You even go to windowless churches/temples/whatever. Again, it all belongs to the world and life, not your books, congregations or "elders." Even your building cannot hold off the true perception of the world and its majesty from the hearts and minds of the little, not yet brainwashed, children that enter your pews.
    How am I to learn the value of Love from the people in a loveless world? I'm trying to figure out how you did! What does windows have to do with worship?






    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    No one mentioned hate. I mentioned love. Your religion does not teach people what either of these mean, it simply spits out instructions and constantly reinforces that it has the truth, its interpretation is correct, its followers the chosen people and that everyone else is dead wrong.
    Wrong. We do know what love and hate mean, as we are being taught by the creator of all things. By the way, are you not guilty of doing the very same things you are trying to tell me I'm doing? Hmm. Starting to think so. I mean, telling me what we know and do not know. What we follow, what it means.... I could almost see your finger wagging. Except that you have almost no clue about what being a Jehovah's witness is. So I usually just let it ride... But I"M WATCHING YOUNG LOVING MAN!



    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    So now, you know what 7 million other people know. I think you are definitely defending the JW persona you feel being destroyed by almighty truth. You have no way of knowing what the feel, what they understand, their level of wisdom, etc.

    And yes, when I hear different people repeating the same tired BS, about the "system of things," "rulership," "1914," "active force," "theocratic rule," "God's active force," etc., I consider them "robots."

    This is what your particular church wants, however. And a friend of mine who walked away, after 30 years, told me that this is what you must repeat, in response to elders' questions, in order to receive baptism into the faith. You have to give some man your soul, your freedom.
    When it comes to the faith, I can rest assured, if the person is an active JW's then I know what he knows as far as faith is concerned. It's one of the perks of being united. That is what unity is... Teamwork.

    How about your same tired BS. Hunter gatherers and such? You a robot? You must be, those thoughts did not originate with you.

    And let's get something straight, the elders in question only act as mediators to your baptism. The one really responsible, and holding you responsible for your actions upon and after baptism is God. So you don't give any man your soul, or freedom. You give your life over to Jehovah.




    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    When you say "Buddhist monks use hip hop and alcohol to attract followers," instead of A Buddhist monk uses hip hop and alcohol to attract followers, it gives one the impression that this novelty is part of Buddhist theology.

    I have practiced Buddhism, in the past, and I know this to be far from the truth. Because of this, you have shamed yourself and your self-righteous brethren.

    And yes, though I strive to be critical of myself, and act rightly, I am often wrong. On this, any objective outsider would side with me.

    Again, heed Jesus' warning on hypocrisy.
    You do realize that that was the heading for the original article right? So blame the reporter.

    And while it may not be a novelty in the whole of Buddhism, it is a story none the less in how religions are straying from their novelties to attract followers. And that was the point in the article. How will the break down of novelties help the people if you keep conforming to worldy trends?

    And by the way, would the Buddha, if he were alive, think it acceptable that his followers use a statue and pray towards it at times? Because he wanted no parts of formal worship of such, yet somehow, he has almost become a godlike figure.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Jehovah's Witnesses molested children and the organization covered it up.



    The JW's policies protect child molestors.

    "In the organization, you have to have two witnesses, and of course it's almost impossible to have two witnesses to a child molestation. So if a parent comes with their daughter to the elder, they ask and he says, no, I didn't do it, then that's the end of the matter. I would like to see them recognize it, take it to the civil authorities and professionals that are capable and qualified to help the victims." Joe Anderson, former Jehovah's Witness elder.

    It must be a false religion.
    Actually, this is not true. Whenever a situation is brought up of such things now, the authorities are brought in immediately.

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