Buddhist Monks use Hip hop and alcohol to attract followers..

Jehovah’s Witnesses are trained to lie:

1960 "the Scriptures justify the 'war strategy' of hiding true facts from the enemy." (Watchtower May 15, 1960, page 295)

1960 "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." (Watchtower; 6/1/1960; p. 352)

Please, do not try and mislead people. The whole entire article will clear this up.

● From time to time letters are received asking whether a certain circumstance would justify making an exception to the Christian’s obligation to tell the truth. In reply to these the following is given:
God’s Word commands: “Speak truth each of you with his neighbor.” (Eph. 4:25) This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive. But we may not tell a falsehood.

Thus a sister should tell the truth about her age for the purpose of having correct information on her publisher’s record card, as that comes under the purvue of right to know. Fear to do so is a sign of vanity and immaturity. Nor may this particular information be kept from a prospective mate if that one thinks it important enough to ask. Such a one would also have a right to know. So it would depend upon the circumstances whether one may be evasive about one’s age or not.

The same principle applies in the case of a patient suffering from some incurable disease. He has the right to know the verdict of a medical examination as to his life prospects. He may not be denied the knowledge that is so vital to him—just how precious his days are to him by reason of their being so few. It does not make for trust, understanding and love to deceive such a one, and the one practicing the deception will be continually plagued by a guilty conscience. If the patient is dedicated to Jehovah he certainly will appreciate that his times are in God’s hands and therefore will not have a morbid fear of dying but will strengthen himself in the resurrection hope. Some who withheld such information, intending kindness, afterward found that it had been a mistaken kindness.

There is, of course, a right time and manner for divulging such information. The time should be opportune and the manner sympathetic yet not unduly sorrowful. It may not be amiss to observe that one may be hopeful about his condition in spite of such a prognosis, since medical knowledge is not infallible today. Love, wisdom and self-control will enable one to broach the subject properly and the result can be a far greater bond of affection than existed previously. At such a time the resurrection hope, the blessings already enjoyed as a member of the New World society as well as those that still lie ahead might also be mentioned.

What about telling a prospective mate the unfavorable truth about one’s past, such as before one became one of Jehovah’s witnesses? If the subject comes up and one is asked, the rule would apply that the truth should be told as the other has a right to know. If one is not asked, then it would be up to one’s discretion and conscience. However, if it appeared that the information was vital to the other, and the other did not ask simply because he did not think such a thing likely, then the information should be volunteered, trusting in love and understanding to cover over the matter. If there is to be any disillusionment, certainly it is far better that it take place before marriage than afterward. Here the well-known principle stated by Jesus would apply: “All things, therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must likewise do to them; this, in fact, is what the Law and the Prophets mean.”—Matt. 7:12.

There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies. A Scriptural example of this is that of Rahab the harlot. She hid the Israelite spies because of her faith in their God Jehovah. This she did both by her actions and by her lips. That she had Jehovah’s approval in doing so is seen from James’ commendation of her faith.—Josh. 2:4, 5; Jas. 2:25.

This would come under the term “war strategy,” as explained in The Watchtower, February 1, 1956, and is in keeping with Jesus’ counsel that when among wolves we must be as “cautious as serpents.” Should circumstances require a Christian to take the witness stand and swear to tell the truth, then, if he speaks at all, he must utter the truth. When faced with the alternative of speaking and betraying his brothers or not speaking and being held in contempt of court, the mature Christian will put the welfare of his brothers ahead of his own, remembering Jesus’ words: “No one has greater love than this, that someone should surrender his [life] in behalf of his friends.”—Matt. 10:16; John 15:13.

not speaking and telling a lie to be lying is a completely diff thing.

You're reaching now. Please, stop.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Jehovah’s Witnesses are trained to lie:

1960 "the Scriptures justify the 'war strategy' of hiding true facts from the enemy." (Watchtower May 15, 1960, page 295)

1960 "As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise caution when dealing with God's foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God's cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God's enemies." (Watchtower; 6/1/1960; p. 352)


Witholding information when you know it and lying are the same thing. For example, not telling the truth to people about what happens when you are disfellowshipped. That is lying, and you know it.

I see no differences in the Buddhist monk serving alcohol to get their message out and the Jehovah's Witness instruction booklet telling JW's it is alright to lie to get the message out.

LJ, as usual, you're missing it.

No one said every individual JW's is acting in accord With the faith. I have said even JW's commit the most vile of atrocities.

But as whole, the organization is righteous before Jehovah's eyes, because it is the only one striving to live according to his will.

So you could pull 100 of these video's out if you wish. You wouldn't be saying anything new to people. Imperfect people do vile things. Even ones who should know better (like a JW).

Still does not change the fact that Isaiah 2 has come true. Still does not change the fact that false religion is almost dead, and JW's have been preaching it's fall for decades.

All it does is shed light on the individuals who strayed away from Jehovah's laws and principles. Hopefully, those involved will get things right with Jehovah, and have not turned the innocent victims away from him.

Good thing God is forgiving. Because people surely are not.

And you missed my point. Since you decided to lump the entire Buddhist religion as false because this particular example, I can then lump the entire Jehovah's Witnesses religion as false because of the examples I gave.


Where in Isaiah 2 has it come true? Let's see, the mountain with the LORD's temple is not higher than Mount Everest. So that is false. The Lord has not settled arguments between the nations, so that is false. The land is not filled with horses and chariots (when was the last time a you saw a chariot?), so that is false. Most people in Israel do not worship Philistine gods, so that is false.

The rest of the passage is about God being his typical petty and vengeful self. Terrifying people and making them bow down and worship him or else kill them.

Of all the religions, your god has to be one of the worst. So jealous, angry, violent and vengeful. I'm glad your god doesn't exist.
 
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LJ4ptplay

Starter
There is one exception, however, that the Christian must ever bear in mind. As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies. A Scriptural example of this is that of Rahab the harlot. She hid the Israelite spies because of her faith in their God Jehovah. This she did both by her actions and by her lips. That she had Jehovah’s approval in doing so is seen from James’ commendation of her faith.—Josh. 2:4, 5; Jas. 2:25.

This would come under the term “war strategy,” as explained in The Watchtower, February 1, 1956, and is in keeping with Jesus’ counsel that when among wolves we must be as “cautious as serpents.” Should circumstances require a Christian to take the witness stand and swear to tell the truth, then, if he speaks at all, he must utter the truth. When faced with the alternative of speaking and betraying his brothers or not speaking and being held in contempt of court, the mature Christian will put the welfare of his brothers ahead of his own, remembering Jesus’ words: “No one has greater love than this, that someone should surrender his [life] in behalf of his friends.”—Matt. 10:16; John 15:13.

not speaking and telling a lie to be lying is a completely diff thing.

You're reaching now. Please, stop.


Holy sh*t!! I'm reaching?!?! LMAO. You just exposed yourself and your religion even more by posting these three statements. Please. This is unbelievable.

This command, however, does not mean that we should tell everyone who asks us all he wants to know. We must tell the truth to one who is entitled to know, but if one is not so entitled we may be evasive.

WTF. Being evasive and hiding the truth when you know it is another form of lying. And how do you decide when someone is entitled?

As a soldier of Christ he is in theocratic warfare and he must exercise added caution when dealing with God’s foes. Thus the Scriptures show that for the purpose of protecting the interests of God’s cause, it is proper to hide the truth from God’s enemies.

You admit hiding the truth from God's foes. You consider me one of God's foes, so I cannot trust you about anything involving the JWs. You will hide the truth (i.e. lie). I have not hidden anything from you.


When faced with the alternative of speaking and betraying his brothers or not speaking and being held in contempt of court, the mature Christian will put the welfare of his brothers ahead of his own


This is just f*cked up. If taking the witness stand against a fellow JW, you will plead the 5th and stay silent. That is lying!! And this is why the JWs are a cult.


The Jehovah's Witnesses are definitely a false religion and this proves it. No true religion would purposely hide the truth from ANYBODY.
 
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Witholding information when you know it and lying are the same thing. For example, not telling the truth to people about what happens when you are disfellowshipped. That is lying, and you know it.

I see no differences in the Buddhist monk serving alcohol to get their message out and the Jehovah's Witness instruction booklet telling JW's it is alright to lie to get the message out.
But you're wrong, it does not say to lie at all. In fact it stresses, if you speak, it MUST be the truth. So it's not telling anyone to lie. It gave the example of pleading the 5th as an option, that would not go against Christian morals, in that setting.

A person who pleads the 5th can now be deemed a liar, for exercising his right to not speak on a subject? Really? How could one lie without speaking? I thought you were smarter than that. But guess not.

You're now coming across pigheaded, quite frankly. And I never would have imagined such.


And you missed my point. Since you decided to lump the entire Buddhist religion as false because this particular example, I can then lump the entire Jehovah's Witnesses religion as false because of the examples I gave.
Again, wrong. I never lumped the entire faith in because of these few monks. I simply pointed to the article as further proof of the dying of religion. One monk's success, warranted others wanting his advice, so the trends will likely continue. But that does not mean there will not remain purists.

And Buddhism is false for many other reasons besides Rapping Monks who serve drinks for followers. But I have addressed that here http://www.knicksonline.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6070


Where in Isaiah 2 has it come true? Let's see, the mountain with the LORD's temple is not higher than Mount Everest. So that is false. The Lord has not settled arguments between the nations, so that is false. The land is not filled with horses and chariots (when was the last time a you saw a chariot?), so that is false. Most people in Israel do not worship Philistine gods, so that is false.
Hope this helps.

2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream.

Clearly this speaks of the Last days. The mountains is actually not a real mountain. It's figurative. Why? Because it's the mountain of the House of Jehovah. The house of Jehovah is where one goes to worship Jehovah. So it's speaking of those who will worship him, and that worship of him, will be clearly above worship of false gods, or false worship in general. And to it, nations must stream. Jehovah's people fit the bill there without an issue. We are made up of most every nation known to mankind. Moving on.

3 And many peoples(Nations) will certainly go and say: ?Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah(true worship), to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.? (Learn and obey Jehovah)For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. Moving on.

4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

Now you say he has not done this. But you are wrong. Why? Because he has set matters straight respecting the many peoples (Nations) that have flocked towards his mountain of true worship! And those many nations have beat their swords into plowshares, and spears into pruning sheers, and nation does not life up sword against nation, and neither do they learn war anymore. Who are these ones made of many peoples and nations that flock to worship Jehovah and will not go to war or learn it anymore? Does this people actually exist today?

:)


I'm glad your god doesn't exist.
Jehovah does not exist, yet what he says will happen does? And we're the stupid ones the world says.
 
Holy sh*t!! I'm reaching?!?! LMAO. You just exposed yourself and your religion even more by posting these three statements. Please. This is unbelievable.
Not only are you reaching, but your very inept in your att. as well.



WTF. Being evasive and hiding the truth when you know it is another form of lying. And how do you decide when someone is entitled?
First, be sure to include the whole situation. It specifically speaks of enemies of God. Plus, any matter will always be up to Bible trained conscience. More than likely, if a person knows another witness has committed wrongdoing of any kind, they are first implored to approach the person and let them know they know, and give them time to approach the elders to speak on it. If it is more serious, than that person will approach the elders immediately, along with the proper authorities in the matter. This, is more so the case than not. Especially in light of how not doing it this way has brought reproach on Jehovah and his people.

You reap what you sow. A JW engaging in wrongdoing should not expect his brothers to lie for him, if caught. But there are instances when the enemy is also drumming up false claims as well. So depending on the setting, will likely dictate the situation.

It is unfair to say one not speaking on a subject, is as guilty as one not telling the truth about it. The one not speaking has not incriminated himself, while the other has. Maybe in your world they are the same, but on earth, they are not. Period.



You admit hiding the truth from God's foes. You consider me one of God's foes, so I cannot trust you about anything involving the JWs. You will hide the truth (i.e. lie). I have not hidden anything from you.
It does not matter what i consider you, only what Jehovah does. I have not hidden anything involving the faith to you. Clearly if you can whiz up something from the watchtower 40 years ago, Jehovah's people are not trying to hide it from you, smart guy ;)

We're not a perfect people. Stop looking at the people so much, and test the faith. It's genuine.





This is just f*cked up. If taking the witness stand against a fellow JW, you will plead the 5th and stay silent. That is lying!! And this is why the JWs are a cult.


The Jehovah's Witnesses are definitely a false religion and this proves it. No true religion would purposely hide the truth from ANYBODY.

Not speaking, and lying about a matter are two separate things. All those degrees and you can't tell the difference?
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
But you're wrong, it does not say to lie at all. In fact it stresses, if you speak, it MUST be the truth. So it's not telling anyone to lie. It gave the example of pleading the 5th as an option, that would not go against Christian morals, in that setting.

A person who pleads the 5th can now be deemed a liar, for exercising his right to not speak on a subject? Really? How could one lie without speaking? I thought you were smarter than that. But guess not.

You're now coming across pigheaded, quite frankly. And I never would have imagined such.

Wow man. You really are brainwashed. You are beginning to sound desperate about being exposed about your dishonesty.

Typically when someone is asked a question and they plead the 5th, they are keeping silent about something they know for fear of incriminating themselves or someone close to them. Which is what your manual has told you to do. That is being dishonest. You can't deny it.

And every time I have used man's law as an example to illustrate the ridiculousness of your beliefs, you have always rebutted by saying man's laws are imperfect and only God's laws matter.

Shouldn't you be following God's laws if your religion is perfect and the only true religion? In other words, shouldn't you be honest? And if you are always honest, why is it necessary to be "evasive" and "hide the truth". I would think the truth would never have to be hidden if you're honest.

Oh I see, you are allowed to make exceptions for whoever your elders deem God's enemies (i.e. people that expose your religion as being false). That's convienent, don't you think? SMH.


Hope this helps.

2 And it must occur in the final part of the days [that] the mountain of the house of Jehovah will become firmly established above the top of the mountains, and it will certainly be lifted up above the hills; and to it all the nations must stream.

Clearly this speaks of the Last days. The mountains is actually not a real mountain. It's figurative. Why? Because it's the mountain of the House of Jehovah. The house of Jehovah is where one goes to worship Jehovah. So it's speaking of those who will worship him, and that worship of him, will be clearly above worship of false gods, or false worship in general. And to it, nations must stream. Jehovah's people fit the bill there without an issue. We are made up of most every nation known to mankind. Moving on.

3 And many peoples(Nations) will certainly go and say: “Come, YOU people, and let us go up to the mountain of Jehovah(true worship), to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will instruct us about his ways, and we will walk in his paths.” (Learn and obey Jehovah)For out of Zion law will go forth, and the word of Jehovah out of Jerusalem. Moving on.

4 And he will certainly render judgment among the nations and set matters straight respecting many peoples. And they will have to beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning shears. Nation will not lift up sword against nation, neither will they learn war anymore.

Now you say he has not done this. But you are wrong. Why? Because he has set matters straight respecting the many peoples (Nations) that have flocked towards his mountain of true worship! And those many nations have beat their swords into plowshares, and spears into pruning sheers, and nation does not life up sword against nation, and neither do they learn war anymore. Who are these ones made of many peoples and nations that flock to worship Jehovah and will not go to war or learn it anymore? Does this people actually exist today?

:)


Jehovah does not exist, yet what he says will happen does? And we're the stupid ones the world says.


Jesus Christ. After dismantling all of your prophecies, this is all you have left? And I went over this in the other thread. You can't use circular logic like this as evidence of a fulfilled prophecy. A group that uses a book as guidance, doing what the book tells them to do, is not evidence of a fulfilled prophecy.

Like I said, with this logic, the Koran tells muslims to slay the infidels. Radical muslims are slaying infidels, therefore the Koran is true.

The prophecy will not be fulfilled until the other things happen (i.e. god comes down and kills everyone that doesn't worship him). Unless ofcourse you don't know what "fulfilled prophecy" actually means. Which wouldn't surprise me considering the other prophecies that you claim to be fulfilled.

Honestly dude. How do you convince yourself of these things? Talk about brainwashing. Or are you being dishonest again?
 
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OGKnickfan

Enlightened
The world is not perfect, but there is beauty and love in it. It is only wisdom, compassion and sensitivity that will allow us to evolve into what we should be, spiritually and intellectually. The various religions, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, who claim to be the resurrection of the lost, "real" Christian faith, which I guess was lost for 2,000 years, until some guy named Charles T. Russel found it, are no different.

Their deeds are not based on perceiving the condition of the world, of all of its sentient beings. Instead, they follow the rules of their organization, on an Earth that already organized us, in ancient times, but which we have second-guessed, to the detriment of every living thing, ever since.

Jehovah's Witnesses dress a certain way, because their organization tells them they should, for no thoughtful reason. They speak a certain way, as KFL has admitted, because they want to belong to one another and receive one another's praise. They look down on others, for the same reason: to build themselves up at others' expense. If you question that analysis, just read KFL's haughty comments on Buddhists. Others go to war for glory. They don't... for glory. They deny their children blood transfusions... for glory. They reject people who change their mind about being a JW, for glory.

He claims they know so much, feel so much, yet LJ4PTPLAY posts multiple videos where they admit pedophiles into their ranks and then cover for them. How much could they know, if they aren't even capable of detecting the black heart of a child rapist? He claims this doesn't happen "now," when the video is, at the earliest, from 2003. These are God's chosen, blind fools, who cannot even detect the heart of a rapist? He says he would plead the fifth in order to protect a JW member from going to prison. I guess that explains why his brethren do the same for rapists.

I think you are not really interested in spirituality, KFL. The fact that you divert attention from your religion, by attacking other faiths, is proof of this. Your religion is superficial in its claims of being special, "we are the only ones that follow the bible." First of all, some of us do not believe your bible is of divine origin, meaning it is worthless as part of an argument of the legitimacy of your church. Secondly, surely God does not limit membership to the true faith to a mere 7 million. Lastly, tell me where the bible talks about 1914, if you interpret the bible word for word. I'm waiting...

At the very least, you have a duty, as a human being, to think for yourself, to respect yourself enough to interpret your bible for yourself. Instead, you allow some man to possess soul and mind, to tell you what it is that you are reading, when YOU read.

I hope you can keep lying to yourself. Otherwise, like my friends, who stay in the Halls because they fear their families will reject them, after lifetimes spent behind a fence of JW theology, when truth bears no title, lies within the hold of no organization, you will suffer greatly.

Again, the world we need to be saved in, and save others in, is this one, not some imaginary paradise. And the future belongs to those that can see that, not people who retreat into a divisive, self-aggrandizing religion.

I think a conversation I had with a witness says it all. She said that she did not like Jesse Jackson, because of his involvement in politics. I pointed out that, if MLK Jr. had followed her religion's perspective on politics, civil rights might have been set back years. She stuck to her BS: preachers should not be involved in politics and when God ends "this system of things," people will be equal. F*ck that.
 
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OGKnickfan

Enlightened
Paul, I have practiced Christianity, probably over ten years ago. I don't believe in it. I will never believe in it. I can respect some of its teachings, many of which most Christians cannot even understand. However, I cannot believe in something that I have no evidence of.

This is why I like many of the Eastern religions, they teach people how to be good, how to grow in freedom and understanding of the world and themselves. It does not use reward and punishment to keep you prisoner, either.

You should give it a try.
 
Wow man. You really are brainwashed. You are beginning to sound desperate about being exposed about your dishonesty.

Typically when someone is asked a question and they plead the 5th, they are keeping silent about something they know for fear of incriminating themselves or someone close to them. Which is what your manual has told you to do. That is being dishonest. You can't deny it.
Yes typically, you are correct. But typically is circumstantial, none the less. That is not enough proof that the person will or is actually lying. And again, keeping silent about something is different from opening your mouth and telling a falsehood, which is actually lying. Keeping silent is just that, staying quiet. And again, it did not tell us to tell a lie. It said, if you speak, you MUST TELL THE TRUTH!!!!!!!! IF YOU SPEAK!!!! You keep talking down to me as if I am the one lacking understanding of the difference here, when it is you who wants to speak in a circumstantial fashion.

All I have been saying is pleading the 5th, while probably making the person seem guilty of hiding something, is technically not a lie. And seriously, you are alone if you think that a person choosing not to speak is lying. How? HE SAID NOTHING?

Last time. Manual said if a witness speaks, he CANNOT tell a falsehood. So they are Imploring God's people to speak truth. It gave an example of an option to not speak, which then means you don't speak truth or lie, you remain silent. If anything, you could say that is cowardly, or looking out for whoever they may be. That is acceptable. You don't have to like it. But to say a person keeping silent is being untruthful is almost dogmatic. You just wanna be right here , when clearly you have no leg to stand on. YOU ARE WRONG! I know it hurts, but you are. You'll live.






And every time I have used man's law as an example to illustrate the ridiculousness of your beliefs, you have always rebutted by saying man's laws are imperfect and only God's laws matter.

Shouldn't you be following God's laws if your religion is perfect and the only true religion? In other words, shouldn't you be honest? And if you are always honest, why is it necessary to be "evasive" and "hide the truth". I would think the truth would never have to be hidden if you're honest.

Oh I see, you are allowed to make exceptions for whoever your elders deem God's enemies (i.e. people that expose your religion as being false). That's convienent, don't you think? SMH.
First, the elders are not in charge. Jehovah is. They are an extension of his Kingdom on earth. They guide, not set the rules. Get it straight.

Secondly, by speaking the truth, WE ARE FOLLOWING GOD'S LAWS! Lying would break them. However, there is no law in the Bible against CHOOSING TO NOT SPEAK!!!!! And apparently, the same holds true in the United States.

And being evasive to God's enemies has at times been what was appropriate, biblically even. But being evasive, is not the same as lying. You just want it to be, because of your philosophical dogma. But, it's a fail.




Jesus Christ. After dismantling all of your prophecies, this is all you have left? And I went over this in the other thread. You can't use circular logic like this as evidence of a fulfilled prophecy. A group that uses a book as guidance, doing what the book tells them to do, is not evidence of a fulfilled prophecy.

Like I said, with this logic, the Koran tells muslims to slay the infidels. Radical muslims are slaying infidels, therefore the Koran is true.

In your mind, you have dismantled prophecy. The same way you foolishly continue to try to equate a person not speaking at all to the person speaking and lying. It's all so you can feel smarter than you actually are with your silly rhetoric, and illogical philosophies.

I'm gonna try and put you on though. This is what you said "the Koran tells muslims to slay the infidels". The word "TELLS" signifies a command, correct? Good. On the flip side, Isaiah 2 speaks of future events that will take place, and gives very specific details of what will happen. That is different from a command. So in order for your analogy to stick, you'd have to compare a prophecy to a prophecy, not a command to a prophecy. Since the Koran is not a book of prophecy, it will be very tough for you to do this. This is what makes the Bible stand out. Prophetic word.

And since I can look up and see exactly what Isaiah 2 said would happen, take place, why should I ignore it? Why didn't this happen centuries ago? Why didn't people of all nations decide to worship Jehovah a long time before the worst time period known to man? BECAUSE IF IT DID, THEN ISAIAH 2 WOULD NOT BE PROPHETIC!

Also, prophecy is not always revealed in the same span. It usually takes time to unfold, bit by bit. Which would explain why it all has not happened yet. But if some of it has taken place, why doubt that the rest will? Unless of course, you'd rather be philosophically dogmatic in opposition.



Honestly dude. How do you convince yourself of these things? Talk about brainwashing. Or are you being dishonest again?

I see things for what they are, and not for what I wish them to be. Brainwashing? This from the man who has never seen an ape man, and is never going to, but says "That's my ancestors". Yikes
 
The world is not perfect, but there is beauty and love in it. It is only wisdom, compassion and sensitivity that will allow us to evolve into what we should be, spiritually and intellectually. The various religions, including the Jehovah's Witnesses, who claim to be the resurrection of the lost, "real" Christian faith, which I guess was lost for 2,000 years, until some guy named Charles T. Russel found it, are no different.
Actually, it was lost for about that long. But Russell didn't find it, Just that Jesus became King in heaven, which meant it was time for him to set up true worship of Jehovah on earth again. Jesus did speak of Jerusalem being trampled on by the nations, UNTIL the appointed time for them was up. That appointed time was up 96 years ago. But hey, you been around JW's enough to hear it.




Jehovah's Witnesses dress a certain way, because their organization tells them they should, for no thoughtful reason. They speak a certain way, as KFL has admitted, because they want to belong to one another and receive one another's praise. They look down on others, for the same reason: to build themselves up at others' expense. If you question that analysis, just read KFL's haughty comments on Buddhists. Others go to war for glory. They don't... for glory. They deny their children blood transfusions... for glory. They reject people who change their mind about being a JW, for glory.
The bible implores modesty in dress and the like. I'm 6'3 205, built like Tyson in his prime. If I went to a door with a tank top on, and a single woman was to answer, would she think it appropriate I'm dressed that way? How serious would she take my message, likely knowing the bible teaches modesty, and here I am, cock deiseld at her doorway, telling about God's kingdom, basically shirtless? Or what if a sister, well built came to your door with booty shorts and a bottom like Kim Kardashian and a wet t-shirt with a flat stomach and 36 d's, no bra. Appropriate? You gonna take her biblical message seriously? Wise up. Modesty is a good thing.

We speak the same message because we serve the same God, and for his glory, not ours. No different than siblings of great parents would speak of them.

We build each other up, to keep up the fine fight. The world hates us because we have the truth, and it lies in Satan's hands. We go preaching to others for the love of God and neighbor, not at their expense. Why then preach at all, if it were as you say? Just let them remain in ignorance and die.

We don't go to war because someone has to die. That is most inglorious and very uncool.

Blood transfusions go against the law to abstain from blood. Not for our Glory do we obey this, for Jehovah's. I personally have had to deal with this, as my youngest son is a Hemophiliac. He nearly died because I refused his transfusion. But because Jehovah's people have been steadfast in not breaking this law, even at cost of precious life, there is something that is widely being used, and even in a lot of hospitals replacing Transfusions, bloodless surgery. So now, there is no need for a witness to worry of such things, because there is a better alternative. Even non witnesses tend to prefer this over transfusions. Go figure.

We reject those who turn their back on God, because it is a command biblically. Not because we want to glorify ourselves. Jehovah rejects those who turn their back on him, so why would he accept a people who don't do the same? Pretty simple logic, that will probably fly over your head.

He claims they know so much, feel so much, yet LJ4PTPLAY posts multiple videos where they admit pedophiles into their ranks and then cover for them. How much could they know, if they aren't even capable of detecting the black heart of a child rapist? He claims this doesn't happen "now," when the video is, at the earliest, from 2003. These are God's chosen, blind fools, who cannot even detect the heart of a rapist? He says he would plead the fifth in order to protect a JW member from going to prison. I guess that explains why his brethren do the same for rapists.
Word, son? Lemme find out I missed the section in pedophiles 1o1. They walking around with certain marks, or tats? Put me on, please! How is one supposed to detect a pedophile by looking at him? If a person becomes a Jehovah's witness, the last thing you think they will do is rape a child, or murder someone. Who on earth can detect a pedophile? You serious? Who am I suppose to consult, Hannibal Lechter? Now, you can gripe all you want, and rightly so about cover ups. ALL parties involved should be dealt with. But unless you know something the rest of us don't, quite with the preemptive detection stuff. No way of knowing.

I was baptized in April 08. That information was given to me shortly before then. So before that, I can't tell you how it was dealt with. Was not a JW's. I can only speak of what I know now.

And when did I say I would plead anything? Show me, please.

I think you are not really interested in spirituality, KFL. The fact that you divert attention from your religion, by attacking other faiths, is proof of this. Your religion is superficial in its claims of being special, "we are the only ones that follow the bible." First of all, some of us do not believe your bible is of divine origin, meaning it is worthless as part of an argument of the legitimacy of your church. Secondly, surely God does not limit membership to the true faith to a mere 7 million. Lastly, tell me where the bible talks about 1914, if you interpret the bible word for word. I'm waiting...
Divert attn from my religion. If I wanted to do that, I would never say we are God's chosen people. All that will do is draw attn, smarty. And once you say that, you must be able to show why it is that God chose your faith, vs the others. To an objective audience, and audience seeking truth, this can be done. To philosophical, dogmatic know it alls, it's almost useless. But Jehovah says everyone must get the chance at hearing the truth before he brings the end. Therefore, when he does, they will not be able to cry foul when the end for them is near. They will have themselves to thank. And only themselves.

And you're finally correct on something Biblically! Jehovah does not limit membership to 7 million. He is giving all living a chance at membership! It's just that only 7 million have accepted the invitation!

The Bible does not mention specifically the year 1914 at all. However, it does explain prophetic years and times to detect and expect some prophecies. For instance, in the book of Daniel, we're able to see exactly when the messiah would appear and die. It does not say 29 ce and 32 ce, but if you peer into the method used, you would get 29 ce as the arrival, and 32 ce as the cutting off.


I will use another post to explain this thoroughly.





At the very least, you have a duty, as a human being, to think for yourself, to respect yourself enough to interpret your bible for yourself. Instead, you allow some man to possess soul and mind, to tell you what it is that you are reading, when YOU read.
In acts 8, a proselyte was trying to make sense of what he was reading concerning Jesus (who he did not know existed) and couldn't. Phillip was brought by the Spirit to him, to explain what he was reading and who it referred to, and what must be done to observe what he was reading. Upon being made to understand what he was reading, he immediately got baptized. Point being, he had to be enlightened. Once he was, he was off to the races. Jehovah did say he would teach his people his ways, and he uses people to teach people. No different than what someone taught you about these so called Hunter Gatherers you speak of. That was not of your originality, someone taught you about it, and you ran with it.

And I know the difference between being TOLD something, and being TAUGHT to understand something. No man tells a JW anything. God's word teaches us all.


I hope you can keep lying to yourself. Otherwise, like my friends, who stay in the Halls because they fear their families will reject them, after lifetimes spent behind a fence of JW theology, when truth bears no title, lies within the hold of no organization, you will suffer greatly.
Unlike your friends, I stay in the organization because I recognize what's real. Only friend I need is God. He is real. If all of my family left Jehovah, pity them, I'm stayin. Why? Because it's the truth. And if you don't have the truth, you have the lie. No matter how well dressed up it is, it's still a lie.

Again, the world we need to be saved in, and save others in, is this one, not some imaginary paradise. And the future belongs to those that can see that, not people who retreat into a divisive, self-aggrandizing religion.
Imaginary paradise? Jehovah has already put in place the pieces for the paradise. He has organized people from all nations in love, worship and peace! If that is not part of paradise, what it? Yet you use words like divisive, when you were just saying how we all parrot the same things! C'MON SON! Jehovah's people are the most UNITED PEOPLE ON PLANET EARTH!!!!! All over the world, Same lessons. Unity. Same message, Unity. Same doctrine, Unity! Be hard pressed to find unity as such in a small household, let alone GLOBALLY! Even some of the most avid haters of my faith have been a bit in awe of how organized Jehovah has things, in a world of chaos. It is utterly amazing how unified his people are.

Divisive? How preposterous is that!


I think a conversation I had with a witness says it all. She said that she did not like Jesse Jackson, because of his involvement in politics. I pointed out that, if MLK Jr. had followed her religion's perspective on politics, civil rights might have been set back years. She stuck to her BS: preachers should not be involved in politics and when God ends "this system of things," people will be equal. F*ck that.

According to the Bible, believers in God should not be involved in worldy politics, considering the enemy is in charge of the world, and chooses who he wishes to empower to run it. It's not a coincidence when they tried to make Jesus King, he ran and hid from them. And when Pilate asked where his kingdom was, he said it's no part of this world. He did those things for a reason. In this world, no matter how noble a persons intentions, people will never be equal. Just the way it will be. Any person involved in governmental politics is trying to basically do what Jehovah says he is only capable of doing. And that's properly being able to govern mankind. Man cannot govern himself. The more he tries, the more he fails. Period.
 
1914?A Significant Year in Bible Prophecy

DECADES in advance, Bible students proclaimed that there would be significant developments in 1914. What were these, and what evidence points to 1914 as such an important year?

As recorded at Luke 21:24, Jesus said: ?Jerusalem will be trampled on by the nations, until the appointed times of the nations [?the times of the Gentiles,? King James Version] are fulfilled.? Jerusalem had been the capital city of the Jewish nation?the seat of rulership of the line of kings from the house of King David. (Psalm 48:1, 2) However, these kings were unique among national leaders. They sat on ?Jehovah?s throne? as representatives of God himself. (1 Chronicles 29:23) Jerusalem was thus a symbol of Jehovah?s rulership.

How and when, though, did God?s rulership begin to be ?trampled on by the nations?? This happened in 607 B.C.E. when Jerusalem was conquered by the Babylonians. ?Jehovah?s throne? became vacant, and the line of kings who descended from David was interrupted. (2 Kings 25:1-26) Would this ?trampling? go on forever? No, for the prophecy of Ezekiel said regarding Jerusalem?s last king, Zedekiah: ?Remove the turban, and lift off the crown. . . . It will certainly become no one?s until he comes who has the legal right, and I must give it to him.? (Ezekiel 21:26, 27) The one who has ?the legal right? to the Davidic crown is Christ Jesus. (Luke 1:32, 33) So the ?trampling? would end when Jesus became King.

When would that grand event occur? Jesus showed that the Gentiles would rule for a fixed period of time. The account in Daniel chapter 4 holds the key to knowing how long that period would last. It relates a prophetic dream experienced by King Nebuchadnezzar of Babylon. He saw an immense tree that was chopped down. Its stump could not grow because it was banded with iron and copper. An angel declared: ?Let seven times pass over it.??Daniel 4:10-16.

In the Bible, trees are sometimes used to represent rulership. (Ezekiel 17:22-24; 31:2-5) So the chopping down of the symbolic tree represents how God?s rulership, as expressed through the kings at Jerusalem, would be interrupted. However, the vision served notice that this ?trampling of Jerusalem? would be temporary?a period of ?seven times.? How long a period is that?

Revelation 12:6, 14 indicates that three and a half times equal ?a thousand two hundred and sixty days.? ?Seven times? would therefore last twice as long, or 2,520 days. But the Gentile nations did not stop ?trampling? on God?s rulership a mere 2,520 days after Jerusalem?s fall. Evidently, then, this prophecy covers a much longer period of time. On the basis of Numbers 14:34 and Ezekiel 4:6, which speak of ?a day for a year,? the ?seven times? would cover 2,520 years.

The 2,520 years began in October 607 B.C.E., when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians and the Davidic king was taken off his throne. The period ended in October 1914. At that time, ?the appointed times of the nations? ended, and Jesus Christ was installed as God?s heavenly King.?Psalm 2:1-6; Daniel 7:13, 14.

Just as Jesus predicted, his ?presence? as heavenly King has been marked by dramatic world developments?war, famine, earthquakes, pestilences. (Matthew 24:3-8; Luke 21:11) Such developments bear powerful testimony to the fact that 1914 indeed marked the birth of God?s heavenly Kingdom and the beginning of ?the last days? of this present wicked system of things.?2 Timothy 3:1-5.

[Footnote]
From October 607 B.C.E. to October 1 B.C.E. is 606 years. Since there is no zero year, from October 1 B.C.E. to October 1914 C.E. is 1,914 years. By adding 606 years and 1,914 years, we get 2,520 years. For information on Jerusalem?s fall in 607 B.C.E., see the article ?Chronology? in Insight on the Scriptures, published by Jehovah?s Witnesses.
[Diagram/Pictures on page 216]
(For fully formatted text, see publication)
?SEVEN TIMES?
2,520 years
606 1/4 years 1,913 3/4 years
October 607 B.C.E. to January 1, 1 C.E. to
December 31, 1 B.C.E. October 1914
607 ← B.C.E C.E. → 1914
?Jerusalem will be ?He comes who has
trampled on by the nations? the legal right?
 

Paul1355

All Star
Paul, I have practiced Christianity, probably over ten years ago. I don't believe in it. I will never believe in it. I can respect some of its teachings, many of which most Christians cannot even understand. However, I cannot believe in something that I have no evidence of.

This is why I like many of the Eastern religions, they teach people how to be good, how to grow in freedom and understanding of the world and themselves. It does not use reward and punishment to keep you prisoner, either.

You should give it a try.

AH! I see were your views come from now....Eastern Mysticism that has now branched into the New Age movement.
I respect your honesty but you have to understand the growing movement you are a part of.
I copied this from a guy that use to follow Eastern Mysticism all the way and then was born again but his understanding of the New Age movement is top notch:What is the New Age Movement?
The New Age (NAM) movement has many sub-divisions, but it is generally a collection of Eastern-influenced metaphysical thought systems, a conglomeration of theologies, hopes, and expectations held together with an eclectic teaching of salvation, of "correct thinking," and "correct knowledge." It is a theology of "feel-goodism," "universal tolerance," and "moral relativism."
In the NAM Man is central. He is viewed as divine, as co-creator, as the hope for future peace and harmony. A representative quote might be: "I am affected only by my thoughts. It needs but this to let salvation come to all the world. For in this single thought is everyone released at last from fear." (A course in Miracles, The Foundation for Inner Peace, Huntington Station, N.Y. Lesson 228, p. 461.)
Unfortunately for the NAM, the fear from which they want to be released might very well be the fear of damnation, of conviction of sin, and it is even, sometimes, fear of Christianity and Christians. Though the NAM is tolerant of almost any theological position, it is opposed to the "narrow-mindedness" of Christianity that teaches Jesus is the only way and that there are moral absolutes.
The NAM is difficult to define because "there is no hierarchy, dogma, doctrine, collection plate, or membership." It is a collection, an assortment of different theologies with the common threads of toleration and divergence weaving through its tapestry of "universal truth."
The term "New Age" refers to the "Aquarian Age" which, according to New Age followers, is dawning. It is supposed to bring in peace and enlightenment and reunite man with God. Man is presently considered separated from God not because of sin (Isaiah 59:2), but because of lack of understanding and knowledge concerning the true nature of God and reality.

Some problems with this:

There are no moral absolutes in the New Age. Therefore, they claim to have a spiritual tolerance for all "truth systems." They call this "harmonization."
There is an obvious problem here. To say that there are no moral absolutes is an absolute in itself which is self contradictory. Also, if morality is relative, then stealing may be right sometimes, along with lying, adultery, cheating, etc. Living in a world of moral relativism would not bring a promising future.
It would follow that if reality is relative and truth is too, then driving a car would be difficult. After all, if one New Ager thinks the light is red and another thinks its green, when they collide, their different realities will come crashing down on them. That is something most interesting about New Agers, they don't live what they believe. That is because in reality, New Age thinking doesn't work.
The New Age movement does espouse honesty, integrity, love, peace, etc. It just wants to do it without the true God. It wants to do it not on His terms, but on its own.

I only scratched the surface but I just sent this over because you said you believe in Eastern religions....in the past you, in my opinion, seem to be described as the common New Ager........this is one of the fastest growing religions in the world and it's main enemy is Christianity so I can now understand your sometimes hostile moments =)

What do you think about this?
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
Yes typically, you are correct. But typically is circumstantial, none the less. That is not enough proof that the person will or is actually lying. And again, keeping silent about something is different from opening your mouth and telling a falsehood, which is actually lying. Keeping silent is just that, staying quiet. And again, it did not tell us to tell a lie. It said, if you speak, you MUST TELL THE TRUTH!!!!!!!! IF YOU SPEAK!!!! You keep talking down to me as if I am the one lacking understanding of the difference here, when it is you who wants to speak in a circumstantial fashion.

All I have been saying is pleading the 5th, while probably making the person seem guilty of hiding something, is technically not a lie. And seriously, you are alone if you think that a person choosing not to speak is lying. How? HE SAID NOTHING?

Last time. Manual said if a witness speaks, he CANNOT tell a falsehood. So they are Imploring God's people to speak truth. It gave an example of an option to not speak, which then means you don't speak truth or lie, you remain silent. If anything, you could say that is cowardly, or looking out for whoever they may be. That is acceptable. You don't have to like it. But to say a person keeping silent is being untruthful is almost dogmatic. You just wanna be right here , when clearly you have no leg to stand on. YOU ARE WRONG! I know it hurts, but you are. You'll live.






First, the elders are not in charge. Jehovah is. They are an extension of his Kingdom on earth. They guide, not set the rules. Get it straight.

Secondly, by speaking the truth, WE ARE FOLLOWING GOD'S LAWS! Lying would break them. However, there is no law in the Bible against CHOOSING TO NOT SPEAK!!!!! And apparently, the same holds true in the United States.

And being evasive to God's enemies has at times been what was appropriate, biblically even. But being evasive, is not the same as lying. You just want it to be, because of your philosophical dogma. But, it's a fail.






In your mind, you have dismantled prophecy. The same way you foolishly continue to try to equate a person not speaking at all to the person speaking and lying. It's all so you can feel smarter than you actually are with your silly rhetoric, and illogical philosophies.

I'm gonna try and put you on though. This is what you said "the Koran tells muslims to slay the infidels". The word "TELLS" signifies a command, correct? Good. On the flip side, Isaiah 2 speaks of future events that will take place, and gives very specific details of what will happen. That is different from a command. So in order for your analogy to stick, you'd have to compare a prophecy to a prophecy, not a command to a prophecy. Since the Koran is not a book of prophecy, it will be very tough for you to do this. This is what makes the Bible stand out. Prophetic word.

And since I can look up and see exactly what Isaiah 2 said would happen, take place, why should I ignore it? Why didn't this happen centuries ago? Why didn't people of all nations decide to worship Jehovah a long time before the worst time period known to man? BECAUSE IF IT DID, THEN ISAIAH 2 WOULD NOT BE PROPHETIC!

Also, prophecy is not always revealed in the same span. It usually takes time to unfold, bit by bit. Which would explain why it all has not happened yet. But if some of it has taken place, why doubt that the rest will? Unless of course, you'd rather be philosophically dogmatic in opposition.

I see things for what they are, and not for what I wish them to be. Brainwashing? This from the man who has never seen an ape man, and is never going to, but says "That's my ancestors". Yikes



Come on man. You're just making excuses now. Saying nothing for fear of incriminating yourself, your religion or one of your own is dishonest. Flat out dishonest. You can't deny it. If someone asks you a question and you know the answer but choose to say nothing because you can't lie is still dishonest.

It seems more like using a loophole in the "can't lie" rule than truly being honest. You live a very strange life.

When you knock on someone's door and they seem interested but ask you about being disfellowshipped, you will not tell the truth. You will either use illogical language like you use frequently to explain the ridiculousness of your beliefs, or you will stay silent. That is being dishonest.

If a fellow JW is arrested and you are asked to testify against him, you will plead the 5th. That is dishonest and a clear example of how the JWs are a cult. No matter how you try and explain yourself, you are told to be dishonest in order to preserve your cult.

Same with the prophecies. Deep in your mind, you know they are false. I have shown this to you. But you will go on telling people that "spreading fishnets" means turning Tyre into a fishing village when any objective person can easily see that the prophecy is about wiping Tyre off the map to never be found again, which is false. You will take things in the bible out of context for your own purpose. This is dishonest.

You talk about the JWs being the greatest religion and only doing good. But they have destroyed many families because of disfellowship and even caused the death of several children because of your silly beliefs about blood transfusions. How can such a good religion cause so much harm? Another sign of cult.

--------------------------------------------

And yes, you are brainwashed and are in a cult. Your explanations for the above will only prove that more. It's obvious you cannot be convinced on an internet forum. It will take an intervention. Possibly your wife leaving first.

I understand why it will be difficult to give up your false beliefs. You probably had a very difficult childhood/life. You probably were in a very bad place before the JWs came into your life. The JWs have probably given you everything good in your life (stability/children/wife/feeling loved). That would be very difficult for any person to give up. Especially with the fear of likely having that good in your life forced away from you because of a disagreement.

I bet the minute you entered the door you were probably surrounded by people hugging you and expressing their love for you. This is what cults do. But it is a false love. They only want to bring people into their cult. Try giving up the JW religion and see how much they love you then. Just pretend that you are leaving so you can see what their reaction will be. You will be dropped quickly and shunned from your friends and family. How can such a good religion do these things?

How many new members are from a good, happy, well educated life/upbringing? I wonder why? How many disfellowshipped members have you been friends with? Do you still maintain a friendship with them? I wonder why?

You are exactly the type of person cults seek out and the type of person that joins. Either that or a person is raised in the cult from a child and doesn't know any better. Although, these people are typically the type that leave first.

Maybe your wife is one of these types of members? If so, will you allow me to chat with her? I am not trying to break up your family. That will happen sooner or later. Maybe not between you and your wife but eventually your children will realize the religion is false. It may be when they are 50 years old and the end of the world still hasn't arrived. But eventually they will leave. And this will be devastating to them. The sooner the whole family leaves, the better.

I am certain of this. 100% certain. The world will not end because of God. Have you ever considered how illogical it is to think of a god that apparently loves everyone, is all powerful and all knowing, and wants everyone to love him. Yet he will kill 99% of the population because they either wanted to love him but misunderstood his very cryptic and unclear book or because they happen to be born in the wrong place.

Think about it. If only JWs are saved and there are roughly 7 mil of them and the total population of the earth is 7 billion, over 99% of the population will be killed by god. That's not even taking into account that you believe only 144,000 people will be saved. So make that number more like 99.9998%.

And what about all the christians that truly wanted to love him but were not JWs? Simply because they interpreted a cryptic and and unclear book incorrectly? And you can't argue that the bible is clear and easy to understand. The fact that it takes you such intricate explanations, interpretations and translations to explain so many parts of your beliefs is proof. Even the missed prophecies of the end of the world (aren't you guys like 0-14 now?) is clear proof that the bible is not clear and easy to understand. Wouldn't an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-seeing being have known this?

And what about the hundreds of millions of innocent children brought up in the part of the world where the JW religion (or even christianity all together) is not widely known. Seems rather petty, unfair and cruel for a loving and all-knowing, all-powerful being to kill all of them because they didn't love him properly.

And just the concept of heaven or eternal paradise is obvious that it was a human invention to make us all feel better and not be so afraid of death. I mean come on. How obvious is that?

Essentially reality really only leaves 3 possible explanations for God.
1.) He is all-knowing, all-seeing and all-powerful but he doesn't care
2.) He cares but is not all-powerful
3.) He doesn't exist

That's it. But, with the added pressure of being disfellowshipped and losing everything, the chance of you accepting this reality and leaving is very slim. It is sad that you would lose your wife, children and all your friends, simply because you disagree with them about an invisible being. Just another reason why the JWs are a cult, much like the Mormons.

Good luck to you sir and remember these words when you are old. Hopefully then you will be able to warn those close to you so they don't waste their lives as you have done.
 
Last edited:

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
AH! I see were your views come from now....Eastern Mysticism that has now branched into the New Age movement.
I respect your honesty but you have to understand the growing movement you are a part of.
I copied this from a guy that use to follow Eastern Mysticism all the way and then was born again but his understanding of the New Age movement is top notch:What is the New Age Movement?
The New Age (NAM) movement has many sub-divisions, but it is generally a collection of Eastern-influenced metaphysical thought systems, a conglomeration of theologies, hopes, and expectations held together with an eclectic teaching of salvation, of "correct thinking," and "correct knowledge." It is a theology of "feel-goodism," "universal tolerance," and "moral relativism."
In the NAM Man is central. He is viewed as divine, as co-creator, as the hope for future peace and harmony. A representative quote might be: "I am affected only by my thoughts. It needs but this to let salvation come to all the world. For in this single thought is everyone released at last from fear." (A course in Miracles, The Foundation for Inner Peace, Huntington Station, N.Y. Lesson 228, p. 461.)
Unfortunately for the NAM, the fear from which they want to be released might very well be the fear of damnation, of conviction of sin, and it is even, sometimes, fear of Christianity and Christians. Though the NAM is tolerant of almost any theological position, it is opposed to the "narrow-mindedness" of Christianity that teaches Jesus is the only way and that there are moral absolutes.
The NAM is difficult to define because "there is no hierarchy, dogma, doctrine, collection plate, or membership." It is a collection, an assortment of different theologies with the common threads of toleration and divergence weaving through its tapestry of "universal truth."
The term "New Age" refers to the "Aquarian Age" which, according to New Age followers, is dawning. It is supposed to bring in peace and enlightenment and reunite man with God. Man is presently considered separated from God not because of sin (Isaiah 59:2), but because of lack of understanding and knowledge concerning the true nature of God and reality.

Some problems with this:

There are no moral absolutes in the New Age. Therefore, they claim to have a spiritual tolerance for all "truth systems." They call this "harmonization."
There is an obvious problem here. To say that there are no moral absolutes is an absolute in itself which is self contradictory. Also, if morality is relative, then stealing may be right sometimes, along with lying, adultery, cheating, etc. Living in a world of moral relativism would not bring a promising future.
It would follow that if reality is relative and truth is too, then driving a car would be difficult. After all, if one New Ager thinks the light is red and another thinks its green, when they collide, their different realities will come crashing down on them. That is something most interesting about New Agers, they don't live what they believe. That is because in reality, New Age thinking doesn't work.
The New Age movement does espouse honesty, integrity, love, peace, etc. It just wants to do it without the true God. It wants to do it not on His terms, but on its own.

I only scratched the surface but I just sent this over because you said you believe in Eastern religions....in the past you, in my opinion, seem to be described as the common New Ager........this is one of the fastest growing religions in the world and it's main enemy is Christianity so I can now understand your sometimes hostile moments =)

What do you think about this?

Well, I don't like to be labeled anything, so I won't call myself "new age." I actually associate new age with healing crystals, UFOs and other types of wierdnesss. I am into Eastern Philosophy, as can be found in the Tao, other sacred texts, books like "The Prophet," the writings of Jiddu Krishnamurti, etc.

I have a concept of God as being the collective consciousness of all living things, because it is tangible to me: all living things, collectively, create the world, in addition to providing the energy to shape the future.

I have morals and values, but they are based on what has resulted from my own search, my own hunger for an understanding of compassion, love, etc.

And none of this is about feeling good, for me. It is, instead, about finding "the truth." I do respect, and value, people's spiritual opinions, but not as truth, instead as wisdom.

And I do care about truth, objectively. I do not believe in everyone having their own truth. I do, however, believe that everyone sees something true that one is not necessarily able to see on one's own. In such a case, it is important to listen, with a critical ear.

I am not afraid of burning or going to heaven, because I do not believe either exists. I do not believe your God, which is the clan God of the Hebrews, is the supreme force of the universe. I believe the universe is the supreme force of the universe and that we are the universe.

My beliefs are bigger than some rebellion against Christianity. I believe in what makes sense to me, what gives me freedom and allows me to create my own thoughts and beliefs. Christianity does not do that, it is stale, oppressive and stunts personal enquiry and growth.

Here is a poem by Gibran, which will hopefully help you.


http://www.katsandogz.com/onreligion.html



On Religion, Kahlil Gibran
Have I spoken this day of aught else?
Is not religion all deeds and all reflection,
And that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?
Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations?
Who can spread his hours before him, saying, "This for God and this for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?"
All your hours are wings that beat through space from self to self.
He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked.
The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.
And he who defines his conduct by ethics imprisons his song-bird in a cage.
The freest song comes not through bars and wires.
And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visited the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.


Your daily life is your temple and your religion.
Whenever you enter into it take with you your all.
Take the plough and the forge and the mallet and the lute,
The things you have fashioned in necessity or for delight.
For in revery you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than your failures.
And take with you all men:
For in adoration you cannot fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair.


And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.
Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.
And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain.
You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in trees.



J. Krishnamurti, on religion


Krishnamurti: Sir, what is religion? Actually, what is religion? First of all to find out what is religion we must negate what it is not. What it is not; then it is. It's like seeing what is not love. Love is not hate, love is not jealousy, love is not ambition, love is not violence. When you negate all that, the other is, which is compassion. In the same way if you negate what is not religion then you find out what is true religion; that is, what is the truly religious mind. Belief is not religion, and the authority which the churches, the organized religions assume, is not religion. In that there is all the sense of obedience, conformity, acceptance, the hierarchical approach to life. The division between the Protestant, the Catholic, the Hindu, the Moslem, that's not religion. When you negate all that, which means you are no longer a Hindu, no longer a Catholic, no longer belonging to any sectarian outlook, then your mind questions, asks what is true religion? This is free from their ritual, without their masters, without their Saviour; all that is not religion.

When the mind discards that, intelligently, because it has seen that it's not religion, then it can ask what is religion. Religion is not what I think, but religion is the sense of comprehension of the totality of existence, in which there is no division between you and me. Then if there is that quality of goodness which is virtue, real virtue not the phony virtue of society, but real virtue, then the mind can go beyond and find out, through meditation, through a deep, quiet silence, if there is such a thing as reality. Therefore a religious mind is a mind that is constantly aware, sensitive, attentive, so that it goes beyond itself into a dimension where there is no time at all.
 
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Paul1355

All Star
Well, I don't like to be labeled anything, so I won't call myself "new age." I actually associate new age with healing crystals, UFOs and other types of wierdnesss. I am into Eastern Philosophy, as can be found in the Tao, other sacred texts, books like "The Prophet," the writings of Jiddu Krishnamurti, etc.

I have a concept of God as being the collective consciousness of all living things, because it is tangible to me: all living things, collectively, create the world, in addition to providing the energy to shape the future.

I have morals and values, but they are based on what has resulted from my own search, my own hunger for an understanding of compassion, love, etc.

And none of this is about feeling good, for me. It is, instead, about finding "the truth." I do respect, and value, people's spiritual opinions, but not as truth, instead as wisdom.

And I do care about truth, objectively. I do not believe in everyone having their own truth. I do, however, believe that everyone sees something true that one is not necessarily able to see on one's own. In such a case, it is important to listen, with a critical ear.

I am not afraid of burning or going to heaven, because I do not believe either exists. I do not believe your God, which is the clan God of the Hebrews, is the supreme force of the universe. I believe the universe is the supreme force of the universe and that we are the universe.

My beliefs are bigger than some rebellion against Christianity. I believe in what makes sense to me, what gives me freedom and allows me to create my own thoughts and beliefs. Christianity does not do that, it is stale, oppressive and stunts personal enquiry and growth.

Here is a poem by Gibran, which will hopefully help you.


http://www.katsandogz.com/onreligion.html



On Religion, Kahlil Gibran
Have I spoken this day of aught else?
Is not religion all deeds and all reflection,
And that which is neither deed nor reflection, but a wonder and a surprise ever springing in the soul, even while the hands hew the stone or tend the loom?
Who can separate his faith from his actions, or his belief from his occupations?
Who can spread his hours before him, saying, "This for God and this for myself; This for my soul, and this other for my body?"
All your hours are wings that beat through space from self to self.
He who wears his morality but as his best garment were better naked.
The wind and the sun will tear no holes in his skin.
And he who defines his conduct by ethics imprisons his song-bird in a cage.
The freest song comes not through bars and wires.
And he to whom worshipping is a window, to open but also to shut, has not yet visited the house of his soul whose windows are from dawn to dawn.


Your daily life is your temple and your religion.
Whenever you enter into it take with you your all.
Take the plough and the forge and the mallet and the lute,
The things you have fashioned in necessity or for delight.
For in revery you cannot rise above your achievements nor fall lower than your failures.
And take with you all men:
For in adoration you cannot fly higher than their hopes nor humble yourself lower than their despair.


And if you would know God be not therefore a solver of riddles.
Rather look about you and you shall see Him playing with your children.
And look into space; you shall see Him walking in the cloud, outstretching His arms in the lightning and descending in rain.
You shall see Him smiling in flowers, then rising and waving His hands in trees.



J. Krishnamurti, on religion

Krishnamurti: Sir, what is religion? Actually, what is religion? First of all to find out what is religion we must negate what it is not. What it is not; then it is. It's like seeing what is not love. Love is not hate, love is not jealousy, love is not ambition, love is not violence. When you negate all that, the other is, which is compassion. In the same way if you negate what is not religion then you find out what is true religion; that is, what is the truly religious mind. Belief is not religion, and the authority which the churches, the organized religions assume, is not religion. In that there is all the sense of obedience, conformity, acceptance, the hierarchical approach to life. The division between the Protestant, the Catholic, the Hindu, the Moslem, that's not religion. When you negate all that, which means you are no longer a Hindu, no longer a Catholic, no longer belonging to any sectarian outlook, then your mind questions, asks what is true religion? This is free from their ritual, without their masters, without their Saviour; all that is not religion.

When the mind discards that, intelligently, because it has seen that it's not religion, then it can ask what is religion. Religion is not what I think, but religion is the sense of comprehension of the totality of existence, in which there is no division between you and me. Then if there is that quality of goodness which is virtue, real virtue not the phony virtue of society, but real virtue, then the mind can go beyond and find out, through meditation, through a deep, quiet silence, if there is such a thing as reality. Therefore a religious mind is a mind that is constantly aware, sensitive, attentive, so that it goes beyond itself into a dimension where there is no time at all.
unfortunetly everybody is labeled something...for example, even if you believe in nothing and that nothing has meaning, your a Nihilist lol But I see what you mean about not wanting to be labeled something, this is a common view that is growing among people these days.

I focused on what you said about finding truth, this is interesting because in my church today the pastor was talking about this exact topic. How many people have adopted Eastern Philosophies and are "seekers" or people who constantly look for "the truth."

Just want your opinion on something he said, "Many people adopt the life long journey of always seeking the "truth" because if they found the truth, then they would have to submit to it. Thus, they constantly seek the truth and will never find it because they never want to submit to anything that is not their own opinion or what they feel is the truth." I paraphrased some of it but I remember him saying that.

I always point out when someone says that they don't care about Heaven or Hell....i always ask this question... "putting aside your opinion of why God has a heaven and hell, what if your wrong, don't you fear even a 1% possbility of this place being real and you suffering for eternity with no one to help you because you rejected God countless times?" In your case, its a hypothetical question, but a question of truth. If I am right about God and the afterlife, then you have countlessly rejected Him and basically have no excuse to not be in Hell to suffer. It's the #1 fear you can ever imagine...this obviously sounds like a question to just put fear in you to repent just like the Catholic Church abused during the Dark Ages...but it is a question worth asking because no one wants to be in Hell, I don't care how confident you sound saying that you can handle Hell or don't care about it....if this place is real...and your wrong...then you will make the biggest mistake of your life....just something to think about.

In my opinion, you see my God as this hostile and contradictory God so instead of looking at it from another angle, you just do whatever you want to do, which is understandable because of your free will and the everyday distractions in this world that view Jesus and Christianity in a negative light.

Honestly, I'm not just talking about you but many people I have discussed this topic with about God. People don't understand my God entirely. They take stuff out of context and say "look you see how bad your God is!" Without looking at why a loving God would even consider something besides forgiveness.
Think of my God this way, the most mis-understood being that has his creation mis-understanding Him because He gave them free will- to do whatever you want to do and believe whatever you want. BUT he gives you free will not because he enjoys the punishment of those who miss-understand him to suffer in Hell, because He loves you so much that He doesn't want to force you to believe in Him. He wants you to seek Him, find Him, and understand Him because He is the Truth.

You say you look for truth, compassion, and love. I say that when it comes to those topics, the Bible shows it more than any thing I have ever seen, and shows the experiences and themes of why we even have love, and compassion. You say your looking for truth and Jesus said in John 14:6 "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." We would not have the ability to love if there was not someone who created us that possessed those same abilities.
God made man in His own image, gave everything to his creation, and gave free will so that He would know who would honestly and truthfully love Him and understand Him.

This is where everything fell apart....God gave us everything as I explained and gifted us with free will....BUT the common experience happened with man on this Earth, man was tempted by evil desires, did what he felt was proper and just, rejecting God's word, biting the hand that fed him.....so then ask yourself...does a man who rejects God and everything He gave us, even deserve to be in Heaven? Think logically, intellectually, and simply...the answer is NO. But you see that is still man's opinion...
I say that but God can still forgive someone like you or whoever who has spit on his name countless times, arguing against him like Saul of Tarsus did persecuting and killing Christians as a Pharisee, then realizing that he was persecuting God's people and doing what man felt neccessary....Saul was then transformed completely into Paul, probably the most famous of all of God's followers for writing ten books in the Bible and being accused countless times and evading death everytime until his last days as a Martyr.

Every apostle was martyred because they knew that what they believed in was the Truth....you will say that they were brainwashed and that they are no different from radical Muslims dying for Allah Akbar. The apostles were not martyred because they felt that if they died for Christ that they would be in Heaven with all these rewards, they understood that there were rewards but were against all odds and had everyone against them, but they trusted in God, who they saw and lived with who was named Jesus. They were convinced and even Judas was decieved. He performed so many miracles that not even half of them were recorded as it says in the Bible. The Book of Isiah talked about Jesus in countless chapters in detail talking about Him in the name of Messiah and then describing His life...the book of Isiah was written in 700-500 B.C!

So what I am saying is be open minded and think outside a box. You think you know everything about Christianity because if I remember correctly you were a Christian at one point and rejected it thinking it was a farse. Many have had your experience but what I am saying is that something led you away from the Truth and now you are arguing against it....it takes an experience like yours to understand the road you have gone down. We learn from trials and all of God's followers have trials that are almost impossible to imagine...the apostles had it the worst.

Christianity has it's false teachers, I will never say that Christianity is 100% pure because there are too many teachers in the world that spread false information about the Bible. I learn everyday about the Bible, but I know I am on the right path and everything I see in the Bible I also see in the world around me. This book was written thousands of years ago and it relates to my life more than anything else I have ever experienced.

The hardest thing to do in your life is to accept that you are wrong and submit to someone or something. Human nature does not want to submit to anything but itself. I realized that there are two paths...just like every story, just like every extreme has two sides....there are two sides to everything...Good and Evil stems from this. Everyone is fighting in that grey area and in the end you will know whether you are in the black or white....I don't want you to be in the black. If any Christian rejects you OG, then I will strike him myself for that is not what the Lord taught His people to do. You can slander me all you want and say all day how wrong I am and how wrong my God is, but I will love you and everyone else in this world because that is the man that Jesus was. With love comes compassion, and with compassion comes honesty, and with honestly comes truth. And with truth comes the answer you were always seeking.

I found the truth and it wasn't easy or a lullaby story, it's never easy, but it is worth every second. I hope you find the truth, brother.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
unfortunetly everybody is labeled something...for example, even if you believe in nothing and that nothing has meaning, your a Nihilist lol But I see what you mean about not wanting to be labeled something, this is a common view that is growing among people these days.

I focused on what you said about finding truth, this is interesting because in my church today the pastor was talking about this exact topic. How many people have adopted Eastern Philosophies and are "seekers" or people who constantly look for "the truth."

Just want your opinion on something he said, "Many people adopt the life long journey of always seeking the "truth" because if they found the truth, then they would have to submit to it. Thus, they constantly seek the truth and will never find it because they never want to submit to anything that is not their own opinion or what they feel is the truth." I paraphrased some of it but I remember him saying that.

I always point out when someone says that they don't care about Heaven or Hell....i always ask this question... "putting aside your opinion of why God has a heaven and hell, what if your wrong, don't you fear even a 1% possbility of this place being real and you suffering for eternity with no one to help you because you rejected God countless times?" In your case, its a hypothetical question, but a question of truth. If I am right about God and the afterlife, then you have countlessly rejected Him and basically have no excuse to not be in Hell to suffer. It's the #1 fear you can ever imagine...this obviously sounds like a question to just put fear in you to repent just like the Catholic Church abused during the Dark Ages...but it is a question worth asking because no one wants to be in Hell, I don't care how confident you sound saying that you can handle Hell or don't care about it....if this place is real...and your wrong...then you will make the biggest mistake of your life....just something to think about.

In my opinion, you see my God as this hostile and contradictory God so instead of looking at it from another angle, you just do whatever you want to do, which is understandable because of your free will and the everyday distractions in this world that view Jesus and Christianity in a negative light.

Honestly, I'm not just talking about you but many people I have discussed this topic with about God. People don't understand my God entirely. They take stuff out of context and say "look you see how bad your God is!" Without looking at why a loving God would even consider something besides forgiveness.
Think of my God this way, the most mis-understood being that has his creation mis-understanding Him because He gave them free will- to do whatever you want to do and believe whatever you want. BUT he gives you free will not because he enjoys the punishment of those who miss-understand him to suffer in Hell, because He loves you so much that He doesn't want to force you to believe in Him. He wants you to seek Him, find Him, and understand Him because He is the Truth.

You say you look for truth, compassion, and love. I say that when it comes to those topics, the Bible shows it more than any thing I have ever seen, and shows the experiences and themes of why we even have love, and compassion. You say your looking for truth and Jesus said in John 14:6 "I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life." We would not have the ability to love if there was not someone who created us that possessed those same abilities.
God made man in His own image, gave everything to his creation, and gave free will so that He would know who would honestly and truthfully love Him and understand Him.

This is where everything fell apart....God gave us everything as I explained and gifted us with free will....BUT the common experience happened with man on this Earth, man was tempted by evil desires, did what he felt was proper and just, rejecting God's word, biting the hand that fed him.....so then ask yourself...does a man who rejects God and everything He gave us, even deserve to be in Heaven? Think logically, intellectually, and simply...the answer is NO. But you see that is still man's opinion...
I say that but God can still forgive someone like you or whoever who has spit on his name countless times, arguing against him like Saul of Tarsus did persecuting and killing Christians as a Pharisee, then realizing that he was persecuting God's people and doing what man felt neccessary....Saul was then transformed completely into Paul, probably the most famous of all of God's followers for writing ten books in the Bible and being accused countless times and evading death everytime until his last days as a Martyr.

Every apostle was martyred because they knew that what they believed in was the Truth....you will say that they were brainwashed and that they are no different from radical Muslims dying for Allah Akbar. The apostles were not martyred because they felt that if they died for Christ that they would be in Heaven with all these rewards, they understood that there were rewards but were against all odds and had everyone against them, but they trusted in God, who they saw and lived with who was named Jesus. They were convinced and even Judas was decieved. He performed so many miracles that not even half of them were recorded as it says in the Bible. The Book of Isiah talked about Jesus in countless chapters in detail talking about Him in the name of Messiah and then describing His life...the book of Isiah was written in 700-500 B.C!

So what I am saying is be open minded and think outside a box. You think you know everything about Christianity because if I remember correctly you were a Christian at one point and rejected it thinking it was a farse. Many have had your experience but what I am saying is that something led you away from the Truth and now you are arguing against it....it takes an experience like yours to understand the road you have gone down. We learn from trials and all of God's followers have trials that are almost impossible to imagine...the apostles had it the worst.

Christianity has it's false teachers, I will never say that Christianity is 100% pure because there are too many teachers in the world that spread false information about the Bible. I learn everyday about the Bible, but I know I am on the right path and everything I see in the Bible I also see in the world around me. This book was written thousands of years ago and it relates to my life more than anything else I have ever experienced.

The hardest thing to do in your life is to accept that you are wrong and submit to someone or something. Human nature does not want to submit to anything but itself. I realized that there are two paths...just like every story, just like every extreme has two sides....there are two sides to everything...Good and Evil stems from this. Everyone is fighting in that grey area and in the end you will know whether you are in the black or white....I don't want you to be in the black. If any Christian rejects you OG, then I will strike him myself for that is not what the Lord taught His people to do. You can slander me all you want and say all day how wrong I am and how wrong my God is, but I will love you and everyone else in this world because that is the man that Jesus was. With love comes compassion, and with compassion comes honesty, and with honestly comes truth. And with truth comes the answer you were always seeking.

I found the truth and it wasn't easy or a lullaby story, it's never easy, but it is worth every second. I hope you find the truth, brother.

Really? You found the truth, and it wasn't easy? Well, in this country, becoming a Christian is a cakewalk. Everywhere you turn, there's some Christian trying to recruit you to their religion. And it's an orgy session, each time you attend "service:" you spend your time stroking one another's egos, "we're going to be saved, we're true believers."

And what makes your book any truer than any other? You believe in yours, so you will offer a compelling explanation as to why the evidence is all in the book. If I ask the same of a Muslim, Hindu, etc., they will say the same thing, even though they follow an entirely different religion and set of texts. So... why am I supposed to believe in your book and drop what fulfills me spiritually? Because you, like them, believe, in full splendor of your attachment to the future promise of reward, that you are right?

And searching for truth is actually THE true way of submitting to truth, because truth does not live in your book or in the words of the mere mortal you call a pastor. It does not reside with the God of the Hebrews or that of the Babylonians: the people from whom their, and your, religion comes. Truth is transient, it has no beginning, no end, no one can monopolize it. Truth fits the definition, in fact, of your God: omnipresent, omniscient, etc.

Truth is everywhere, in uncountable places. While the writers of your bible knew nothing of the world outside of the immediate area, Truth held there were more people, who lived and experienced richly. Submission to truth means one has submitted to constantly evaluating, honestly, without the distraction of devils and demons as the cause of our problems. It also pushes us to be responsible for what we do and does not simply give us a reward for being a member of a religion.

You truly cannot see how cheap your religion is? You use threats of suffering and pain to try to intimidate the weak and the selfish into following your beliefs and making you feel better. Fortunately, I am not weak, I am not selfish. I know that which I write about, it's not a fad, it's not superficial.

And any being that would punish a person for refusing to believe in a book that provides no evidence of its veracity, while forgiving and accepting the countless scum that claim to be Christian, and sport crucifixes around their necks, is evil.

As I told KFL, truth goes everywhere and touches everything, whether you perceive it or not. Your problem is that your spirituality has, instead, limited your understanding of truth to rules and interpretations that don't inspire thought, contemplation or disinterested action.

Any being that would want that from you would be utterly devoid of care, in regards to your spiritual, emotional and psychological growth. You might not feel this to be the case, because you are self indulging, your pastor, fellow parishioners, etc., make you feel good about the gilded cage you have locked yourself in.

Meanwhile, you are likely conflicted. You don't understand why things are as they are. You act one way, in front of the church and another way at home. You are not satisfied that you understand all of the things in the world, in spite of having read so much church material.

I'll let Lord Buddha (Mr. Truth), no threats, no fairy-tales, take over this debate:

"Learn to distinguish between Self and Truth. Self is the cause of selfishness and the source of evil; truth cleaves to no self; it is universal and leads to justice and righteousness. Self: that which seems to those who love their self as their being, is not the eternal, the everlasting, the imperishable. Seek not self, but seek the truth.

If we liberate our souls from our petty selves, wish no ill to others, and become clear as a crystal diamond, reflecting the light of truth, what a radiant picture will appear in us mirroring things as they are, without the admixture of burning desires, without the distortion of erroneous illusion, without the agitation of clinging and unrest.

All compound things shall be dissolved again, worlds will break to pieces and our individualities will be scattered; but the words of Buddha will remain for ever."
 
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Come on man. You're just making excuses now. Saying nothing for fear of incriminating yourself, your religion or one of your own is dishonest. Flat out dishonest. You can't deny it. If someone asks you a question and you know the answer but choose to say nothing because you can't lie is still dishonest.

It seems more like using a loophole in the "can't lie" rule than truly being honest. You live a very strange life.
This is nuts. It never told them to lie. You just have a vendetta against all faiths, and since you can't disprove Jehovah with all your vast knowledge you possess, you rant. Call it what you like.

When you knock on someone's door and they seem interested but ask you about being disfellowshipped, you will not tell the truth. You will either use illogical language like you use frequently to explain the ridiculousness of your beliefs, or you will stay silent. That is being dishonest.
I would expect nothing else from an ape, but you're human man, I'mma need you to get it together. Disfellowshipping is a bible based provision if needed, and again, the brothers do not decide to disfellowship a person, the person does. They do that when they exibit behavior contrary to Christian teachings and morals. If the bible warns against bad association spoiling useful habits, why then should a person remain among those with useful habits, when they no longer exibit them? Would that not be a dangerous thing for those trying to do as Jehovah asks? I mean, come on genius, wake up!

If a fellow JW is arrested and you are asked to testify against him, you will plead the 5th. That is dishonest and a clear example of how the JWs are a cult. No matter how you try and explain yourself, you are told to be dishonest in order to preserve your cult.
So you know what I will do? How? You have the ability to foresee now?

Same with the prophecies. Deep in your mind, you know they are false. I have shown this to you. But you will go on telling people that "spreading fishnets" means turning Tyre into a fishing village when any objective person can easily see that the prophecy is about wiping Tyre off the map to never be found again, which is false. You will take things in the bible out of context for your own purpose. This is dishonest.
You have shown me what you think the prophecy is. But what I have learned makes more sense honestly. Your interpretations lack the full scope. If you took into account the full prophecy, it might open you up to new thinking. But new thinking requires humility. That may be a problem for a know it all.

You talk about the JWs being the greatest religion and only doing good. But they have destroyed many families because of disfellowship and even caused the death of several children because of your silly beliefs about blood transfusions. How can such a good religion cause so much harm? Another sign of cult.
Again, you wanna blame Jehovah's standards of good, for the flaws of wrong doers. For the last time, a person disfellowships themselves by breaking God's laws without repentance. Therefore, if the person is so loving and caring of God, themselves and their fam, would they put those relationships in jeopardy by turning away from God and those who love him? NO!!!! The brothers will try everything in their power to help a person see the erring in their ways according to Jehovah. If they do not repent they are effectively telling Jehovah F_U. That's unacceptable. Their fault, not anyone elses. They can go and cry foul all they wish, but in their heart they'll always know the fault lies within.

As far as blood goes, very clear counsel on that. Better to die upholding Jehovah's laws and principles than not. Yes, death hurts and it may seem like a stupid rule, but blood transfusions have helped spread diseases and such as well. Not fulproof. And today there are advances that make transfusion not even necessary. So get over it.

--------------------------------------------

And yes, you are brainwashed and are in a cult. Your explanations for the above will only prove that more. It's obvious you cannot be convinced on an internet forum. It will take an intervention. Possibly your wife leaving first.
My wife was church of Christ all of her life before she started learning the truth. She knows Jehovah Hates divorce. Fat chance she is leaving me bud.

I understand why it will be difficult to give up your false beliefs. You probably had a very difficult childhood/life. You probably were in a very bad place before the JWs came into your life. The JWs have probably given you everything good in your life (stability/children/wife/feeling loved). That would be very difficult for any person to give up. Especially with the fear of likely having that good in your life forced away from you because of a disagreement.
Grew up in a Baptist household. We converted to the truth. Life is hard for everyone, if you have not been paying attention. But I'm logical. Jehovah has provided logical answers for why things are and how to fix it. and yes, they are better than the ones you give. In fact, you are hopeless. Because you have no answers of hope for mankind. Just impending doom. This is it, enjoy it and die. The earth will blow up in a few million years anyways. Etc. Enjoy that.

I bet the minute you entered the door you were probably surrounded by people hugging you and expressing their love for you. This is what cults do. But it is a false love. They only want to bring people into their cult. Try giving up the JW religion and see how much they love you then. Just pretend that you are leaving so you can see what their reaction will be. You will be dropped quickly and shunned from your friends and family. How can such a good religion do these things?
You will only continue to get shunned if you show an unrepentant attitude, which most disfellowshipped persons exibit. If one turns back from shunning Jehovah, they will be accepted with open arms... Like the prodigal son. But it takes that first step.

How many new members are from a good, happy, well educated life/upbringing? I wonder why? How many disfellowshipped members have you been friends with? Do you still maintain a friendship with them? I wonder why?
Plenty of Jehovah's witnesses come from the so called "good life" Money, power, prestige. But find doing things Jehovah's way lend to a much more fulfilling life. Only a fool would imply that all new Jehovah's witnesses were lacking education and the good life. Are you a fool?

You've run disfellowshipping into the ground. Common sense should tell you why it's necessary. You have that ability, I'm sure...

You are exactly the type of person cults seek out and the type of person that joins. Either that or a person is raised in the cult from a child and doesn't know any better. Although, these people are typically the type that leave first.
You are pretending to know me now. Comical.

Maybe your wife is one of these types of members? If so, will you allow me to chat with her? I am not trying to break up your family. That will happen sooner or later. Maybe not between you and your wife but eventually your children will realize the religion is false. It may be when they are 50 years old and the end of the world still hasn't arrived. But eventually they will leave. And this will be devastating to them. The sooner the whole family leaves, the better.
Why can we never discuss these matters without you bringing up my family? I don't get it. I have asked very nicely on more than one occasion that we keep it relatively civil and family free. I address, you and vice versa. You're really getting ridiculously personal now.

I am certain of this. 100% certain. The world will not end because of God. Have you ever considered how illogical it is to think of a god that apparently loves everyone, is all powerful and all knowing, and wants everyone to love him. Yet he will kill 99% of the population because they either wanted to love him but misunderstood his very cryptic and unclear book or because they happen to be born in the wrong place.
Excuses, excuses. Jehovah cannot bring the end of this wicked system without giving everyone ample chance to know the truth and be saved. People are doing just what you are doing. Saying "there is no Jehovah", in one form or the other. But when it hits the fan, no one will be able to say "I never got my Watchtower" Or never heard of Jehovah's witnesses. No, he will not provide that excuse. Jehovah's witnesses are completing the most thorough preaching in human history. There is very little ground left uncovered in the world by them. No one will be able to say I was not given a chance. Excuses...

Think about it. If only JWs are saved and there are roughly 7 mil of them and the total population of the earth is 7 billion, over 99% of the population will be killed by god. That's not even taking into account that you believe only 144,000 people will be saved. So make that number more like 99.9998%.
Actually, the 144k are almost all secure. Less than 10 k remain alive on earth today. The process of them being chosen started in pentecost 33. That is when the way to heaven was open. The rest of the witnesses have the earthly hope. And what's the problem with 7 million being saved? You do know Jehovah plans to resurrect billions of people, correct? Or did you not take time to learn that?


And what about all the christians that truly wanted to love him but were not JWs? Simply because they interpreted a cryptic and and unclear book incorrectly? And you can't argue that the bible is clear and easy to understand. The fact that it takes you such intricate explanations, interpretations and translations to explain so many parts of your beliefs is proof. Even the missed prophecies of the end of the world (aren't you guys like 0-14 now?) is clear proof that the bible is not clear and easy to understand. Wouldn't an all-knowing, all-powerful, all-seeing being have known this?
If a person truly wants to love God, they will love him his way, not theirs. Therefore, a person seeking the truth of God, will receive the truth, because Jehovah would NEVER deny a person truly seeking him access. Which is why Most of Jehovah's witnesses come from other faiths, because they were truly seeking him, and he in turn let them find him. EVERYONE will have a chance to learn the truth. Even Christians of other sects. It's on them to accept it.

And we're not prophets in that sense. So no we're not 0-14.


And what about the hundreds of millions of innocent children brought up in the part of the world where the JW religion (or even christianity all together) is not widely known. Seems rather petty, unfair and cruel for a loving and all-knowing, all-powerful being to kill all of them because they didn't love him properly.
There will be no such excuse provided. Jesus said the Good news of the Kingdom will be preached in the ENTIRE INHABITED EARTH... AND THEN THE END WILL COME. That is why Jehovah's people are everywhere..... Because everyone must have a chance. There will be no such excuse.


And just the concept of heaven or eternal paradise is obvious that it was a human invention to make us all feel better and not be so afraid of death. I mean come on. How obvious is that?

Essentially reality really only leaves 3 possible explanations for God.
1.) He is all-knowing, all-seeing and all-powerful but he doesn't care
2.) He cares but is not all-powerful
3.) He doesn't exist
Adam already had that prospect of life everlasting. He chose to go away from it. If he never sins we're all good. So it's not far fetched to believe.

1.) He is all-knowing, all-seeing and all-powerful and caring, but is allowing suffering to continue for a time to show who has the right to rule, him or mankind. Fixed.

That's it. But, with the added pressure of being disfellowshipped and losing everything, the chance of you accepting this reality and leaving is very slim. It is sad that you would lose your wife, children and all your friends, simply because you disagree with them about an invisible being. Just another reason why the JWs are a cult, much like the Mormons.

Good luck to you sir and remember these words when you are old. Hopefully then you will be able to warn those close to you so they don't waste their lives as you have done.

Trying to figure out why you want me to lose my family and friends so much, monkey man?
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
The answers you gave were expected. I don't want you to lose your family. That will eventually happen if you stay with the JW's. I am warning you to prevent it. But an internet forum can not help brainwashed cult followers. Something else will have to happen.

Perhaps the end of the world not occurring? How many years will it take before you realize your religion is wrong? 25 years? 50 years? Give me an approximate number that you would feel comfortable with.

If 25 years go by and the world still has not ended will you agree that you were wrong?
 
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The answers you gave were expected. I don't want you to lose your family. That will eventually happen if you stay with the JW's. I am warning you to prevent it. But an internet forum can not help brainwashed cult followers. Something else will have to happen.
I'm brainwashed because the information I received from the Bible training I have incurred, has convinced me that Jehovah is God, and what I have learned is the truth. Yet, you're not brainwashed, but enlightened and considered a free thinker, because of the info you have received in science, apes and mankind? Great.

Perhaps the end of the world not occurring? How many years will it take before you realize your religion is wrong? 25 years? 50 years? Give me an approximate number that you would feel comfortable with.

If 25 years go by and the world still has not ended will you agree that you were wrong?
I have told you before that I doubt this system has ten years left in it, and you keep talking 25 and 50. But the truth is no man knows the exact time the end will come. But based on the signs, won't be much longer. I highly doubt we have ten years left in this system. The world is the worst it's ever been with no relief in sight. Even if I did not believe in Jehovah's word, I could look up and see a future full of hopelessness. The smarter man gets, the more dangerous they become, and the more disillusioned. The world outside of Jehovah is not good. There is no better alternative. And, the world is growing more and more fed up with religion by the second. Honestly, can you not see the end of religion as we know it on the horizon? I'm sure you can see it, and cannot wait for it to be a reality. But know that the day religion dies, is the day that Jehovah said time is up.
 

LJ4ptplay

Starter
I'm brainwashed because the information I received from the Bible training I have incurred, has convinced me that Jehovah is God, and what I have learned is the truth. Yet, you're not brainwashed, but enlightened and considered a free thinker, because of the info you have received in science, apes and mankind? Great.

Yep. Pretty much.

I have told you before that I doubt this system has ten years left in it, and you keep talking 25 and 50. But the truth is no man knows the exact time the end will come. But based on the signs, won't be much longer. I highly doubt we have ten years left in this system. The world is the worst it's ever been with no relief in sight. Even if I did not believe in Jehovah's word, I could look up and see a future full of hopelessness. The smarter man gets, the more dangerous they become, and the more disillusioned. The world outside of Jehovah is not good. There is no better alternative. And, the world is growing more and more fed up with religion by the second. Honestly, can you not see the end of religion as we know it on the horizon? I'm sure you can see it, and cannot wait for it to be a reality. But know that the day religion dies, is the day that Jehovah said time is up.

10 years it is then. I will remind you every year, for the next 10 years that God still hasn't come down and ended the world. But since you are incappable of accepting the truth, you will then say "well, definitely in the next 10 years". This is how cults like yours survive. The JW's have been doing this same thing for over 100 years now. Every 10 years or so, they say "we promise, in the next 10 years...".

And yes, I think religion is one of the worst things man has ever invented. But unfortunately because of uneducated people despereate to believe and willing to ignore facts and evidence, and forcing their superstitions on their children and threatening them with punishment from an invisible being if they don't believe, religion will always exist.

But less and less people will believe the more we educate them, the more we learn about the universe, the natural world and genetics and the longer we go with God still not coming down to destroy us all. Like you, hopefully in 10 years, when God still hasn't come down to end the world.

Because eventually you will have to realize that your religion is wrong. If you expect God to come down within the next 10 years, how will you still believe in 20 years?

I am 100% certain of this. Without a shadow of a doubt. It is only a shame that it will take you so many years of your life completely wasted for you to realize. And that is why I am warning you now. Someday you will look back on these debates and remember.
 
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