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Thread: The 2010 Alternative: Moves Successful GM's make, a must read!

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Default The 2010 Alternative: Moves Successful GM's make, a must read!

    The more that I understand the rules for signing FA's the more stupid the 2010 plan has become to me.

    This time last year I thought that we could sign our own FA's without spending our cap and then use the cap room we have to sign other FA's.....NOT THE CASE!

    Then I thought that we would had the MLE to use -thanks to an article written by Peter Vescey- that too is not the case - I now know that thanks to information provided by our very own LJ-

    So I can not see the logic in Donnie Walsh's current approach!

    Danny Ainge was Boston's version of Isiah Thomas -minus the harrassment suits- but he is considered to one of the best GMs now all because he made some ballsy moves, Mitch Kupchak couldve had D Wade in his move that sent Shaq to Mia but he ends up with Caron Butler -who he later traded for Kwame Brown-,Brian Grant and Lamar Odom, thus breaking up a dynasty and making him look like the biggest dumbass in the league. but he salvaged his career by doing what....not by waiting to get under cap, but by making bold moves! Now did both GM's get a little lucky -and Ainge got some damn help from a former teamate!- but they did not just sit on their hands


    So what it boils down to is that The Knicks have 27 million to spend and at least 7 roster spots to fill. That is just under 4 million dollars per player, give David Lee 10 million and that is less than 3 million per player. Sign a coveted max FA and that leaves about 1 million dollars per player

    And I guess you could point to our core of players as reason not to be concerned, but without a reliable PG,true SG or Center I'd say there is plenty of cause for concern with Walsh's plan.

    So I present to you the NEW NEW YORK Plan for regaining Respectability! Also known as the "NO EXPIRING CONTRACTS LEFT BEHIND!"


    Warning:This plan does not include us getting Lebron or D Wade if you are one of those fans who are living in that world proceed with caution!

    Here's The Blueprint of the plan; 1. utilize most of our nearly 60 million dollars in expiring contracts instead of just letting them melt away this summer. 2. Get the players we would be after this summer at the trade deadline rather than July 1st, and then retain their Bird Rights to beat out offers on them!

    It is basic mathematics 60 million gets you more than 27 million!!!!!!!


    1st move: David Lee and Cuttino for Amare and 2010 1st rounder

    Logic: Phoenix saves money on both ends of this deal. They Cuttino's contract saves them about 3 million this season, and they can re-sign Lee for less than Amare this summer, thus saving them money then too! We get the future first rounder because Lee is actually outplaying Stoudamire for less this season. We make this deal to improve shot blocking, Amare is no Mutumbo but he has blocked more shots in 53 games this year than Lee has in the past two seasons combined! They are both undesized Centers, but Amare is better at it, plus even with Lee's improved offensive play, Amare is the better one on one player in the post.

    2nd Move: Jared Jefferies and Toney Douglas for Luke Ridinour

    Logic: Scott Skiles gets two defensive minded players who would fit in nice with his team. Jefferies would be a favorite, and I think he can better mold Douglas into an NBA PG than just about any coach outside of Larry Brown.... In short, We get a true PG!

    3rd move: That rumored 3 team deal with Wash and Hou

    Logic:Lone standing I do not get this deal, but If we make moves around this deal then I like it. Don't know all the players involved, but I suspect we would be giving up Hughes and Harrington and getting back T-Mac. T Mac is a legit SG and consider that we now have Ridnour then our backcourt looks pretty solid even if T-Mac is not at his superstar level.

    4th move: Nate Robinson for James Jones and 2011 or 2012 first rounder

    Logic: The Heat went after Rafer Alston to provide a spark off the bench and they have not got that from him and probably won't! they can make this move to get that spark and just buy out Alston's league minimum contract. Nate won't veto a deal to South Beach and we get a 3 pt shooting, defensive minded, role player who has 3 straight team options on his contract after this one! The first rounder is for the obvious disparity in talent.

    5th move: Darko Millic and a future first rounder for Leandro Barbosa

    Logic: Leandro's minutes are consistently down since Mike D left Phoenix and his production has dipped, Phoenix could use this move -accompanied by my first proposal- to save 14 million in cap next year which would put them about 7 million under and even more if Hill calls it quits, which basically allows for them to replace Barbosa with a JJ Reddick, Mike Miller, Travis Outlaw, or Matt Barners. We get another Dantoni favorite who is a more under control version of Nate.

    side note: I actually realize that this trade is a huge stretch

    Breakdown!!!!


    Ridnour/Duhon (this is where he should be)
    T-Mac/Barbosa/ Chandler
    Chandler/Gallo/Barbosa
    Gallo/Hill
    Amare/Hill/Curry

    This is the type of team Mike Dantoni needs! I give this team 45 wins next season -I said respectability-and should provide a ray of hope to our franchise. Curry's expiring deal plus Wilson and Gallo should make for some nice trade chips come next season's trade deadline.

    Ok, then in the off season we just retain all the players who we traded for who have expiring deals and we keep Duhon as a backup for one more season.

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    Superstar Giants89FLY's Avatar
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    Great post, Very Intriguing! Deals may be a little far fetched but crazier things have happened. Nice job

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Nice work. It's a stretch to say the least.

    But isn't Mobley's contract past it's trade expiration date? As far as I know it became void in late December.

    And what's the knicks combined salary if that was to be our team? It'd still be below the league minimum of active players.

    Might still need a few tweaks I reckon.

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    Member Starks_boy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by New New York
    Then I thought that we would had the MLE to use -thanks to an article written by Peter Vescey- that too is not the case - I now know that thanks to information provided by our very own LJ-
    I thought it was the case too. How come we've been able to spend our MLE all this years without cap room ? I don't get it.
    Do you have any link about that ?

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    Superstar johnstarky's Avatar
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    There is one problem here:Steve Kerr would never trade Amare or Barbosa to the Knicks and help out his old coach.

    I think the guy just laughs at Mike D'antoni's putrid 51-82 record with the Knicks and wishes the worst for him.

    Until D'antoni or Kerr lose their jobs, any good trades involving the Knicks and Suns are off.

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    Nice work. It's a stretch to say the least.

    But isn't Mobley's contract past it's trade expiration date? As far as I know it became void in late December.

    And what's the knicks combined salary if that was to be our team? It'd still be below the league minimum of active players.

    Might still need a few tweaks I reckon.
    From what I have read as long as a player has not officially retired then his contract can be traded, he is currently listed as "inactive" therefore it seems as if we can trade him. The deadline that you speak of -if I am not wrong, which is entirely possible" was a November ruling on if Mobley's injury was career ending, had it been ruled that then he wouldve been off the books for us this season [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    About the team salary..... I would imagine around 64 million or so.

    I would give Ridinour 3 years 21 million. 6.8 million next year (identical to what Jefferies wouldve made)

    T-Mac is still a risk, thus he gets two years 22 million with a team option on the second. 11 million next year

    Amare would get his 16 million per year

    Duhon gets a generous 1 year 2 million dollar deal to be a backup

    add Barbosa's 8 million and 4 million to James Jones -if we choose- and its around 65 million add a couple of league minimum types to fill out the roster and it is at 67 million, which would make us 16th in the league for team payroll. Seems about right for a middle of the pack type team.

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johnstarky
    There is one problem here:Steve Kerr would never trade Amare or Barbosa to the Knicks and help out his old coach.

    I think the guy just laughs at Mike D'antoni's putrid 51-82 record with the Knicks and wishes the worst for him.

    Until D'antoni or Kerr lose their jobs, any good trades involving the Knicks and Suns are off.
    You know I thought the same thing....but more than sticking it to Dantoni, Kerr needs to save money! A team owner doesnt care too much about personal grudges, plus getting Lee back and freeing up cap room to improve the team makes it worth it even if he still hates Mike D

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    Originally Posted by New New York
    I would give Ridinour 3 years 21 million. 6.8 million next year (identical to what Jefferies wouldve made)
    incorrect..if ugly gets traded is salary is bumped up 3m to 9.8

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    Superstar johnstarky's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by New New York
    You know I thought the same thing....but more than sticking it to Dantoni, Kerr needs to save money! A team owner doesnt care too much about personal grudges, plus getting Lee back and freeing up cap room to improve the team makes it worth it even if he still hates Mike D
    How would you feel if the Knicks pulled off these trades,went over the 2010 salary cap and Lebron signed with another team this summer?

    Not that this will likely happen but, how would you feel if you heard Lebron say that the Knicks were his number one option in the 2010 free agent market but couldn't sign with them because they were over the salary cap?

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Man...I've been saying this for months now. It's nice to see some of you coming around.

    Like New New York said, once you understand cap space, free agent signings, Bird Rights and the fact that the MLE and Bi-Annual exceptions must be renounced (i.e. they are not available to teams under the cap), you can then realize how faulty the 2010 plan is.

    Add to those facts that we have the worst roster in the NBA and only Jeffries, Curry, Douglas, Hill, Chandler and Gallo as the roster to attract free agents (no Lee because we can't afford his Bird Rights) and the 2010 plan seems almost impossible.

    Now, let's take a look at the players that we know are available NOW.

    Amare Stoudemire
    Caron Butler
    Tyrus Thomas
    Kirk Hinrich
    Kevin Martin
    Emeka Okafur
    Luke Ridnour

    All of these trades work, are reasonable and completely within our reach:

    Send Harrington to the Wiz for Caron Butler (we already know will work)
    Send Hughes to Chicago for Hinrich and Thomas (all Chi wants is cap space)
    Send Lee + Nate + Darko for Amare Stoudemire
    Send Duhon + 2010 2nd round pick for Ridnour

    Lineup for remainder of season:
    PG-Hinrich
    SG-Chandler
    SF-Butler
    PF-Tyrus Thomas
    C-Stoudemire

    w/ Ridnour, Gallo, Hill and Douglas off the bench.

    That is a very good defensive team that can run the floor. Easily makes the playoffs this year.

    Then with the expiring contracts of Curry and Jeffries other players can be had.

    Once you accept the fact that Lebron and Wade are not coming, this team looks pretty good. Can anyone build a better roster in 2010? What about 2011? I doubt it.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Feb 12, 2010 at 10:57.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    I like the whole idae in general but your 1st and 4th trades are unlikely.

    Phoenix is trading Amare and would be foolish to throw in a 1st round pick with it. Amare and David lee are all stars, if anything they would do it straight up at best. Any other scenerio would be Phoenix wanting Hill or Doulgas in the deal.

    Nat Robinson is in his last year...why would the heat trade a 1st round pick for someone they can get after this season? And who knows if they want Nate? No one gave him a contract last off season.

    Those two trades seem unlikely because teams are not giving us a 1st round pick.

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by johnstarky
    How would you feel if the Knicks pulled off these trades,went over the 2010 salary cap and Lebron signed with another team this summer?

    Not that this will likely happen but, how would you feel if you heard Lebron say that the Knicks were his number one option in the 2010 free agent market but couldn't sign with them because they were over the salary cap?

    simply put....a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush!


    A remote chance at signing James is not worth us blowing off potential deals.


    Fact: James is at least twice as good as any of the players I suggested that we trade for

    But another fact of the matter is that James can not do it all by himself! If we had a better core of players, then it would be worth it to put all our efforts into nabbing James.

    But....Wilson,Gallo,Hill,Jefferies,Douglas and Curry is not a desirable lineup for any FA who is serious about winning and not just out to get a big check!

    Even if Lebron has another MVP season and you play him at the point to supress that need, our team is at best a 5th seed in the East and that's giving a lot of credit to us. So why would Lebron bolt his home town team for that?


    So allow me to ask you a question good sir.....what if we do nab James and he tears an ACL, how would you feel about putting our all into one player?

    Fact remains if we got James we would be one injury away from being a 23 win team again. That's not smart team managment when the drop off is that major with the loss of just one player

    What we shouldve learned from The Sixers Final run back in 2000 is that one player can only carry a team so far! And AI had a much better core of players around him than what we have on our team after this season.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by New New York
    simply put....a bird in the hand is better than two in the bush!


    A remote chance at signing James is not worth us blowing off potential deals.


    Fact: James is at least twice as good as any of the players I suggested that we trade for

    But another fact of the matter is that James can not do it all by himself! If we had a better core of players, then it would be worth it to put all our efforts into nabbing James.

    But....Wilson,Gallo,Hill,Jefferies,Douglas and Curry is not a desirable lineup for any FA who is serious about winning and not just out to get a big check!

    Even if Lebron has another MVP season and you play him at the point to supress that need, our team is at best a 5th seed in the East and that's giving a lot of credit to us. So why would Lebron bolt his home town team for that?


    So allow me to ask you a question good sir.....what if we do nab James and he tears an ACL, how would you feel about putting our all into one player?

    Fact remains if we got James we would be one injury away from being a 23 win team again. That's not smart team managment when the drop off is that major with the loss of just one player

    What we shouldve learned from The Sixers Final run back in 2000 is that one player can only carry a team so far! And AI had a much better core of players around him than what we have on our team after this season.
    james would make Gallo and Chandler big time scorers with his passing ability.

    Douglas would get open shots that he usually makes...the only hole to fill is Center.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    james would make Gallo and Chandler big time scorers with his passing ability.

    Douglas would get open shots that he usually makes...the only hole to fill is Center.
    Yes, James would make those players better and get them open shots.

    But realistically, you have to ask yourself, why would Lebron come to that roster?

    Can someone give me one good reason why any of the big-time free agents would come to the worst roster in the NBA?

    Why would anyone want to sign to a roster of Curry, Jeffries, Douglas, Hill, Chandler and Gallo (plus a bunch of other scrubs to fill the roster with the remaining cap space)?

    Everyone just assumes Lebron, Lee and others will just sign here. Nobody actually asks the logical question of why?

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    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Yes, James would make those players better and get them open shots.

    But realistically, you have to ask yourself, why would Lebron come to that roster?

    Can someone give me one good reason why any of the big-time free agents would come to the worst roster in the NBA?

    Why would anyone want to sign to a roster of Curry, Jeffries, Douglas, Hill, Chandler and Gallo (plus a bunch of other scrubs to fill the roster with the remaining cap space)?

    Everyone just assumes Lebron, Lee and others will just sign here. Nobody actually asks the logical question of why?

    Agreed!

    However I think Lee would sign here simply because this has been the only organization he knows. But I cant see other FA's looking to come to NY

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