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Thread: Damn! So more bad news about the cap

  1. #1
    Quiet Storm New New York's Avatar
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    Default Damn! So more bad news about the cap

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    So per this article if we did indeed trade Jefferies and Hill we would get hit with a close to 4 million dollar penalty for having too few players on our roster! Meaning if the cap comes in at 54 million we have just 33 million as opposed to 36 and change to spend. That Hurts!!!

    LJ let us know if this is true!

    The good news is that it would only cost us 10.5 million to retain Lee's Bird rights, so if push comes to shove and Lee does not want to do the whole backloaded contract deal, we could retain him for 10.5 sign other players and then give Lee the salary he may want. This is not the prefeered rout to me, because it could essentially mean we paid 20+ million for David Lee, but it does look as if are chances of retaining him is much better. I do think that David wants to win in NY and could be flexiable, but if not we do have a good option


    Now the only thing is to get this Jefferies deal done!

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    Originally Posted by New New York
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    So per this article if we did indeed trade Jefferies and Hill we would get hit with a close to 4 million dollar penalty for having too few players on our roster! Meaning if the cap comes in at 54 million we have just 33 million as opposed to 36 and change to spend. That Hurts!!!

    LJ let us know if this is true!

    The good news is that it would only cost us 10.5 million to retain Lee's Bird rights, so if push comes to shove and Lee does not want to do the whole backloaded contract deal, we could retain him for 10.5 sign other players and then give Lee the salary he may want. This is not the prefeered rout to me, because it could essentially mean we paid 20+ million for David Lee, but it does look as if are chances of retaining him is much better. I do think that David wants to win in NY and could be flexiable, but if not we do have a good option


    Now the only thing is to get this Jefferies deal done!
    No need to ask LJ. Larry Coon wrote that article, you can take that to the bank. That 4M is the combined non-guaranteed amount of Dorseys and Cooks salaries that becomes a cap hold in case they are resigned. Very good article and it's exactly what Donnie is going to try to do, sign one max guy, couple of good second level guys and then give DLee more than his cap hold of 10M.

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    Member DANUTZ39's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by New New York
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]


    So per this article if we did indeed trade Jefferies and Hill we would get hit with a close to 4 million dollar penalty for having too few players on our roster! Meaning if the cap comes in at 54 million we have just 33 million as opposed to 36 and change to spend. That Hurts!!!

    LJ let us know if this is true!

    The good news is that it would only cost us 10.5 million to retain Lee's Bird rights, so if push comes to shove and Lee does not want to do the whole backloaded contract deal, we could retain him for 10.5 sign other players and then give Lee the salary he may want. This is not the prefeered rout to me, because it could essentially mean we paid 20+ million for David Lee, but it does look as if are chances of retaining him is much better. I do think that David wants to win in NY and could be flexiable, but if not we do have a good option


    Now the only thing is to get this Jefferies deal done!
    This is true and me, Oldtimer and LJ mentioned this before. First let me be clear as this is not a penalty.

    1 The league's minimum number of players a team must have is 12. Therefore if we only have 4 players under contract(counting against our cap) the league will assign an additional 8 cap holders at $475.000 each(minimum salary next year). That means 3.8 mill in addition to the 4 players we already have.

    2. Even if we don't trade Jeffries and Hill (and renounce al free agents) we will still have only 6 players under contract so an additional 6 cap holders(2.85mill) will be placed against our cap.

    3. Each cap holder is lifted with each new player a team sign. Let say a team sign a new player at 3 mill/year. The new player salary(3mill) will count against the cap but the team will get back thevalue of the cap hold (475k).

    Again this is not a penalty and is true for any team that don't have a roster of minimum 12 players. Those cap holds are lifted as the team signs new players.

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    Member DANUTZ39's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    No need to ask LJ. Larry Coon wrote that article, you can take that to the bank. That 4M is the combined non-guaranteed amount of Dorseys and Cooks salaries that becomes a cap hold in case they are resigned. Very good article and it's exactly what Donnie is going to try to do, sign one max guy, couple of good second level guys and then give DLee more than his cap hold of 10M.
    A non-guaranteed salary is just that, not guaranteed money and does not have any impact on the cap situation.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Yes this is true. I have to give credit where it's due. Oldtimer brought this to KOL about a month ago. At first, it didn't make sense at all but I understand it well now.

    There really is nothing to worry about here and nothing has changed. For all intents and purposes, we still have $36 mil in cap space. And we all knew we had only this amount to spend to fill out the roster to the 12 player minimum.

    The $4 mil is just 8 roster spots needed to fill the 12 minimum (we would only have 4 on the roster if Jeffries is traded) at the league minimum salary. These "phantom" salaries are essentially set up to ensure we don't spend all of our cap space on 2 players. This artificial $4 mil increase in team salary is reduced each time a player is added to the roster until the roster is at the 12 minimum.

    Nothing to really worry about because nothing is really changed. There is still $36 mil to fill 8 roster spots.

    Basically, if the cap comes in above $54 mil, we should be fine. This will still allow us to sign 2 max contracts without having to buy out Curry. Then Curry's expiring contract could be used to bring in more talent (e.g. Monta Ellis).

    Well, I hope that makes sense. It is a little confusing and I'm not sure if I explained it well enough.


    *Edit* Thanks Danutz. We must have been replying at the same time. Can always count on you to provide accurate info.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Feb 16, 2010 at 20:20.

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    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    i just want to sign one player loll, cause with all this talk going around im not too sure lebrons going anywhere neither is dwade so we should change up our game plan and maybe go for a JJ and sign players around him, fill up the team with players instead of getting 2 max and having to parade a bull**** cast around them

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    Originally Posted by DANUTZ39
    A non-guaranteed salary is just that, not guaranteed money and does not have any impact on the cap situation.
    Thanks for the clarification on the cap hold. Coincidentally, Dorsey and Cook make a combined 3,775,000 in salary so I thought the cap hold was for the potential signing of those two players. Now I know who the capologists are around here.

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    A question, how does the league calculate DLee's cap hold amount?

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    *Edit* Thanks Danutz. We must have been replying at the same time. Can always count on you to provide accurate info.
    No problem man I knew you gonna explain this(I just hit the replay button first..........LOL)

    That's the problem with those wrirtes. They write something that may be true but by not explaining the whole picture people can get easily mislead.

    Although I did not reply to the Jeffries trade kicker option story a lot a people think a team will have to pay 3 mill when they aquire him. The only true thing here is that he has a 3mill trade kicker option on his contract but what is not told is that a trade kicker option loses value as the contract reach maturity. At no time a trade kicker can be more than 15% of the ramaning value of the contract. Thus in Jeffries case his trade kicker option is only about 1.8mill. Still a lot of coin but not 3 mill. Also a player in this situation can waive a portion of the trade kicker(if he wants) in order to make the trade work.

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