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Thread: Mike D'antoni = Back to Back seasons with 50+ losses

  1. #61
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    For the record I am not claiming Dant is perfect or that he hasn't made mistakes. I am merely saying that our talent or lack there of plays a much bigger part than some want to believe. People put too much stock in a coach while ignoring the lackluster group we have on the floor. The NBA is dominated by superstars or powerful 1-2 punches that are surrounded by role players. We have role players surrounded by scrubs...

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    I pointed out how none of our previous 4 coaches had telent. You said you were a Knick fan so...

    I can conclude that you supported all of them, since they would be better w/ talent. That's not straws its deductive reasoning. My points are too well made and documented to start the whole politics and Obama thing- that's tangents.
    I had issues with each one of them but only Larry Brown and Isiah did I actively want fired.

    Larry Brown:
    I always liked Larry Brown but did not like him as our coach. He did not fit with the players we had and changed the lineup too often for anyone to get into a rhythm. If we were winning, I would careless but we didn't.

    Isiah:
    Brought in the "talent" and assembled the team so he was fully responsible. He had off court issues and was just bad.

    Dant:
    Came into a difficult situation along with Walsh and agreed to purge our team and clear cap for 2010. We are not supposed to be winning with this group. Oh and he has developed Lee, Chandler and Gallo along the way.

    In conclusion, not all coaches and situations are equal. One can dislike a coach and you are entitled to your opinion. I am not trying to convince you to LIKE Dantoni...I am putting his role into perspective. I don't think Dant is perfect and yes he made mistakes. That said, no coach would have done any better since 90% of our problems are because we lack a defensive center, lack a super star and lack a competent distributor. No amount of coaching can make Duhon good..no amount of coaching can make David Lee bigger and stronger and no amount of coaching can turn anyone of our players into a superstar.

  3. #63
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    AgreedDid the Knicks have a chance to draft Brook Lopez? Yes
    How many wins did Lopez earn the Nets with a far better supporting cast?

    Originally Posted by abcd
    "Over the summer, D'Antoni wasn't thrilled by the idea of the Knicks pursuing free agent Andre Miller and he had no interest in signing Jayson Williams and Jamaal Tinsley, two point guards that worked out for the club.
    What does Miller's contract look like? If the aforementioned guards worked out for us, there must be a reason why we did not pick them up. This has becomes obvious now, since D'Antoni, obviously does not have any difficulties benching Duhon if there is a proper pg around.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Also, D'Antoni favored Jordan Hill over Brandon Jennings in the draft."
    It has been said before, but I gladly volunteer to say it again: Picking Hill was the backup plan just in case Lee had found a team willing to sign him for 10 millions per annum and a long term contract.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Did D'Antoni pass up on Stephon Marbury for Chris Duhon? Yes
    Marbury scores 15 ppg on ca. 35 per cent shooting in the CBA, A league which is way below Euroleague level. He does not make any threes although the three point line is closer than in college basketball.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Did D'Antoni do anything to make the team better? No
    Well, I think our passing game has vastly improved over Isiah's, however, we just do not have the potential to close out games on a regular basis. Our team is in better shape than in Isiah's "era" which amounts to less injuries. And he gave Lee the space to become an Allstar.

    I am willing to give him time until he has got the players necessary for his style of playing basketball. However, they should add a few guys to the coaching staff, especially a defensive expert.

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    I was all about giving D'antoni a pass until I saw the score after the 3rd quarter tonight. 101-59??? Really??? I know you can't put to much into one game, but why would Lebron wanna play for the team that's on the wrong end of a score like that??? Two years in a row now this team plays one good month surrounded by several crappy ones. Can you imagine Steinbrenner putting up with this BS??? You just can't be this bad without looking at the coach.

    As stated above, it was D'antoni that drafted his godson over Lopez or any number of PG's availible. It was D'antoni who had no plan after Curry was off the board and passed on Brandon Jennings. Its D'antoni who doesn't believe in playing defense in the Eastern Conference of all places, which is just retarded. Can you imagine a team giving up on Avery Johnson like that??? I doubt it. D'antoni is making to much money to have these poor results on the court. I know this team doesn't have much talent, but they are all still supposed to be professionals. There is no excuse for a lack of effort. That goes back to coaching. D'antoni is laughing all the way to the bank. No one whose perfomance is this bad should have job security. NO ONE.

  5. #65
    Enlightened OGKnickfan's Avatar
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    D'Antoni is obviously a control-freak-jerk. His little rude comments, in the press, leveled against players, believe me, don't go unnoticed amongst 2010 free agents. His benching of certain players, coupled with his giving minutes to people like Duhon, along with his approach toward players' agents, e.g., Nate Robinson's agent, will ensure we get no one in 2012.

    And as ABCD stated, Brook Lopez was available. And Pat, Lopez's team's record has very little to do with him and a lot to do with the fact that the team has had a lot of injuries, is in the rebuilding phase and has a week lineup of a supporting cast.

    Bottom line is that Lopez has one of the highest efficiency stats out there, he averages a solid number of assists, shoots over 50 percent, averages 19 ppg, almost 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. At 7 feet, what he brings to the table is beautiful for the game.

    D'Antoni wanted Gallo, though: so now we have this bum on our team. He didn't want Andre Miller, great PG IMO, so now we're struggling at the PG position.

    And you tell me what max player, in his right mind, other than Stoudemire would want to come here. Please, folks, put down the Mike D'Antoni kool-aid, it belongs exclusively to Mike Breen.

  6. #66
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    Originally Posted by pat
    How many wins did Lopez earn the Nets with a far better supporting cast?



    What does Miller's contract look like? If the aforementioned guards worked out for us, there must be a reason why we did not pick them up. This has becomes obvious now, since D'Antoni, obviously does not have any difficulties benching Duhon if there is a proper pg around.


    It has been said before, but I gladly volunteer to say it again: Picking Hill was the backup plan just in case Lee had found a team willing to sign him for 10 millions per annum and a long term contract.


    Marbury scores 15 ppg on ca. 35 per cent shooting in the CBA, A league which is way below Euroleague level. He does not make any threes although the three point line is closer than in college basketball.


    Well, I think our passing game has vastly improved over Isiah's, however, we just do not have the potential to close out games on a regular basis. Our team is in better shape than in Isiah's "era" which amounts to less injuries. And he gave Lee the space to become an Allstar.

    I am willing to give him time until he has got the players necessary for his style of playing basketball. However, they should add a few guys to the coaching staff, especially a defensive expert.
    The argument about Lopez not being able to win on an injury depleted Net team is very weak.

    Devin Harris, Courtney Lee, Yi Jianlian, and Jarvis Hayes all had injuries, this season. All of them have had to play through injuries this season.

    Patrick Ewing won 23 games on his rookie season and 24 games on his sophomore season. He went on to make the NBA Finals twice and became a 50 greatest NBA player.

    Just because you play on a losing team doesn't mean you can't play basketball.

    Brook Lopez is proven, as far as talent. He proved himself in college, and now he's proving himself in the NBA. 19.1 points, 8.9 rebounds, and 1.9 blocks are about the same numbers Pau Gasol and Yao Ming had on their sophomore seasons.

    Don't believe me?
    Brook Lopez
    Sophomore season: 19.1 ppg, 8.9 rebounds, 1.9 blocks, 2.2 assists
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Pau Gasol
    Sophomore season: 19 ppg, 8.8 rebounds, 1.8 blocks, 2.7 assists
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Yao Ming
    Sophomore season: 19.7 ppg, 9.7 rebounds, 1.7 blocks, 1 assist

    Andre Miller makes 6.7 million/yr
    Chris Duhon makes 6 million/yr
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Hmmm, let me see...If I have the option of signing a proven point guard like Miller for 6.7 million or a complete scrub like Duhomo, who should I pick? Miller's contract is not big at all. Everybody in the NBA is rich, so everybody in the NBA is overpaid, when you compare them to the average man. We're not talking about the average man. We're talking about athletes playing professional basketball.
    Mike D'Anphony gets an F for wanting Duhon ahead of Miller.

    Marbury is playing very well in China, and his numbers with the Knicks are WAY better than Duhon's numbers ever were.

    Marbury is averaging 21.7 points on 51% fg, 10 assists, 2.9 steals, and 6.1 rebounds.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

    Nate Robinson's numbers are WAY better than Duhon's numbers ever were.

    Andre Miller's numbers are WAY better than Duhon's numbers ever were.

    Seriously, Pat, you're defending D'Antoni? I can see if it was D'Antoni's first year with the team, or if he made some good decisions. But D'Antoni just sucks.

    Name something D'Antoni has done for the Knicks besides lose and use nepotism and favoritism?
    D'Antoni's record with the Knicks: 52-89(.368)
    Last edited by abcd; Mar 02, 2010 at 00:02.

  7. #67
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by abcd
    The argument about Lopez not being able to win on an injury depleted Net team is very weak.
    [...] ]Patrick Ewing won 23 games on his rookie season and 24 games on his sophomore season. He went on to make the NBA Finals twice and became a 50 greatest NBA player.
    Which is about the same total of wins we are most likely to get at the end of this season. Why does this logic not apply to a coach?
    Originally Posted by abcd
    Andre Miller makes 6.7 million/yr
    Chris Duhon makes 6 million/yr
    Would Miller have accepted a one-year deal?
    Originally Posted by abcd
    Marbury is playing very well in China, and his numbers with the Knicks are WAY better than Duhon's numbers ever were.

    Marbury is averaging 21.7 points on 51% fg, 10 assists, 2.9 steals, and 6.1 rebounds.
    Thanks for providing everybody with the stats. Now, I understand you are still fond of Marbury, but he is playing in China. The leagues leading scorer is Smush Parker. Marbury shoots 35 per cent from a three point line which makes shooting threes essentially a mid-range jump shot.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Nate Robinson's numbers are WAY better than Duhon's numbers ever were.
    Agreed. But sadly N8 has never been and will never be a pointguard.

    Originally Posted by abcd
    Seriously, Pat, you're defending D'Antoni? I can see if it was D'Antoni's first year with the team, or if he made some good decisions. But D'Antoni just sucks.
    Better passing game, improved fitness, willlingness to work with a core of scrubs, even though this might mess up his coaching record just to give us a a shot this summer, giving Lee room to grow.

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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    D'Antoni is obviously a control-freak-jerk. His little rude comments, in the press, leveled against players, believe me, don't go unnoticed amongst 2010 free agents. His benching of certain players, coupled with his giving minutes to people like Duhon, along with his approach toward players' agents, e.g., Nate Robinson's agent, will ensure we get no one in 2012.

    And as ABCD stated, Brook Lopez was available. And Pat, Lopez's team's record has very little to do with him and a lot to do with the fact that the team has had a lot of injuries, is in the rebuilding phase and has a week lineup of a supporting cast.

    Bottom line is that Lopez has one of the highest efficiency stats out there, he averages a solid number of assists, shoots over 50 percent, averages 19 ppg, almost 10 rebounds and 2 blocks. At 7 feet, what he brings to the table is beautiful for the game.

    D'Antoni wanted Gallo, though: so now we have this bum on our team. He didn't want Andre Miller, great PG IMO, so now we're struggling at the PG position.

    And you tell me what max player, in his right mind, other than Stoudemire would want to come here. Please, folks, put down the Mike D'Antoni kool-aid, it belongs exclusively to Mike Breen.
    Well said, perfectly put and the conclusion with Mike Breen was the topper.
    Was Dantoni the selection of Walsh? or was this another Larry Brown hiring above Isiah's head?
    If Walsh had the chance to do this over do u think he would hire Dantoni?

    People keep forgetting we had two double-double PF in Lee & Zach that was ready and healthy to play each game. Both players just wanted Isiah out of the picture.
    Our two centers Curry & James were to busy each game playing checkers using Hamburgers as pieces (King-me for a Big-Mac).

    Brook Lopez athletic performance had put him as OKC or Memphis 4th or 5th pick along with Love. It look like alot of draft scouts got it twisted between Rubin & Brook Lopez.

    If the Knicks were not going to trade Crawful and the 6th pick for SG-Mayo, then the only two players deserving the 6th pick inwhich we needed were SG-Gordon and C-Brook Lopez.

  9. #69
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    Pat....do u know anything about Dantoni's NBA coaching career other than standing on the side-line in Phoenix watching Captain Shaun Matrix Marion for 42 minutes (of every game Dantoni coached in Phoenix) running the "Jason Kidd & Matrix" show throughout his career in Phoenix?.
    No Phoenix Player average more or close to Marion's 42 mpg each season in Phoenix.

    u never checked or listen to NBA announcers mention the most minutes played in a season having Shaun Marion at the top-3 of the list each season Dantoni coached the Phoenix Suns???
    The Phoenix Suns became Marion's Team when Dantoni was in Denver.
    u dont recall Marion & Marbury in the playoffs earning that big expensive contract Phoenix gave them?
    Marion wanted to run run run for 40 minutes a game.
    And Marbury was a halfcourt offensive guard that would get dead tired in the 4th quarter if he run all game. Which was the reason the Nets traded him.

    u also dont remember Denver FIRING Dantoni after a half a season of coaching, which made Dantoni go back to Italy for a year searching for a job.
    Then came back to the NBA as assistant coach in Phoenix, and within one year cause so much havoc between players and headcoach in Phoenix which got the Headcoach Fired, and made him interim coach.

    Did Dantoni's most minute played player in Phoenix,
    Shaun Marion try to unite back with Dantoni during his FA offseason, or through trade???

  10. #70
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    Originally Posted by pat
    Which is about the same total of wins we are most likely to get at the end of this season. Why does this logic not apply to a coach?

    Would Miller have accepted a one-year deal?


    Thanks for providing everybody with the stats. Now, I understand you are still fond of Marbury, but he is playing in China. The leagues leading scorer is Smush Parker. Marbury shoots 35 per cent from a three point line which makes shooting threes essentially a mid-range jump shot.



    Agreed. But sadly N8 has never been and will never be a pointguard.



    Better passing game, improved fitness, willlingness to work with a core of scrubs, even though this might mess up his coaching record just to give us a a shot this summer, giving Lee room to grow.

    Dude, don't backpedal so much. You said Miller had a huge contract, now you're changing to "Miller wouldn't accept a one year deal." First of all, Duhon had a two year deal. Secondly, we need a point guard! And if you want to have a decent team, you spend some of your cap money on more than just two top guys.

    Secondly, how does your bashing of Lopez turn into giving D'Antoni slack on his behavior: nepotism, disrespecting players, on the court and in the press, etc?

    And you were wrong about Marbury. So... instead of leaving it alone, you try to find a way to justify your poor research and analysis.

    As for fitness and passing, Quentin Richardson was fat on Phoenix and fat on the Knicks, both times while under D'Antoni. Curry lost weight on his own, during the offseason. Duhon has been our point guard, i.e., our main distributor. Are you reviewing the accomplishments of the same person that I am?

  11. #71
    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    You said Miller had a huge contract.
    Where?

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    Secondly, how does your bashing of Lopez turn into giving D'Antoni slack on his behavior: nepotism, disrespecting players, on the court and in the press, etc?
    Where did I bash him. The only thing I did was pointing out that you cannot bash D'Antoni for our losses and still be high on a centre which --inarguably -- has great numbers, which just do not transfer into more wins although he is surrounded by at least half decent players, which is more than you can say our coaching stuff has to work with.
    Nowhere did I talk about "nepotism" and "disrespecting players".

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    And you were wrong about Marbury. So... instead of leaving it alone, you try to find a way to justify your poor research and analysis.
    This makes Marbury the highest profile foreign basketball player to ever play in the CBA,[...]. Marbury takes the title of most renown basketball player to ever play professionally in China from Bonzi Wells – who [...] left the club after just 2 months despite leading the league in scoring with a ridiculous 46 points per game average.
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    Sounds like grown-ups playing against twelve-year-olds around the corner to me.

    The main matchup of the evening was between Stephon Marbury and former Lakers starting guard Smush Parker. Parker had 13 points, 6 assists and 7 rebounds while Marbury more than held his own with a 15 point, 15 assist and 4 rebound effort. Marbury still hasn’t managed to find his shot (which at this point could be lost forever) and was 4-18 shooting overall. His 3 point shooting has been particularly shaky (must be those close 3 point lines) with a 1-7 showing that has brought his CBA 3pt shooting % to a measly 8%.
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    Must be Smush Parker's incredibly strong defense. Think about Duhon whatever you want, but trying to sell Marbury as the answer to our prayers for a point guard is ... You get the idea.

    Originally Posted by OGKnickfan
    As for fitness and passing, Quentin Richardson was fat on Phoenix and fat on the Knicks, both times while under D'Antoni. Curry lost weight on his own, during the offseason. Duhon has been our point guard, i.e., our main distributor. Are you reviewing the accomplishments of the same person that I am?
    Quentin Richardson is not on the team any longer and I am not talking about Curry, who, by no means, can be seen as an actual part of the team. This was a general observation that this year we did not face many injuries so far, which is remarkable, especially if you take into account D'Antoni's questionably small rotation.
    That's all. No need to get overly emotional. I am more than happy to agree to disagree with. But it must be possible to express a different opinion. Otherwise a message board is a bit pointless actually, isn't it?

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    props to Red Vines for posting this on Real GM Knicks:
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    by [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] on Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:18 am
    On the chapter on teamwork and defense he writes:
    "If the Phoenix Suns had won the NBA championship last year, it would have been horrible for the game. No one would say defense wins anymore. The purists and defense-oriented guys like myself would've died a little death. Every team would've started trying to emulate the Suns by running up and down the court. The Suns almost invited their opponents to score so that they could take the ball out of bounds and start running.

    Phoenix's problem was that you can't win a championship by only playing offense. They can't stop anybody on "D." They play matador defense. That's why they traded for Kurt Thomas, a good defensive player, in the off-season last year, and signed Boris Diaw and Raja Bell. It helped, but it wasn't enough. If they had somehow won the championship in 2006, other team would've adopted their undisciplined, run-up-and-down style and the sweet nuances of the half-court game would deteriorate further.

    Defense and teamwork--to me that's the game, that's how you win. That's how I played coming up and I wouldn't change anything. It's still the way to play. I'm old-school. I won't change. I was a defensive player and I shared the ball on offense and hit the open man. I believe in teamwork.

    You have to play as a team and you have to work hard on defense."
    word. F*ck No-D'amntoni!

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