Mike D'antoni = Back to Back seasons with 50+ losses

keyser soze

Benchwarmer
I've seen coaches do better with a lot less talent.Like I said before, if the reason behind D'antoni being hired was to make the Knicks appealing to superstar free agents then that is a dumb reason to hire a coach.The Knicks have basketball games to win and fans to please, they shouldn't be wasting their time basing all of their moves on a pipe dream that might not come true.And to compare Mike D'antoni (when he couldn't win a championship while he was in Phoenix) to coaches that won championships with superstar players seems a bit absurd.

Please name some examples with regards to the bolded proclamation.

Also, how many games would you expect a good coach to win with this current group of players???????? The Knicks have a record and I honestly think that is a very fair reflection of the current talent on their roster. I really don't understand all of the hate for D'antoni on this message board.
 

pakopako

Benchwarmer
But not born that way

This thread is retarted

Eh, most eventually break down, but at least I learned a few things.
(For example, Darko still equals cash-money... in this case, actual cash-money.)

And that the Knicks won't be fixed until 2012 when they might actually have two draft picks and no Curry. (How the heck did a trade in 2004 affect the 2010 draft?!)
 

knicksin60

Starter
Do you honestly think that with a different coach that this team would be a 40 win team? Seriously? Our roster is worse then the NETS! Our PG situation is the worst I think I've ever seen on any team ever. We have a squad of YOUNG guys with little to know playoff experience or embedded culture of winning. Our best player doesn't know how to play D and is playing out of position.

You think that Pops in San An would be able to take this team to the promised land? If you took Parker, Ginnobli and Duncan off of that team they are STILL better then our current Knicks. I know New Yorkers are impatient and want results but NO ONE would win with this squad. It is impossible.


You can polish a turd as much as you like, but in the end it's still a turd. Sure maybe the coach has been hard on some guys and been trying to give major minutes to Chandler and Gallo, but that's part of the vision for the FUTURE of the team. This year was a throw away season. Everyone knew it, Walsh even told you so. The only people that thought they could win with this team were a) Al harrington and b) D'antoni. And that's only because D'antoni is such a positive guy, trying to uplift the spirits of the guys stuck there and al harrington needed to focus on something or would end up going crazy.

Anyone that thinks our pre-trade deadline roster was a 40 win team is out of their friggin mind.

Are you implying that Mike D'antoni is as good a coach as Gregg Popovich? Did you not watch the playoffs the last few years? Did you not see how Popovich out coached D'antoni in every playoff series in which they faced eachother? I'm not saying that coach Popovich would make this Knick team a playoff team but there is no way the Knicks would be 15 games under five hundred if he were coaching them.

You make the Knicks out to be worse than the '73 Sixers and you completely take the responsibility off of the coach.Tell me why the Knicks were playing good basketball in December if their roster is so horrible? As short handed as this team is they are a better team than what they're showing you right now.They just don't have the coach that could come up with the right strategies for them.

Mike D'antoni specifically said that he was going to make the Knicks competitve, during his first press conference.He never said that he was going to wait 2 years in order to do it.There shouldn't be any excuses for why his Knicks played the worst basketball during their easiest stretch of the season.If it was going to take Mike D'antoni 2 years to be the hall of fame coach that he is then Walsh should have hired somebody else to throw away these 2 seasons.These games shouldn't be taken as exhibition games in hope of finally landing the big prize at the end of the tunnel.Mike D'antoni's job is to find ways to improve the way that this team plays.I'm tired of Knick fans defending D'antoni based on what he did in Phoenix.Some of these fans act like D'antoni won 5 championships with the Suns and that one major roster improvement will have him go from looking like Roy Rubin to looking like Red Auerbach.The truth is that D'antoni never has won a championship with a good team and has had two seasons to make the Knicks competitive, but hasn't done it.I am never sold on a coach until that coach can prove that he is a winner.So far, Mike D'antoni hasn't proven that.
 

OGKnickfan

Enlightened
The bottom line to this thread is that this guy, Mr. Pringles, is not performing well, especially when one considers all the money spent on him and his assistants, which I believe amounts to about 7 million dollars a year. Instead of spending all of this money, we could have, much more easily, and at a lesser cost, allowed H-Wills to assume head coaching duties, which would have allowed us to head straight to the lottery, year after year, as we are currently set to do.

And as for the D'Antonisexuals, who feel that players are also D'Antonisexuals, enamored by D'antoni, so much so that they'll sacrifice everything to come to NY, how do you think that the instability, constant trades and vindictive benchings will play out in their consideration of the Knicks as a home? Do you think players don't talk about what the Knicks are like to play for?

And Gallinari would have been somewhere else, probably NJ, with his Chinese twin Yi, if we had signed a coach like Patrick Ewing, who knows the significance of a competent center. We would have had a winning record for the past two years, with a lineup of Steph, Crawford, an up-and-coming Chandler, Zach/Lee, Lopez, Ewing, Jr. off the bench and some other good prospects as our subs. Our players were decent, we just needed interior defense to have a balanced team: scoring and defense. We haven't had that since Ewing. Period.

P.S. Did you know Quentin Richardson credited having slimmed down to Patrick Ewing calling him fat? Significance: Q was fat, throughout his time with D'Antoni. Where was D'Antoni then??? On a cylinder of stacked potato chips, perhaps?
 

Paul1355

All Star
He's a joke....

I just dont understand his love fest with veterans playing over rookies when we all know he clearly wasted Douglas and Hill when they could have played better than Duhon and Jeffries MANY times.

Im happy that Douglas and Hill are finally getting some playing time.

We have to trade Jeffries...THIS SUCKS!!
 

p0nder

Starter
Are you implying that Mike D'antoni is as good a coach as Gregg Popovich? Did you not watch the playoffs the last few years? Did you not see how Popovich out coached D'antoni in every playoff series in which they faced eachother? I'm not saying that coach Popovich would make this Knick team a playoff team but there is no way the Knicks would be 15 games under five hundred if he were coaching them.

You make the Knicks out to be worse than the '73 Sixers and you completely take the responsibility off of the coach.Tell me why the Knicks were playing good basketball in December if their roster is so horrible? As short handed as this team is they are a better team than what they're showing you right now.They just don't have the coach that could come up with the right strategies for them.

Mike D'antoni specifically said that he was going to make the Knicks competitve, during his first press conference.He never said that he was going to wait 2 years in order to do it.There shouldn't be any excuses for why his Knicks played the worst basketball during their easiest stretch of the season.If it was going to take Mike D'antoni 2 years to be the hall of fame coach that he is then Walsh should have hired somebody else to throw away these 2 seasons.These games shouldn't be taken as exhibition games in hope of finally landing the big prize at the end of the tunnel.Mike D'antoni's job is to find ways to improve the way that this team plays.I'm tired of Knick fans defending D'antoni based on what he did in Phoenix.Some of these fans act like D'antoni won 5 championships with the Suns and that one major roster improvement will have him go from looking like Roy Rubin to looking like Red Auerbach.The truth is that D'antoni never has won a championship with a good team and has had two seasons to make the Knicks competitive, but hasn't done it.I am never sold on a coach until that coach can prove that he is a winner.So far, Mike D'antoni hasn't proven that.

I am not implying anything. I just used Pop's as a coach that I respect and think of as a "great" coach. Even he could not bring the knicks a playoff run and good showing with this squad.

The knicks played good ball because they were on the same page and felt they had a chance at making the playoffs. As we fall further and further away, as players realize that without some talented ball handling reinforcement we're not making the playoffs, the worse they play.

Especially as the trade deadline came up, players pretty much mailed it in. Our showings vs. the Kings and bulls were terrible. And it wasn't the coach out there playing these games, making turnovers, not boxing out, etc. you can't tell me that this is a playoff bound team as it stands.

We're terrible. :barf:

Sure D'antoni hasn't been fantastic, but what did you really expect him to do with this team? a team that has even less talent then last year? Again, if you think this team is a 40 win caliber team you're off your rocker.

I really hope some more trades come through and really shake this team up.
 

p0nder

Starter
P.S. Did you know Quentin Richardson credited having slimmed down to Patrick Ewing calling him fat? Significance: Q was fat, throughout his time with D'Antoni. Where was D'Antoni then??? On a cylinder of stacked potato chips, perhaps?

That's pretty funny man. patrick Ewing is well respected for sure. The guy is just imposing no matter what. If he told me to lose 50 lbs i'd probably cut off my leg.
 

bigyi21

Rookie
Dantoni is a joke.
He does not know how to run a half court set and has the worst plays out of a time out..
He has only one style of coaching and thats a run and gun offense. He doesnt know how to coach defense.
These are reasons he can never win a championship and will never be able to win in NY..
He had Nash for 2 amazing years and ran a great offense. Other than that he has accomplished nothing.
 

th3realicon

Rotation player
When people judge Mike based on the record i feel like stabbing myself with a rusty knife. Didn't we do much worse with a HOF coach in Larry Brown because we had basically the same worthless bunch? Brawn had actually a much better roster than D'antoni has and he is still able to keep them in the game.

We knew all along that these 2 years were going to be difficult. Mike said it tonite too in his show but he said that we knew that all along, he also mentioned that it is extremely hard on him to swallow the type of performance the team has been showing but how much can he do with those bums?

Criticizing D'antoni is plain dumb and stupid. Give him a decent team and than sing the obituaries if he is no good.
 

bigyi21

Rookie
When people judge Mike based on the record i feel like stabbing myself with a rusty knife. Didn't we do much worse with a HOF coach in Larry Brown because we had basically the same worthless bunch? Brawn had actually a much better roster than D'antoni has and he is still able to keep them in the game.

We knew all along that these 2 years were going to be difficult. Mike said it tonite too in his show but he said that we knew that all along, he also mentioned that it is extremely hard on him to swallow the type of performance the team has been showing but how much can he do with those bums?

Criticizing D'antoni is plain dumb and stupid. Give him a decent team and than sing the obituaries if he is no good.


First of all Larry Brown never really got a fair chance in NY. Also he was stuck with Isaiah and his dumb moves..
I never liked the hiring of Dantoni in the first place. He is a one sided coach and his method is not what wins big games in the nba..
His system you almost certainly need a point guard like Jkidd or Nash or even a CP3 or else it wont work.. With the players we will be getting in the summer his system will not work because guys like Cbosh and Lebron its not all about run and gun.
Mark my words Dantoni will never give us a chance here..
Just think about all the successful coaches in NY. Its all about defense and half court sets which are 2 things Dantoni cannot handle
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
First of all Larry Brown never really got a fair chance in NY. Also he was stuck with Isaiah and his dumb moves..
I never liked the hiring of Dantoni in the first place. He is a one sided coach and his method is not what wins big games in the nba..
His system you almost certainly need a point guard like Jkidd or Nash or even a CP3 or else it wont work.. With the players we will be getting in the summer his system will not work because guys like Cbosh and Lebron its not all about run and gun.
Mark my words Dantoni will never give us a chance here..
Just think about all the successful coaches in NY. Its all about defense and half court sets which are 2 things Dantoni cannot handle


I feel the same way as you to a point. But I feel that firing him is not the right time now. If he's bad with players like Lebron, he'll be gone with the quickness and I would have no problem.

But for right now lets keep the guy.

I see it like this........Lebron is gonna visit us this summer. He's not b.s. around with Mike and Walsh. He's gonna say "Mike I played with you in 2008 and you're great. But I watch the Suns and the Knicks play and I dont see the defensive intensity from your teams thats need. You better do what the celtics did and get a defensive guru as an assistant coach before we talk again. Mike Brown is a Popovich guy and Popovich has been rapin your teams for years. So get it done and I'm here."

Thats how its gonna down. Then when Lebron leaves, Walsh will look at Mike and say "Don't f*** this up for me."

Boom.
 

knicksin60

Starter
When people judge Mike based on the record i feel like stabbing myself with a rusty knife. Didn't we do much worse with a HOF coach in Larry Brown because we had basically the same worthless bunch? Brawn had actually a much better roster than D'antoni has and he is still able to keep them in the game.

We knew all along that these 2 years were going to be difficult. Mike said it tonite too in his show but he said that we knew that all along, he also mentioned that it is extremely hard on him to swallow the type of performance the team has been showing but how much can he do with those bums?

Criticizing D'antoni is plain dumb and stupid. Give him a decent team and than sing the obituaries if he is no good.

So fans should drink the D'antoni Kool-aid and not be allowed to express an opinion that isn't pro D'antoni?

When you look at Larry Brown's career coaching stats you will see that it usually takes him more than one season for a team to improve under him.

In his first season coaching the Nets he won 44 games, in his second year with them he won 47 games.

In his first season coaching the Spurs he won a pathetic 21 games with, in his second season with them he won 56 games.

In his first season with the Pacers he won 47 games, in his second season with them he won 52 games.

In his first season with the Sixers he finished 20 games below five hundred and in his second season with them he finished six games above five hundred.

In his first season with the Bobcats he won 35 games, so far this season the Bobcats have won 27 games and have a good chance of making the playoffs.

In is first seasons coaching NBA teams he has a winning percentage of .486, in his second seasons he has a winning percentage of .594.

In his second season with the Knicks, Mike D'antoni is on pace to lose more games than he did in his first season with the Knicks.

Had Larry Brown been given another season with the Knicks, they would have improved.

This is why it is pretty meaningless to use Larry Brown's one season with the Knicks as an excuse to dismiss the 100 games that D'antoni will be losing with the Knicks.

Anybody who says no other NBA coach could coach the Knicks to a better record is basically implying that Mike D'antoni is just as good as the best coach in the NBA.
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
Larry Brown had already won a championship and had a resume of taking a number of mediocre teams to the playoffs, before he came to the Knicks.And the reason why he was fired by Isiah Thomas was because of his fall out with Stephon Marbury.Mike D'antoni on the other hand, has never proven that he could coach a group of undertalented players to mediocrity and has never proven that he could get a playoff team passed the conference finals.Comparing Larry Brown's situation to D'antoni's situation with the Knicks is comparing apples to oranges.

So by saying that Mike D'antoni was the best coach available at the time, are you implying that he is better than Avery Johnson, Scott Skiles and Jeff Van Gundy? D'antoni might have seemed like a good coach 2 years ago but he wasn't the best coach available.When Walsh went out and lured D'antoni into coming to the Knicks he knew that D'antoni's relationship with players on the U.S. Olympic team could play a major role in attracting free agents in 2010.I don't think it was because D'antoni was this great coach who was going to eventually transform the Knicks into the '96 Bulls.

When D'antoni made his debut for the Knicks, didn't he say that he was going to bring back competitive basketball to MSG? Was he just saying those things because his large pay check required him to fill Knick fans with false hope? Or did he actually believe that he was going to make the Knicks a better team? So far, he's been Knick coach for almost 2 years and the Knicks still haven't learned how to play defense and are regressing as the clock moves forward.

You don't have to be a great head coach to get a group of undertalented players to compete every night.Look at Rick Adelman, he isn't a great coach but he manages to get the best out of his Houston Rockets team in a conference that is a lot tougher than the one that the Knicks play in.Mike Fratello, when he coached in the NBA was far from a great coach but he took mediocre Cavalier teams to the playoffs every year.And he was doing this during a period in which players like Michael Jordan, Patrick Ewing and Karl Malone were dominating the league.Don't tell me that the reason why D'antoni is about to lose 50 games, once again for the Knicks, is because the Knicks are completely uncoachable.If that is the only reason why the Knicks are so bad then they shouldn't even be competing in the NBA.The fact that they have players who are talented enough to play in the NBA should be enough for a good coach not to lose 50 games with them every year.You're telling me that a man who can coach an Olympic team to a gold medal can't coach a group of NBA players to win a mere 40 games in a weak division because his players aren't good enough to play for him? Something has to be wrong with this picture.

Even if the Knicks acquired McGrady,Thomas or House it won't make much of a difference for them.Mike D'antoni has proven that if you're not his favorite player you aren't going to be used to your full potential and could be in danger of being put on the inactive roster.I know a coach is suppose to set certain standards for his team, but how have the Knicks benefited from D'antoni benching Larry Hughes? When he was in the lineup, the Knicks were playing defense and looked like they were going to be serious contenders for the last playoff spot in the East.But then the inevitable took place: Mike D'antoni decided to go with his pride rather than his common sense and the Knicks suffered as a result of it.

I don't think Mike D'antoni is a bad person.He seems like a guy with a wonderful personality, but when he doesn't do his job correctly, he will be criticized for it.

I remember those Cavs, those guys were a pretty good team. The players defensive orientated they never had an answer for the other superstar players. When Jordan would hit a big shot with 20 seconds left to go in a game the Cavs had nobody to create their own shot.

First off Van Gundy is never coming back unless Walsh convinces Dolan other wise. Larry Brown got fired cuz he wanted that team gutted and Isiah felt insulted and Dolan for some reason was so loyal to him that he fired Larry. Larry was right. Very bad team. Just list the players Larry had. You just wanna throw up.

Think about it and this is in the literal sense I'm speaking. We actually took on every reject in this league. Every player we signed was about proving themselves that their one of the best players in the league. Isiah felt that since he turned around Jermaine O'neal's career, that he could do it with any reject. The players on those teams never shared the ball. Always one on one type plays.

Now with these players and Mike's offense, this team does share the ball. They just horrible defensively.


I always believed that 70 to 80% of the coaches in this league are very good. About small group of that number are considered great. Mike has not proven himself to be a great coach. He is being exposed a bit because the Knicks cant execute out of timeout plays. Thats on the coach alone. But during the games, Its all about the players. And Duhon is hurting us so.

And any game thats close we have no go to guy. Lee is great but he's not built for that.

Rick Adelman is a great coach, he's underatted. Those Kings teams almost took down the that Laker dynasty. If he had a healthy Mcgrady on that Kings team. Championships.

You need players. Oh and we need a shot blocker. A legitimate center that can stablize this defense. Its very hard to guard anybody in this league. But if you got some height back there, players will feel more comfortable about defending tighter.

Players first, then the coaches. You dont expect Phil Jackson to get to the playoffs with the Wizards do you?
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
So fans should drink the D'antoni Kool-aid and not be allowed to express an opinion that isn't pro D'antoni?

When you look at Larry Brown's career coaching stats you will see that it usually takes him more than one season for a team to improve under him.

In his first season coaching the Nets he won 44 games, in his second year with them he won 47 games.

In his first season coaching the Spurs he won a pathetic 21 games with, in his second season with them he won 56 games.

In his first season with the Pacers he won 47 games, in his second season with them he won 52 games.

In his first season with the Sixers he finished 20 games below five hundred and in his second season with them he finished six games above five hundred.

In his first season with the Bobcats he won 35 games, so far this season the Bobcats have won 27 games and have a good chance of making the playoffs.

In is first seasons coaching NBA teams he has a winning percentage of .486, in his second seasons he has a winning percentage of .594.

In his second season with the Knicks, Mike D'antoni is on pace to lose more games than he did in his first season with the Knicks.

Had Larry Brown been given another season with the Knicks, they would have improved.

This is why it is pretty meaningless to use Larry Brown's one season with the Knicks as an excuse to dismiss the 100 games that D'antoni will be losing with the Knicks.

Anybody who says no other NBA coach could coach the Knicks to a better record is basically implying that Mike D'antoni is just as good as the best coach in the NBA.

NOT TRUE. Larry Brown would never improve the same team he inherited. He would gut those teams and get his type of players. Veterans. Larry Brown contradicts himself. He says he loves to teach but would get rid or never play the young guys. He was fired because Isiah was insulted when Larry wanted all the players isiah brought in out. So Dolan canned him. Look at the Bobcats now, they are not the same team before he got there. So that improvement thing is hallow.

Remember Larry Brown won bronze with Olympic team. That team was trash. With Marbury, Iverson, Richard Jefferson, and Odom. He never played Lebron and Melo because they were too young. He only trust vets. And he lost. That team was weak.

So what happens we reload with Hall of Famers and we barely get the gold. Well earned but no domination. You need players. Especially nowadays. The Lakers are stacked but they are not blowing any teams away. The NBA is a very good league. The worst teams in this league are good, they just get exposed with teams with better players.

Now you need coaching to take you to a next level. But when you're losing about 50 games a year its not coaching. Coaches get fired every year and the teams never improves the next year.
For god sakes look at the Bucks, they had so many coaches, and still sucked for all those years. This year still a losing record but they got better players through the draft.
 

knicksin60

Starter
You need players. Oh and we need a shot blocker. A legitimate center that can stablize this defense. Its very hard to guard anybody in this league. But if you got some height back there, players will feel more comfortable about defending tighter.

Players first, then the coaches. You dont expect Phil Jackson to get to the playoffs with the Wizards do you?

For some reason, I am not convinced that even with a great team, D'antoni would win a championship.He had multiple chances in Phoenix to take a good Suns teams to the promised land but failed at it.I get tired of hearing how the Suns would have eliminated the Spurs a few years ago had Shawn Marion not been suspended in that playoff brawl.There was no way the Suns would have beaten the Spurs in a seven game series with D'antoni as their head coach.

I never had a problem with the D'antoni hiring at the beginning, but after nearly 2 seasons of this team not improving under him I am starting to have my doubts about his coaching ability.

I wouldn't know if Phil Jackson could take a team like the Wizards to the playoffs because I've never seen him coach a bad team.I know that he is capable of winning championships with good teams because he has done it in the past.I also know that Mike D'antoni cannot coach an already bad team to be a sub five hundred team and hasn't been able to coach a good team to the NBA finals.
 

abcd

KnicksonLIN.com
Mike D'Antoni is very overrated and very overpaid. And it is partially his fault why the team has the worst roster in the NBA. He was the one who supported the signing and starting of Chris Duhon, and he is the one who supported the drafting of Danilo Gallinari over Brook Lopez. He is also the one who caused Nate Robinson to be traded for crumbs. Unless the Knicks manage to sign BOTH Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudamire, he needs to be fired. I would rather have a defensive minded coach working with James and Bosh than D'Antoni. Not that I think the Knicks will get James and Bosh, but if it did happen, they should fire D'Antoni and replace him with a defensive coach.
 

Blumatic

Rotation player
For some reason, I am not convinced that even with a great team, D'antoni would win a championship.He had multiple chances in Phoenix to take a good Suns teams to the promised land but failed at it.I get tired of hearing how the Suns would have eliminated the Spurs a few years ago had Shawn Marion not been suspended in that playoff brawl.There was no way the Suns would have beaten the Spurs in a seven game series with D'antoni as their head coach.

I never had a problem with the D'antoni hiring at the beginning, but after nearly 2 seasons of this team not improving under him I am starting to have my doubts about his coaching ability.

I wouldn't know if Phil Jackson could take a team like the Wizards to the playoffs because I've never seen him coach a bad team.I know that he is capable of winning championships with good teams because he has done it in the past.I also know that Mike D'antoni cannot coach an already bad team to be a sub five hundred team and hasn't been able to coach a good team to the NBA finals.

No doubt about it. Mike is losing. And there are some things that this team does that are very bad. And I have serious doubts that he can really deliver a championship with his style which doesn't scream defense.

I think offensively he's really good. His offense is that share the ball pass to the open man. Somethings that makes the 70s knicks proud. There was never an issue these past two years about one on one basketball. But the defense is horrible. Walt Frazier and Willis Reed roll over in their graves seeing the Knicks play D. I think the player and way undersized up front (bottom of the league in block shots) but Mike lacks championship defensive schemes. You know what it would be awesome if we could get a defensive guru as an assistant coach. Mike's offense is a great offense its beautiful to watch and very effective. I do wish he would implement a post game cuz you need easy buckets and it helps get the other teams get into fouls (its like a running game in football, it wears the other teams down) but we have no post man.

All I'm saying is there is no need for firing him now. He had great success in the playoffs, but always lost to a better team the Spurs. Knicks fans should understand that. Jordan always got in our way. And we had Pat Riley then.

But trust me come next year he is on the HOT SEAT and I am willing to send him packing. But for lets have a sense of continuity which something the Knicks never had.
 
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