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Thread: Mike D'antoni = Back to Back seasons with 50+ losses

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    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
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    Default Mike D'antoni = Back to Back seasons with 50+ losses

    I don't mean to start another anti-D'antoni thread but wasn't this guy suppose to be a hall of fame coach (according to some) that would turn the Knicks into a competitive basketball team? Isn't he the guy with the wonderful Phoenix Suns resume? Or does he only know how to coach superstar players? If he is one of the best coaches in the league, why is he about to lose 100 games in his first 2 seasons with the Knicks? I know the Knicks have a roster that is made up of horrible players but Mike D'antoni has not been an improvement over Isiah Thomas.He is proving every game how he is a one trick pony.Unless his SSOL system is in effect, he looks just as bad as Roy Rubin did in the early 70's.I always knew it was a big mistake when Walsh decided to hire him rather than a defensive minded coach.If he was only hired by the Knicks to entice superstar players to sign with them then that is just as nonsensical as hiring a person because of their outward splendor.I am getting sick and tired of watching the Knicks lose games while waiting for this 2010 dream to come true.I've had so much hope for the Knicks before the season started and now I am just overly frustrated at the job that their coach is doing right now.

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    I said it once, I'll say it again.

    You can't entirely blame it on the coach.

    It's the lack of talent we have as well.

    Phil Jackson won't get 50 Wins with this squad.
    Gregg Popovich won't get 50 Wins with this squad.
    Red Holzman won't get 50 Wins with this squad.

    And so on and so forth.

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    I'm right there with ya, been absolutely disgraceful, I really think I could do better. He doesn't even seem to think about matchups, can't come up with anything decent out of timeouts, too many things to list. Gallo and Duhon seem to always get a free pass while other players struggle and get buried. Where's the consistency? I also think Gallo is going to wind up a huge bust if he doesn't get better coaching cuz chucking bad 3s seems to be ok now so his game isn't developing as it should IMO. Also needs to swallow his pride and play players on a need basis. Rose keep abusing us, getting switches to Gallo and killing him. Gallo can't stick with him and Duhon didn't fight over screens to avoid the switch. Walk that half mile down the bench to where you buried Hughes and say "Larry, I know we hate each other and I bench you, but I need 2 minutes of good defense on Rose right now". To me it doesn't really even seem like he does any coaching. And I still watch every game... FML

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    Streetdreams I hear that, but I don't think our talent is THAT bad. It's not playoff contender talent, but it should be playoff hunt talent to either sneak in as a team that won't go anywhere or at least compete til the last few weaks. Great coaches may not get 50 wins with this roster, but I bet a disciplinary, fundamental coach like Skiles could get 40 wins with this roster.

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    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StreetDreams21
    I said it once, I'll say it again.

    You can't entirely blame it on the coach.

    It's the lack of talent we have as well.

    Phil Jackson won't get 50 Wins with this squad.
    Gregg Popovich won't get 50 Wins with this squad.
    Red Holzman won't get 50 Wins with this squad.

    And so on and so forth.
    I've seen coaches do better with a lot less talent.Like I said before, if the reason behind D'antoni being hired was to make the Knicks appealing to superstar free agents then that is a dumb reason to hire a coach.The Knicks have basketball games to win and fans to please, they shouldn't be wasting their time basing all of their moves on a pipe dream that might not come true.And to compare Mike D'antoni (when he couldn't win a championship while he was in Phoenix) to coaches that won championships with superstar players seems a bit absurd.

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    Ha and the more players that fall out with D'Antoni don't help our cause for bringing in top free agents, people may sense something isn't so great...

    Correction on my last post though, as I read in another thread that someone very aptly noticed Hughes wasn't on the bench in 2nd half, obviously D'Antoni couldn't have asked him to do anything

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    Originally Posted by WNY_Knickfan
    I'm right there with ya, been absolutely disgraceful, I really think I could do better. He doesn't even seem to think about matchups, can't come up with anything decent out of timeouts, too many things to list. Gallo and Duhon seem to always get a free pass while other players struggle and get buried. Where's the consistency? I also think Gallo is going to wind up a huge bust if he doesn't get better coaching cuz chucking bad 3s seems to be ok now so his game isn't developing as it should IMO. Also needs to swallow his pride and play players on a need basis. Rose keep abusing us, getting switches to Gallo and killing him. Gallo can't stick with him and Duhon didn't fight over screens to avoid the switch. Walk that half mile down the bench to where you buried Hughes and say "Larry, I know we hate each other and I bench you, but I need 2 minutes of good defense on Rose right now". To me it doesn't really even seem like he does any coaching. And I still watch every game... FML
    People see my ranting and they quickly think that I am one who is expecting Mike D'antoni to win 50 games with this undertalented Knicks team.But the Knicks failing to be a 50 win team under Mike D'antoni is not why I have a problem with him.I never expected the Knicks to win more than 40 games this season, but my problem with D'antoni is that the Knicks haven't improved record wise under him.They do not look any better than the Isiah Thomas Knicks.For a guy who was praised as one of the elite coaches in the NBA a few years ago, his bad coaching is being exposed every game.He looks completely clueless with a team who is suppose to be heading in the right direction.

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    I'll say it before and I'll say its again.

    Doc Rivers 49 loses in 06, 58 losses in 07.

    KG, Ray Allen comes through 66 wins plus a championship.

    Look Mike did some questionable things this year. I dont know if he can lead a team to a championship, but he can get you to the conference finals.

    Once we get talent and reach the conference finals and we fail, then we can consider axing Mike.

    For right now, Lets keep a him.

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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    I'll say it before and I'll say its again.

    Doc Rivers 49 loses in 06, 58 losses in 07.

    KG, Ray Allen comes through 66 wins plus a championship.

    Look Mike did some questionable things this year. I dont know if he can lead a team to a championship, but he can get you to the conference finals.

    Once we get talent and reach the conference finals and we fail, then we can consider axing Mike.

    For right now, Lets keep a him.
    Has it ever occured to you that the coach you used in your example tells his players to play defense while the Knicks' coach doesn't? And to think that the Knicks will automatically get superstar players in the 2010 free agency is not very reasonable.What if the Knicks don't get anybody this off season and Mike D'antoni continues to stink? Are you going to continue being his advocate?

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    You're missing my point.

    Remember Larry Brown. Defensive coach. Did you know one of the reason why he was fired. Dolan and Isiah were insulted when Larry wanted this team gutted.

    Larry went to the Bobcats gutted that team now their in the playoff hunt...not even a decade old.

    Im not and advocate for Mike. But Im not for pointless transactions. I wasnt high on Mike coming here but he was the best coach available and Isiah had to leave.

    Who says anything about 2010. Im saying bottomline in any freakin year you need talent. It would help to have taller players. We a short upfront.

    I dont remember the Suns not making the playoffs when Mike left.

    I believe that 60 to 70% of coaches in the NBA are good coaches. 30% of that group are great.

    100% of that group would fail with this team. I'm telling you this team is really really bad man. I see a glimmer hope in some players but the players that we depend on are horrible.

    The Knicks will do something this summer. Might not be what we want but this team will improve.

    Matter fact if all the trades go through and we get Tmac, Tyrus, Cardinal, and House we're already a better team, and that group I mentioned is not that good either, thats how bad we are now.

    Its a players league.

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    People are so stupid.

    Yes, fire D'Antoni. Hire Herb Williams.

    See where that gets you.

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    50+ losses with hideous players and 2010 tunnel vision can't be ignored.

    Still, it's not like he's turned water in to wine is it. Plenty of losses could have been wins. That again can be put on to vegetable players.

    I'll sit on the fence I think

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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    You're missing my point.

    Remember Larry Brown. Defensive coach. Did you know one of the reason why he was fired. Dolan and Isiah were insulted when Larry wanted this team gutted.

    Larry went to the Bobcats gutted that team now their in the playoff hunt...not even a decade old.

    Im not and advocate for Mike. But Im not for pointless transactions. I wasnt high on Mike coming here but he was the best coach available and Isiah had to leave.

    Who says anything about 2010. Im saying bottomline in any freakin year you need talent. It would help to have taller players. We a short upfront.

    I dont remember the Suns not making the playoffs when Mike left.

    I believe that 60 to 70% of coaches in the NBA are good coaches. 30% of that group are great.

    100% of that group would fail with this team. I'm telling you this team is really really bad man. I see a glimmer hope in some players but the players that we depend on are horrible.

    The Knicks will do something this summer. Might not be what we want but this team will improve.

    Matter fact if all the trades go through and we get Tmac, Tyrus, Cardinal, and House we're already a better team, and that group I mentioned is not that good either, thats how bad we are now.

    Its a players league.

    Larry Brown had already won a championship and had a resume of taking a number of mediocre teams to the playoffs, before he came to the Knicks.And the reason why he was fired by Isiah Thomas was because of his fall out with Stephon Marbury.Mike D'antoni on the other hand, has never proven that he could coach a group of undertalented players to mediocrity and has never proven that he could get a playoff team passed the conference finals.Comparing Larry Brown's situation to D'antoni's situation with the Knicks is comparing apples to oranges.

    So by saying that Mike D'antoni was the best coach available at the time, are you implying that he is better than Avery Johnson, Scott Skiles and Jeff Van Gundy? D'antoni might have seemed like a good coach 2 years ago but he wasn't the best coach available.When Walsh went out and lured D'antoni into coming to the Knicks he knew that D'antoni's relationship with players on the U.S. Olympic team could play a major role in attracting free agents in 2010.I don't think it was because D'antoni was this great coach who was going to eventually transform the Knicks into the '96 Bulls.

    When D'antoni made his debut for the Knicks, didn't he say that he was going to bring back competitive basketball to MSG? Was he just saying those things because his large pay check required him to fill Knick fans with false hope? Or did he actually believe that he was going to make the Knicks a better team? So far, he's been Knick coach for almost 2 years and the Knicks still haven't learned how to play defense and are regressing as the clock moves forward.

    You don't have to be a great head coach to get a group of undertalented players to compete every night.Look at Rick Adelman, he isn't a great coach but he manages to get the best out of his Houston Rockets team in a conference that is a lot tougher than the one that the Knicks play in.Mike Fratello, when he coached in the NBA was far from a great coach but he took mediocre Cavalier teams to the playoffs every year.And he was doing this during a period in which players like Michael Jordan, Patrick Ewing and Karl Malone were dominating the league.Don't tell me that the reason why D'antoni is about to lose 50 games, once again for the Knicks, is because the Knicks are completely uncoachable.If that is the only reason why the Knicks are so bad then they shouldn't even be competing in the NBA.The fact that they have players who are talented enough to play in the NBA should be enough for a good coach not to lose 50 games with them every year.You're telling me that a man who can coach an Olympic team to a gold medal can't coach a group of NBA players to win a mere 40 games in a weak division because his players aren't good enough to play for him? Something has to be wrong with this picture.

    Even if the Knicks acquired McGrady,Thomas or House it won't make much of a difference for them.Mike D'antoni has proven that if you're not his favorite player you aren't going to be used to your full potential and could be in danger of being put on the inactive roster.I know a coach is suppose to set certain standards for his team, but how have the Knicks benefited from D'antoni benching Larry Hughes? When he was in the lineup, the Knicks were playing defense and looked like they were going to be serious contenders for the last playoff spot in the East.But then the inevitable took place: Mike D'antoni decided to go with his pride rather than his common sense and the Knicks suffered as a result of it.

    I don't think Mike D'antoni is a bad person.He seems like a guy with a wonderful personality, but when he doesn't do his job correctly, he will be criticized for it.
    Last edited by knicksin60; Feb 18, 2010 at 00:18.

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    Originally Posted by Hitman
    People are so stupid.

    Yes, fire D'Antoni. Hire Herb Williams.

    See where that gets you.
    Someone said fire D and hire Herb? Where was this? We all know this isn't a fabulous roster, but I doubt you can argue the coaching staff has hardly maximized the abilities of the players. That's what coaching is. Anyone can win with an all-star squad, but how can you make the most of the strengths of your players while do your best to hide or minimize their weaknesses?

    I liked the D'Antoni hiring, but he hardly seems like he's bothering to coach this year. Certain players are never held accountable no matter what, while others have a couple bad games and are buring in the rotation. The rotation is bull****, he didn't even know his players well halfway through the year (see starting Nate at pg over Duhon then deciding gee, Nate isn't meant to be a prototypical point guard). They don't defend well, my 8th grade CYO coach could invent better plays out of a time out in late game situations than the offensive genius has managed to, he doesn't get consistent effort, and he doesn't even seem to have their respect. Now if Lebron and Bosh sign here he can be a great coach and get us 55 plus wins... give me a break. That's like me validating myself by betting you if I had a roster of Chris Paul, Kobe Bryant, Lebron James, Chris Bosh and Dwight Howard I could probably coach them to the playoffs even though I lack coaching experience. Wow, great for me! Perhaps with the players he wants and proper motivation D'Antoni can be a good coach, but for now he doesn't seem motivated and has failed on many levels. He can't even communicate with players effectively and manage egos to keep players happy. Since he's been here, fallout with Marbury, fallout with Hughes, fallout with Nate, fallout with Darko, fallout with Al... mainly because he doesn't have a man to man discussion with people on where they stand, he just ****s them over without explanation. But on the bright side, the more players he pisses off while we continue to lose, the more superstars are going to want to sign here... oh... ****, nevermind

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    Originally Posted by WNY_Knickfan
    I'm right there with ya, been absolutely disgraceful, I really think I could do better. He doesn't even seem to think about matchups, can't come up with anything decent out of timeouts, too many things to list. Gallo and Duhon seem to always get a free pass while other players struggle and get buried. Where's the consistency? I also think Gallo is going to wind up a huge bust if he doesn't get better coaching cuz chucking bad 3s seems to be ok now so his game isn't developing as it should IMO. Also needs to swallow his pride and play players on a need basis. Rose keep abusing us, getting switches to Gallo and killing him. Gallo can't stick with him and Duhon didn't fight over screens to avoid the switch. Walk that half mile down the bench to where you buried Hughes and say "Larry, I know we hate each other and I bench you, but I need 2 minutes of good defense on Rose right now". To me it doesn't really even seem like he does any coaching. And I still watch every game... FML
    Great post! You described everything perfectly and outlined what types of actions make a good coach. People think its simply about winning and losing with this team but its not. I'm aware that Dantoni is working with a bunch of bench players BUT he still fails to do the things neccessary to maximize win potential.

    Popovich or Jackson probably wouldn't take this team to the playoffs but I bet you they would consistently put them in a position to win on a nightly basis and at the same time improve the development of our rookies and Gallo.

    Coaching is about more than just having good or bad players. Real basketball heads will understand that.

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