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Thread: Mike D'antoni = Back to Back seasons with 50+ losses

  1. #31
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    Dantoni is a joke.
    He does not know how to run a half court set and has the worst plays out of a time out..
    He has only one style of coaching and thats a run and gun offense. He doesnt know how to coach defense.
    These are reasons he can never win a championship and will never be able to win in NY..
    He had Nash for 2 amazing years and ran a great offense. Other than that he has accomplished nothing.

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    When people judge Mike based on the record i feel like stabbing myself with a rusty knife. Didn't we do much worse with a HOF coach in Larry Brown because we had basically the same worthless bunch? Brawn had actually a much better roster than D'antoni has and he is still able to keep them in the game.

    We knew all along that these 2 years were going to be difficult. Mike said it tonite too in his show but he said that we knew that all along, he also mentioned that it is extremely hard on him to swallow the type of performance the team has been showing but how much can he do with those bums?

    Criticizing D'antoni is plain dumb and stupid. Give him a decent team and than sing the obituaries if he is no good.

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by th3realicon
    When people judge Mike based on the record i feel like stabbing myself with a rusty knife. Didn't we do much worse with a HOF coach in Larry Brown because we had basically the same worthless bunch? Brawn had actually a much better roster than D'antoni has and he is still able to keep them in the game.

    We knew all along that these 2 years were going to be difficult. Mike said it tonite too in his show but he said that we knew that all along, he also mentioned that it is extremely hard on him to swallow the type of performance the team has been showing but how much can he do with those bums?

    Criticizing D'antoni is plain dumb and stupid. Give him a decent team and than sing the obituaries if he is no good.

    First of all Larry Brown never really got a fair chance in NY. Also he was stuck with Isaiah and his dumb moves..
    I never liked the hiring of Dantoni in the first place. He is a one sided coach and his method is not what wins big games in the nba..
    His system you almost certainly need a point guard like Jkidd or Nash or even a CP3 or else it wont work.. With the players we will be getting in the summer his system will not work because guys like Cbosh and Lebron its not all about run and gun.
    Mark my words Dantoni will never give us a chance here..
    Just think about all the successful coaches in NY. Its all about defense and half court sets which are 2 things Dantoni cannot handle

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by bigyi21
    First of all Larry Brown never really got a fair chance in NY. Also he was stuck with Isaiah and his dumb moves..
    I never liked the hiring of Dantoni in the first place. He is a one sided coach and his method is not what wins big games in the nba..
    His system you almost certainly need a point guard like Jkidd or Nash or even a CP3 or else it wont work.. With the players we will be getting in the summer his system will not work because guys like Cbosh and Lebron its not all about run and gun.
    Mark my words Dantoni will never give us a chance here..
    Just think about all the successful coaches in NY. Its all about defense and half court sets which are 2 things Dantoni cannot handle

    I feel the same way as you to a point. But I feel that firing him is not the right time now. If he's bad with players like Lebron, he'll be gone with the quickness and I would have no problem.

    But for right now lets keep the guy.

    I see it like this........Lebron is gonna visit us this summer. He's not b.s. around with Mike and Walsh. He's gonna say "Mike I played with you in 2008 and you're great. But I watch the Suns and the Knicks play and I dont see the defensive intensity from your teams thats need. You better do what the celtics did and get a defensive guru as an assistant coach before we talk again. Mike Brown is a Popovich guy and Popovich has been rapin your teams for years. So get it done and I'm here."

    Thats how its gonna down. Then when Lebron leaves, Walsh will look at Mike and say "Don't f*** this up for me."

    Boom.

  5. #35
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    Originally Posted by th3realicon
    When people judge Mike based on the record i feel like stabbing myself with a rusty knife. Didn't we do much worse with a HOF coach in Larry Brown because we had basically the same worthless bunch? Brawn had actually a much better roster than D'antoni has and he is still able to keep them in the game.

    We knew all along that these 2 years were going to be difficult. Mike said it tonite too in his show but he said that we knew that all along, he also mentioned that it is extremely hard on him to swallow the type of performance the team has been showing but how much can he do with those bums?

    Criticizing D'antoni is plain dumb and stupid. Give him a decent team and than sing the obituaries if he is no good.
    So fans should drink the D'antoni Kool-aid and not be allowed to express an opinion that isn't pro D'antoni?

    When you look at Larry Brown's career coaching stats you will see that it usually takes him more than one season for a team to improve under him.

    In his first season coaching the Nets he won 44 games, in his second year with them he won 47 games.

    In his first season coaching the Spurs he won a pathetic 21 games with, in his second season with them he won 56 games.

    In his first season with the Pacers he won 47 games, in his second season with them he won 52 games.

    In his first season with the Sixers he finished 20 games below five hundred and in his second season with them he finished six games above five hundred.

    In his first season with the Bobcats he won 35 games, so far this season the Bobcats have won 27 games and have a good chance of making the playoffs.

    In is first seasons coaching NBA teams he has a winning percentage of .486, in his second seasons he has a winning percentage of .594.

    In his second season with the Knicks, Mike D'antoni is on pace to lose more games than he did in his first season with the Knicks.

    Had Larry Brown been given another season with the Knicks, they would have improved.

    This is why it is pretty meaningless to use Larry Brown's one season with the Knicks as an excuse to dismiss the 100 games that D'antoni will be losing with the Knicks.

    Anybody who says no other NBA coach could coach the Knicks to a better record is basically implying that Mike D'antoni is just as good as the best coach in the NBA.

  6. #36
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    Larry Brown had already won a championship and had a resume of taking a number of mediocre teams to the playoffs, before he came to the Knicks.And the reason why he was fired by Isiah Thomas was because of his fall out with Stephon Marbury.Mike D'antoni on the other hand, has never proven that he could coach a group of undertalented players to mediocrity and has never proven that he could get a playoff team passed the conference finals.Comparing Larry Brown's situation to D'antoni's situation with the Knicks is comparing apples to oranges.

    So by saying that Mike D'antoni was the best coach available at the time, are you implying that he is better than Avery Johnson, Scott Skiles and Jeff Van Gundy? D'antoni might have seemed like a good coach 2 years ago but he wasn't the best coach available.When Walsh went out and lured D'antoni into coming to the Knicks he knew that D'antoni's relationship with players on the U.S. Olympic team could play a major role in attracting free agents in 2010.I don't think it was because D'antoni was this great coach who was going to eventually transform the Knicks into the '96 Bulls.

    When D'antoni made his debut for the Knicks, didn't he say that he was going to bring back competitive basketball to MSG? Was he just saying those things because his large pay check required him to fill Knick fans with false hope? Or did he actually believe that he was going to make the Knicks a better team? So far, he's been Knick coach for almost 2 years and the Knicks still haven't learned how to play defense and are regressing as the clock moves forward.

    You don't have to be a great head coach to get a group of undertalented players to compete every night.Look at Rick Adelman, he isn't a great coach but he manages to get the best out of his Houston Rockets team in a conference that is a lot tougher than the one that the Knicks play in.Mike Fratello, when he coached in the NBA was far from a great coach but he took mediocre Cavalier teams to the playoffs every year.And he was doing this during a period in which players like Michael Jordan, Patrick Ewing and Karl Malone were dominating the league.Don't tell me that the reason why D'antoni is about to lose 50 games, once again for the Knicks, is because the Knicks are completely uncoachable.If that is the only reason why the Knicks are so bad then they shouldn't even be competing in the NBA.The fact that they have players who are talented enough to play in the NBA should be enough for a good coach not to lose 50 games with them every year.You're telling me that a man who can coach an Olympic team to a gold medal can't coach a group of NBA players to win a mere 40 games in a weak division because his players aren't good enough to play for him? Something has to be wrong with this picture.

    Even if the Knicks acquired McGrady,Thomas or House it won't make much of a difference for them.Mike D'antoni has proven that if you're not his favorite player you aren't going to be used to your full potential and could be in danger of being put on the inactive roster.I know a coach is suppose to set certain standards for his team, but how have the Knicks benefited from D'antoni benching Larry Hughes? When he was in the lineup, the Knicks were playing defense and looked like they were going to be serious contenders for the last playoff spot in the East.But then the inevitable took place: Mike D'antoni decided to go with his pride rather than his common sense and the Knicks suffered as a result of it.

    I don't think Mike D'antoni is a bad person.He seems like a guy with a wonderful personality, but when he doesn't do his job correctly, he will be criticized for it.
    I remember those Cavs, those guys were a pretty good team. The players defensive orientated they never had an answer for the other superstar players. When Jordan would hit a big shot with 20 seconds left to go in a game the Cavs had nobody to create their own shot.

    First off Van Gundy is never coming back unless Walsh convinces Dolan other wise. Larry Brown got fired cuz he wanted that team gutted and Isiah felt insulted and Dolan for some reason was so loyal to him that he fired Larry. Larry was right. Very bad team. Just list the players Larry had. You just wanna throw up.

    Think about it and this is in the literal sense I'm speaking. We actually took on every reject in this league. Every player we signed was about proving themselves that their one of the best players in the league. Isiah felt that since he turned around Jermaine O'neal's career, that he could do it with any reject. The players on those teams never shared the ball. Always one on one type plays.

    Now with these players and Mike's offense, this team does share the ball. They just horrible defensively.


    I always believed that 70 to 80% of the coaches in this league are very good. About small group of that number are considered great. Mike has not proven himself to be a great coach. He is being exposed a bit because the Knicks cant execute out of timeout plays. Thats on the coach alone. But during the games, Its all about the players. And Duhon is hurting us so.

    And any game thats close we have no go to guy. Lee is great but he's not built for that.

    Rick Adelman is a great coach, he's underatted. Those Kings teams almost took down the that Laker dynasty. If he had a healthy Mcgrady on that Kings team. Championships.

    You need players. Oh and we need a shot blocker. A legitimate center that can stablize this defense. Its very hard to guard anybody in this league. But if you got some height back there, players will feel more comfortable about defending tighter.

    Players first, then the coaches. You dont expect Phil Jackson to get to the playoffs with the Wizards do you?

  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    So fans should drink the D'antoni Kool-aid and not be allowed to express an opinion that isn't pro D'antoni?

    When you look at Larry Brown's career coaching stats you will see that it usually takes him more than one season for a team to improve under him.

    In his first season coaching the Nets he won 44 games, in his second year with them he won 47 games.

    In his first season coaching the Spurs he won a pathetic 21 games with, in his second season with them he won 56 games.

    In his first season with the Pacers he won 47 games, in his second season with them he won 52 games.

    In his first season with the Sixers he finished 20 games below five hundred and in his second season with them he finished six games above five hundred.

    In his first season with the Bobcats he won 35 games, so far this season the Bobcats have won 27 games and have a good chance of making the playoffs.

    In is first seasons coaching NBA teams he has a winning percentage of .486, in his second seasons he has a winning percentage of .594.

    In his second season with the Knicks, Mike D'antoni is on pace to lose more games than he did in his first season with the Knicks.

    Had Larry Brown been given another season with the Knicks, they would have improved.

    This is why it is pretty meaningless to use Larry Brown's one season with the Knicks as an excuse to dismiss the 100 games that D'antoni will be losing with the Knicks.

    Anybody who says no other NBA coach could coach the Knicks to a better record is basically implying that Mike D'antoni is just as good as the best coach in the NBA.
    NOT TRUE. Larry Brown would never improve the same team he inherited. He would gut those teams and get his type of players. Veterans. Larry Brown contradicts himself. He says he loves to teach but would get rid or never play the young guys. He was fired because Isiah was insulted when Larry wanted all the players isiah brought in out. So Dolan canned him. Look at the Bobcats now, they are not the same team before he got there. So that improvement thing is hallow.

    Remember Larry Brown won bronze with Olympic team. That team was trash. With Marbury, Iverson, Richard Jefferson, and Odom. He never played Lebron and Melo because they were too young. He only trust vets. And he lost. That team was weak.

    So what happens we reload with Hall of Famers and we barely get the gold. Well earned but no domination. You need players. Especially nowadays. The Lakers are stacked but they are not blowing any teams away. The NBA is a very good league. The worst teams in this league are good, they just get exposed with teams with better players.

    Now you need coaching to take you to a next level. But when you're losing about 50 games a year its not coaching. Coaches get fired every year and the teams never improves the next year.
    For god sakes look at the Bucks, they had so many coaches, and still sucked for all those years. This year still a losing record but they got better players through the draft.

  8. #38
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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    You need players. Oh and we need a shot blocker. A legitimate center that can stablize this defense. Its very hard to guard anybody in this league. But if you got some height back there, players will feel more comfortable about defending tighter.

    Players first, then the coaches. You dont expect Phil Jackson to get to the playoffs with the Wizards do you?
    For some reason, I am not convinced that even with a great team, D'antoni would win a championship.He had multiple chances in Phoenix to take a good Suns teams to the promised land but failed at it.I get tired of hearing how the Suns would have eliminated the Spurs a few years ago had Shawn Marion not been suspended in that playoff brawl.There was no way the Suns would have beaten the Spurs in a seven game series with D'antoni as their head coach.

    I never had a problem with the D'antoni hiring at the beginning, but after nearly 2 seasons of this team not improving under him I am starting to have my doubts about his coaching ability.

    I wouldn't know if Phil Jackson could take a team like the Wizards to the playoffs because I've never seen him coach a bad team.I know that he is capable of winning championships with good teams because he has done it in the past.I also know that Mike D'antoni cannot coach an already bad team to be a sub five hundred team and hasn't been able to coach a good team to the NBA finals.

  9. #39
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    Mike D'Antoni is very overrated and very overpaid. And it is partially his fault why the team has the worst roster in the NBA. He was the one who supported the signing and starting of Chris Duhon, and he is the one who supported the drafting of Danilo Gallinari over Brook Lopez. He is also the one who caused Nate Robinson to be traded for crumbs. Unless the Knicks manage to sign BOTH Joe Johnson and Amare Stoudamire, he needs to be fired. I would rather have a defensive minded coach working with James and Bosh than D'Antoni. Not that I think the Knicks will get James and Bosh, but if it did happen, they should fire D'Antoni and replace him with a defensive coach.

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    Originally Posted by knicksin60
    For some reason, I am not convinced that even with a great team, D'antoni would win a championship.He had multiple chances in Phoenix to take a good Suns teams to the promised land but failed at it.I get tired of hearing how the Suns would have eliminated the Spurs a few years ago had Shawn Marion not been suspended in that playoff brawl.There was no way the Suns would have beaten the Spurs in a seven game series with D'antoni as their head coach.

    I never had a problem with the D'antoni hiring at the beginning, but after nearly 2 seasons of this team not improving under him I am starting to have my doubts about his coaching ability.

    I wouldn't know if Phil Jackson could take a team like the Wizards to the playoffs because I've never seen him coach a bad team.I know that he is capable of winning championships with good teams because he has done it in the past.I also know that Mike D'antoni cannot coach an already bad team to be a sub five hundred team and hasn't been able to coach a good team to the NBA finals.
    No doubt about it. Mike is losing. And there are some things that this team does that are very bad. And I have serious doubts that he can really deliver a championship with his style which doesn't scream defense.

    I think offensively he's really good. His offense is that share the ball pass to the open man. Somethings that makes the 70s knicks proud. There was never an issue these past two years about one on one basketball. But the defense is horrible. Walt Frazier and Willis Reed roll over in their graves seeing the Knicks play D. I think the player and way undersized up front (bottom of the league in block shots) but Mike lacks championship defensive schemes. You know what it would be awesome if we could get a defensive guru as an assistant coach. Mike's offense is a great offense its beautiful to watch and very effective. I do wish he would implement a post game cuz you need easy buckets and it helps get the other teams get into fouls (its like a running game in football, it wears the other teams down) but we have no post man.

    All I'm saying is there is no need for firing him now. He had great success in the playoffs, but always lost to a better team the Spurs. Knicks fans should understand that. Jordan always got in our way. And we had Pat Riley then.

    But trust me come next year he is on the HOT SEAT and I am willing to send him packing. But for lets have a sense of continuity which something the Knicks never had.

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    Default Here We Go Again...

    I have been a loyal Knick fan since í67 (I was born in í60). IĎve been loyal throughout all of the good and bad times with this franchise. Iíve disagreed with a lot of the moves that were made by the management and coaches, but have, for the most part, given them the benefit of the doubt. Enough is enough!! Iím not exactly sure why they are doing this to a once proud franchise, but they are destroying this team. Iíve heard it said it is for the upcoming free agent class. Any one of those marquee players would be absolute idiots to come to NY!! Hell, Iím from there and I donít go home that often! It is painful to watch a bunch of old men attempt to construct a basketball team when the game has clearly passed them by. The fact that Mike Díantoni is completely clueless as a coach is not even his most glaring fault. He is a petty, vindictive little tyrant who was better suited for the days when coaches were dictators and players had no say what so ever. I hear all the talk about lack of defense being played by the Knicks, but I donít remember David Leeís name being mentioned. Isnít he supposed to be playing some defense, too? Not only has he not taken a charge all year, I doubt if he can even SPELL charge!! Iíve watch a good portion of the games this year. Can somebody tell me why Jordan Hill & Tony Douglas were buried on the bench while Danilo Gallinari & Chris Duhon were allowed in MSG without a ticket? Is it because Gallinari is Italian and Duhon is cool with the President? Surely basketball ability had nothing to do with it. Duhon has been ďshooting his way out of his shooting slumpĒ since he left Chicago and Gallinari might actually make physical contact with an opposing player this year. Anybody got Kyle Korverís phone number? Then thereís the Nate Robinson-for-Eddie House trade. What happened, Brian Scalabrini had a no-trade clause? Nate was a reason to come to the Garden. Who am I coming to see now, Brian Cardinal? I look at the guys on the roster who got playing time and the guys who didnít and I wonder: the guys who played, did they stroke Díantoniís over blown ego in exchange for playing time. I have another way of putting it, but Iím trying to keep this clean. Iím sick to death of coaches who couldnít carry todayís NBA playersí luggage thinking they are bigger than the game, and I include Larry ďFrontrunnerĒ Brown in that mix. Donít get all wet over <?xml:namespace prefix = st1 ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comffice:smarttags" /><st1lace w:st="on"><st1:City w:st="on">Charlotte</st1:City></st1lace> being in the playoff hunt, Larry Frontrunner jumped on an up and coming bandwagon. Ray Charles couldíve seen <st1:City w:st="on"><st1lace w:st="on">Charlotte</st1lace></st1:City> getting better, so Brown gets props for having good vision. This isnít a playerís league; itís an old white manís league. The life is getting sucked out of this game fans passing themselves off as GMs and basketball operations men. If you didnít like that comment, check this one out: big ups to Stephon Marbury for going overseas to play. Thatís where the free agent class of 2010 should go. At least theyíll be able to speak the way they want and not be told how to dress, I mean all they do is generate very dime that comes into this league!! Gilbert Arenas should have brought that gun to the league offices!! But I digress. What the Knicks are doing is disgusting, but sadly, the norm in the NBA. It doesnít show up other places because somebody has to win and somebody has to lose. What is it they say in sports: winning cures everything? Apparently it hides things as well. I work long hours, so I donít post here that often, but I think I need to make a habit of putting something up every now and then. Thereís a whole lot of stuff not being said.

  13. #43
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    Default 50 wins? 50 big "L's" that were not necessary

    Originally Posted by StreetDreams21
    I said it once, I'll say it again.

    You can't entirely blame it on the coach.

    It's the lack of talent we have as well.

    Phil Jackson won't get 50 Wins with this squad.
    Gregg Popovich won't get 50 Wins with this squad.
    Red Holzman won't get 50 Wins with this squad.

    And so on and so forth.
    We don't need 50 wins, but you could have gotten 10-12 more wins which would have put you in the playoffs. A quote from November of this season
    Chris Duhon: Duhon is the Starter
    "" Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni said Duhon's starting job is safe for now, despite some anemic play recently, the New York Daily News reports.
    Analysis: Duhon has made just 17 of his 72 field-goal attempts this season, after throwing up a goose egg in Wednesday's loss to Atlanta. "Duhon's my point guard," D'Antoni said after Thursday's practice. "He's in a funk and we've got to get him out of it. He'll get out of it. I'm not shedding or throwing people overboard. I'm hanging in there and seeing what we can do." The reality is that Duhon is the best point guard on the team at this point in time. Certainly better than Toney Douglas and Nate Robinson""

    Nope, Robinson, Douglas and be far Hughes would have given you better numbers that Duhon. It was not only Nov, but then Dec, then Jan, then just about all of Feb (Duhon scored 24 I believe, but that's for the month).
    A starting point guard and I am not blaming Duhon, he didn't make the call to be on the court over 35 minutes until the trade deadline day.

    Remember, Hughes pulled the Knicks out of their worst starts in history.
    Hughes when starting in December gave the Knicks almost their best December ever.
    Hughes was in the top three while starting in the NBA in steals (he still has speed to cover the passing lanes)
    Hughes played point and took Cleveland to the Eastern Conference Champs and finals who lost to San Antonio.
    Passed by every team in East with amazing point guard play (though not his natural position).

    So remember, it was D'Antoni defending DUHON in November and only when we got a broken down T-Mac, with one knee, did he ever, evee, mss a start.

    The coach has favorites and riffs with players, so that is what came out of New York this year. What it means next year, some players like Lebron (close friends with HUGHES), will never play for him. Plus Robinson , Jeffries, Curry and Marbury are all putting the coach is wacked in the press.

    Going into year number three, the weight ****s, more and more to the coach. Jordan Hill draft, total waste.

  14. #44
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    any coach who gives the keys to a team/franchise to Chris Duhorn, while you have an allstar in starbury on the team is ****in retard and cant coach for ****..........back-to-back 50 loss season even Thomas didnt do that

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    In my book, Back to Back 50+ loss seasons = getting fired....

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