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Thread: We Can Still Use the MLE!!

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Default We Can Still Use the MLE!!

    I posted this in another thread but thought I would make another one because it can be a substantial amount of money available to us this offseason.

    Ok, so here is how it works. For teams under the cap, the MLE counts as team salary and against the available salary cap. Teams under the cap typically renounce the exceptions (MLE, Bi-Annual) in order to preserve cap space.

    If our intention is to sign two max contracts, however, we must renounce the exceptions to preserve the cap space.

    But if our intention is to only sign 1 max contract player and fill out the roster we can choose to retain the MLE.

    It will count approx as a $5.8 mil cap hold. If we choose to retain Lee's Bird Rights it will count as a $10.5 mil cap hold. This totals $16.3 mil in cap holds. Add in the "phantom" player minimum salary cap holds to fill out the 12 player minimum roster (4 on the books + 3 2nd round draft picks = 7 players on the roster. 5 "phantom" roster cap holds at $488,000 = $2.4 mil).

    $16.3 + $2.4 = $18.7 in total cap holds.

    We will have $17.8 mil in team salary this July. If the cap comes in at $54 mil, that gives us $36.2 mil in cap space. Subtract the $18.7 in cap holds and we still have $17.5 mil in cap space.

    A max contract for $54 mil salary cap is $16.2 mil.


    What does all of this mean?

    We can sign a max contract player, resign Lee and go over the cap because we retained his Bird Rights and the use the MLE (and go over the cap) to get other players.


    Another important fact. If a team is under the cap, they can make trades and don't have to match salaries. That team can take on more salary than it is giving.

    So after a max is signed we will still be under the cap. We can then trade with another team and take on a large salary and go over the cap. Then Lee and the MLE can be signed.

    This affords us many options to fill out the roster around a max. What would you do?

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    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    yeah we have so many options. Next years team will be quite good

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    I would rather go over the cap after we get rid of Curry. It will have more bang for its buck at that point. If we go over next season just to lose Curry's contract and go back under by a few mil is a bit of a waste IMO. We need to get Lebron + either Lee or a max and then fill the squad with scrubs and wait for 2011. AT that point we go after a stud and go way over the cap.

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    OG GoKnIcKsDLEE42's Avatar
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    You have an unbelievable understanding of all this, good job.

    Donnie's checklist has to be this, in this order:
    -Sign Lebron/Wade/Bosh/etc. to a max. If they come out of the offseason without one of the mentioned players, the plan has failed.

    -Trade with Milwaukee for Michael Redd, Golden State for Monta Ellis, or if you can swing a deal with Portland for Aldridge then it's gotta be done. Maybe revisit the Rubio situation. Check with Memphis and see if Thabeet is available.

    -Sign Lee.

    - Use the MLE. If McGrady finishes strong and healthy, then you need to think about bringing him back; this is if he would settle for about $5-6 mil. Other options are Matt Barnes of Orlando, maybe TJ Ford, or even Ray Felton. Carl Landry would be a solid option.

    This would create an ideal lineup of:

    Ford/Felton/Sergio?
    McGrady/Ellis/Redd
    LeBron
    Gallinari/Barnes
    Lee
    Aldridge/Thabeet

    Bench:
    Ford/Felton/Sergio/Douglas?
    Landry
    Wilson Chandler
    Eddie House

    Italics=Knick via trade, most likely only one of them.

    I have a good feeling about this offseason. Donnie has succesfully carried out with his plan thus far, and I have no reason to think he will do anything but turn the Knicks into a championship-contender almost over night.
    Last edited by GoKnIcKsDLEE42; Feb 26, 2010 at 12:53.

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    I would rather go over the cap after we get rid of Curry. It will have more bang for its buck at that point. If we go over next season just to lose Curry's contract and go back under by a few mil is a bit of a waste IMO. We need to get Lebron + either Lee or a max and then fill the squad with scrubs and wait for 2011. AT that point we go after a stud and go way over the cap.
    Umm, it doesn't work that way. Or maybe I don't undertsand what you're saying. Please explain. If we let Curry's contract expire next year we will only have $11.2 mil in cap space.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Umm, it doesn't work that way. Or maybe I don't undertsand what you're saying. Please explain. If we let Curry's contract expire next year we will only have $11.2 mil in cap space.
    Cant we sign and trade to go over the cap? Or trade Curry's expiring to go over? I am not very good with Cap rules..more of an authority on the actual game...

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    Member WNY_Knickfan's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by GoKnIcKsDLEE42
    You have an unbelievable understanding of all this, good job.

    Donnie's checklist has to be this, in this order:
    -Sign Lebron/Wade/Bosh/etc. to a max. If they come out of the offseason without one of the mentioned players, the plan has failed.

    -Trade with Milwaukee for Michael Redd, Golden State for Monta Ellis, or if you can swing a deal with Portland for Aldridge then it's gotta be done. Maybe revisit the Rubio situation. Check with Memphis and see if Thabeet is available.

    -Sign Lee.

    - Use the MLE. If McGrady finishes strong and healthy, then you need to think about bringing him back; this is if he would settle for about $5-6 mil. Other options are Matt Barnes of Orlando, maybe TJ Ford, or even Ray Felton. Carl Landry would be a solid option.

    This would create an ideal lineup of:

    Ford/Felton/Sergio?
    McGrady/Ellis/Redd
    LeBron
    Gallinari/Barnes
    Lee
    Aldridge/Thabeet

    Bench:
    Ford/Felton/Sergio/Douglas?
    Landry
    Wilson Chandler
    Eddie House

    Italics=Knick via trade, most likely only one of them.

    I have a good feeling about this offseason. Donnie has succesfully carried out with his plan thus far, and I have no reason to think he will do anything but turn the Knicks into a championship-contender almost over night.

    LMAO I think Thabeet might be available, but do you want a D-leaguer taking up the cap space of a #2 overall? Also not at all willing to place any amount of confidence in Redd having any knees whatsoever, for his sake I hope so he's had real crappy luck, but I'm sick of basing out success chances on "hope so's" and "maybes" we only need to look at players we are confident can make a difference, not guys that maybe can develop to be good, or if for once in their life they can stay healthy will be good. That's been our last 10 years, no thanks

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Cant we sign and trade to go over the cap? Or trade Curry's expiring to go over? I am not very good with Cap rules..more of an authority on the actual game...
    Yes, we can sign and trade our own players that have Bird Rights and go over the cap. Like Orlando signing Turkoglu and trading him to Toronto. Or we can sign and trade Lee and go over the cap, if we retain his Bird Rights. But why would we sign and trade Curry?

    Yes, we can trade Curry's expiring contract to go over the cap. But you stated that we should hold onto it and let it expire next year and use the cap space. After next year's trade deadline, we cannot trade Curry. His contract will just expire.

    Curry's greatest value will be between 2010 draft day and next year's trade deadline. Outside of that timeframe, he has zero value.

    Make sense?

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Curry's greatest value will be between 2010 draft day and next year's trade deadline. Outside of that timeframe, he has zero value.
    not exactly correct... if you are a stockholder in mickey d's, he has value yesterday, today and tommorrow....

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    OG GoKnIcKsDLEE42's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Yes, we can sign and trade our own players that have Bird Rights and go over the cap. Like Orlando signing Turkoglu and trading him to Toronto. Or we can sign and trade Lee and go over the cap, if we retain his Bird Rights. But why would we sign and trade Curry?

    Yes, we can trade Curry's expiring contract to go over the cap. But you stated that we should hold onto it and let it expire next year and use the cap space. After next year's trade deadline, we cannot trade Curry. His contract will just expire.

    Curry's greatest value will be between 2010 draft day and next year's trade deadline. Outside of that timeframe, he has zero value.

    Make sense?
    So pretty much getting over the cap is an advantage because it brings along the advantage of enabling us to use MLE money? Still trying to sort all this cap stuff out.

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    Lebron James + David Lee + Chris Bosh = Dynasty! All I'm sayin.....

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    Originally Posted by paris401
    not exactly correct... if you are a stockholder in mickey d's, he has value yesterday, today and tommorrow....
    Haaaaaaaaaaaa!

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    So we retain Bird Rights and we can go over the cap.

    Being below the cap, we can rig trades without having to match a high salary.

    So it's 2 Max Contracts vs Retaining Lee's bird rights and being able to go over the cap and using that available remaining space to sign a high salary player without having to match salaries.

    What would you do?


    Trade options are there, but to make a trade we have to have a suitable scenario for whichever team we're trying to trade with.

    Curry is obviously trade bait as a large expiring contract, but would anyone make that trade in the off-season or by the first trade deadline? Who'd want that fat pole smoker doing nothing on their team for a year?

    Am I missing anything here?

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    Nice thread LJ. You and Danutz have this whole CBA thing down. Highly unlikely to me the whole max contract + Dlee + MLE is going to happen though. Only way I see signing Lebron, Wade or Bosh is a SnT using DLee. Lebron, Wade or Bosh are not going to leave 30M on the table by taking an offer from the Knicks.

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    Originally Posted by tiger0330
    Nice thread LJ. You and Danutz have this whole CBA thing down. Highly unlikely to me the whole max contract + Dlee + MLE is going to happen though. Only way I see signing Lebron, Wade or Bosh is a SnT using DLee. Lebron, Wade or Bosh are not going to leave 30M on the table by taking an offer from the Knicks.
    Almost everything that LJ posted in his original post is very accurate and very well explained but there is a small part at the end that I disagree.

    LJ wrote:

    Another important fact. If a team is under the cap, they can make trades and don't have to match salaries. That team can take on more salary than it is giving.
    So after a max is signed we will still be under the cap.
    And that is true

    Then:

    We can then trade with another team and take on a large salary and go over the cap.
    This is where my understanding differ from his and this is why.

    If a team is under the cap they are not bound by the 125% + 100k trading rule.
    Therefore if they are let say 8mill under the cap they can trade a 3 mill contract and absorb a larger one as much as their cap permits, in this case 8 mill.
    However they can not trade a 3 mill contract and get back a 12 mill contract ( thus going over the cap) since the 125% + 100k will go in effect making the trade not possible.

    So if we only sign 1 max we will be able to resign D-Lee and use our MLE but if we sign 2 max contracts we loose those options.


    As for Lebron, Wade or other superstar leaving money on the table that is just bull shoot.

    When people say that they take into consideration 3 things: a) the option year those superstars have, b) the 2% per year increase difference between their original team and the new team, and c) the extra contract year their team can give them as opposed to a new team.

    Now let say Lebron comes to the Knicks.

    a) He will decline his next year option worth 17.15 mill but will get a starting salary of 16.2 mill from the Knicks. Money ''left on the table'' 950 k.

    b) If he sign a new contract with the Cavaliers next year his starting salary will be 17.3 mill as opposed to 16.2 mill from the Knicks. If you calculate the 2% per year increase difference is about 4-5 mill which will be more than offset by endorsments.

    c) Now tha extra year by itself is worth around 28mill but at 25 years old nobody expect Lebron to sign a contract without options after the 4 or 5 year. He will sign a new contract with either team before that sixth year will come into effect thus making it null.


    So yes hypothetically he will ''leave money on the table" but in the real world that is the least of his concerns when it comes to choosing his next team. It's all about his best options and opportunities.

    If you look from the other side then you can say he will ''leave some money on the table'' (endorsments and marketing wise) by choosing the Cavaliers against the Knicks.

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