That is just not true. Even if it was it does not change my point that our values are inherent to being human and we do not need religion or a supreme being in order to be good.
Hunter gatherer's did not exist. Adam was the first man. And he was a lot smarter than a hunter gatherer.
And what you just said, is what Satan basically implied to Eve, man does not need God. Thousands of years later, man without God has been an epic fail. All humans do is live in strife and turmoil, with a few good moments, then you die. Great stuff. No form of Government, or leadership has helped. But you're right, man is good, and do not need God's guidance. Because the track record of the goodness of man is so outstanding!
Correct and neither you nor I are infallible. Why do you willingly accept a book as absolute truth when you yourself admit it was written by many men over a long period of time?
I have said, repeatedly, Biblical prophecy is the main reason I believe the Bible is the word of God. There is no way the writers could have maneuvered in any way shape or form the future events it speaks of. Impossible. Therefore, someone with intimate knowledge of future events must be behind the inspired writers words. Correct! Man is infallible, which what makes prophecy so outstanding! It cannot come from any infallible man.
So prove it. All you have is a book of stories, you have no proof, you have faith. Moses may have existed but no one can prove he spoke to a burning bush, split the red sea or wrote the word of God on a stone tablet.
No, But it has been proven he existed, led God's people through the wilderness and continued on. So since the events took place that God said would take place, why would I doubt that he spoke to Moses through a burning bush? You ever met George Washington? Nah, but you know he existed, and things took place to shape this country, therefore you have no doubts that what history says happened, did so.
More proof that the book is man made and should not be accepted as absolute truth.
Funny you should say this. tell me, which of the Bible writers takes credit for being the author of the Bible? I'll wait.
Really? So why is there no mention of electricity in the bible if it was meant to be timeless? Certainly god would have included a moral story of the implications of nuclear weapons...right? What about the moral implications of abortion, genetic engineering or the changing of the environment? If the book was indeed mmade by god and meant to be timeless certainly they would make mention of all these new moral and societal issues that the modern world grapples with. Instead we try jamming a round peg in a square hole. We apply stories in the bible to modern day events but they are not exact. Further the bible goes into specifics about events of that time.
The Bible does not need to mention WMD, or electricity to be timeless. His principles are timeless. If we loved our neighbor more than ourselves, would we even think to create WMD? Highly doubtful. Abortion is murder. He been said that was wrong. He gave mankind the job of looking after the earth with the first man. Mankind has failed to adhere to doing so properly. Man's fault, not Jehovah's.
So correction, the Bible is timeless, because it is just as relevant for humans today as it has always been.
The bible is clearly shown to be fallible when it gets the age of the earth wrong by a few billion years or asserts dinosaurs walked the earth with man. Before you say that God has a different concept on the length of a day or year remember there are countless other references to the length of a day in the bible that are accurate. Jesus rose after three literal days according to your beliefs so you cannot say that the bible uses some mysterious unit of measurement that in not quantifiable by us mere mortals.
http://www.watchtower.org/e/200609a/article_01.htm
You make arguments predicated on the teachings in a book you believe and state them as fact. You cannot argue the validity of the stories by using the stories as examples of record.
But I can prophecy! If the book says A) will happen in our time, and I look around and see it taking place, has the prophecy not then come true?
This did not address my point at all. In essence we do not have free will since god already knows exactly what we are going to do. Why would one need to walk the path to prove anything if god is all knowing?
You clearly are misguided on what free will actually is. Free will means that even though God wants us to love him, he gives us the choice to do otherwise, by letting it play out. And again, just because Jehovah has the ability to know and see all things, does not mean he always chooses to exercise that ability. Why can't God choose to live in the moment, so to speak? The being who could create Galaxies with a thought, cannot choose to not know what a person will or won't do? You buy that? I don't.
You can love who you want and chose to express that love how you see fit. The problem comes with the arrogance that your choice and beliefs are somehow the only correct or true beliefs. That arrogance and intolerance would certainly be frowned on by the very god you chose to believe in.
You are assuming that the man made book which you derive these standards from is somehow correct and divinely inspired. Your whole argument will always whittle down to faith because at its root there is no truth. There is no proof of anything other than what you wish to believe.
Again, tough to argue with men who did not even speak our language, or have the resources we have now, thousands of years ago, can pen events that have taken place in future times, long after they died, even down to our day. Utterly impossible for it to be staged. Their is no assumption. The Bible is the only book with such things, because God is the only one who is the future. Period.
Wrong. God is supposedly all knowing so why would he need you to pray in order to know what is in your heart? Praying is for humans...its a comfort food for the masses.
Jehovah used to speak to Adam, personally each day before sin. Since we are now sinners, that path has been blocked by God, until mankind is brought back to it's original state. But, he has given the provision of prayer for us to speak with him about anything we wish. Since he has done this out of love, it is fairly safe to say that he lovingly listens.You would never dismiss what your kids school day is like each day, because you may already know what they are gonna say each day, would you? That would qualify you as a jerk for sure. I highly doubt that the being who sent his only son to die for us, views our open communication to him as basic fodder for the masses. Just me.
To a supreme being there is no past or future...there just is. Even science has proven that time is not linear and is relative. The 3 day life span of a fruit fly may seem like a 100 years. God does not nbeed to pause, fast forward or rewind anything...he just knows everything all at once.
So it's all a test yet he already knows all the answers...
Correct. Jehovah is the only being in existence that is timeless. Even Jesus in heaven had an origin. But just because Jehovah has used his ability to foresee the future, does not mean one cannot come out on the winning side. he does not spoil it, and everyone has the opportunity to live. Up to use to seize it. Every living person on earth right now could gain life, but most will choose death. Again, not Jehovah's fault, but super intelligent mankind's.
We do not need a god or higher power to understand why stealing or adultery is wrong. Further you have no idea "how god is doing". I am not suffering...speak for yourself.
This was a relative statement. You are suffering. You're sick, you're going to die, and there is nothing you can do about it, apart from God. If seeing the world in it's current state does not make you suffer, if you're just like "I'm good" then I truly feel sorry for you. You've mastered the art of selfishness, in that case.
And people have seen the lochness moster, UFO's and bigfoot. Sorry but humans make shit up all the time. Just because a human wrote something 2000 years ago does not mean it is a correct portrayal of events. Why chose to believe that and not the story of Zeus and Hercules?
Don't forget to throw in half monkey, half man, human ancestors! Jesus existed, Zeus and Hercules, not so much. The bible deals with real people and real events. The people mentioned in there lived and died. History has helped to prove a lot of the Bible accounts accurately. Plus, the knockout punch, prophecy. Again.
The fact that you speak with such certitude as if you know exactly what heaven is like and why things are the way they are is pretty crazy. I am willing to admit, I don't know what happens. What I do know is that there is ZERO evidence to backup your claims.
I never been to heaven. Can't tell ya what it's like. But God's word tells us why the world is jacked up, why we die, how we got here, what's God's plan to fix it, and that mankind will one day live on this earth for eternity, under Jehovah's loving rule.
There is a people on earth that are foregoing their own endeavors to do God's will out of love for him, and Jehovah's word said this would happen thousands of years ago. This people reflects only one group, and though by the numbers they are a small band in comparison to other faiths, has pulled off the most intense preaching work in human history. There is not 3 groups, 4, 5. Only one, doing this. Funny, because Jehovah specifically said there would be a "People" singular. This is taking place right in front of you. Like it or not, there's your proof.
This misses the point. Nature is brutal and imperfect even when man is not involved. A perfect being would not fail at forming stars or galaxies. We are a tiny spec in a near infinite universe during a small blip in time yet your arrogance would suggest that the world around you was created by a supreme being just for us. We are nothing, we are fruitflies living in a fraction of a second. We are microscopic compared to stars that are thousands of times bigger than our sun. We are nothing in this universe and to suggest we are made in gods image is an insult to any higher organism that may be out in the universe.
Who said that all stars or galaxies were meant to be formed? who is to say maybe the ones that don't form may serve a purpose beyond our understanding? Oh, that's right, we're men. Imperfect, all knowing, human science says so. so it must be.
Yet, I am to believe that out of the chaos called by science "The Big Bang theory", somehow order came of it? That's not a fail, but because there are no explained answers by science why stars die, or galaxies don't form, means God failed? That's knee slap funny.
There are many living organisms on earth. No life found anywhere else. Why can't it just be that maybe the earth was prepared for life? I mean... IT"S OBVIOUS!!!!! Why does it have to be an anomaly? Stroke of luck? Why can't it be that, maybe God decided to start making life on the planets with earth? Why can't it be that he will put life on other planets? There is a such thing as a "start", correct? Why can't we be just that?
The bible says God is these things. Love, wisdom, power and justice. Human beings have the capacity to use each of the four main qualities of God. Hence, we are in his image.
Again, why would we have to prove anything to an all knowing being who simultaneously experiences everything at once?
From the man who told me I don't know how God is doing, how do you know he simultaneously experiences everything at once?
The irony of such a statement coming form someone who claims to know what "true" religion is and how best to have a relationship with god. What you don't understand you explain with faith and false certitude.
Simply put, what I speak of knowing, does not originate with me, but with he who IS knowing. Therefore it is truth, not based on my merits, but his.
How could they be around before Abraham? How could they bare witness to Jesus when he came to earth thousands of years after the old testament? How could they be here before the Jews who first prayed to the God of Abraham and created the OT? The old testament makes no mention of Jesus or JW. It even goes so far as to say when the messiah does come that the world ends. ...period. If you want to read the entire book and take it literally how could Jesus be the messiah if his coming did not bring forth the end times? The OT is clear on this.
Here is you're issue with understanding this. You are looking for an organized group, such as the Jews, and then Christians afterward. But really, a witness of Jehovah is a person who recognizes Jehovah as the supreme being, and worships him according to his righteousness. This is why in Hebrews chapters 11, Paul runs down a list of early worshipers of Jehovah, such as Abel, Enoch, Noah, etc. Why? Because they gave witness that Jehovah is the only true God. After he runs down the list of faithful servants of God in chapter 11, chapter 12 opens this way.
1 So, then, because we have
so great a cloud of witnesses surrounding us, let us also put off every weight and the sin that easily entangles us, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us,
Who are those people witnesses of? JEHOVAH, GOD!!! Therefore, that will make them, Jehovah's witnesses! By the way, even Jesus Christ said he was a Jehovah's witness! (Jn 17:6) The bible even calls him, the FAITHFUL AND TRUE WITNESS! Jesus is the truest Jehovah's witness in existence. And Jesus was around before any planet, galaxy, or star you can name.
Moral of the story here is, Jehovah's witnesses been around quite a long time, my friend.
Jehovah's Witnesses is a
restorationist,
[1] millenarian[2] Christian denomination.
[3][4][5] The religion reports worldwide membership of over 7 million adherents involved in
evangelism;
[6] they report convention attendance of over 12 million, and annual
Memorial attendance of over 18 million.
[7][8] They are directed by a
Governing Body of
elders which exercises authority on all doctrinal matters. Witnesses base their beliefs on the
Bible, and prefer their own literal, conservative translation, the
New World Translation of the Holy Scriptures.
[9][10] The group emerged from the
Bible Student movement,
[11] founded in the late
19th century by
Charles Taze Russell, with the formation of
Zion's Watch Tower Tract Society. Following a schism in the movement, the branch that maintained control of the Society underwent significant organizational changes, bringing its authority structure and methods of evangelism under centralized control.
[12][13] The name Jehovah's witnesses, based on Isaiah 43:10-12, was adopted in 1931.
Nope, you are making crap up. JW is a reltively new sect of Christianity. Christianity came several thousand years after Judiasim.
Sorry, can't make this stuff up. You posted a link that goes against your argument by the way, because if you would have read Isaiah 43:10-12, you would have seen Jehovah himself calling his people his witnesses, and why. Which then would have probably prevented a smart guy like you from posting and article that verifies the Bible's point, and smashes yours to bits.
If Jehovah called the Jews at the time his witnesses, why then do you defiantly stand there and say Jehovah's witnesses are new?
BTW...You completely dodged my point that homosexuality exists in nature and is not just a man made phenomenon.
I don't know why there is homosexuality in some animals. I don't pretend to touch subjects I'm clueless about. Only thing I will say is Jehovah knows. And though that does not work for you, suits me just fine. Simple for this reason. Animals cannot read. Jehovah sent his son to recover what Adam lost for humanity, not homosexual animals.
So I will stick with humans. Homosexuality is in opposition to how Jehovah says man should live. Just as drunkards, adulterers, liars, thieves and such. If you stick with humans, we can deal. Animals, I have no clue and really don't give 2 cent.