I don't believe in any other religions either. I am disgusted by hypocrites like those priests molesting kids. I am disgusted they aren't thrown in jail and get moved around to different dioceses.
No that is not the work of satan these dudes were just closet gays in the 70's when it was not ok to be a gay person out in the open. They thought god would save them from being gay but obviously it didn't.
Props to all the scientists/engineers/people with techinical backgrounds.
Ransom because his perfect life, brought back the right for Jehovah to once again bring mankind to perfection, no sickness or death, which is the wages of sin. Last Adam Because he replaced the first one, and eternal father because he will live eternally, and has bought eternity back for mankind, therefore, eternally our father in place of Adam, who should have been our eternal Father.
People have to die because they chose death instead of life. It's Jehovah's rules. He intends for man to live righteous. Man can choose to do so. He hates wickedness. He has the right to choose which people he wants to live on earth, and he chose righteous people. If you had the power to make the earth a peaceful place where humans do not get sick and die, would you? Surely you would. Well Jehovah plans to. And he will do it by removing all unruly tenants, the same way you might if you owned and apt building that some would keep clean, be model citizens, but others vandalize, commits atrocities and destroy your property. Which would you allow to stay? Rhetorical, I already know your answer.
what are you talkign about....tons of bad people live every day... I don't see Bernie Madoff dead yet and if there is anyone that should be publicly murdered it is him.
Mother Teresa did not live 1000 years. Nor did Gandhi. Nor did any pope. Nor do priests....SO every single of of these people are EVIL?!?!?? GTFO
A much more rational explanation is that humans have a lifespan....celluar reproduction slows down in old age. Our DNA is hard coded to only live so many years. Science has prolonged human life by removing things like disease, but at the end of the day people can't escape death because of things like cancer and heart disease and a slew of otehr medical conditions we see more frequently because people just live longer now as opposed to 50 years ago.
Magic Johnson got the beast and he is still alive. By your definition he violated a commandment....instead of worrying about following commandments he was getting it in with strippers (or isiah thomas).
In the bible, oftentimes for no apparent reason, e.g., the death-plagues showered on all of Egypt (the result of God's geopolitical anger with one person: the Pharaoh). Why punish innocent people, because of one person's actions? To force that person to allow the Jews out of Egypt? Well, I would assume an all-powerful being could get them out, without slaughtering all of a nation's first-born children.
My other point is in relation to the God of Israel's supposed powers. Why do we not see his power today? I could just as well believe in Zeus or Odin, if demonstration of power is what I am to go by as proof of a deity's existence. Is it wrong to ask for some sort of evidence? Something to inspire faith in the "Lord?" If it is, I am guilty as charged: I cannot believe in Krishna, Jesus, Jehovah, Ahura Mazda, Chango, or any other diety, without proof. And, even if I see proof, I still do not see the need to read a bunch of stale stories and mull over the same crap.
Furthermore, you should look up the word righteousness. It does not equate with following any sort of religion. It entails living a moral life. One can definitely follow a religious teacher and be devoid of morality and spirituality, your church, amongst others, has proven this to be the case. I am a moral, spiritual person, but I am not affiliated with any religion.
My final point relates to evil. If your God is the supreme being, creator of all, then GWB must be God, because he created two wars: in Afghanistan and in Iraq. You must be God, because you created this thread. In other words, creation does not make you God. And where is God's rule on Earth? If he is not ruling Earth, he is not supreme, at least not on Earth. Maybe he is supreme on mars.
And the bible, no matter how you put it, is the word of man. The gospels are stories about Jesus. In fact, most of the bible are stories about different characters. Some of the other books are prophecies. In either case, we are receiving a product shaped by the culture, prejudices, attachments, likes and dislikes of a human being.
K4L, I am not singling JWs out, but I think this would be good for you, amongst many other misguided, hopefully well-intentioned, people to read.
“You will not be punished for your anger, you will be punished by your anger.”
--> What does anger, wrath truly do to a being, be it a God or an insect? Is he or she truly free, good, humble, if enraged?
“What is evil? Killing is evil, lying is evil, slandering is evil, abuse is evil, gossip is evil: envy is evil, hatred is evil, to cling to false doctrine is evil; all these things are evil. And what is the root of evil? Desire is the root of evil, illusion is the root of evil.”
--> Do you see how your desire, for salvation, for position within Jehovah's hierarchy, deludes and binds you? Do you see the evil of C.T. Russel's gossip and slander of other groups? Do you perceive the vicious cycle it produces, the narcotic effect it has? We are "God's people," implying that others are not, which implies superiority.
"The world is full of evil and sorrow, because it is full of lust.
Men go astray because they think that delusion is better than truth.
Rather than truth they follow error,
which is pleasant to look at in the beginning
but in the end causes anxiety, tribulation, and misery."
--> Do you follow what fulfills your lust: salvation and permanency of the self, or what selflessly serves truth and goodness? Does your practice breed peace, freedom and joy or anxiety and misery (Armageddon, hell, etc.)? Is your righteousness in existence for its own good, or for the good of your salvation? What are the implications of either?
-The Buddha, with commentary by OGKF
Things you fail to mention: The fact that whichever of the Egyptians took heed that Jehovah was the true God was spared of all malice from the plagues, and even when the Jews left, whichever Egyptians that wanted to leave with them, went as well. Jehovah is lacks even an ounce of unrighteousness. Anything he does exibits justice.
I mean, I don't know how else to put it to you. Jehovah said in Isaiah, in the end time he would take out a people made of all nations for his name, who learn his ways and live them, and will learn war no more. :CHECK: That has happened.
Jesus said in mat 28:14 before the end comes, while we're in the time of the end, the good news of God's Kingdom had to be preached in the entire inhabited earth. :Check: That is happening. Jehovah's people by far and away are doing the most organized and effective preaching work in human history, as should be expected, because Jehovah wants every person with ample opportunity to have a chance to know him. Only way to do that is by teaching others about him.
Instead of shooting it down, it may do you a bit of good to wonder why only one group of people can attribute these scriptures to them.
And have you not heard? Jehovah never planned to rule on earth, it is, after all, called the KINGDOM OF THE HEAVENS. Jesus, as his King will rule over the earth from his heavenly post, to restore it the way Jehovah intended it to be. In fact, we know this to be a certainty, because that Kingdom already has it's subjects on earth! Already, Jehovah's government has trumped the world governments. How so? Well Jehovah has somehow managed to get people from all nations to come together united in worship, living morally clean lives, in love and compassion for others, while remaining peaceful towards each other. That is the entire goal of the U.N. and they will never get that done. No other entity on earth has accomplished the form of love, peace and unity that Jehovah has for his people. If you're being honest, you'd be hard pressed to disagree.
Jesus said once: Mat 7:
13 “Go in through the narrow gate; because broad and spacious is the road leading off into destruction, and many are the ones going in through it; 14 whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.
Not many will want to travel that narrow road, but that is where life is, according to the greatest man who ever lived. How do you get there, according to this man? Mat 7:21 “Not everyone saying to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter into the kingdom of the heavens, but the one doing the will of my Father who is in the heavens will.
Jehovah is Jesus father, doing his will will gain you life. That simple.
The Buddha, did not even believe in a God, yet millions chant to a statue of a fat almost naked man with beads, as if he were in fact a God. Tell me, how does chanting, praying, meditating or whatever to a statue help someone's spirituality? I don't see any truth in lighting incense and chanting to a man made statue.
"No other entity on earth has accomplished the form of love, peace and unity that Jehovah has for his people. If you're being honest, you'd be hard pressed to disagree."
That ******* killed all the dinosaurs.
That ******* took a giant crap on Jobes life all so he can be a supreme being.
The bible promotes slavery.
It is a messed up book.
Also, it serves as notice to all mankind who is really behind the peril the world faces, if one is observant that is. Are you observant?
And Of course religious egotism has nothing to do with you actually being superior, you have no superiority over me, I have none over you, in actuality.
It is truly a matter of your organization, and very likely you, feeling spiritually superior, in spite of the falsity of this. If you did not, why would you put such an emphasis on paradise earth and 144,000? If you did not, why say that Jehovah is "the only true God?" Any free thinker can see the d!ck measuring contest involved with doing this.
I guess you respond to fear, K4L, while I laugh in its face. I cannot be fooled by these carrot and stick games. I do what is right because it is right, because I care about my effect on others, not because it will reward me.
I am sure that, if you were raised in a different society, where they worship a tree, you would follow the tree God, as an adult, as long as you were properly threatened and told you could "gain life," by doing so.
Did you know that one of the main teachings of The Enlightened One is the Middle Path: not to do too much of anything, including eating food to excess? Why would he be fat? None of the Buddhist texts say he was fat, nude or bald.
My signature shows a historically-based picture of the Buddha: he was slim, of Indian descent, tall, had "golden skin," Black, long, curly hair and wore an orange robe, which is why Buddhist monks do as well.
The fat man you speak of is a Chinese deity, depicted as a Buddhist monk, named Hotei, who sits in the lotus (meditation) position. He is not mentioned in Buddhist texts and is insignificant within Buddhism. Chinese people rub his belly for luck and depict him as fat because of their historical idealization of fat people. In China, Buddhism is often combined with their local religions, kind of like Voodoo with Christianity.
As for the benefits of meditation, which have nothing to do with statues, it helps to clear the mind, give one a feeling of peace, regeneration, freedom compassion and joy. Below is a link to a Yoga (Hindu) meditation. I am sure that you won't use it, because of its connections to Satan.
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Amongst Westerners new to Buddhism, Budai (Hotei) is often confused with the historical Buddha, Siddhartha Gautama. However, the two are visually very distinct. Gautama is commonly depicted as being tall and slender in appearance (although since no images of him from his lifetime exist, this depiction of him is unverifiable and possibly idealized); Budai is short and overweight. (Buddha means "one who has achieved a state of perfect enlightenment" and there are several people who have been given the title.)
And the Jews were his people, "at the time." I guess when it came time to convert Greeks and Romans, he changed from being the tribal God of the Jews to the God of the known world. Makes sense.
And let me get this right. So... if, in exodus, an Egyptian parent did not believe in the Jewish tribal God, if one is to believe the bible, their first born was to die. You truly agree with that, "it had to be done?" If you do, I cannot see how you could ever speak of compassion or love. I could not see how such a person would even know what it is to be moved by another being's suffering.
1 : desire to cause pain, injury, or distress to another
2 : intent to commit an unlawful act or cause harm without legal justification or excuse
Oh, and again, what about the children? You cannot defend this evil deed, committed by the God of the Jews, against children, can you? Or do you think slaughtering newborns, for what the country's ruler has done, a just thing?
Moreover, the only reason you do not believe in war is because you are instructed in that regard. Or, is it a mere coincidence that the Russell Witnesses governing body is against war and that you are also against it? Too easy. By the way, violence does not have to be physical. The very superiority your organization exudes breeds hatred, division and violence. You just see the fruits of it, while others engage in it.
And, oftentimes, Russell's Witnesses face inspire the wrath of their local govt, as was the case with a group of African JWs who were persecuted in the 70's, for refusing to buy a government ID, under the guidance of the governing body. When violence came upon them, the governing body, puffed their chests out and moved forward with their decision to tell these people to not buy an ID card.
So everyone who does not believe in Jesus according to the writings of Charles Tayes Russell: Miracle Wheat Salesman, buried under a pyramid, is immoral? If you wish not to be a hypocrite, I suggest you go door to door telling people what you told me: that they are immoral for not believing in Charles T. Russell. I am sure you will not, because it will stop you from reaching your monthly quota of added sheep and also force you to recognize the truly hateful, immoral and haughty nature of your practice.
Like the Buddha says, we all create. The world is evil because we are, it is becoming desensitized because we are. It is not sick because of Satan, and it can be good for all living beings if we decide to allow it to be. This is real, it can be understood and live.
Your explanations are mere sophistry and the result of a threat to your religious ego, which you sense in my person. I will meditate for your salvation.
And, as LJ recently stated, your organization is fraught with sex abuse scandals. This shows us that you are not transformed by being a Russell's Witness: your members are still sexually deviant, insensitive, voraciously self-centered and dishonest. This makes you the same, if not worst, as the statue-worshipers your cult build's its members self esteem by attacking.
This is who you worship.
Finally the day arrived, October 1, 1914, and on the morning of that day Charles T. Russell as president of the Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society announced to the headquarters staff of workers in Brooklyn, New York: “The Gentile Times have ended and their kings have had their day.”-Charles Taze Russell
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When 1914 passed, they changed their prediction; 1914 became the year that Jesus "invisibly" began his rule.
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"we consider it an established truth that the final end of the kingdoms of this world, and the full establishment of the Kingdom of God, will be accomplished by the end of A.D. 1914" (1889). 3 -Charles Taze Russell
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In 1923, a Watchtower article predicted
"Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the scriptures. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge"
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1941-Fall: The world is "...in the remaining months before Armageddon."
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"And as for a man or woman whom there proves to be a mediumistic spirit or spirit of prediction, they shall be put to death without fail. They should pelt them to death with stones. Their own blood is upon them."-New World Translation
Last edited by abcd; Apr 10, 2010 at 01:52.
So, take you D!ck contest somewhere else.
[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]Thank you for posting this classic piece of fear, written for (he needs people to write for him) the God of Israel, threatening the critical thinker with wrath.
I guess you respond to fear, K4L, while I laugh in its face. I cannot be fooled by these carrot and stick games. I do what is right because it is right, because I care about my effect on others, not because it will reward me.[quote]
First, why scoff at the fact the Jehovah used man to write for him? Lemme quickly just tell you how much smarter than he is than you. If, for instance, He would have magically made the book appear, would you believe that instead? Probably not. Makes better sense to have many men, in different era's write it, along with prophetic word, that those truly seeking God, will have no issue making sense of, correct? Have you ever pondered what the pro's would be in allowing men to write the book? I doubt you have, because you are sooooooo smart already! What would be the need?
Secondly, all things I do right, I do because it is what Jehovah would do. The reward is just a bonus. And again, how silly are you at scoffing at a person who wants to live forever in a paradise, in love and peace? Wouldn't you mind being there? Maybe not!
[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]Everything is about gain, with you. Again, further demonstration of your selfish reason for following the God of the Jews.
I am sure that, if you were raised in a different society, where they worship a tree, you would follow the tree God, as an adult, as long as you were properly threatened and told you could "gain life," by doing so.[quote] You're so wrong about this, if it weren't a serious matter, I'd piss myself from laughter.
JW's worship Jehovah due to the abundance of truth. Everything else is a collosal fail in comparison. Just the way it is. Nothing else has logical explanations of why people suffer, where are the dead, is this what God purposed, to name a few. You, Mr. truth! You explain these things better, and I'll be glad to listen! Or, I'll go this tree for answers, but last i checked, they don't talk. Or write.
[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]The Buddha believes Gods exist, but he deems developing ourselves morally and spiritually, as opposed to speculation into that which is unknowable, as the correct form of development.[quote] So basically, yea, God is there, but we can't know him, so let's do this apart from God? Yup, that's eerily similar to what Satan implied to Adam and Eve... BE LIKE GOD (meaning, you then would not need him) gotcha.
[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]There is no brotherhood, with the Russell's Witnesses organization, there is selfhood. If you are like the next man, then you and he are brothers. This is the same amongst the witnesses and many other religions. True brotherhood means being able to call the Hindu a brother, and even the animals, without the disdain and feeling of superiority that I can tell is in your heart.[quote] This is getting better and better. You read hearts now. Jehovah said only he can do that. Maybe it's all that meditation and freedom you get into.
You know nothing of JW if you think we don't consider all men our brothers. However, there is a difference in that vs a brotherhood in spirituality. Technically, Jesus and Satan are brothers. But they do not serve the same God, so they are not in a spiritual brotherhood. There is a difference. I don't hate anyone for believing what they wish. But it does not make it true because they follow it. I believe the bible based on a lot of things that I can see, or have read, take place. The Buddha, at best, is a philosopher on a quest for spirituality. And that is the bottom line. Anyone can have a philosophy. But only one book in existence has accurate prophetic word. I choose to ride with that.
[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]I don't know if either existed. It really does not matter if the Buddha did or did not, what interests me (and him) is that I can benefit from his wisdom, compassion, example and ability to defeat selfishness, greed and suffering in himself and others. He came to save the world NOW, not in the future, and, though I do not agree with all of his teachings, the freedom and compassion with which he acted and taught will only blossom and spread. His teachings are life-changing and part of the teachings that a truly spiritual person should study.[quote] I see. It's cool you feel you can benefit from his wisdom, compassion, etc. But lemme ask you this, do you feel that he was a greater example of these things than Jesus? I mean, seriously, who was more wise as a man than Jesus Christ! Who is more compassionate than the man who touched a leper to heal him? If the Buddha was all these things, than Jesus was eons more so. So why do you scoff at people who strive to be like Jesus?
And again, you're wrong. Jehovah is saving the world now. Jehovah and Jesus have already brought peace on earth. You're just not paying attn.
[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]So... Jehovah had to demonstrate his existence through wrath, by making people ill and killing them? Would parting the seas not suffice? I guess not.[quote] never once have you mentioned the killing of all firstborns of Jews? The sheer fact of Moses surviving the purge should show there is a Jehovah. And no, he tried to show it plenty of times to Pharoah. Hard heartedness. And again, these people were scoffing at Jehovah, like the people of today are, like you are. They did this when Jehovah told Noah it would flood. Until...... IT RAINED! People will do this until Jehovah cleans up the mess. However, when ever he has brought it on, then the people had to know there was a Jehovah.
I say that to say this. I hope you do explore more, and possibly get to know Jehovah for who he is. No amount of philosophy, meditation, money, prestige, good looks, will do any good when he brings the rain again. And before you say why does he wanna do that, remember that he being creator of the earth, effectively makes him the landlord. He has the right to choose what type of tenants he wants on his property.
[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]And the Jews were his people, "at the time." I guess when it came time to convert Greeks and Romans, he changed from being the tribal God of the Jews to the God of the known world. Makes sense.[quote] Again, why not ponder for answers that make sense instead of scoffing? First, he chose the line of Abraham, which then became the Jews, So that he can act on behalf of a people, to help differentiate the True God, from false (Example, Egytpian Gods collosal fail) And to have the Messiah born in a strict bloodline, for genealogical purposes. This way, no one can falsely claim to be the Messiah. (Which is why Jews as a whole have stopped looking for theirs, because one would have to fit a strict criteria to be that person, and only Jesus has)
Secondly, Jehovah always had intentions of opening the way to him to everyone. Which is the reason why Jesus said the Good news of the Kingdon is to be preached in the entire inhabited earth, and not to just a section. Just because Jehovah started with the Jews, does not mean that he is just their God. HE IS GOD TO EVERYONE! But the Jews at the time were chosen to show on their behalf they serve the true God. There was false worship, and Jehovah acting on behalf of the jews brought many proselytes into true worship.
The Jews were no longer, as a whole, serving Jehovah acceptably, so he rejected them, and started a new nation after his son died. The birth of Christianity. This was exibited by the fact that Jehovah was working miracles on behalf of the Christians, to show the Jewish nation that he was behind Christianity now, and if they wanted to continue to serve him acceptably, they would have to convert. Some did, most didn't. Either way, it was time for the truth to spread abroad, and for the world to know Jehovah.
[quote=OGKnickfan;119799]And let me get this right. So... if, in exodus, an Egyptian parent did not believe in the Jewish tribal God, if one is to believe the bible, their first born was to die. You truly agree with that, "it had to be done?" If you do, I cannot see how you could ever speak of compassion or love. I could not see how such a person would even know what it is to be moved by another being's suffering.[quote] Jehovah had strict instructions that were to be followed. Whoever did not have the blood posted on their doorpost, would be in a lot of trouble. In order to do that, one would have to believe that Jehovah exists, and be smart enough to follow his instructions. I will never question Jehovah's motives, because all his ways are just. Just because you cannot see it, does not mean he is any less just. So, think what you will, you were going to do so anyways!
I know what the Jews believe, does not make it true.
I'll name a few. To establish true worship. In a world clouded by lies, true worship is to serve as the light of the world.
The messiah. Jesus needed to be born to redeem the sins of mankind and fulfill his purpose.
Pharoah's hard heartedness. Jehovah reads hearts (You too apparently) So he pretty much knew what level he would have to go to for Pharoah to let his people go. Jehovah never abuses his power, so he did exactly what was called for. And since there is a thing called the resurrection hope, I'm pretty sure Jehovah has those kids in mind for a do-over. Did it suck it had to happen? Of course! So does a lot of things about this life. Good thing is, Jehovah is the one who can fix it. Bank on it.
So don't obey! Do you're own thing. Just don't complain about the consequences. And don't shoot down those who wish to obey. I surely won't shoot you down for choosing to live apart from Jehovah. It's your right!
And no one obeys Jehovah because of the reward alone. It's the abundance of truth, and his love that attracts people him him and vice versa.
Maybe the Quakers do follow non violence. But the reason why Isaiah 2:2-4 does not apply to them should be obvious. They do not worship Jehovah! And that passage makes it one of the stipulations! In fact, if someone mentions the name Jehovah, most people are going to think of which religious group right off the bat? That should tell you who that passage is meant for.
The devil knows What the truth is, and he does a bang up job of keeping the majority of people blinded to it.
And no, why feel cheap about speaking the truth? Are their not other Buddhists who would repeat the same things as you? Do you feel cheap Mr. Truth?