View Poll Results: Do you support Mike D'antoni as our coach?

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Thread: LETS END IT NOW: Mike D'antoni Edition

  1. #1
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Default LETS END IT NOW: Mike D'antoni Edition

    We once had a thread like this for Stephon Starbury, now its Antoni's turn.

    This topic seems to be all over the place on this board, so lets get all the D'antoni supporters, and all the Anti-Antoni posters and go head to head

    I dont support him. I think his 4 50 win seasons in Phoenix is overrated, Steve nash is basically like having a coach on the court..at least on offense. Those teams had a lot of talent. They did win 50+ games with Amare out in a tough western conference, thats probably the best way to counter my argument but at the same time that was when Steve Nash was at his best. That was when he was the MVP, and he still had alotta talent alongside him.

    I do think his ability to coach defense is more then questionable, although in phoenix the suns weren't as bad as some people say they were defensively...they did average more possessions then most of the other teams, possibly all of them. Im still not impressed, and his substitution patterns/decision making is more then suspect as well. He has a poor ability to communicate with his players and his behavior is embarrassing at times.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    I really don't want to reiterate all my previous points nor am I a huge Dant supporter. What I am is pragmatic...I see that people are unfairly blaming Dant for our teams woes and distorting his record. Before we get into a long debate lets post the guys resume...shall we?

    Player career

    After a college career at [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], D'Antoni was drafted by the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in the 2nd round of the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. He was all-NBA Rookie Second Team choice for 1974. After 3 seasons for the Kings (1973-1976), he played for the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] of the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in 1976, and for the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] (again in the NBA) in 1977. His Spurs career lasted just two games before he found an opportunity to play successfully overseas.
    D'Antoni was then called by the Italian team of [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], starting a career which saw him become the club's all-time leading scorer. He was voted the league’s top point guard of all time in 1990 and he paced his team to five Italian League titles, two [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] titles, two Cups of Italy, one [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and one Intercontinental Cup. Being of Italian origin, D'Antoni was also selected to play on the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] for the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    D'Antoni's nickname in Europe was [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] for his ability in stealing balls from other players.




    Coaching career

    [[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] Italy

    D’Antoni began his career as head coach for his most loyal club, Milan: here he remained for four seasons, from 1990 to 1994, leading the club to the 1992 [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Final Four and 1993 [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. He was then chosen to coach [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], another major Italian basketball club. During his tenure (1994–1997), the team captured the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and Coppa Italia (in 1995) and won the domestic league title in 1996–97. Coach D’Antoni's Italian teams went to the playoffs each season, and he was twice voted the league’s Coach of the Year. In 2001, D'Antoni returned to Italy for a second stint as the coach of Benetton Treviso. In his one season back in Europe, he led the team to a 28–8 record, a league championship and [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] Final Four, coaching a team filled with many former NBA stars.
    [[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] Early NBA

    The first NBA coaching job held by D'Antoni was with the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] as the club’s director of player personnel. He also did some broadcasting work with [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] during that season. The next year, he became Nuggets head coach, but was fired after a poor performance during the strike-shortened 1998-99 season. D'Antoni then went on to become a scout for San Antonio Spurs during the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]. He was also an assistant for the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] in [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    [[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] Phoenix Suns

    In 2002, he made his return to the NBA as a Phoenix Suns assistant. In 2003, D'Antoni was hired with 61 games left in the season as the head coach of the Phoenix Suns<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</sup> and, despite leading the team to a poor record in the second half of the year, he received a vote of confidence for producing inspired play from an injury riddled team. The next season, D'Antoni helped the team to acquire [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], which began an incredible turnaround for the franchise. After the addition of Nash, the D'Antoni-coached Suns won fifty or more games in four consecutive seasons. D'Antoni won the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] during his first full season with the Suns. His style, dubbed "Seven Seconds or Less", was described in a [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].
    [[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] Team USA

    D'Antoni was selected to the coaching staff for the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] squad under head coach [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] and participated in the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ], winning a bronze medal.<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</sup>. Pundits believe his familiarity with the three-point shot and the zone defense, hallmarks of the international game, will be valuable assets to the team.
    D'Antoni has dual citizenship in the United States and Italy: this made him the first Italian ever to lead an [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] team. He is fluent in both English and Italian.
    [[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]] New York Knicks


    D'Antoni coaching the New York Knicks in 2009.


    As of May 5, 2008, D'Antoni was told that he was free to speak with other teams about a coaching job next season, although [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] requested he stay with the Suns.<sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</sup> On May 9, D'Antoni was made an offer by the [Only registered and activated users can see links. ].<sup id="cite_ref-4" class="reference">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</sup> The next day, D'Antoni accepted the 4 year, $24 million offer and became the Knicks' head coach. <sup id="cite_ref-D.27Antoni_accepts_Knicks_0-1" class="reference">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</sup><sup id="cite_ref-5" class="reference">[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]</sup> His Knicks career has not yet been as successful as his time with the Suns, but the Knicks have not been expected to contend until at least the 2010-11 campaign, when they are hoping to use their considerable [Only registered and activated users can see links. ] space to sign top flight free agents.

  3. #3
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Some notable highlights:

    Best Euro PG of all time
    3 time Coach of the Year across two different leagues.
    Multiple titles as a player and a coach
    Olympic Gold Medal
    4 consecutive 50+ win seasons including back to back 60 wins
    Known in Europe as Arsène Lupin for his ability to DEFEND and make steals

    Is Dant a defensive genius? Nope but that does not mean he can't teach defense nor that he doesn't understand it's importance.

    MSG makes a great point about Nash on the Suns. Who is the Knicks Nash? Short answer...we don't have one. We do not have a number one option on our team and keep shedding salary which leads to a disruption in chemistry and a loss of talent. In the NBA you need stars that can carry you each and every night. Judging Dan't on his two years with the Knicks during a rebuilding phase while ignoring his entire career which includes championship titles is just wrong.

    Dant may end up a disappointment but until he has the players and team to compete and play his style of ball I will reserve my judgment and deffer to his long exemplary career.

  4. #4
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Some notable highlights:

    Best Euro PG of all time
    3 time Coach of the Year across two different leagues.
    Multiple titles as a player and a coach
    Olympic Gold Medal
    4 consecutive 50+ win seasons including back to back 60 wins
    Known in Europe as Arsène Lupin for his ability to DEFEND and make steals

    Is Dant a defensive genius? Nope but that does not mean he can't teach defense nor that he understands it's importance.

    MSG makes a great point about Nash on the Suns. Who is the Knicks Nash? Short answer...we don't have one. We do not have a number one option on our team and keep shedding salary which leads to a disruption in chemistry and a loss of talent. In the NBA you need stars that can carry you each and every night. Judging Dan't on his two years with the Knicks during a rebuilding phase while ignoring his entire career which includes championship titles is just wrong.

    Dant may end up a disappointment but until he has the players and team to compete and play his style of ball I will reserve my judgment and deffer to his long exemplary career.
    Is he still considered the best euro point guard ever now? The game was different when he played and he didnt even play in the NBA. Euro's are not known for their defense, I probably coulda been like Ron Artest if I played back then in a Euro league. I could just imagine what it would be like then if some of these Euro's are as soft as they are now...

    His basketball career doesnt really have any significance to me, aside from what I already said there have been good basketball players that suck as coaches.

    D'antoni had a great run in phoenix, but I always thought his teams failed to play defense at the level they were capable of. And again, I do realize that they weren't as bad as some say they were, but they had some good defenders over the years

    Shawn Marion
    Q-Rich
    Joe Johnson
    Raja Bell
    Kurt Thomas

    I realize thats not exactly an all nba 1st team group but his teams gave up between 102 and 104 points I think almost every year he coached them and I believe the players he had were capable of playing better defense then that despite the Suns opponents averaging more possessions them most other teams. I think his formula is effective during the regular season as we saw with the Suns, but its not a good formula for the playoffs when other teams step up their defense...hence the reason why they lost to the Spurs time and time again. The Spurs were able to get more stops then the Suns, playing great defense was very routine for them.

    Im not convinced that he can teach defense, but if we sign someone that will be a leader for the whole team on defense (similar to what bumston has with garnsoft, Denver with Kmart) then we might still be aright. I dont think D'antoni is a bad coach...but i dont think hes what they hype him up to be. We obviously weren't going anywhere this year, so i woulda liked to have seen some of the young players get more minutes. I would not had picked him if I was Walsh.

  5. #5
    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    Is he still considered the best euro point guard ever now? The game was different when he played and he didnt even play in the NBA. Euro's are not known for their defense, I probably coulda been like Ron Artest if I played back then in a Euro league. I could just imagine what it would be like then if some of these Euro's are as soft as they are now...

    His basketball career doesnt really have any significance to me, aside from what I already said there have been good basketball players that suck as coaches.

    D'antoni had a great run in phoenix, but I always thought his teams failed to play defense at the level they were capable of. And again, I do realize that they weren't as bad as some say they were, but they had some good defenders over the years

    Shawn Marion
    Q-Rich
    Joe Johnson
    Raja Bell
    Kurt Thomas

    I realize thats not exactly an all nba 1st team group but his teams gave up between 102 and 104 points I think almost every year he coached them and I believe the players he had were capable of playing better defense then that despite the Suns opponents averaging more possessions them most other teams. I think his formula is effective during the regular season as we saw with the Suns, but its not a good formula for the playoffs when other teams step up their defense...hence the reason why they lost to the Spurs time and time again. The Spurs were able to get more stops then the Suns, playing great defense was very routine for them.

    Im not convinced that he can teach defense, but if we sign someone that will be a leader for the whole team on defense (similar to what bumston has with garnsoft, Denver with Kmart) then we might still be aright. I dont think D'antoni is a bad coach...but i dont think hes what they hype him up to be. We obviously weren't going anywhere this year, so i woulda liked to have seen some of the young players get more minutes. I would not had picked him if I was Walsh.
    The Suns are still a crappy defensive team...3rd worst in points allowed to be precise. The Knicks hold opponents to less points per game then the Suns!

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    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    The Suns are still a crappy defensive team...3rd worst in points allowed to be precise. The Knicks hold opponents to less points per game then the Suns!
    Yea that really is sad...thats why although Amare has been a beast on offense, and hes been alotta fun to watch (no homo), i dont think he should get signed to a max. Everyone knows Channing Frye is softer then cottonelle, but Amare has the athleticism and strength to make a difference...hes just not grimey enough. Nash continues to get worse too, he used to at least take some offensive fouls but theres no hope for him anymore. He still makes a big impact on offense, however. He could single handedly raise the value of any player on our team.

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    Hannibal Lecter TR1LL10N's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by MSGKnickz33
    Yea that really is sad...thats why although Amare has been a beast on offense, and hes been alotta fun to watch (no homo), i dont think he should get signed to a max. Everyone knows Channing Frye is softer then cottonelle, but Amare has the athleticism and strength to make a difference...hes just not grimey enough. Nash continues to get worse too, he used to at least take some offensive fouls but theres no hope for him anymore. He still makes a big impact on offense, however. He could single handedly raise the value of any player on our team.
    This is why judging the SUns defense under Dant isn't worth much. Had it been the coach or system and not the players, they would have seen a marked turnaround once Dant was gone. For the love of god how could they be worse then the Knicks? (under Dant BTW)

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Everyone should also know by now that I never supported his hiring and still don't like his coaching.

    Every coach in the league is at least qualified, meaning they know basic X's and O's. Then you have coaches that see beyond that and understand player personnel and maximizing talent. This could either be done by being a good communicator, teacher, having a great staff or superb knowledge of the game.

    Regardless of the players you have to work with, if you make smart decisions as a coach then you will not be called into question even if you are fired. (See Scott Skiles) The problem with Dantoni is despite the fact that we all know the team was a long shot to make the playoffs, we still expected a better showing this season. Walsh even said he expected this team to be better. Dantoni has made some very confusing and idiotic decisions during the season. Such as:

    1. Starting the season with almost everyone living behind the 3pt line. I don't care if he adjusted this shortly after, he should have known this wasn't the team for that type of play during preseason.

    2. Knowing immediately that the team lacked an inside presence and refused to insert Milicic for relief. Sure Darko is an underachiever but the one thing he can provide for you is defense on the block. (something the team needed)

    3. DNPing Nate for so long for personal reasons. It was ok to bench Nate but for nearly a month was ridiculous. Five games would have gotten the point across just the same.

    4. Hughes was a big reason why the team picked up in January. He got more playing time and really showcased his on-ball defense. Hughes gets hurt, comes back and loses his spot in the rotation even when the team was hurting defensively. I don't care Hughes was a bad shooter. As a coach you let him know what his primary role is on the court and everything should be fine.

    5. Not signing a better PG and reasoning that the development of the young players were more important and then proceeding to load up on the DNPs.

    6. Failing to understand offensive/defensive subbing patterns on numerous occasions.

    7. Constantly failing to drawing up a decent last second play during a timeout. (This is why I question Boozers comments)

    8. Allowing Gallo to be a spot 3pt shooter instead of showing him that at his height he could be even more dangerous as a mid-range and low post threat as well.

    9. Playing Bender as a 3pt shooter instead of using his 7ft length as an interior presence. Also, playing him over Hill. (Disrespect)

    10. Calling Hill a "bad rookie"

    11. Always putting the blame on the players and using the words "fight" and "energy"

    12. Loving Duhon until it was too late to save the season.

    13. Having more plays in his book besides the usual pick and roll with Duhon and Lee (Once again I question Boozer's comments)

    14. Using a 7-8 man rotation (even during back to back games) when the team needed more healthy bodies to pull out wins.

    I could go on but I'll stop here. At the very least this team could have been slightly better defensively if used better. That could have gotten us a few more wins. In PHX we saw a fun team with explosive offense and they looked good doing it. Easy for Dantoni. Well now that he has to actually coach people will start to look at his methods and strategy and how he uses his players. Nash was the catalyst for that team and I believe Dantoni had a horrible record in games where Nash didn't play.

    For me its all about ability as a coach. I know the team sucks BUT I still expect smart coaching moves and if that happens then I'll give credit. For now all I see is overrated or in the words of Kiaman "Celebrity Coach".

    Edit: It doesn't matter if the team wasn't expected to conted until 2010-11, you still have to coach basketball.

  9. #9
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    This is why judging the SUns defense under Dant isn't worth much. Had it been the coach or system and not the players, they would have seen a marked turnaround once Dant was gone. For the love of god how could they be worse then the Knicks? (under Dant BTW)
    Well i dont think they have as good of defensive players now as they did then. I knew they would no longer be a WCF team once Marion got traded. and LMAO at steve Kerr "IF this doesnt work I'm an idiot." He actually thought trading Marion for Snack O'meal would get them a championship

    And they had the other players i listed that could play defense, but Marion is the biggest name of all...He used to do all the dirty work for Amare. I got a good question, who's worse at defense? Lee or Amare?

    Im gonna go with Lee but both of them are close to useless

  10. #10
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Everyone should also know by now that I never supported his hiring and still don't like his coaching.

    Every coach in the league is at least qualified, meaning they know basic X's and O's. Then you have coaches that see beyond that and understand player personnel and maximizing talent. This could either be done by being a good communicator, teacher, having a great staff or superb knowledge of the game.

    Regardless of the players you have to work with, if you make smart decisions as a coach then you will not be called into question even if you are fired. (See Scott Skiles) The problem with Dantoni is despite the fact that we all know the team was a long shot to make the playoffs, we still expected a better showing this season. Walsh even said he expected this team to be better. Dantoni has made some very confusing and idiotic decisions during the season. Such as:

    1. Starting the season with almost everyone living behind the 3pt line. I don't care if he adjusted this shortly after, he should have known this wasn't the team for that type of play during preseason.

    2. Knowing immediately that the team lacked an inside presence and refused to insert Milicic for relief. Sure Darko is an underachiever but the one thing he can provide for you is defense on the block. (something the team needed)

    3. DNPing Nate for so long for personal reasons. It was ok to bench Nate but for nearly a month was ridiculous. Five games would have gotten the point across just the same.

    4. Hughes was a big reason why the team picked up in January. He got more playing time and really showcased his on-ball defense. Hughes gets hurt, comes back and loses his spot in the rotation even when the team was hurting defensively. I don't care Hughes was a bad shooter. As a coach you let him know what his primary role is on the court and everything should be fine.

    5. Not signing a better PG and reasoning that the development of the young players were more important and then proceeding to load up on the DNPs.

    6. Failing to understand offensive/defensive subbing patterns on numerous occasions.

    7. Constantly failing to drawing up a decent last second play during a timeout. (This is why I question Boozers comments)

    8. Allowing Gallo to be a spot 3pt shooter instead of showing him that at his height he could be even more dangerous as a mid-range and low post threat as well.

    9. Playing Bender as a 3pt shooter instead of using his 7ft length as an interior presence. Also, playing him over Hill. (Disrespect)

    10. Calling Hill a "bad rookie"

    11. Always putting the blame on the players and using the words "fight" and "energy"

    12. Loving Duhon until it was too late to save the season.

    13. Having more plays in his book besides the usual pick and roll with Duhon and Lee (Once again I question Boozer's comments)

    14. Using a 7-8 man rotation (even during back to back games) when the team needed more healthy bodies to pull out wins.

    I could go on but I'll stop here. At the very least this team could have been slightly better defensively if used better. That could have gotten us a few more wins. In PHX we saw a fun team with explosive offense and they looked good doing it. Easy for Dantoni. Well now that he has to actually coach people will start to look at his methods and strategy and how he uses his players. Nash was the catalyst for that team and I believe Dantoni had a horrible record in games where Nash didn't play.

    For me its all about ability as a coach. I know the team sucks BUT I still expect smart coaching moves and if that happens then I'll give credit. For now all I see is overrated or in the words of Kiaman "Celebrity Coach".

    Edit: It doesn't matter if the team wasn't expected to conted until 2010-11, you still have to coach basketball.
    Alotta the points you made are on point....good post. Wasnt it his idea for Walsh to sign Duhorn? smh

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    The One and Only KING~POETIQ's Avatar
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    To me the thing that I find most ignorant in all the d'antoni ****-lovers is that they bring those 50-win seasons he had in Phoenix.

    That was a long ass time ago, give that **** up.

    You gotta judge d'antoni on his most recent work as an NBA coach. And let me tell you, it's pityful....down right shameful even.

  12. #12
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    Also, don't forget about all the stupid faces and hand gestures d'antoni is known for...




















  13. #13
    The Gold Mac MSGKnickz33's Avatar
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    He's embarrassing sometimes, I just wanna slap the hair piece off that faggits head

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    Veteran jpz17's Avatar
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    Of course I support D'Antoni. He is one of the best in the league. Top 5 no doubt.

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    I got Soul StreetDreams21's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jpz17
    Of course I support D'Antoni. He is one of the best in the league. Top 5 no doubt.
    You're going to get bashed by the rest of the site in 5.....4.....3.....2

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