Has Chandler played his last game as a Knick?
- Thread starter LJ4ptplay
- Start date
SSj4Wingzero
All Star
You might be able to find a some Euro big men with his skillset, but he was also the best Euro big man there was. Keep in mind that Danilo wasn't a Renaldo Balkman-esque pick in the sense that he was a random pick that nobody expected. We drafted him higher than expected, but he was still expected to go pretty early in the draft - definitely in the top 10.
That and Danilo's still basically a rookie. I will agree that Danilo needs to learn to be more than a wing player - he's gotta use his height for something, after all. Although I've seen some improvement in Gallinari's defense as of late, which is always a good thing.
That and Danilo's still basically a rookie. I will agree that Danilo needs to learn to be more than a wing player - he's gotta use his height for something, after all. Although I've seen some improvement in Gallinari's defense as of late, which is always a good thing.
You gotta be joking right?!:teeth:
My point was that most NBA players who are 6'8 and taller and are big parts of their rotation do not shoot 42.4%, like Gallinari does.
Andrea Bargnani shoots 43.8% for his career, but he does not shoot 43.8% this season. Bargnani shoots 47.3%, this season.
You proved my point, when you said Dirk shot 46% on his second year in the NBA.
What does Gallinari shoot? 42.4%
My point is not that noone in the NBA shoots below 43% that's 6'10.
My point is that 95% of players Gallinari's size don't shoot 42.4%. Why? Because players Gallinari's size try to go inside more and can shoot easily over the top of their opponents. Smaller players usually shoot lower fg%, because it's harder for them to score on taller players, and they attempt more jump shots with taller players guarding them. Gallinari is taller than 90% of his opponents, yet he still only shoots 42.4%. That's sad.
Gallinari went 2-9, last night, and now shoots 42.4%. Are you still going to round up?
Gallinari has shot 41% for 70% of the season. His rare couple of good games is the only reason why he even shoots above 42%.
TR1LL10N
Hannibal Lecter
Most guys Gallos size are not perimeter players so it's unfair to compare a post up player to Gallo. Has he been in a slump? Sure but this is really his rookie year. His mechanics are smooth and he will only get better with time. Further most of his teammates ignore him and only pass to him out of necessity normally leading to a rushed and often contested shot. As he puts more muscle on and learns nuances of the NBA he will start to become an efficient player. He may never reach Dirk status but I would be happy if he played like Rashard Lewis or Turk.
Even Channing Frye shoots a higher FG% than Danilo Gallinari. Enough said.
Toby Kimbal
Benchwarmer
galli covered lebron like wallpaper
according to dantoni on Knick pregame the other night. Never seen someone on a cover assignment "switch" off like him and so quickly, it was funny. He's young which is the big upside we all hope.
according to dantoni on Knick pregame the other night. Never seen someone on a cover assignment "switch" off like him and so quickly, it was funny. He's young which is the big upside we all hope.
Kurt Thomas is 6'10 guarding and being guarded by 7 footers, and he shoots a high percentage.
Steve Kerr was 6'3 and shot over 50% from the field from long distance, while being guarded by guys significantly taller than him.
Shawn Bradley towered over opponents in the post, and still only shot 45% from the field.
The point? Your height argument is a fallacy...the reason taller guys shoot better field goal percentage is because by and large taller guys play in the low post and shoot from closer. Shooting closer translates to a higher field goal percentage. It isn't the height that does the work, it's shot location. Obviously, a shot from 2 feet away is easier to make than one from 20 feet away. Players who know how/are taught to/are expected to play low to the post put up a higher field goal percentage by the nature of where their shots are coming from, not from height.
Al Horford is 6'10...he is being guarded by the opponents centers...and he shoots over 50% from the field. Is Horford some sort of offensive genius? Does he "tower" over the opposition in the post (the 7' centers guarding him)? NO! He hits that high of a percentage because he is asked to shoot closer to the basket, in the low post, grab the garbage rebounds and go back up with it. How does your height hypothesis explain Al Horford? Fact is, Horford and Gallinari are the same height, but are completely different players with completely different roles.
Andrea Bargnani is a perfect example. Dude is 7', but he is a perimeter player. He had a worse shooting percentage two years into his career than Gallo does. I'm sure there were fans like you of the Toronto Raptors, complaining about a 7' guy on the perimeter. But that's how the European game is run...that's what these guys are taught to do and moreover that's what they are expected to do.
Regardless of his height, Gallinari is NOT a low-post back-to-the-basket player. This explains his poor FG%age this early in his career. Just like Andrea Bargnani.
Last edited:
You didn't read my post carefully.
I said that most players his size shoot a better percentage than him.
I also was referring to players who are a big part of their team's rotation, meaning they play most of the regular season games and play at least 20 minutes per game and are over 6'8.
I know there's exceptions, I actually pointed that out when I said most players Gallinari's size shoot better percentages and not all.
I didn't want to make a big list, but here it goes. By the way, there's a lot more players, I just don't want to spend much time writing everyone's name.
Channing Frye, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, David Lee,
Mehmet Okur, Andrea Bargnani, Dirk Nowitzki, Antawn Jamison, Rudy Gay, David West, Luol Deng, Elton Brand, Tayshaun Prince, Kevin Durant,
Michael Beasley, Jonas Jerebko, Marvin Williams, David West, Mike Miller,
Jeff Green, Tayshaun Prince, Al Harrington, Wiilson Chandler, etc. all are 6'8 and taller, are big parts of their teams's roatiations, shoot lots of 3 pointers and mid to long range shots and shoot a better percentage.
The fact that you mention that most people his size post up also proves my point, because it proves Gallinari is not playing to the level that most of the quality NBA role players, and stars his height play.
come on...who are you really??? is that you Uncle Mike "NO-Dantoni... come on...you can tell us...
I understand what you are saying...I am not saying Gallo's FG %age is good or even acceptable.
But to say he should shoot better because he is 6'10 misses the point entirely. Height has nothing to do with it. It has everything to do with playing the game at NBA speed and developing shooting talent.
Next time you watch the Knicks, don't just watch IF Gallo misses, but HOW Gallo misses. Watching to see simply whether or not he misses neglects half the point. I've noticed, and my dad has noticed, that Gallo frequently misses short...even if the shot is on line. This indicates to me one of two things: 1) Gallo is tired, he doesn't have the energy to get the ball to the hoop and this could be indicative of the fact that he isn't used to an NBA-schedule or 2) Gallo is not strong enough and needs to hit the weight room. It's not like he's clanking balls of the backboard, the shots are just short...way short.
His height has nothing to do with it, and simply because he is 6'10 does not mean he should shoot a better percentage. He should shoot a better percentage because he is supposed to be a shooter, that's where it stops and ends. To compare him to other 6'10" players or players taller that are asked to run low post game is just nonsensical.
No it doesn't. It proves that Gallo isn't being asked and wasn't drafted to play low post basketball. Most guys his height play that way because 6'10" guys in college are made to be power forwards and centers, they are put into the low post and learn the low post offense early on. In Europe, this isn't the case, most players are taught to play on the perimeter.
I made a long list of players who are around his height and who shoot lots of jump shots and still shoot better percentages than him. So your entire argument is flawed.
I already pointed out the fact that most people around his height(6-8 to 7 feet) who shoot lots of jump shots still shoot better percentages than him.
Channing Frye, Chris Bosh, Zach Randolph, David Lee, Mehmet Okur, Andrea Bargnani, Dirk Nowitzki, Antawn Jamison, Rudy Gay, David West, Luol Deng, Elton Brand, Tayshaun Prince, Kevin Durant, Michael Beasley, Jonas Jerebko, Marvin Williams, David West, Mike Miller, Jeff Green, Tayshaun Prince, Al Harrington, Wiilson Chandler, Troy Murphy...
Height has a lot to do with field goal percentage. You admitted that when you said that bigger players tend to take closer shots.
If you're 6'10 like Gallinari, that means you are going to have the advantage when it comes to shooting. Most big men aren't going to want to go out and contest your shot, and most small forwards will be shorter than you, giving you the opportunity to shoot over them. Gallinari has the size to shoot above most NBA small forwards and still has trouble shooting at a good percentage.
Channing Frye is a mediocore player and still shoots better.
Last edited:
Of that long list of players only Okur, Bargnani, Nowitzki, Jerebko are European...which is the brand of player I am talking about.
Okur is a pure-bred center, who was drafted a long time ago, before European nations started churning out #1 picks and players by the dozens...he was taught a back-to-the-basket game and was drafted to play that way.
Bargnani had similar numbers in his first two years as to what Gallinari has through the same length of time. Comparing a guy with 4 years experience straight up to a guy with just 2 years experience (especially when European players have shown a tendency not to perform well early) is quite short-sighted.
Nowitzki is Nowitzki, he might be a hall of famer, no one is out here (especially not me) claiming Gallo is going to be a hall of famer.
Jerebko is the only guy you have a point with, European born likely taught the same game as Gallinari...but go to 82games.com...They have a stat called effective FG%age. Essentially the thought is that 3 point FG% and 2 point FG% should not be counted the same, because 3 pointers are worth more than 2 pointers...Jerebko's effective FG%age is 51.5%, Gallo's is 53%..
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gallida01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/j/jerebjo01.html
Under advanced stats.
In fact...look at the numbers on effective field goal percentage (again, compensating for the fact that 3s are worth more than 2s) for Jerebko this year and Nowitzki, Bargnani and Gallinari at age 21 (Gallo this year, and Nowitzki and Bargnani when they were 21)...
Gallinari - 53%
Jerebko - 51.5%
Bargnani -50.7%
Nowitzki - 49.2%
Those same years, run as True Shooting percentage (composite number compensating for FT%, 2 point FG%age and 3 point FG%age, weighted for the relative value of each of those scores)
Gallinari - 58.1%
Jerebko - 54.8%
Nowitzki - 54.7%
Bargnani - 54.6%
http://www.basketball-reference.com...000&p3=bargnan01&y3=2007&p4=jerebjo01&y4=2010
Gallinari has NOT impressed recently, I admit that. But he still has growing to do. What if the Mavs gave up on Dirk because of his poor shooting early? What if the Raptors gave up on Andrea because of his poor shooting early? Gallinari has shown some impressive signs...does he need to get more consistent? Of course...but give it time before we all jump the gun and look to move this guy...because I guarantee if we had 21 year old Dirk or 21 year old Bargnani, you would be begging to do that also.
And again...if height has "a lot to do with Field Goal percentage" - shouldn't Shaq then be knocking down threes? If it's so easy for him to shoot over whoever guards him, shouldn't he just be draining outside jumpers? Shouldn't Shawn Bradley have dominated over everyone and knocked down mid-range jumpers in guy's faces all day? Obviously, the answer is no...because it's not the height that's the factor...Shaq will never knock down 3s with ease, never has...even though he towered over some guys defending him...but he still had a high FG%age...why? Because he shot within 2 feet of the basket almost every time. It's not height as much as it is shot location...
Last edited:
jimkcchief88
All Star
I can't believe how many people line up to make excuses for Gallo. I just don't get it. So now we need two sets of stats: one for US born players and one for Euro players???? So its ok for 6'10" donuts to camp out at the three throw line and shoot bricks just because "they are from Europe????" That's ridiculous. Newsflash: Gallo is playing in the NBA, not Barcelona and was a lottery pick to boot. Translation: camping out at he three point line and shooting well under 50% is not acceptable.
Taller players are supposed to shoot a better % than they're shorter counterparts because they should be able to get easier shots closer to the goal and that's it. Anybody that argues differently doesn't know crap about basketball.
Taller players are supposed to shoot a better % than they're shorter counterparts because they should be able to get easier shots closer to the goal and that's it. Anybody that argues differently doesn't know crap about basketball.
Red
TYPE-A
Wow! Like I said "some of you know ball in terms of the NBA" but few know "The game of basketball"!
It's now a loooooong list of excuses for Gallo. It's amazing how obvious some of you on here are...
Height doesn't matter & has no berring on shot percentage?
This is the NBA right? Where the game is exploited by size right? And then not only to say it DOESN'T MATTER and pull out some outragous stats to prove your point (another arguing technique)!!!
Just f*cking sad...
I'm embarrased to be a part of this site sometimes.
Jim, OG Knick, even Kyiman all seem to know the game. But some of you...
Just f*cking embarrasing. You probably been watching the game for years now and still haven't figured it out...smh!
And then come here and try and convince us who see the SIMPLE answers and solutions so easliy of your bullsh*t because you refuse to accept the obvious logical truth.
Its sad, like in todays paper when "coach" was defending his flawed style so viemently. Smh!
Last edited:
NYKnuniversity
Benchwarmer
Agreed. People are placing unfair expectations on Gallo. If you wanted a low post player you shouldn't have been lobbying to get Jordan Hill out on the first plane to Houston.
That is an example of a player who will consistently shoot over 50%. His shots are close to the basket...talk about simple logic.
I think we can all agree that Gallo has been camping out on the wing, and as a result has shot a lower % than we would like him to.
Further, we can all agree that we want him to take it to the hole some more. Especially with his size as a tool of exploitation (as Red noted).
I think people forget what the point of this threat was...
It's simple. Do we want Gallo's potential with the combination of size, shooting range and defense? Or do we want Chandler's slashing ability on the wing with his ability to create with the ball in his hands?
Both are great players, but I'd rather take the chance on Gallo with the chance of striking gold and developing him in to a nice NBA player.
Chandler is ALSO a great NBA player. He will be a valuable asset to any team, as he does whatever is asked of him (defense, creating plays, ect.). But his skill set is something we can find in several NBA players. Which is exactly why this thread was created...we may have found a similar player in Bill Walker.
I don't know...I like both players, but I give the Gallo the edge, simply because he can develop in to a really nice player (and this is not to say Wilson won't because he is young as well).
Again, the height argument is a total fallacy. Al Horford shoots a high FG %age, yet he is shorter than his counterparts at 6'10"...Why? Because he is strong and a good rebounder, he is able to put up the garbage shots close to the hoop. Shawn Bradley towered over his defenders and shot a bad FG %age...Why? He was weak and couldn't get inside as well. It has more to do with strength, footwork and agility and less to do with height as one might think. Steve Kerr shot a brilliant percentage and was a 6'3" SHOOTING GUARD, being guarded by guys 6'6" and taller. Height is easy to point to as a reason for getting easy shots, but it is overblown by a shit ton. If you don't have the strength, footwork and agility, I don't give a shit how tall you are (Shawn Bradley) you won't shoot a high percentage. Period.
To say height is the be-all end-all is not only wrong, it's completely archaic. Height is nothing without footwork, strength, agility, stamina and low-post maneuvers. Dwight Howard dominates, and yet he is of the same height as everyone else...he's not some 7'7" behemoth...Why does this occur? Because he is so God-damn strong, nobody can hang...That said, kid still doesn't have that killer instinct, he rarely walks out on the floor looking like he is ready to just take over and dominate a game. There are so many factors that go into determining how easily a player gets/makes shots, to limit it merely to height is so extremely short-sighted I'm honestly baffled. But then again, I'm a stat junkie, I will argue to the death that RBIs in baseball is a pointless stat, that FG%age in basketball is flawed, that save percentage in hockey is totally ludicrous, and that net yardage gained in football is a stat beyond idiocy. But what it comes down to for me is, you have to factor in: strength, footwork, agility, stamina, speed AND height all into the formula to determine how a player should be doing on the floor, including some intangibles like heart and killer-instinct. To isolate any one of those and say "THAT is the reason..." is as insane to me as to isolate any other one.
As for the European thing...it's more that European players have shown a tendency to start slow in this league. Comparisons to Dirk's numbers and Bargnani's numbers show that Gallo isn't all that far behind those two guys when they were the same age, coming out of a European basketball camp. I understand he is playing in the NBA, but he had been taught day in and day out for 18 years how to be a certain type of player, how to run at a certain type of game-speed, how to play a certain type of defense in European basketball camps twice a day. He wasn't learning the post, he never had learned the post...neither did Dirk or Andrea, that came with time. The point is merely that a lot of these tall guys come into this league as purely outside scoring threats and it takes a while for them to adjust. That's what Gallo was drafted to be, an outside scoring threat. Not some Al Horford post dominant player.
Nobody is saying its okay for him to shoot bricks from three...but to expect him to just come into this league and be a low-post threat is sheer lunacy, in my opinion. That wasn't why he was drafted, that's not his game, that's never been his game, that was never his upside, that was never the reason to draft him. Nobody in the Knicks front office drafted this kid thinking we had a low post presence, he was drafted to be a shooter, and as many of the European players have shown, the European game doesn't translate immediately.
I understand Gallo was a lottery pick, but Andrea was THE TOP PICK OVERALL. AND HE SHOT 38% FROM THE FIELD HIS SECOND YEAR. Just give it time before you throw the towel in on this kid...Dirk adjusted, Andrea adjusted, and with time perhaps Gallo can adjust. Do you think we would get fair value at all trading Gallo? We'd get pennies on the dollar for him, it's pointless to trade him now, especially judging by the way fans of the team look at this guy.
Last edited:
jimkcchief88
All Star
Gallo may not have been drafted to be a low post presence, but to be 6'11" and not have one go to post move is ridiculous. It shows a lack of coaching on the other side of the pond. You say being tall is overated, but there are certain things you cannot coach: size, strength or speed and Gallo is 0 for 3 in those catagories. In my opinion to be that tall and have no low post game makes you worthless waste of space on the basketball court. What do you do when your jumper isn't falling???? There is a reason why the Knicks keep taking these nightly beatings: teams with big front courts kill us by getting EASY BUCKETS CLOSE TO THE GOAL while our bigs besides D. Lee settle for low % shots outside and we get killed in the paint. Its as simple as that. You say height is "a total fallacy", but Wilt wouldn't scored a 100 if he was 6'2", Kareem wouldn't have 40k points if he was 5'10", and Jordan wouldn't have been a matchup nightmare if he was Spuds height. To say height doesn't make a difference in basketball is like saying baseball pitchers can get the ball to the plate UNDERHANDED. It makes NO SENSE.
I said from the beginning that Gallo was a project because of his slight of build and obvious lack of post game, but you Cocklovers swore up and down this guy deserved to be the 6th pick and was NBA ready. Well two years later and we are still waiting while the rest of his peers are out playing Gallo night after night. Which is why we are stuck with this bum because he has little trade value. If all the same excuses that are being made for Gallo applied to Crawford and Zach, we would have a playoff team right now......
NYKnuniversity
Benchwarmer
Refer back to my post before KBlack to end this stupid argument. The last part of my post pretty much sums it up.
jimkcchief88
All Star
???????????????????????????????????