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Thread: Mike D'Antoni The Meter Is Running

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    Member KNICKMATIC809's Avatar
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    Default Mike D'Antoni The Meter Is Running

    Big C is part of our forum: he visits at times- read the article you'll understand

    [QUOTE][/QUOTE
    (Big C) Mike D?Antoni you have one year to get your act together pal. For two years you have made excuses and excuses have been made for you. We have heard everything from ?the team doesn?t have enough talent? to ?the players just don?t play with energy.? Two years have gone by and all we have seen is 50 and 53 losses. This is not going to cut it next year. Mike D?Antoni has not shown that he?s a better coach than Isiah Thomas (33 wins) or Don Chaney (37 wins). Without future Hall-of-Famer Steven Nash things on Mike D?Antoni?s side are looking as dark as the darkest nights in Gotham City.

    When Mike D?Antoni was brought in as the Knicks coach we were told that he was a players? coach, however, what we have seen is quite the opposite. We have seen him bench Nate Robinson for a month, and put Hughes, Jordan Hill, Darko, and Douglas in exile while letting other players run wild in his ?Swish or Brick? system. Marbury and Robinson are great examples of what happens when a coach does not get along with a player. However, why did the rest of the players get shafted? Every player can?t be wrong. Players, like most employees, just want their roles to be defined.

    The second big hype we heard was that Mike D?Antoni is a coach who could draw in big players because they would want to play for him. So far we have not seen that. In fact this off-season will not just be a test for Donnie Walsh but it will also show if players really want to play for Coach D?Antoni. It is easy for a player to say, ?I love Coach D?Antoni? when the question is asked in front of the media. What is a player suppose to say? ?I don?t like him? I hate his guts.? Well, maybe I should rephrase that. Who, outside of Amare Stoudemire, will volunteer a negative response? We also can?t assume, just because a player likes D?Antoni as a coach, that they do not like their current coach and team situation better.

    One good thing that came from Mike D?Antoni this year my appreciation of a well trimmed mustache. Aside from that I can?t really think of anything. Oh wait, I take that back, the Knicks did looking good in the 3-2 zone this season.

    Mike D?Antoni looked confused and erratic in everything from poor management of veteran players (like Jeffries and most importantly Chris Duhon) to playing favorites. Chris Duhon was allowed to miss shots as well turn the ball over. Yet he didn?t get any criticism in public. Yet Nate Robinson would get blasted immediately. Al Harrington was allowed to shoot until his hands started to bleed, while others were told to share the ball. And let?s not forget about David Lee being allowed to play mailbox defense.

    Mike D?Antoni was supposed to be the team leader by setting the example. However, how is a player supposed to take game preparations seriously when his coach is joking around with opposing team players before games and even during games?

    D?Antoni?s biggest blunder this season has to be letting Duhon run the point guard position for so long. The next biggest mistake was not adjusting to his players. D?Antoni failed to make new plays and design an offense that suits his players. Pat Riley was known for ?Showtime? with his Lakers. Yet when he became the Knicks coach he made them adjust to a defensive halfcourt mindset. Every team in the league learned how to shutdown the Knicks pick and roll plays. D?Antoni kept running those plays like a scratched CD on repeat. He also focused on outside shooting when the Knciks team is not stacked with shooters.

    No, he?s no Pat Riley. However, nothing stopped D?Antoni from making adjustments. There is no reason why the Knicks couldn?t have more wins this season. When you see Scott Sklies bring his Bucks to the playoffs you have to wonder why couldn?t the Knicks at least have been close to a playoff shot.

    Sklies could have easily run the same excuses, ?we have a rookie point guard? and ?not enough talent?. Instead Skiles got his young group to believe in defense and the winning. Coach Rick Aldelman of the Houston Rockets is another coach that did a decent job with the talent that he had, resulting in his Rockets playing above 500. in the West.

    A teacher can not use ?I can?t teach because I have bad students? as an excuse. And the same goes for coaches. Nor should a coach be just collecting 6 million a year for doing nothing

    Next season when the Knicks sign talented players the microscope will be on you Mr. Coach D?Antoni.

    The Best Of Mike D'Antoni

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    Big C wrote this? You should quote the source of the article. One of the better critiques of D'antoni's coaching I have read either on the web or in print.

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    Thanks guys for giving me props for the article. Besides videos I write blogs for my site at Fromthebaseline.com.

    I just hope next season when the Knicks have improved their talent we see good results.

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    One of the best REAL evaluations I've seen. This should be printed in all of the NY papers.

    I'm curious what the Dantoni supporters have to say about it.

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    Thumbs up

    Big C.....great artcle


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    Superstar pat's Avatar
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    The majpr problem of this article is that it fails to take into consideration the most important aspect: While Isiah and Cheaney actually had a team which -- at least on paper -- looked as if they should be winning more games, D'Antoni had to work with a team which was only built according to one principle: getting below the salary-cap as far as possible. Isiah had the most expensive team in the NBA and did not manage to win more games.

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    Originally Posted by pat
    The majpr problem of this article is that it fails to take into consideration the most important aspect: While Isiah and Cheaney actually had a team which -- at least on paper -- looked as if they should be winning more games, D'Antoni had to work with a team which was only built according to one principle: getting below the salary-cap as far as possible. Isiah had the most expensive team in the NBA and did not manage to win more games.
    Actually, Isiah Thomas won 33 games with Eddy Curry as the lead scorer.
    Mike D'Antoni is yet to win 33 games, in his first two seasons with the Knicks, despite having a better player in David Lee to lead the way.

    The team's lack of talent is partially D'Antoni's fault.

    He wanted to get Chris Duhon ahead of Andre Miller, and he wanted Jordan Hill ahead of Brandon Jennings, and he wanted to get Gallinari ahead of Lopez.
    "Over the summer, D'Antoni wasn't thrilled by the idea of the Knicks pursuing free agent Andre Miller and he had no interest in signing Jayson Williams and Jamaal Tinsley, two point guards that worked out for the club. Also, D'Antoni favored Jordan Hill over Brandon Jennings in the draft."
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

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    I agree with you as far as the rookies are concerned (and I don't want to open that Pandorra's box of 'the Nets do not win more games than the Knicks'). The thing is that Lee's development was only possible because he got so much burn.

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    Given the Knicks have been a terrible team talent wise, and they've been a revolving door of players with lower and lower contracts, Dantoni's rep - whether he deserves it or not- is going down... He's not going to be seen as a bad coach, beacuse as i said we've had no talent, he's just not going to be seen as a great coach, because a great coach would have been able to salvage some...

    As Hahn talks about, as Walsh has probably touched upon: no one expected this year to be of any worth, but i don't think any expected us to be as bad as we were... which inevitably will reflect on Dantoni... because a good coach would be able to make the most of what he has and get things jiving, at least from time to time...

    at the same time, coaches like mike brown or jackson, if put in the same circumstance, would likely end with the same result...but they have star players so....

    that leads to the next point, in which, yes after this off season, given we get some talent, we'll be able to hold Dantoni to a little higher standards...even though he seemed to fall below the already low standards we had for this season.... especially if we get some good talent and not just the same 'okay' players... regardless, we'll be going into this season with better than what we've had the last few [hopefully much better], and the only thing that should hold Dantoni back is the team chemistry and the fact that most the players haven't played w one another...

    If Donnie does his job this off season, we'll be able to see how good a coach Dantoni is when he has some talent to work with, and isn't riddled with Marbury/Nate Robinson like players/stuff going on..

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    Nyk Logo

    Lets get down to FACTS here......last (2008-9) season the OKC Thunders had a 23 win season (PG-Westbrook, SG-Durant, SF-Green, PF-Collison, C-Kristic).....this (2009-10) season the OKC Thunders have a 50 win season with the only changes to their roster from one season to the next was the addition of rookies 6.10 Serge Ibaka, 6.4 Harden, and 6.1 Maynor. Plus moving Durant to the "Point-Foward" position with SF-Green as his side-kick.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    At the start of the 2009-10 season no-one expected the OKC Thunders young roster to win over 30 games this season. Or become one of the top best running offensive team u have to outscore to beat in the NBA.


    Celebrity coach Dantoni (in 2008-9) had all of Isiah Thomas players (with the exception of Eddy Curry) healthy and ready to win games for him.
    Even Dantoni's ex-Suns player Marbury was willing to add an explosion coming off the Knick bench to add slashing and passing for all the scoring players.
    Coach Damntoni had the power to put a hold on the early trade of the Knicks two highest scorers on the team (Zach & Crawful) 12 games into the season with a 7-5 Knick record (with the explosive bench player Marbury being DNP all of those 12 games).

    It's not hard to figure out right now, the reason why (even) a NBA computor wouldve selected one of the leagues top offensive-coaches (Dantoni) for the job to coach Isiah Thomas abundance of offensive talented players:
    PG-Marbury, SG-Crawful, Combo-Nate, SF-Q.Richardson, SF-Chandler, PF-Zach, PF-Lee, C-Eddy Curry, plus add 6th-pick SG-Mayo or C-Lopez with an offensive-minded headcoach Isiah's Players oponents would have to outscore the Knicks to beat them.
    Which wouldve made the Knicks an above 500 Knick team in the Eastern Conference.
    The Knicks no-longer have all those offensive talented players so the Knicks have very little need for a one minded offensive celebrity coach Damntoni.

    I read so many members comments about the Knicks not needing to make last 2008-9 season playoffs to get blown-out in the first round, as much as they needed to shed Zach & Crawful contracts.
    To me that is considered backward thinking.....players with playoff experience are easier to trade especially when they draw double-teams so their teammates can score.....Damntoni system only impliments two to four passes before the shot which was what Isiah Thomas players needed to win.
    Last edited by Kiyaman; Apr 23, 2010 at 01:32.

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    Originally Posted by Knicker23
    Given the Knicks have been a terrible team talent wise, and they've been a revolving door of players with lower and lower contracts, Dantoni's rep - whether he deserves it or not- is going down... He's not going to be seen as a bad coach, beacuse as i said we've had no talent, he's just not going to be seen as a great coach, because a great coach would have been able to salvage some...

    As Hahn talks about, as Walsh has probably touched upon: no one expected this year to be of any worth, but i don't think any expected us to be as bad as we were... which inevitably will reflect on Dantoni... because a good coach would be able to make the most of what he has and get things jiving, at least from time to time...

    at the same time, coaches like mike brown or jackson, if put in the same circumstance, would likely end with the same result...but they have star players so....

    that leads to the next point, in which, yes after this off season, given we get some talent, we'll be able to hold Dantoni to a little higher standards...even though he seemed to fall below the already low standards we had for this season.... especially if we get some good talent and not just the same 'okay' players... regardless, we'll be going into this season with better than what we've had the last few [hopefully much better], and the only thing that should hold Dantoni back is the team chemistry and the fact that most the players haven't played w one another...

    If Donnie does his job this off season, we'll be able to see how good a coach Dantoni is when he has some talent to work with, and isn't riddled with Marbury/Nate Robinson like players/stuff going on..

    Your opinion is riddled.....u have NBA coaches that coach to each of their players talents (team-coaches Mike Brown, Phil Jackson, Pop, Sloan, and now Scott Brooks) and u have coaches that rely on their pet-players talents for the win (Isiah & Dantoni).

    Celebrity coach Dantoni NBA career coaching is only three seasons of success from talented Western Conference Players "PG-Nash, SG-Joe Johnson, SF-Marion, and PF-Amare.". Having two veteran players that orchestrated a jellin chemistry from their star-talent in a running system in the west (Marion & Kidd uptempo game, plus Nash, Finley, Jamison, and Dirk uptempo game).
    All four of the Phoenix Players above talents was worth above $10M per season before Dantoni was hired as an assistant coach for the Phoenix Suns (the leadership captain of the team "Shawn Matrix Marion" at the time was receiving $15M per season). Shawn Marion was the most minute played player on the team with 42 mpg throughout headcoach Dantoni (3 and half year) tour with the Suns.

    Everyone knew that Isiah Thomas needed a team-oriented headcoach for his individual-scoring players, but dum-dum owner Dolan hired one of Isiah Thomas most hated enemies coach Charlie Brown.....it was the same as the Pacers owner hiring Larry Bird.....to get rid of Isiah Thomas...

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    Veteran knicksin60's Avatar
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    This is what Knicks Online needs more of: Long and interesting debates that captures the reader's attention span.

    It could feel depressing, seeing how it takes nearly 10 hours for someone to post a message on this forum.It makes the Knick fan-base appear as deserted as the Washington Nationals fan-base.

    I'm sorry that I had to bring this up in the middle of this thread, but for these past couple of months, it seems like Knicks Online has lost two-thirds of its members.The Knicks are in the midst of one of their most interesting off-seasons in more than a decade but it's like nobody cares.

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    This article serves absolutely no purpose but to paint D'antoni in a negative light.... I read this same exact article in another forum and all I did was Seriously who cares about the last 2 years. Everybody even remotely associated with the NY Knicks knew damn well what Walsh was going to do and furthermore what Walsh had to do. To criticize the results of the teams last 2 seasons is just a waste of time. But yet people still want to do it. And we come up with cute little knicknames like "dummie" walsh and Mike "D'anphony". What a pathetic bunch of losers. Everyone knew what was going to happen and yet we can't just wait until the plan has been executed. Would you be happy if D'antoni would've taken the Bulls job and pasted us year in and year out for the next decade? How much of a chance would the Knicks have had to be competitive in that scenario? Yeah D'antoni,Rose,Noah & Amare would've stomped us year in and year out. DId you hear any players come out and say yeah I would love to play for Avery Johnson or Mark Jackson??? No you didn't. In life you can't have everything the way you like it. So grow up. You know the saying beggars can't be chosers? Well the knick franchise 2 years ago were beggars and the laughing stock of sports period. But because of the reputation of the Great city called New York and because Walsh is from the Bronx we got lucky and got one of the better GM's in the last 20 years. Remember what teams put together by walsh did to us? And because of him he was able to sell Mike D on a plan and steal him away from one of our rivals. What if right now we having to face the idea of chicago landing Bron,Bosh,Amare or Wade and all the same things were said about how they like Mike and would love to play in his system? We'd still be crying like little girls. Seriously Knick fans grow a pair and man up and make the best out of the situation because when it gets rolling and you scrubs want to jump on the bandwagon all happy I'll be calling you out.

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    Breaking News

    Originally Posted by ibraheim718
    This article serves absolutely no purpose but to paint D'antoni in a negative light.... I read this same exact article in another forum and all I did was Seriously who cares about the last 2 years. Everybody even remotely associated with the NY Knicks knew damn well what Walsh was going to do and furthermore what Walsh had to do. To criticize the results of the teams last 2 seasons is just a waste of time. But yet people still want to do it. And we come up with cute little knicknames like "dummie" walsh and Mike "D'anphony". What a pathetic bunch of losers. Everyone knew what was going to happen and yet we can't just wait until the plan has been executed. Would you be happy if D'antoni would've taken the Bulls job and pasted us year in and year out for the next decade? How much of a chance would the Knicks have had to be competitive in that scenario? Yeah D'antoni,Rose,Noah & Amare would've stomped us year in and year out. DId you hear any players come out and say yeah I would love to play for Avery Johnson or Mark Jackson??? No you didn't. In life you can't have everything the way you like it. So grow up. You know the saying beggars can't be chosers? Well the knick franchise 2 years ago were beggars and the laughing stock of sports period. But because of the reputation of the Great city called New York and because Walsh is from the Bronx we got lucky and got one of the better GM's in the last 20 years. Remember what teams put together by walsh did to us? And because of him he was able to sell Mike D on a plan and steal him away from one of our rivals. What if right now we having to face the idea of chicago landing Bron,Bosh,Amare or Wade and all the same things were said about how they like Mike and would love to play in his system? We'd still be crying like little girls. Seriously Knick fans grow a pair and man up and make the best out of the situation because when it gets rolling and you scrubs want to jump on the bandwagon all happy I'll be calling you out.
    Guys like u just dont get it.....rumor has it that the Cleveland Cavs organization lost $20M in 2008-9 and $10M in 2009-10 with the best winning record in the NBA in both seasons. While the decade of losing Knicks with a salary cap higher than the Cavs in both seasons grossed more $$$ than the Cavs but 40% less $$$ than all of Isiah Thomas seasons.
    The New York Knicks has the Top-3 largest Fan-Base in all the NBA!
    Lets Go Knicks!

    So under any plans made by the Knick organization the Knick-Fans deserve to see better than what they seen the past two seasons which was misscrude, misrepresented by poor management and effortless coaching of over 25 different players while the only thing Management and coaching were on the same-page was "F....k these two seasons" which cost the Knicks four valuable first round picks (2008, 2009, 2011, and 2012).

    If u are to blind to see the Knicks management and headcoach did nothing to enhance, improve, or create an optimistic enviroment of the future to come for the Knick-team and Knick-Fans in the last two years.....your expectation as a knowledgable Knick-fan is slippin.

    In the previous season (2008-9) we seen several NBA mediocre teams develope a "Jellin" chemistry from 3 or 4 of their players on the roster to make a splash for a .500 roster in the 2009-10 season:
    Rockets, Bulls, Grizzles, Bobcats, and the OKC Thunders.
    Within two seasons we have not seen two-consistant players "Jell" on the Knicks roster for any kind of hope or success for the future signing of the so-call slot-machine Two-Max FA.

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    Default D'amntoni rules!

    this thread drives me nuts. every thread dissing Mike D'amntoni drives me nuts. I hate this coach so much, hate his mustache, his "I'm a better coach than you are a player" attitude, his non-defensive scheme, his dissing and sitting of primo players (Marbury, N8, Hughes, Douglas, Darko, Hill), his idea that a better offense will beat a great defense, a shortened rotation, lack of minutes to the rooks, insane love of Duhon, it all just drives me nuts.

    Watching Rick Pitino talk last night during the playoffs, talking about Jeff Van Gundy and Mark Jackson (who I wish Donnie picked for Knick coach), just made me realize what a total dick D'amntoni really is. He's just a dick! He doesn't belong in New York. I really think most of the folks on this forum can coach the Knicks better. Any of the three professionals mentioned above would have done a better job, IMO. Steve Nash is the only reason Phoenix thrived under D'amntoni. the proof is in these consecutive 50-loss seasons.

    Is Mike Brown really one of the best coaches in the league, because LeBron is by far one of the best players? Is D'amntoni a great coach because David Lee has gotten better with each progressive year? Will bringing in 2 new Max F.A.'s to FIT INTO D'AMNTONI's OFFENSE > DEFENSE world really make a total difference? I don't know, but I wish we had a different coach.

    I agree, Big C, the meter is running, unfortunately old Donnie and clueless Dolan have staked their reps (and a multi-million upgrade to MSG) on this sh*thead coach. We're stuck with the f*cker.

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