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Thread: With Camby out, Knicks must look to other options-Hahn

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    Member KNICKMATIC809's Avatar
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    Default With Camby out, Knicks must look to other options-Hahn

    With Camby out, Knicks must look to other options5:48 PM By Alan Hahn

    Marcus Camby is about to make some serious coin for a 36 year old role player. And that's not a knock on him at all. Camby fits very well there with the Trail Blazers, who on Tuesday announced the 6-11 shot-blocker signed a two-year contract extension to remain in Portland, and there's a reason why the Knicks thought very highly of him as a free agent target this summer.

    Camby's length, high IQ and athleticism made him a no-brainer for the Knicks. In fact, pairing him with Chris Bosh, Amar'e Stoudemire or even David Lee, to that matter, would have instantly made the Knicks a better interior defensive team.

    A couple of stories in the New York press from a few weeks ago when we were in Portland clearly triggered this event. Serious Knicks interest, and Camby's very candid comments about coming back to New York, had to have the Blazers on the offensive. The fact that backup center Joel Przybilla's knee injury will likely keep him out for at least the start of next season also played a big part in Portland's effort to keep Camby in town. If Greg Oden can ever stay healthy, he and Camby could be a tough frontcourt tandem for anyone trying to get to the rim.

    Meanwhile, that remains a serious problem for the Knicks. And with Camby now out of the picture, the focus to upgrade the interior defense will have to turn to other options available and potentially available via free agency and trades. Here are a few and keep in mind we're looking for the best fit with the style D'Antoni wants to play, so the list doesn't rank in order of best to worst, just best fit. And that's why Carlos Boozer and David Lee aren't included, because, while the Knicks certainly have them in mind at PF, neither offer much of the defensive presence to help fill that specific need. And let's assume Dirk Nowitzki and Yao Ming stay put.

    1. Amar'e Stoudemire -- He's 7-feet and extremely athletic. No, not really great as a positional defender, but he can and does challenge shots (career-average 1.4 blocks per game). He's better as a power forward so you'd probably still need to find a center or perhaps a rugged power forward to really give you a solid frontline.

    2. Chris Bosh -- Like Stoudemire, he gets shot blocks but while he is not nearly as physically tough or intimidating as Stoudemire, he is a little better positionally and smarter. But, again, even at 6-11 (listed), he's mostly a power forward, not a center and though D'Antoni likes to play small, it might be a turn-off for Bosh to be told he'd be playing center next to, say, a 6-8 player such as Wilson Chandler. That's why Camby might have been an attraction for Bosh.

    3. Udonis Haslem -- Doubtful he'd leave Miami, even if it means he'd have to accept remaining in a reserve role behind a potential incoming PF such as Stoudemire, Bosh or Boozer. But Haslem is exactly what the Knicks need: tough, smart, experienced and disciplined, with a good mid-range game and a nose for defense. Put him next to Stoudemire or Bosh in New York and you're in good shape in the East.

    4. Amir Johnson -- At 6-9, he's a very raw power forward with extremely long arms that, on defense, make him play 7-feet. If you put him next to a high-end big such as Bosh or Stoudemire, perhaps he can be the guy you double-off of only to worry about him catching offensive put-backs, alley-oops and getting out to fill the lane on the break. A lot of untapped potential, though not much of a fundamental foundation.

    5. Tyrus Thomas -- Again, similar to Johnson in that he's really more of a power forward, but you could pair him with Bosh to offer a very long and athletic frontline. There's no question he can challenge shots with the best of them in the NBA and can also run the floor. He doesn't handle strict coaching well, so perhaps D'Antoni's approach would appeal to him. Then again, maybe it wouldn't be the best environment for a moody player like him. Offense is limited to put-backs alley-oops and cuts, but next to an all-star, that'd be all he'd get anyway.

    [Note: The Knicks would likely bypass Johnson/Thomas scenarios if they opt to draft Mississippi State's Jarvis Varnado, a 6-9 shot-blocking specialist who is projected to be available in the second round. Varnado is a project, for sure, but would come much cheaper.]

    6. Chris Kaman -- Would the Clippers new management consider trading the first-time all-star with Blake Griffin ready to make his debut? Kaman (two years, $23.5M remaining) has the tools to play in D'Antoni's system because he moves very well for a big man, has a soft touch with both hands and has the length to defend the rim. Isn't a bona-fide go-to guy, but you wouldn't trade for him to be that in this system, where he'd do more pick-and-roll/pick-and-pop stuff with what you hope is your main guy (i.e.: Joe Johnson).

    7. Brendan Haywood -- He'll be 30 years old and likely looking to join an established team (perhaps even stay in Dallas). He's a solid vet and a big body. Not sure he plays as fast as what Mike D'Antoni is going to want, but, again with the right talent at PF he can be the bodyguard you need to protect your stars and do the dirty work. Plus, he's a native New Yorker with a pretty candid blog that would be quite popular here in the media capital.

    8. Samuel Dalembert -- A terrific shot blocker (career 1.9 average) who can run the floor, but absolute head case in many other aspects, including discipline. One year left on his deal at $12.2M so it's not a major risk. You'd need serious leadership in the locker room to hold him accountable. Perhaps being in a contract year will make him more responsible.

    9. Emeka Okafor -- His contract (4 years, $52M left) could be had from the cost-conscious Hornets if the Knicks can offer payroll relief, but the Knicks should also want to get more out of New Orleans than just Okafor, who is a good shot-blocker and rebounder but positionally bad as a defender and a very limited offensive player. They can't take on that kind of a contract on it's own. That's not why they got under the cap

    10. Tyson Chandler -- Has a $12.7M player option for next season which he's certain to pick up. Could the Knicks swap him for his pal, Eddy Curry? The main thing would be to get Chandler healthy and running hard like he did with Chris Paul in New Orleans. Him next to a Bosh or Stoudemire would make for a long front line.

    11. Erick Dampier -- If Haywood stays in Dallas, they might not need to keep Dampier, who has one year left at $13M. On 35 year old knees, he's breaking down for sure, but he does provide toughness and size and, playing next to Dirk Nowitzki, he knows how to play that role if the Knicks also get a Stoudemire or Bosh.

    12. Kurt Thomas -- Had success playing for D'Antoni in Phoenix and is a throwback to the days of tough Knick defense. He's always willing to battle and you can't have enough of those type of people in your locker room. Age (37) obviously an issue so to rely on him as a starter would be a mistake. But if you go small, young and athletic with your starting five, it wouldn't hurt to bring in Dirty Kurtie off the bench.

    13. Brad Miller -- About five or six years ago, this would be a good move. Miller was a very good mid-range shooter, a smart passer and rugged defender in the paint who wasn't afraid to mix it up. But at 34 years old lumbering around the court, he looks like a player ready to retire. As a low-cost backup? Perhaps. As a starter? Pass.

    14. Shaquille O'Neal -- He can hardly stay on the court against the athletic Joakim Noah and while his size and strength are great to have around just as a bouncer, it doesn't make a great deal of sense for the Knicks to go this route unless they have serious talent in other positions and just want to overload on star power. But he's more or less a guy who gets in the way and you have to play around him.

    15. Jermaine O'Neal -- Not the direction the Knicks want to go in, either. J-O has put up decent numbers with the Heat but doesn't at all fit in the up-tempo, quick ball movement style D'Antoni wants to play and doesn't even look like he loves to play. He lived with being third-fiddle in Miami behind Wade and Michael Beasley and perhaps recognizing where he is in his career, he'd accept being a role player for a cheap price next to prime stars.

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    Veteran Paul1355's Avatar
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    We don't have many options for a legit Center

    Unless we sign Haywood or get Kaman/Okafor then we really don't have a starting Center that can play big minutes and do damage in the post

    Not good

    We have to draft some big men

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    I think the knicks should be patient and wait for Curry's contract to expire and then look at the available centers in 2011 like gasol, noah, horford, foster (even though they are restricted) they're young too. I'll pass on the centers available this summer like haywood.
    I like the idea of tyrus at powerfoward though

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    The Knicks are Back DaTPRiNCE's Avatar
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    after camby resigned the best option for us at C and who i want is Okafur he plays defense and can get a few low post shots a game and he rebounds wont be a bad option to go with

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by DaTPRiNCE
    after camby resigned the best option for us at C and who i want is Okafur he plays defense and can get a few low post shots a game and he rebounds wont be a bad option to go with
    Biedrins is better when healthy. He's dropped way out of favour in GS and has been injured. He's bigger and equally as active, but is a gamble.

    I think talk of centers is bringing on an infinite migraine.

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    Kaman gets injured a lot, which makes him a risk for the amount he is being paid.

    We do not have many good options, so at this point I guess its best to go with the cheapest option. Why spend a lot on something that will most likely not work out?

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    We don't have many options for a legit Center

    Unless we sign Haywood or get Kaman/Okafor then we really don't have a starting Center that can play big minutes and do damage in the post

    Not good

    We have to draft some big men
    Even if we did get a legit center...

    history and common sense tells us D'Antoni wouldn't know what to do with him anyway!

    It'll be: limited minutes or limited plays (pick & roll) or out of position etc...

    matter of fact I'm thinking...

    We can clearly see who's wearing the pants within this org by the signings and roster we field next season.

    If the Lee's and Bosh's of the world are playing Center for us and the Gallo's and Chandlers are Power Forwards- then its D'Antoni.

    If we play "conventional" players at their PROPER positions... it's Donnie. We'll see...

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    In fact... I would venture to say D'Antoni would rather play Two Power Forwards that increase "scoring" opportunities than a conventional center who doesn't score as much.

    Like a college team he would rather play either 2 PF's and 2 SF's and try and reinvent the wheel than show us he knows the game and values defense.

    I believe common sense dictates WE CANNOT EXPECT A GOOD BIG MAN HERE ANYTIME SOON WHILE D'ANTONI IS HERE.

    Since his arrival we've had what...at LEAST 8 moves and we have acquired how many legit bigs?

    NONE!!!!! We tried settling for 2 ten day contract- D leaguers for crying out loud! And to boot...

    this schmuck even tried Lee for the whole season while jettesing a limited but legit big... maybe two of them.

    I would love one... but to expect a real legit big after what I've witnessed is crazy. Yet another reason he needs to go.

    we're building this unconventional roster for this unconventional coach that produces conventional loses due to lack of defensive valuing! Peace!

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    Veteran StEpHoN_mArBuRy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    In fact... I would venture to say D'Antoni would rather play Two Power Forwards that increase "scoring" opportunities than a conventional center who doesn't score as much.

    Like a college team he would rather play either 2 PF's and 2 SF's and try and reinvent the wheel than show us he knows the game and values defense.

    I believe common sense dictates WE CANNOT EXPECT A GOOD BIG MAN HERE ANYTIME SOON WHILE D'ANTONI IS HERE.

    Since his arrival we've had what...at LEAST 8 moves and we have acquired how many legit bigs?

    NONE!!!!! We tried settling for 2 ten day contract- D leaguers for crying out loud! And to boot...

    this schmuck even tried Lee for the whole season while jettesing a limited but legit big... maybe two of them.

    I would love one... but to expect a real legit big after what I've witnessed is crazy. Yet another reason he needs to go.

    we're building this unconventional roster for this unconventional coach that produces conventional loses due to lack of defensive valuing! Peace!
    Strong 594th post son.
    Last edited by StEpHoN_mArBuRy; Apr 22, 2010 at 15:49.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by StEpHoN_mArBuRy
    Strong 594th post son.
    Good looks.

    if we get LBJ or CP3- all's well that ends well.

    we wind up with Brad F*cking Miller and relying on Gallinari...

    whoa... I can't even imagine!

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    Veteran LJ4ptplay's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Red
    In fact... I would venture to say D'Antoni would rather play Two Power Forwards that increase "scoring" opportunities than a conventional center who doesn't score as much.

    Like a college team he would rather play either 2 PF's and 2 SF's and try and reinvent the wheel than show us he knows the game and values defense.

    I believe common sense dictates WE CANNOT EXPECT A GOOD BIG MAN HERE ANYTIME SOON WHILE D'ANTONI IS HERE.

    Since his arrival we've had what...at LEAST 8 moves and we have acquired how many legit bigs?

    NONE!!!!! We tried settling for 2 ten day contract- D leaguers for crying out loud! And to boot...

    this schmuck even tried Lee for the whole season while jettesing a limited but legit big... maybe two of them.

    I would love one... but to expect a real legit big after what I've witnessed is crazy. Yet another reason he needs to go.

    we're building this unconventional roster for this unconventional coach that produces conventional loses due to lack of defensive valuing! Peace!
    Christ dude. We get it. You don't like D'Antoni. That is all you post about. Almost every thread here is taken over by you, sometimes completely changing the topic, stating your dislike of D'Antoni.

    It's getting old and tiresome. Try commenting on something else.

    News Flash!! D'Antoni is not going anywhere for at least another year. So get over it. I really don't want to see every thread, for the next year, filled with complaints, by you, about D'Antoni. Move on or shut up.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; Apr 22, 2010 at 18:58.

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    Member Knicker23's Avatar
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    in case you haven't noticed, we haven't really been "going after" anyone of late...so when you hone in on a center, it's not really much different than any other position at this point...perhaps you can make a point after this off season if we don't pick up anyone..


    you're crazy though if you think Donnie isn't going to go after a big man/seek defensive minded people as well.. i don't think Donnie's stupid.. he knows what he needs to get, what teams need to win.

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    TYPE-A Red's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Christ dude. We get it. You don't like D'Antoni. That is all you post about. Almost every thread here is taken over by you, sometimes completely changing the topic, stating your dislike of D'Antoni.

    It's getting old and tiresome. Try commenting on something else.

    News Flash!! D'Antoni is not going anywhere for at least another year. So get over it. I really don't want to see every thread, for the next year, filled with complaints, by you, about D'Antoni. Move on or shut up.
    Newsflash...

    we're on a forum where we post our opinions. You just posted one and now you want to tell me what to do?

    Fu*k You! Like apples motherf*cker...

    How bout' those?

    Or how about you direct your frustration regarding MY PERSONAL OPINION towards everyone else who said the same instead of waking me from my slumber to address your garbage...

    which I might add you posted instead of YOUR opinion on the topic.

    Don't play me n*gga... play lotto.

    Anyway f*ck you and f*ck D'antoni! You mad b/c you blindly support a coach who is ruining thi team right infront of your eyes.

    Who knew you could type with my d*ck in your mouth? Very talented. Now get off!

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    Well, despite injuries, Kaman's the best fit under the system already in place. And even though that slary number is high, it's only two more years and it'd be a good excuse to dump Curry. Unless of course more changes come in (roster, coaching -- Gallo's the only returning starter) and then everything is up in the air.

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    Kaman would fit well but I think Okafor would be a better choice if we could find a way to get Darren Collison from the Hornets as well.

    Kaman's a pretty good player but I don't think Okafor is that much worse. If a slight downgrade at Center would allow us to get a huge upgrade at PG, then I'd say it's worth it. Trading for Okafor+Collison would get us not only a PG but a C as well, filling two positions that we have a massive hole at. If we get a good PG in Collison and a solid shotblocking center in Okafor then all we really need is another wing player and we're back in business.

    Collison
    Chandler
    Gallinari
    Lee
    Okafor

    That's not really a bad team. It's not a GREAT team, but it's a team that can compete for a #8 playoff spot.

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