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Thread: Altruism in animals

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    And I will refer you here which for some apparent reason all the evolutionists on board here seem to be inconspicuosly absent.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Because it is something you copied and pasted from a religious website. This website takes quotes out of context and completely misrepresents the facts. Essentially lying. I have shown this to you before. All of those quotes from Leakey and other famous scientists are taken out of context and misrepresent what they are saying. Do I really need to show every quote again? I did this a while ago and exposed this before.

    I always find it interesting that religious people have to lie and be dishonest in order to make their opponents claims seem false. Kind of makes you wonder why they would have to do that. And what their motivation is. How ironic it is for the self proclaimed moral being telling others they are immoral, yet lying in the process.

    The only argument you have is that scientists are lying and making stuff up. This is an expected claim coming from someone that takes bible quotes out of context and makes bold statements without bothering to know or research the facts.

    And it is also expected from someone who has no clue about the scientific community. About how much evidence is needed and the rigorous scrutiny applied in analyzing that evidence is required for theories to be accepted.

    But since the religious community is typically making claims without evidence and then running from scrutiny, they think everyone adheres to those principles.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Because it is something you copied and pasted from a religious website. This website takes quotes out of context and completely misrepresents the facts. Essentially lying. I have shown this to you before. All of those quotes from Leakey and other famous scientists are taken out of context and misrepresent what they are saying. Do I really need to show every quote again? I did this a while ago and exposed this before.

    I always find it interesting that religious people have to lie and be dishonest in order to make their opponents claims seem false. Kind of makes you wonder why they would have to do that. And what their motivation is. How ironic it is for the self proclaimed moral being telling others they are immoral, yet lying in the process.

    The only argument you have is that scientists are lying and making stuff up. This is an expected claim coming from someone that takes bible quotes out of context and makes bold statements without bothering to know or research the facts.

    And it is also expected from someone who has no clue about the scientific community. About how much evidence is needed and the rigorous scrutiny applied in analyzing that evidence is required for theories to be accepted.

    But since the religious community is typically making claims without evidence and then running from scrutiny, they think everyone adheres to those principles.

    I have a friend I speak with regularly about this, who is a lot smarter than you are that says some of the things in the article are taken out of context, but in the same token it does lend to more accuracies than any other religious posting he's seen by far.

    I'll take his word over yours. You're a evolutionary zealot. You can't even be open to the possibility of being incorrect. That's a sheer lack of humility.

    Meanwhile, things like the supposed times square bomb threat(I have serious issues with it) keep making it easier and easier for the gov's to start restricting religious freedoms. What happens when a real bomb plot does not get foiled? Banning religion, thats what. Who will you give the credit to for the death of religion?

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    I have a friend I speak with regularly about this, who is a lot smarter than you are that says some of the things in the article are taken out of context, but in the same token it does lend to more accuracies than any other religious posting he's seen by far.

    I'll take his word over yours. You're a evolutionary zealot. You can't even be open to the possibility of being incorrect. That's a sheer lack of humility.
    You can't even admit that you were wrong about altruism in animals. You have never admitted being wrong about anything. I, on the other hand, am willing to accept a god existing. The burden of proof is on you.

    And again, doesn't it make you question it if they have to take the quotes out of context in order to try and prove their opponents wrong? This should be a warning sign to you to not take their material at face value. It shows they have ulterior motives. They are not concerned about debating the facts but more concerned with their views.

    You say god exists and evolution is false. Going against all evidence. The onus is on you to prove the facts wrong. Give me one piece of irrefutable evidence that refutes evolution. Not something made up by a religious website but something actually supported by data that refutes evolution. Meanwhile, I have mountains of irrefutable evidence refuting your religion. So again, the burden of proof is on you, since you don't accept the evidence. Prove it wrong.

    I take the time to read your bible quotes and prophecies, understand them, put them in the appropriate context and argue against them. All you do is copy and paste from religious websites. You make wild claims without evidence and don't even bother to take the time to make sure they are factual. You still have not even cited the Josephus quote where he said only Christians fled Jerusalem for no apparent reason. All you do is copy and paste from religious websites. You don't bother to understand anything, just make claims about it and bury your head in the sand.


    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Meanwhile, things like the supposed times square bomb threat(I have serious issues with it) keep making it easier and easier for the gov's to start restricting religious freedoms. What happens when a real bomb plot does not get foiled? Banning religion, thats what. Who will you give the credit to for the death of religion?
    Religion will not be banned in this country if a bomb goes off. How come religion wasn't banned after 9/11? This country is very religious. One of the most religious in the industrialized world. Religion will only go away when people like you begin to realize that god isn't coming down to destroy them. That will take a while. Eventually people will see it is just made up when it still hasn't happened. That, and the continued education and increasing knowledge about genetics, the universe and the natural world that completely contradict religion.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; May 05, 2010 at 14:44.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    And I will refer you here which for some apparent reason all the evolutionists on board here seem to be inconspicuosly absent.
    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    So you can't explain the fossil records that clearly show the existence of evolution. It further shows the bible is flawed considering there were hominid beings long before man and long before any fabled Adam and Eve. I could care less if you want to perpetuate your willful ignorance in the face of empirical data...good luck in your never ending search for Jesus.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    So you can't explain the fossil records that clearly show the existence of evolution. It further shows the bible is flawed considering there were hominid beings long before man and long before any fabled Adam and Eve. I could care less if you want to perpetuate your willful ignorance in the face of empirical data...good luck in your never ending search for Jesus.
    You showing me differing monkey skulls in comparison to differing human skulls do not constitute evidence for evolution. All that shows me is that there is a gradual change according to that specific kind of species. Which is why I laugh at the pompousness you guys show, because Jehovah took care of this in the very first chapter of his book.

    Gen 1:24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so.

    This verse explains why we see variation from one species to another. Why neanderthal may have had smaller bodies and bigger heads, yet still be every bit as human as we are. Because it must remain part of it's kind!!!!!!!

    Which is why I always ask for the half ape half man species. Because that would effectively end the debate for me. You showing me big monkey skulls that get smaller or vice versa and match them with human skulls of similar size means nothing! Other than the fact that those types of humans had big heads. But so does my son.

    The reason you cannot produce a half ape half man species (missing link) is because there is none! Not because evolution does not work that way(the most convenient excuse for such a supposed proven theory). Monkey's are monkey's man is man. Period.

    There is no mountain of irrefutable evidence. It is just hopes and dreams. Now that said, enjoy your life of hopelessness if you choose.

    But ya'll are gonna be maaaaaaaaaaad when you realize you had a chance at life but declined because you believed you transitioned from a monkey.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    You can't even admit that you were wrong about altruism in animals. You have never admitted being wrong about anything. I, on the other hand, am willing to accept a god existing. The burden of proof is on you.
    Jehovah could smack you in the face and it would not change your tune any. His written word is available in every language on earth and his people give free home bible studies to all interested. You're not. So you've rejected the offer.Therefore you are not willing to accept God.

    You found one super dog and come in here as if it's the constant. What about the ones that don't exibit it? They are the anamoly?

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    And again, doesn't it make you question it if they have to take the quotes out of context in order to try and prove their opponents wrong? This should be a warning sign to you to not take their material at face value. It shows they have ulterior motives. They are not concerned about debating the facts but more concerned with their views.
    I don't agree that they are taking there quotes out of context. That is what you and my boy are saying. He at least is rational enough to see the points being made by the other side. You are just convicted and think the religious are out to getcha!

    Bottom line the minute diff in the fossil record show a changing of one type of species. If you choose to take that for evolution, more power to you. But if the kind of species itself is not changing, how have they evolved? It's still the same species!! So the head is bigger, smaller, wider, whatever. How is that not just a variation of a species, rather than evolution?

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    You say god exists and evolution is false. Going against all evidence. The onus is on you to prove the facts wrong. Give me one piece of irrefutable evidence that refutes evolution. Not something made up by a religious website but something actually supported by data that refutes evolution. Meanwhile, I have mountains of irrefutable evidence refuting your religion. So again, the burden of proof is on you, since you don't accept the evidence. Prove it wrong.
    What evidence? The tried and true test of strength of numbers????? You kidding me? Hypothesis? The tried and true accuracy of carbon dating? All of these things are just accepted as accurate. Mainly by those who wish to put faith in evolution. You put a ton of faith in imperfect man, which if you think about it, is crazy in itself! There are scientists who disagree with the methods used to determine the widely accepted views of evolution. But they are stupid to u. There is no proving anything to you about science, because you know it all. You will simply disagree with anyone who disagrees with you.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I take the time to read your bible quotes and prophecies, understand them, put them in the appropriate context and argue against them. All you do is copy and paste from religious websites. You make wild claims without evidence and don't even bother to take the time to make sure they are factual. You still have not even cited the Josephus quote where he said only Christians fled Jerusalem for no apparent reason. All you do is copy and paste from religious websites. You don't bother to understand anything, just make claims about it and bury your head in the sand.
    The joke here is you saying you put the prophecies in the bible in the appropriate context. How can you do this when it takes God's Holy spirit to even accurately interpret the bible? You think you have Jehovah's spirit upon you to accurately interpret his word, when you do not believe he exists? I mean all throughout the Bible the ones who accurately understood God's word and did any sort of teaching were believers of God and did his will. Each person who did not do God's will could not expect his spirit upon them. For instance the Pharasees were the teachers of the word in their day, yet they perverted God's word for personal gain and tradition and Jesus called them out for it and corrected them! HE had God's spirit. Which is why he could teach accurately and effectively. But you... YOU buck the trend? Because your mind is that brilliant, that you don't need God's spirit? Correction: You're shown the truth of God's word through the bible and then you pervert it with your imperfect human philosophy. Why so? Because the view I try and teach harmonizes with God's entire word. Yours is bent on disproving it's accuracy. You will NEVER get it understood that way. Don't care how many degrees you have.

    Let's see, who was killed and captured by the Romans in the siege? Jews. Christians fled to the mountains. This is secular history. You can do that footwork yourself. And they did not leave for no apparent reason, they left because they heeded Jesus warning to flee when they saw Jerusalem surrounded almost three years before the actual siege. So they did. Therefore they survived. The Jews died or were slaves. Secular history.




    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Religion will not be banned in this country if a bomb goes off. How come religion wasn't banned after 9/11? This country is very religious. One of the most religious in the industrialized world. Religion will only go away when people like you begin to realize that god isn't coming down to destroy them. That will take a while. Eventually people will see it is just made up when it still hasn't happened. That, and the continued education and increasing knowledge about genetics, the universe and the natural world that completely contradict religion.
    You are nuts. If they start a car bomb barrage in this country in the name of religion you can bet your ass something unthinkable will be done. Funny thing is the Bible says the world will be in shock when it happens because of how quickly it will unravel. You will be in shock. Then you will know it just began to rain... And that there is a Jehovah who u have to answer too... Like it or not.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    You showing me differing monkey skulls in comparison to differing human skulls do not constitute evidence for evolution. All that shows me is that there is a gradual change according to that specific kind of species. Which is why I laugh at the pompousness you guys show, because Jehovah took care of this in the very first chapter of his book.

    Gen 1:24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so.

    This verse explains why we see variation from one species to another. Why neanderthal may have had smaller bodies and bigger heads, yet still be every bit as human as we are. Because it must remain part of it's kind!!!!!!!

    Which is why I always ask for the half ape half man species. Because that would effectively end the debate for me. You showing me big monkey skulls that get smaller or vice versa and match them with human skulls of similar size means nothing! Other than the fact that those types of humans had big heads. But so does my son.

    The reason you cannot produce a half ape half man species (missing link) is because there is none! Not because evolution does not work that way(the most convenient excuse for such a supposed proven theory). Monkey's are monkey's man is man. Period.

    There is no mountain of irrefutable evidence. It is just hopes and dreams. Now that said, enjoy your life of hopelessness if you choose.

    But ya'll are gonna be maaaaaaaaaaad when you realize you had a chance at life but declined because you believed you transitioned from a monkey.
    That is not what Genesis 1:24 means. Once again, you are misinterpreting the bible. It means God is creating many kinds of animals. Not animals according to their species.

    24 God said, "I command the earth to give life to all kinds of tame animals, wild animals, and reptiles." And that's what happened. 25God made every one of them. Then he looked at what he had done, and it was good.

    Just like in 11:

    11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds."

    Which means:

    11God said, "I command the earth to produce all kinds of plants, including fruit trees and grain." And that's what happened.

    And furthermore, God didn't create domestic animals which it states in 24. We did. Through artificial selection. This is more proof that the bible is not inspired by God. God would have known that he didn't create domesticated animals.


    And again you are misunderstanding the pictures Trill posted. They are not just size, like your child's head. It is structure. Although your son has a big head, it's structure is identical to every single human's, as are his genetics. It is a human head. A Neanderthal's bones and skull structure are different from human's. It's genetics are different too. It was not human. It was very close. Enough so that humans and Neanderthal could mate with each other. Much like a horse and zebra can mate. Different genetics, same genus, different species. Just like human and Neanderthal. But the two were different. They had language, tools, made fire and clothing but they were not human.

    I've shown this to you a million times. There is a mountain of irrefutable evidence. You say it is just hopes and dreams, yet you can't find a single piece of verifiable data that contradicts evolution. Yet you still can't accept it. You still can't even admit you were wrong about altruism.

    Go ahead and continue to bury your head in the sand. You will have wasted your entire life and ruined the lives of others simply because you are a stubborn fool. You will see in 10 years when God still hasn't come down. You will see.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; May 05, 2010 at 21:19.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Do things of your own accord. You never showed a half man half primate remains in any of your post. Why? Because its never been found. Point blank. Don't lie to yourself.

    And you def never tackled Isa 2. But I'm done too.
    I was watching a documentary the other night about a half-man half-ape skeleton that was undergoing tests at present. Just saying.

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    Jehovah could smack you in the face and it would not change your tune any. His written word is available in every language on earth and his people give free home bible studies to all interested. You're not. So you've rejected the offer.Therefore you are not willing to accept God.

    You found one super dog and come in here as if it's the constant. What about the ones that don't exibit it? They are the anamoly?

    I don't agree that they are taking there quotes out of context. That is what you and my boy are saying. He at least is rational enough to see the points being made by the other side. You are just convicted and think the religious are out to getcha!

    Bottom line the minute diff in the fossil record show a changing of one type of species. If you choose to take that for evolution, more power to you. But if the kind of species itself is not changing, how have they evolved? It's still the same species!! So the head is bigger, smaller, wider, whatever. How is that not just a variation of a species, rather than evolution?

    What evidence? The tried and true test of strength of numbers????? You kidding me? Hypothesis? The tried and true accuracy of carbon dating? All of these things are just accepted as accurate. Mainly by those who wish to put faith in evolution. You put a ton of faith in imperfect man, which if you think about it, is crazy in itself! There are scientists who disagree with the methods used to determine the widely accepted views of evolution. But they are stupid to u. There is no proving anything to you about science, because you know it all. You will simply disagree with anyone who disagrees with you.



    The joke here is you saying you put the prophecies in the bible in the appropriate context. How can you do this when it takes God's Holy spirit to even accurately interpret the bible? You think you have Jehovah's spirit upon you to accurately interpret his word, when you do not believe he exists? I mean all throughout the Bible the ones who accurately understood God's word and did any sort of teaching were believers of God and did his will. Each person who did not do God's will could not expect his spirit upon them. For instance the Pharasees were the teachers of the word in their day, yet they perverted God's word for personal gain and tradition and Jesus called them out for it and corrected them! HE had God's spirit. Which is why he could teach accurately and effectively. But you... YOU buck the trend? Because your mind is that brilliant, that you don't need God's spirit? Correction: You're shown the truth of God's word through the bible and then you pervert it with your imperfect human philosophy. Why so? Because the view I try and teach harmonizes with God's entire word. Yours is bent on disproving it's accuracy. You will NEVER get it understood that way. Don't care how many degrees you have.

    Let's see, who was killed and captured by the Romans in the siege? Jews. Christians fled to the mountains. This is secular history. You can do that footwork yourself. And they did not leave for no apparent reason, they left because they heeded Jesus warning to flee when they saw Jerusalem surrounded almost three years before the actual siege. So they did. Therefore they survived. The Jews died or were slaves. Secular history.






    You are nuts. If they start a car bomb barrage in this country in the name of religion you can bet your ass something unthinkable will be done. Funny thing is the Bible says the world will be in shock when it happens because of how quickly it will unravel. You will be in shock. Then you will know it just began to rain... And that there is a Jehovah who u have to answer too... Like it or not.
    I will again ask you to provide verifiable data. Once again, you only state your opinion without knowledge of the facts or providing contradictory evidence. You always take the lazy way out.

    The burden of proof is on you. You can't just say "it's an anamoly", or "scientists are wrong". I provide evidence. You are supposed to provide verifiable data that supports your side. You can't say only Jehovah's special people can interpret the bible. That's a cop out.

    Provide evidence that only Jews died in Jerusalem. Provide evidence that only Christians fled. I provided actual historical and factual information on the seige, cited with links containing contradictory facts that many jews and christians fled and their reasons for doing so. You only provided wild statements backed up by nothing. You can't just say Jews died, Christians didn't, it's history. Provide actual historical information that agrees with this theory.

    In earlier threads, you said Josephus said that only Christians fled for reasons he was not aware. I searched the Antiquities and did not find it. Provide the citation so it can be verified.

    This is how science works. One side provides a theory and their findings/data that support their theory. This data is then tested, studied, scrutinized, repeated and then verified. If the data/theory does not withstand this process, it is rejected. Anyone still opposing the theory is then required to provide data that contradicts the theory.

    This is why your side fails every time. You only provide opinions. Nothing verifiable. Opinions are like *******s, everybody's got one. I don't need to hear yours anymore. Provide evidence. If you can't, then keep your mouth shut on the subject.
    Last edited by LJ4ptplay; May 06, 2010 at 09:01.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    I was watching a documentary the other night about a half-man half-ape skeleton that was undergoing tests at present. Just saying.
    Can you please provide the information on this documentary? I am very much interested in looking into this. I know there is no such thing as a half-man half-ape, that is not how evolution works. It is a gradual change over an immense period of time.

    It would be funny though. K4lyfe did say he would give up his religion if he could see one.

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Can you please provide the information on this documentary? I am very much interested in looking into this. I know there is no such thing as a half-man half-ape, that is not how evolution works. It is a gradual change over an immense period of time.

    It would be funny though. K4lyfe did say he would give up his religion if he could see one.
    Yeah that was just a loose description

    Gonna have to look back through the TV guide, anyone know a place which has retrospective TV listings?

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    Originally Posted by Knicks4lyfe
    You showing me differing monkey skulls in comparison to differing human skulls do not constitute evidence for evolution. All that shows me is that there is a gradual change according to that specific kind of species. Which is why I laugh at the pompousness you guys show, because Jehovah took care of this in the very first chapter of his book.

    Gen 1:24 And God went on to say: “Let the earth put forth living souls according to their kinds, domestic animal and moving animal and wild beast of the earth according to its kind.” And it came to be so.

    This verse explains why we see variation from one species to another. Why neanderthal may have had smaller bodies and bigger heads, yet still be every bit as human as we are. Because it must remain part of it's kind!!!!!!!

    Which is why I always ask for the half ape half man species. Because that would effectively end the debate for me. You showing me big monkey skulls that get smaller or vice versa and match them with human skulls of similar size means nothing! Other than the fact that those types of humans had big heads. But so does my son.

    The reason you cannot produce a half ape half man species (missing link) is because there is none! Not because evolution does not work that way(the most convenient excuse for such a supposed proven theory). Monkey's are monkey's man is man. Period.

    There is no mountain of irrefutable evidence. It is just hopes and dreams. Now that said, enjoy your life of hopelessness if you choose.

    But ya'll are gonna be maaaaaaaaaaad when you realize you had a chance at life but declined because you believed you transitioned from a monkey.
    1. A JW or evangelical has no place accusing anyone of pompousness. Both groups are defined by their pompousness and certitude and will plow through science and reason to stick to their guns.

    2. Those sculls are not just different sizes but rather different SPECIES nor are they the only evidence of evolution. You can actually look at the pelvic bones of several ape to hominid species and see the transition from animals that walk on all fours to that of upright bipedal species like human beings.

    3. Another evidence of the concept of evolution is that whales have pelvic bones telling us that they evolved from a land mammal that had legs.



    4. Just because the missing link has not been found does not prove it did not exist. Has Noah's ark been found? (excluding current theory of the mountains in Turkey) Have the tablets Moses first wrote the 10 commandments been found? Using your litmus test one can conclude that these too are myth since they have yet to be found. Funny how you chose to believe what you want when it suites your narrative. The difference is that there is overwhelming evidence suggesting that a link must exist while your beliefs are based solely on faith.

    5. It's funny that you speak of evidence when your beliefs are all based on faith. There is no evidence of a monotheistic all knowing god of Abraham yet you are willing to devote your life and eternity to that belief. A belief based on stories that have already been proven to be written by man and changed many times along the course of history.

    6. I am GOING to be mad? Really? How do you say that with such certitude? There is that pompousness again rearing it's ugly head. You actually think if I don't believe the way you do that I am somehow inferior and doomed to be miserable. How judgmental of you!

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    1. A JW or evangelical has no place accusing anyone of pompousness. Both groups are defined by their pompousness and certitude and will plow through science and reason to stick to their guns.
    Fault me for believing the bible to be accurate based on it's harmony,prophecy and revelation of Jesus Christ. I will take the word of a perfect man vs the findings of imperfect science which change every 10 years or so.

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    2. Those sculls are not just different sizes but rather different SPECIES nor are they the only evidence of evolution. You can actually look at the pelvic bones of several ape to hominid species and see the transition from animals that walk on all fours to that of upright bipedal species like human beings.
    Still they are of a specific species. So it is as the bible says, according to their kinds.

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    3. Another evidence of the concept of evolution is that whales have pelvic bones telling us that they evolved from a land mammal that had legs.

    Why does that tell us so?

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    4. Just because the missing link has not been found does not prove it did not exist. Has Noah's ark been found? (excluding current theory of the mountains in Turkey) Have the tablets Moses first wrote the 10 commandments been found? Using your litmus test one can conclude that these too are myth since they have yet to be found. Funny how you chose to believe what you want when it suites your narrative. The difference is that there is overwhelming evidence suggesting that a link must exist while your beliefs are based solely on faith.
    I will agree with that assessment. However, based on the fact that the fossil record provides no true evidence of one, I will conclude it does not exist. It's funny though that the scientific community, with all of it's major data and scrutiny have just basically closed there eyes and said "the link must exist" and even if they never find it it's there. That sounds a lot like blind faith that they accuse religious people of having for believing in a God they can't see. Ironic. Since when is a bunch of bones of specific species, one to the next, certifiable proof a link "MUST" exist? That just sounds at best, like an educated guess.

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    5. It's funny that you speak of evidence when your beliefs are all based on faith. There is no evidence of a monotheistic all knowing god of Abraham yet you are willing to devote your life and eternity to that belief. A belief based on stories that have already been proven to be written by man and changed many times along the course of history.
    The proof is his word, the proof is the fact that the seed promised to Abraham, was born through his bloodline and that proof is Christ Jesus. He lived, he told his story, his voice is still heard today. Who's name holds more sway than Jesus'? Darwin? Dawkins? And the stories have not changed. The whole written by man thing is very weak too. Everything you believe is due to mans search and wisdom. Can't understand why it's so bad Jehovah used men to write his word. Because you think it's a bad idea?

    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    6. I am GOING to be mad? Really? How do you say that with such certitude? There is that pompousness again rearing it's ugly head. You actually think if I don't believe the way you do that I am somehow inferior and doomed to be miserable. How judgmental of you!
    Who knowing they are about to be in severe trouble with authorities for stealing say candy, would not be upset it was over something petty? Now imagine having had your whole life to learn about God and be saved, to actually see the end come and know it's by God, you gonna be absolutely cool with that? You will shrug your shoulders, smile and say "it's all good!"? No. There will certainly be angst. Not judging you... Call it an educated guess!

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    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    That is not what Genesis 1:24 means. Once again, you are misinterpreting the bible. It means God is creating many kinds of animals. Not animals according to their species.

    24 God said, "I command the earth to give life to all kinds of tame animals, wild animals, and reptiles." And that's what happened. 25God made every one of them. Then he looked at what he had done, and it was good.

    Just like in 11:

    11 Then God said, "Let the land produce vegetation: seed-bearing plants and trees on the land that bear fruit with seed in it, according to their various kinds."

    Which means:

    11God said, "I command the earth to produce all kinds of plants, including fruit trees and grain." And that's what happened.
    What bible have you cited here please?

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    And furthermore, God didn't create domestic animals which it states in 24. We did. Through artificial selection. This is more proof that the bible is not inspired by God. God would have known that he didn't create domesticated animals.
    This is irrelevant.


    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    And again you are misunderstanding the pictures Trill posted. They are not just size, like your child's head. It is structure. Although your son has a big head, it's structure is identical to every single human's, as are his genetics. It is a human head. A Neanderthal's bones and skull structure are different from human's. It's genetics are different too. It was not human. It was very close. Enough so that humans and Neanderthal could mate with each other. Much like a horse and zebra can mate. Different genetics, same genus, different species. Just like human and Neanderthal. But the two were different. They had language, tools, made fire and clothing but they were not human.
    Neanderthal was absolutely human to many scientists. If it can mate with us, it is of our kind. Unlike a monkey which we cannot mate with. So, I'd have to conclude that Neanderthal was a kind of human. Unlike a monkey who is a kind of simian.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    I've shown this to you a million times. There is a mountain of irrefutable evidence. You say it is just hopes and dreams, yet you can't find a single piece of verifiable data that contradicts evolution. Yet you still can't accept it. You still can't even admit you were wrong about altruism.
    Mountains of evidence that convince you. You saying neanderthal is not human but can mate with us sounds ridiculous to me. Cuz you can't go knock up your friendly neighborhood gorilla anytime soon. Why? Because you are not the same kind. Period.

    Originally Posted by LJ4ptplay
    Go ahead and continue to bury your head in the sand. You will have wasted your entire life and ruined the lives of others simply because you are a stubborn fool. You will see in 10 years when God still hasn't come down. You will see.
    First, God is not coming down. He can accomplish everything where he sits. And yes... We will see.

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    Fault me for believing the bible to be accurate based on it's harmony,prophecy and revelation of Jesus Christ. I will take the word of a perfect man vs the findings of imperfect science which change every 10 years or so.
    You can believe what you want but to assert your beliefs as facts is where I take issue. You call me pompous but display such certitude when everyone, even religious figures acknowledge that one must have FAITH. A reliance on faith as is needed for religion infers that there is not empirical evidence for proof.

    Please show me with specific quotes from the bible alongside real life events that prove that the bible was prophetic. I am not talking about ambiguous prophecies that can be interpreted in a myriad of ways...I am talking cut and dry prophecies that have come true. Further explain why the modern world is absence of God's divine power. Where are the prophets, where are the giants, where are the burning bushes? Why is everything in the past?

    Still they are of a specific species
    Specific species that evolved into modern man over millions of years.

    Why does that tell us so?
    Why would a sea creature have the remnants of a pelvic bone needed for walking on land if it had not EVOLVED from a previous land mammal? The answer, it wouldn't.

    I will agree with that assessment. However, based on the fact that the fossil record provides no true evidence of one, I will conclude it does not exist. It's funny though that the scientific community, with all of it's major data and scrutiny have just basically closed there eyes and said "the link must exist" and even if they never find it it's there. That sounds a lot like blind faith that they accuse religious people of having for believing in a God they can't see. Ironic. Since when is a bunch of bones of specific species, one to the next, certifiable proof a link "MUST" exist? That just sounds at best, like an educated guess.
    You act like scientists came up with a theory and aren't actively going about searching for the evidence. As we speak there are archeologists and scientists digging away in search of the link. Further, their hypothesis is based on supporting evidence and not based on having faith. Big difference!

    The proof is his word, the proof is the fact that the seed promised to Abraham, was born through his bloodline and that proof is Christ Jesus.
    No, that is not proof. That is faith that what you were told is true. Prove that Jesus is a direct descendant of Abraham. Further prove he is the son of God. You can't...you can only chose to believe.

    He lived, he told his story, his voice is still heard today.
    So did Homer, King Tut and Ceaser. Just because Julius Ceaser was a real human and his story has survived for thousands of years does not mean that Shakespeare's play was an accurate portrayal.

    Who's name holds more sway than Jesus'? Darwin? Dawkins?
    In 2000 years a predict Darwin will hold just as much if not more sway over Jesus. His concepts arguably will have just as much of an impact on the course of human history as those of Jesus.

    And the stories have not changed.
    Of course they have:

    1. JW version of the bible and King James differ.

    2. Emperor Constantine completely edited the bible while retaining many pagan beliefs easing the transition from paganism to Christianity.

    3. Whole gospels have been erased from history or excluded from the bible.
    etc
    etc

    The whole written by man thing is very weak too. Everything you believe is due to mans search and wisdom. Can't understand why it's so bad Jehovah used men to write his word. Because you think it's a bad idea?
    Notice your logical leap..."Jehovah used men to write his word" Based on no evidence other than man's word. Is Jehovah using scientists to advance man's wisdom and knowledge?

    Who knowing they are about to be in severe trouble with authorities for stealing say candy, would not be upset it was over something petty? Now imagine having had your whole life to learn about God and be saved, to actually see the end come and know it's by God, you gonna be absolutely cool with that? You will shrug your shoulders, smile and say "it's all good!"? No. There will certainly be angst. Not judging you... Call it an educated guess!
    If there is a god then I will be accepted because I am a good and moral person. To think one can sin, murder and rape yet be forgiven just by accepting Jesus is an ideology I want no part of.

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