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Thread: Your best off season moves for the Knicks based on the projected 2010 cap

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Default Your best off season moves for the Knicks based on the projected 2010 cap

    What is YOUR best off season moves for the Knicks based on their cap space and the projected 56.1 Million cap for the 2010 season.

    If the projected cap numbers stick, this will leave the knicks with a few possible salary scenarios and everything being equal; this is MY best lineup and the numbers to make it work.
    The Knicks will have 17.7 mill on the books for 2010 so that will leave them about 38.4 mill under the cap. They also have 2 trade exceptions valued at 3.27 million that can be added to the cap giving them roughly 41.6 mill to play with. The Knicks can either sign 2 Max salaries and have nothing left to spend beside the league minimum and Curry's expiring contract to fill out their roster or they can do a combination of 1 max free agent and 2 mid level agents plus use Curry's expiring contract to nab another mid level guy or use the whole cap to sign 4-6 mid level guys.... Looking at the what guys are on the market (either as free agents or being shopped around) I think the Knicks should take advantage of this market and sign 1 max (Only if that is LaBron or Dirk Nowitski) and 2-3 mid level guys and here is my wish list.

    Starting off with 42.6 million plus Curry's 11.3 remaining contract:
    Sign and trade David Lee for Tony Parker
    Why? In Dantoni's system he needs a pure 1; someone that can general the floor and Tony Parker is the best available guard to do it and he is a top PG in the NBA; a opportunity that doesn't come often.
    Parker has 13.5 Mil left on his contract and I would see if SA does a straight Lee for Parker sign and trade deal. we will say Lee is sign for the exact amount as Parker for easier math (reality it would be a give or take by a mil or 2).

    42.6 - 13.5 = 29.1

    Trade Curry's expiring contract to NO for Okafor.
    Okafor 2010 salary is 11.5 and Curry is is 11.3
    Okafor is a defensive big man at 6' 11" and I would move him back to his natural position at the 4 and with his strength and quickness combo, he should be tremendous force at the 4.

    We end up loosing about 1 mill on the deal leaving us with 29....

    Sign Tyson Chandler for 5 years 50 million and back load it so first year is 8 mil and that is what counts towards the 2010 cap.

    If Chandler is close to healthy he is a 7' 1" 5 that is versatile and a shot blocking machine. With Chandler at the 5 and Okafor at the 4, they are quick enough to run with Dantoni's offense and able to defend their positions.

    This will leave us with 21 Million.

    Try to sign LaBron. If LaBron signs out right for the max, that would be 5 years @ 96.2. That divided by 5 is 19.24 a year. If the Kicks back loaded the contract, they could knock that down to about 17 mil towards the 2010 cap.
    That would give the Knicks around 4 mil to still fill out the roster.
    If the Knicks work out a sign and trade deal with Cleveland to sign LaBron to the Team max 6 year 126 Mil or 21 mil a year; the Knicks could still back load it and knock that number down to about 19 mil for 2010 leaving the Knick 2 Million to fill out the roster. The Knicks could try to include a player in the deal, like Chandler @ 2.1 mill and keep in mind that id they renounce the rights to Rodriguez they get back 2.8 mil and then he is an unrestricted free agent.

    Worst case scenario (LaBron @ 6 years salary):
    Starters
    Chandler
    Okafor
    Gallinari
    James
    Parker

    Bench
    Wilson Chandler
    Tony Douglas
    Walker
    Giddings

    4.9 Mil to fill out the rest of the spots (Based on the fact there is no way they keep Rodriguez).

    Best Scenario (James at 5 year salary):
    Starters
    Chandler
    Okafor
    Gallinari
    James
    Parker

    Bench
    Wilson Chandler
    Tony Douglas
    Walker
    Giddings

    8.9 Mil to fill out the rest of the spots (Again, based on the fact there is no way they keep Rodriguez).

    Depending on the remaining cap space, I would try to sign Drew Gooden to come off the Bench for the 5/4 spots or even see if we could land Ray Allen with the remaining money.

    I think we will get the most bang for our buck this way and this team would make it to the finals!!
    Last edited by hometheaterguy; Jun 14, 2010 at 15:32.

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    That is well beyond the dream scenario love it add barron alston then two drafts maybe a third and ur playoff contender

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    Member bboycustom92's Avatar
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    I love this idea... problem is it sticks up in long term for no more adjustments... We'll be stuck under the salary cap for a couple years. So hopefully it works out well and the knicks win some titles and not just be like Cleveland.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by bboycustom92
    I love this idea... problem is it sticks up in long term for no more adjustments... We'll be stuck under the salary cap for a couple years. So hopefully it works out well and the knicks win some titles and not just be like Cleveland.
    If this team remains healthy and You structure everything correctly, you would be a top team in the NBA for the next few years regardless so if you can't sign a free agent, you are not hindered by that based on the strength of you team. You could even use the remaining money to lock up chandler or and/or walker for the next 5 years....
    Plus, remember if you are over the cap you still get a mid-level exception to sign a free agent as well as the league minimum; that's for ever and ever or until they change the collective bargaining rules and remove the mid-level exception.
    The Mid level can nab a decent player or a Veteran looking to go to a contender to win...

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Also, keep in mind that Joe Johnson made it clear that he would love to play for Dantoni again and is not looking for the max; so that might net you another 3-5 mil back as well....

    No James Scenario:
    Starters
    Chandler
    Okafor
    Gallinari
    Joe Johnson
    Parker

    Bench
    Wilson Chandler
    Tony Douglas
    Walker
    Giddings
    Ray Allen and/or Drew Gooden

    I love it and would go to WAR with this lineup!! I would lock up either Wilson or Walker.. Depending on which and how much you could still sign say Ray Allen and then sign barron

    8.9 Mil to fill out the rest of the spots (Again, based on the fact there is no way they keep Rodriguez).

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    Default Backloading Contracts

    As a practical matter you cannot backload a max contract. There is a limitation on per year contract increments. The current team can offer six year contracts and annual increases that are 10.5 % of the first contract year salary. The max first contract year for a veteran -- 7 years or more -- is 30% of the cap. If the cap is $56M, 30% is $16.8M. So the first year salary is $16.8M, the second year is $16.8M plus $10.5% of $16.8 -- $1.764M-- or $18.564. The third year would be $18.564M plus $1,764M etc.

    If a free agent goes to a new team without a sign and trade, the new team can only offer a 5 year contract, with yearly increments at only 8% or perhaps 8.5%.

    A "max" contract by definition includes the "max" increments.

    It is for this reason that our ability to sign a free agent will be somewhat dependent on our ability to do sign and trades. LeBron can make up any difference with increased endorsement opportunities in New York. i am not sure Bosh could do it.

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    uhhh..maybe im mistakin.. ot.. but didnt see a line that htg says to back load a max deal.. only tyson chandlers deal..

    however.. i dont like a tyson chandler.. okafor lineup... no offense at all... would rather have lee and baron instead

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Oldtimer
    As a practical matter you cannot backload a max contract. There is a limitation on per year contract increments. The current team can offer six year contracts and annual increases that are 10.5 % of the first contract year salary. The max first contract year for a veteran -- 7 years or more -- is 30% of the cap. If the cap is $56M, 30% is $16.8M. So the first year salary is $16.8M, the second year is $16.8M plus $10.5% of $16.8 -- $1.764M-- or $18.564. The third year would be $18.564M plus $1,764M etc.

    If a free agent goes to a new team without a sign and trade, the new team can only offer a 5 year contract, with yearly increments at only 8% or perhaps 8.5%.

    A "max" contract by definition includes the "max" increments.

    It is for this reason that our ability to sign a free agent will be somewhat dependent on our ability to do sign and trades. LeBron can make up any difference with increased endorsement opportunities in New York. i am not sure Bosh could do it.
    My numbers were pretty close since I was just going off the top of my head and I was also trying to keep rounded numbers. If you were to run the numbers I would probably be within an acceptable margin of error. The point I was making is that the Knicks are in a great position to make some moves if they sign 1 max contract; there are quality players that can fill out the team and make it a tremendously well rounded team.
    It would behoove the Cavs to sign and trade James if he is dead set on leaving so they can get something back. The Sonics did it with Lewis and got a unprotected pick for it. If the Cavs want a player back as well; then that just helps out our cap situation even more. One of my scenarios was a sign and trade and I believe my numbers were pretty close; I was just trying to get the number that would affect the 2010 cap.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Does anyone have a better scenario to post?

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    Eddy Curry for Deron WIlliams

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    Evacuee Crazy⑧s's Avatar
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    Exclamation And what if you exclude Lebron James?

    And without The King? Doesn't look too pretty does it?

    I'll throw in for the sake of it. Without much consideration.... of some potential/likely/unlikely scenarios that can be adjusted etc. All of which exclude James and exclude the bench. Any teams with Tony Parker exclude Lee. Not advocating Tyson Chandler either.

    1 - Douglas
    Joe Johnson
    Gallo
    Lee
    Tyson Chandler

    2 - Tony Parker
    Walker/Morrow
    Gallo
    Bosh
    Biedrins

    3 - Douglas
    Walker/Morrow
    Gallo
    Lee
    Biedrins

    4 - Tony P
    Walker/Morrow
    Gallo
    Amar'e
    Tyson Chandler

    5 - Douglas
    Joe Johnson
    Gallo
    Lee
    Biedrins/Tyson Chandler

    Tony P
    Ray Allen
    Gallo
    Tyrus T
    Biedrins/Tyson Chandler

    Collison
    Joe Johnson
    Gallo
    Lee
    Okafor

    It's a veritable orgy of different line ups. I'd have to run with #2 and #4 as the best of the lot without LeBron James.

    I do want to keep Lee and TD23.

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    I would rather have Dwyane Wade than Lebron James. The Knicks are flooded with small forwards(Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Al Harrington, Bill Walker, Tracy McGrady).

    Plus, Wade > Lechoke both talent wise and experience wise.

    I don't think the Knicks are getting either of those guys, but if I had to choose, I'd pick Wade over James.

    But I wouldn't hate on Lebron, if he came to the Knicks. I'd support the signing 100%.

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    0% chance Harrington and Mcgrady are on the Knicks next season. Walker/Chandler are bench players. Gallinari can move to PF worst case. They'll make room for Lebron if he signs here...don't worry.

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    Default 2010 Roster

    HomeTheatreGuy and Crazy8s have interesting scenarios, with Crazy8s' focus on a roster without LeBron.

    I think it is a good idea to consider rosters with LeBron James and without LeBron James. But if its with LeBron, I don't really care because Bosh or some other top player is likely to follow. If it's without LeBron, then I have no idea because there are too many possible combinations.

    There is an old line -- "if you do not have an alternative, then you do not have a problem." I think LeBron has a "problem" because he has alternatives in front of him.

    In my view, he has three real alternatives. First is to stay in Cleveland. If LeBron signs with his home team, it will not have the space to sign another top player -- they will not be a championship team. But if he leaves Cleveland, his image will take a beating. He will be a pariah at home.

    Second, is to go to Chicago. I will accept Chicago as the place where he is more likely, at least in the short run, to win championships. But Rose, though a terrific player who is likely to get better, needs the ball and is not a great complement to LeBron, And Chicago is still Jordan's town. LeBron is not likely to win 6 titles and will always play in Jordan's shadow. And I just do not see him going to Miami or the Clippers.

    Third is the Knicks. We can sign a second max who will complement LeBron and with a second max we would certainly have a better roster than Cleveland. I think we have a good shot. The competition is Cleveland and home cooking.

    LeBron knows what his choices are, but I am afraid that he will delay a decision because of indecision and that is going to create problems wih respect to a second max.

    There was a phrase I recently came across --"Buridan's ass." The "ass" is the animal, not the body part. Buridan is Jean Buridan, a fourteenth century French philospher. The phrase is a denigration of purely rational thought. The suggestion is an ass standing between two equal piles of food. The ass must find a reason to start at one pile or the other, but there is no rational basis for choosing one over the other. So the ass starves as he tries to make the decision.

    At some point LeBron is going to have to bite the bullet and make the decision. Unfortunately, he is probably going to enjoy the limelight as he ponders. If LeBron did not have that "loyalty" weight on his shoulders, I have no doubt that he would move toward the bright lights of basketball's mecca.

    As for our roster without LeBron, there are just too many possible combinations and permutations. We will have money to spend, but not assets, other than Lee for a short period, that can be used in sign and trades.

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    On a side note, apparently Walker showed up to the practice facility and is already 15 pounds lighter (according to Alan Hahn's twitter).

    Gotta admire that work ethic of his.

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