this was found on a warrior website, postall angry arrior posts here
we won big in this tade...bigge than any of you may imagnie
Grading The Deal: Knicks Convert Lee Into Randolph, Turiaf, Azubuike
Authored by Daniel Leroux - July 9, 2010 - 1:32 am
After much speculation and hand wringing, the deal is finally done. No, this one is not about a King, leisure suits, or championships. Rather, two teams that havenít made the playoffs more than twice in the last decade made a deal on Thursday that will substantially change the future of both franchises in the immediate as well as the long-term.
As it looks right now, the Golden State Warriors traded Anthony Randolph, Ronny Turiaf and Kelenna Azubuike for a signed and traded David Lee.
There are a few different angles on it, so letís get down to business.
For the Knicks, they are getting back a combination of potential and current production for a guy they were going to let go anyway.
Randolph will be the most important player as far as New York goes, and his development is heavily clouded in uncertainty right now. Every once in a while we saw a flash of absolutely amazing play from Randolph, whether it was a short term thing like an amazing block with a sprint down for a dunk or a game where he put it all together. One of his biggest challenges will be deciding what his game is as a player since he has no bread and butter. He has the athletic ability and tools to be good at a wide variety of things, yet is the master of none for now.
If Iím Mike DíAntoni and the Knicks, I would be working with him on a reliable mid-range jumper on the offensive end and weak-side shot blocking on the defensive end: not the perfect complement for Amare that way, yet they are the parts of his skill-set that Randolph can get up to speed the quickest so he can contribute out there.
On the other hand, I can tell Knicks fans exactly what they are getting from Turiaf and Azubuike.
Azubuike is best as an effort rotation guy- he has the tools to be a very good defender and could thrive in a system where he only shoots open looks when the defense sags, sort of like a rotation player version of Trevor Arizaís role on the 2008-09 Lakers team.
Turiaf is a strange fit in DíAntoniís system, but is a very good defender and rebounder while also being a simply awesome teammate. This will come up more later, but there is no one more fun to have on the sidelines and the locker room than Turiaf, and he can be a valued contributor on the court as well.
The other legacy of this trade will be if and how it affects the Knicks going forward as it pertains to the cap. While New York was likely to lose Lee anyway, both Randolph and Turiaf will be on the books for 2011-12 barring the unforeseen. While their total amount is a little over $6 million, we learned today that a little can go a long way when it comes to major free agents. Iím guessing it will be worth it considering both guys are on reasonable contracts right now and will contribute, but it is a point that must be mentioned.
Grade for the New York: B
For the Warriors, letís start out with this: I like David Lee. Heís not a bad player, seems to play hard and appears to be a good guy. He is also the best player in this trade, as he should be in a 3-for-1. The problem here is that Golden State is paying him $13 million dollars a year and he is not even the second-best player on a team that could make the Conference Finals, which should be the measure of a $13M man in the current CBA, much less the worse one for players coming down the pike in 2011.
Unless the team moves both Andris Biedrins and Monta Ellis for expiring scrap (and they shouldnít now), they have likely committed to a core of Stephen Curry, Ellis, Biedrins, and Lee for the next 3-4 years with zero cap flexibility until Steph Curry comes up for an extension in 2013.
What makes this move so depressing is that those four as the best players on a team likely does not even put the Warriors in the playoffs next year, much less down the line when teams like Sacramento gel and still have money to spend and the older teams on the list still havenít declined enough for Golden State to overtake them.
At the beginning of the off-season, I was terrified the Warriors would blow the team up (minus Curry) for the new ownership, and this result is even worse than that because the team is nearly destined to be in the ď76ers Zone,Ē a term I use to describe teams that are too good to get lucky in the lottery and add major talent but not good enough to make any sort of impact in terms of the playoffs. Philly was in this bind for a long, long time and tried to get out of it by overpaying Andre Iguodala and Elton Brand. Worked out well.
One vision for this team would have been to get it to the new owner with a core of Curry, Randolph, Udoh (I guess), Turiaf, and Buike if he wanted to come for cheap. That team would have cost around $14M altogether and had the flexibility to either pull a Camby-esque deal or actually get a free agent. It also would have allowed the team to be patient and both stick it to teams while they had cap space a la Oklahoma City and wait for the right fits to come along (like OKC again or Portland). Alas, management has decided to go in a different direction.
Beyond that, the Warriors depth was what made this team work last year, to the extent that it did. While both Azubuike and Randolph were hurt for much of the season, their versatility and energy made the team hard to defend and the three players who left in this deal included two of the three on the team that were actually good defenders and Randolph who has potential on that end due to his length and energy.
They replaced those guys with David Lee who can spell defense, but hasnít played a lick of it in at least the last six seasons. One remarkable thing about Lee is that I attended his best performance of last year (at Oracle where he dropped 37/20/10): the Knicks lost that game by 11 and Monta, Biedrins, and Randolph all did not play that night.
There is a distinct chance that this works out for Golden State, especially if they are willing to be more conventional and play Lee and Biedrins together for periods of time (and Iím sure weíll see lots of Lee and Udoh as well). I just canít shake the feeling that it was a gigantic mistake to take three guys on reasonable contracts who all made sense with a long-term vision of the team to overpay the ever-loving hell out of a single player who is good, but not great, on the offensive side and abysmal defensively. I hope Iím wrong with every fiber of my being.
Grade for Golden State: D+
As a final note, there is also some personal anguish here because as someone who covered the Warriors for much of last year, I saw what these guys, particularly Ronny Turiaf bring to the table off the court. We see a ton of media pub for the guys who are squeaky wheels or prima donnas, especially when they are more notable off the court. I did not get to spend much time with Randolph because he was hurt so much, but Kelenna and Ronny were both class acts that were great with the media, including yours truly while more importantly being great teammates. Seeing Turiaf interact with Curry was one of the highlights of my Warriorsí locker room visits and wish all three former Warriors the absolute best of luck going forward. Take care, fellas.
this was found on a warrior website, postall angry arrior posts here
we won big in this tade...bigge than any of you may imagnie
Nice to be the ones doing the robbing instead of getting robbed for once.
If I was a Warriors fan I'd be pissed too.
Take Turiaf out and the trade is still a win for the Knicks.
WAsn't 2 of the players hurt last season???? What were the injuries???
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:06 pm
Riley said we wouldn't trade Randolph unless we got a really good player for him. How is trading Randolph, Turiaf AND Azubuike for Lee a good deal for us? We trade away our two best shot blockers and get a player who couldn't block a 5'5'' female player. We also take on Lee for six years and $80m. Way to give Ellison a great start and way to give the fans one last "present".
When I thought things couldn't get worse...
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 1:12 pm
I think this trade is godawful. If we were in a "win now" situation it would be one thing, but we have no realistic shot at a playoff seed this year so why do this?
Kawakami just said we could have previously had Kevin Love for Randolph. Wouldn't that move have made more sense?
We are overpaying a guy who is one of the worst defenders in the league and who got all those rebounds because Knicks had no other rebounders. This is an awful trade for us. We give away a player who could be something really special one day, a decent backup center/the best teammate in the NBA and Azubuike who was probably our best defender (remember how he was always put to guard Kobe?) for a player who's stats are inflated from playing on a bad, uptempo team and being the only half-good player on the team.
I hate this trade...
I am so sad right now. Not due tot he fact that we're getting David Lee (That's pretty cool.) But, we're letting go Azubuike and Randolph.. Turiaf? Okay. But why must we trade Randolph??!?!?!? I am losing all hope.
I might go buy myself a Westbrook or Durant jersey after this trade is done.
"He’s a terrible defensive player. That is not arguable with me. He just lets people dribble past him consistently. He’ll go grab the rebound if they miss, but he won’t affect whether or not the guy misses.
I’ve gone over this in the previous item: If Lee’s such an awesome rebounder, why did the Knicks grab a better percentage of rebounds when Lee was OUT than when he was IN the game the last two seasons?"
Lee got a whole lot of rebounds because Knicks didn't have any other rebounders. Just like Biedrins gets more rebounds when playing for Warriors than he would if he were playing for a better team.
Warriors struggled with rebounding last season because Biedrins played 33 games, Turiaf 42 games, Randolph 33 games and Wright 0 games
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:42 pm
Im so happy warriors get to overpay a guy basically more offensively refined shorter Troy Murphy. He practically stat-padded last season for a contract and will get it. At least Don Nelson got himself a real starting caliber center who could shoot 3s.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 2:45 pm
I just don't have the words for how ****ed off I am right now..... typical braindead Warriors trade.
How about giving the bloody kid (AR) a chance to play for once.
Ok, we need defense, AR is already miles better, but lets just go for some more offense despite the fact that we already are one of the higest scoring teams in the league.
Ok, we need rebounding, well how about playing two bigs at the same time... ARs per 40 numbers already compare with Lee. I bet you AR will be bigger, stronger and have better rebounding numbers in two short years.
At that stage Lee will be 30, declining and still locked up for another 4 years at 16 mil per. That's great.
If Ellison has agreed to this, well your off to a great start.
Warriors go fys. We just got done over by.... the Knicks.
PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 11:12 pm
This trade sucks!!! Trading Montae for Deng is even worse!!! I just can't believe how many people want Ellis gone on this forum. I guess 25 points 5 assists an 4 rebounds is worth giving up for someone a few inches taller. Unbelievable!!!
The worst thing about this trade is we could have gave up a far lot less considering the Knicks could not possibly keep Lee. I don't think Randolph should have been involved
I like Azubukie (too lazy to look up spelling) From what I am hearing he is a really good perimeter defender with good size and athleticism, something the Knicks really needed. (hopefully he can shut down Le****sucker) Chandler is all but gone now IMO.
We got younger, more athletic and better defensively. This move compliments the STAT acquisition perfectly. Our frontcourt is one of the best in the lague now and Randolph will only get better. Turiaf seems to have been a steal. I'm loving this trade.
P.S. Their contracts being more than reasonable is huge. We are under the cap with young players, expiring contracts and a legit star. Thank you Donnie!
Honestly, I don't know that a team exists that can match up with us at 4-5 if Randolph plays well...
PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:29 am
Wow................was really hoping this wouldnt go down.
1 - Just watch Randolph blow the sh*t up now..............in 2-3 years hes going to be a 22-11-3.5 gazelle like beast.
2 - Once again............weve traded the heart and soul of our team, Ronny..............we will miss you Moses.
3 - What kind of F'ed up sense does it make to be emptying our team of its big contracts, in return for literally nothing.............only to sign a very over blown/inflated one straight back?................jesus, the Maggs trade, as much as I wanted him gone, atleast they could have TRIED to get a nice little prospect or SOMETHING but no, instead of reasoning the giving away of him for nothing with the needing of cap space (in terms of years).
And thats what is pissing me off the most about this trade...............the fact that we are supposed to be preparing for new wnership, and then these vile retards go and make a HUGE financial committment to Lee...........for 13 A SEASON!!!!.............ridiculous.
As for him.................blah blah blah he may be a 20-10 guy, nice................but big men who cannot block shots annoy the hell out of me and I find quite useless.
Sorry, have to say this, yeah he averaged what he did last year................but the Knicks focussed on him so much! who the hell else did they have to rely on in any way
Schadenfreude is a beautiful thing.
Randolph really is a gazelle like beast (in the making), too.
I still can't help but think we are (another) year or two away from being able to make noise in the playoffs, but this trade really was good from a variety of angles.
Walsh did real nice on it, and as the first essential move in the post-Lebron era, it bodes well.
What kind of trades can we now make with Chandler as we have Azzy? I wonder...
If we can ensnare Parker/KahnPG using Chandler and a pick as a base....sign Morrow and Tyrus with our remaining cap:
Wow. Now that's a team that could slay LeBastard and the rest of the leauge. Deadly. For years to come.
I love this trade!!!! I thought we needed to move DLee in order to be able to compete now and in the future and this trade makes so much sense for the knicks. We now have DLee - but 7 years younger + 2 defensive guys that also happen to be great locker room glue, all on cheap/reasonable contracts.
This will help solidify our core team for some time to come. I look forward to seeing stat and randolph in the paint pushing bitch ass bosh around. I think they would even out preform Dwight Howard if AR turns into the player we hope he is. Add us a few ball handler/facilitator types and Gallo continues to improve and we can compete this season as well as into the next 5 years. Miami might have made out with the big noise this year, but they will have to get by the Knicks in order to get the eastern championship. We won't make it easy for them.