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quoted for truth
Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
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al should eat vaseline real quick... he's having a cheapsneakersyndrome attack!
Originally Posted by p0nder
After the last two season of coaching with not one "design play" other
then 3-ball shooting, a coach that forces players to be individual offensive players to
get points in the paint, plus not producing a set zone defense to get back
on, and u calling me pessimistic ................
I wrote David Lee ceiling is as high as Amare.
We all know Amare is a high scorer (with Nash), and Lee is not.
Lee have other team contributions in his performance inwhich we
all seen consistently for 4 years straight that Amare do not have in
Although, Amare may have the edge over Lee but its not that much
when it comes to team performance.
So many NBA fans is waiting to see Amare without Nash.
Have u watched the Bobcats the past 5 years?
I doubt it.
u got it twisted with Nate Robinson, for five years Nate has never been
in the same lineup of players on this Knick roster.
Nate's job has been coming off the bench with every new player
added to the Knick roster or rotation.
And still Nate's performance each season were better than a
starting Felton whom had the same players in his lineup.
What it balls down to are all losers fans/players/coaches always look for a scapegoat/someone else to take the blame.
Yes' I mention Darko as a Starter, and I felt his rebounding and
great-passing skills wouldve been a decent starter in a lineup with
PF-Lee, SF-Chandler, SG-Hughes, PG-Duhon.
That was suppose to be the Knicks 82 game starting lineup last season.
But Damntoni decided to TANK the season by putting Gallo in the starting lineup which resulted in the worst start in the history of the Knick organization (1-11 start).
Darko/Curry/Duhon are decent starters but poor finishers,
so they are 18 to 24 mpg role players on a team.
Starting is one thing, its your finishers that win games.
For u to say Jordan Hill is a project which I do agree,
but guess what? so is Gallo/Randolph/Walker/and Douglas.
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Gallo was working out nearly everyday in Italy with his phisician, to add strengh in his back and working on his game too...
Originally Posted by Oldtimer
no pick up games to avoid contacts while his back was under stress for heavy work outs.
No doubt he we come back stronger and less vulnerable.
We tried to trade for Felton last year and Larry Brown admitted that "he just couldn't trade that heart." Brown loves Felton, just wasn't in love with the price tag. Plus, they may have felt it was time to let DJ Augustine run the show (with a cheap Livingston brought in for insurance).
Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
If Chris Duhon was a shortstop and we called him Julio Lugo, Raymond Felton would be Troy Tulowitzki!
Just look at when he played the Knicks. He looked like Deron Williams, eating Duhon alive!
Felton will play defense, and on most nights he'll have the edge (b/c he's big, fast, stronger than most PGs); he'll battle b/c he has heart and competitive fire. He's a natural leader and he can score.
Some believe he'll be like a bird set free in this new SSOL offense. Averaging close to 18 ppg. Even if you don't buy into that potential, you have to admit that he's LIGHT YEARS ahead of Chirs Duhon.... ERGO the 2010 New York Knicks are a better team. You need a PG like you need an ace SP and a QB in the NFL. They're that important. We had NONE for two years.
NO OFFENSE> None taken at'all.
Originally Posted by Kiyaman
However, I wholeheartedly disagree with one thing: Comparing Nate Robinson to Raymond Felton is like comparing Ted Lilly to Mariano Rivera....
You're correct, Nate Robinson is the better scoring guard.
Here's what happened when we played the Bobcats at the beg. of last season (Game #3):
Felton: 22 points, 8 rebounds, 9 assists, 1 turnover, 2 steals.
Duhon: 13 points, 4 rebounds, 8 assists, 5 turnover, 1 steals.
N8: 17 points, 6 rebounds, 3 assists, 3 turnover, 0 steals.
The next time we played, Felton & Duhon had nearly identical games (aside from Felton having 4 mroe steals), while Robinson was a DNP. Of course, like the first game.... CHA won both games.
In the 3rd game, Felton exploded for 27 points, 7 rebounds, 9 assists, 3 turnovers, 2 steals. He badly outplayed Duhon (N8 was another DNP).
In the 4th head-2-head matchup, Felton had an off night. Scored 10 points, with 9 assists, 4 rebounds, 2 turnovers and 4 steals. Robinson had 10 points and 7 turnovers and 1 assits. Duhon had 10 points and 6 assists, 3 turnovers and 1 steal.
Let's look back to March of the year before, when Felton came into MSG and led CHA to a victory. He had 19 points, 10 assists, 6 rebounds & 5 turnovers. Duhon had 5 points & 3 assists. N8 had 20 points, 4 assists & 3 turnovers.
GET THE POINT? Whenever the two teams met, Felton was clearly the better play on the court. ATE DUHON for lunch, and was BETTER than Robinson. 5 game sis not a fluke. It's a reality!
In their careers (although Felton averages 10 more minutes played per game)
Nate Robinson: 12 ppg, 2.7 assists / 1.5 turnovers / 0.9 steals
Felton: 13.3 ppg, 6.5 assists / 2.6 turnovers / 1.4 steals
CLEARLY, Robinson is a better, more prolithic scoring machine; but he's also a bonehead with the basketball IQ of a snow pea. For every 30+ night explosion, there are countless evenings where he makes dumb passes, shots balls at his own basket, and simply wont even both to play defense.
YES. I said it. Dude has too much athleticism to be such a joke on defense. N8 is not nor will he ever be a PG. He wont make people better, he wont create for others....
AND... for my money.... consistently... night in and night out, I'll take Felton with the game on the line. Robinson could be so hot he's pouring in 20 points in the 4th quarter, but give him the rock with 15 seconds left and down by 1 point and I guarantee you his team is walking back to the locker room with the LOSS.
AS FOR DARKO. I also agree he should have been the starting C from Day-1. He was young enough, and a former lottery pick, where he should have been afforded an honest shake on this team heading nowhere. Darko-Lee should have been the C/PF duo, even if we got owned down low (we did anyway).
Chandler is not a SG. He's best when he's playing PF. I know its odd, but it is what it is. Hughes was our best SG last year, and maybehe should have played more..... but we do not know what goes on behind the scenes. Hughes wears out his welcome everywhere, so why not point the finger at him?
"Harrington veteran experience/first step off the dribble/overall IQ is ten times better than Randolph."
HUH? He cost us TWO games for showing off and hanging on the rim. AND, they are completely different players. AL averaged 6 points and 2 rebounds a game in his 2nd season. Randolph averaged 11 ppg & 6 rpg in his 2nd season. Freaking Randolph just turned 21 years old. He's making less than 2 million. AL is a perimter player, while Randolph plays in the post. I'll sign up for Randolph's future over AL's present. PLUS, he's an asset we might use to get a star here....
Randolph & Felton PLAY DEFENSE! We harp about that, but now we bemoan replacing N8 and Al with these two players? Sure, they cannot score like them, but they are more COMPLETE basketball players. Watch-learn-trust.
I might concede that Hughes is better than Azubuike. Maybe. Although I feel AZ will show he's also better (if healthy).
I think Gallo and Chandler will be happy to pick up the scoring load. N8 & AL scored and only looked for their points. Gallo & Wilson will step up, and having players like Felton-STAT around will make them better.... Duhon/N8-AL did not make them better..... Would not lead.... HENCE why we barely won 29 games, while Felton & STAT reached the playoffs.
"Everybody’s on the same page. The two guys that I came in with, Amar’e and Raymond, I worked out with them a little bit in Vegas. I honestly feel like everybody that’s on this team right now wants to get better, wants to work hard and win games, point blank." (Anthony Randolph)
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Kiya i agree D'Antoni is really overrated as a coach, but i believe that certain coaches can excel with certain teams. Last year we couldn't run cuz Duhon just isn't athletic.
Our team now is athletic as hell at all positions now, with really no black holes (it could be Anthony Randolph....which is why i want a stricter coach). We can run, have good length, and have a decent facilitator now in Ray Felton. We may not have enough creators or shooting, especially at midrange, but we are definitely a playoff team now.
Last year we had pieces playing together that just didn't make sense.....
Originally Posted by Kiyaman
Well, say what you want about plays these past two years. I may not have watched the bobcats the last 5 years, but I did watch the Suns. And I know D'antoni has good offensive schemes that he just could not and would not use with our team. Also, Zone defense is not a great defense for the NBA especially when you don't have a shut down defender in the paint or a PG that pressures the ball well. Either way I expect that sub patterns, and plays in crunch time are dramatically improved this year now that we have a real PG.
David Lee has a very high ceiling, and he has not reached it yet, but I still give a substantial edge to Amar'e in every factor of the game, from defense to passing ability to aggressiveness and clutch performance, Amar'e is a go-to guy that can start and finish. Many NBA fans might be watching to see if Amar'e will falter without Nash. But I know many knicks fans will be watching GSW and David Lee to see how he does outside of a system designed to maximize his effectiveness. I expect his numbers to drop dramatically unless he has increased a piece of his game like he did last off season with his jumper.
I liked Nate but he was never going to be a starting PG on this team and probably not in this league. As Mafra broke down for you, Felton out performed Duhon and Nate in all of their match ups. Felton is a big upgrade over Duhon and nate as a PG.
On paper, yes Darko as a starting C makes sense, But Darko has a bad attitude and a poor work ethic. He is alos an unproven player and could have worked his ass off in practice to make it to the starting line up but i suspect he did not prove himself and felt more that he was owed something., I wouldn't blame D'ant for not playing a guy like Darko who has a warped sense of entitlement.
Last year D'ant and Donnie came out and said that the season was about developing their young players (chandler, gallo, TD) those guys got plenty of court time and gallo especially got some knowledge, being put in to defend against some of the most prolific scorers in the league and doing a good job of it.
Over all it is hard to see why people might think this squad would do worse then last years team. I can not wait for them to come out of the gate and show what they are about. Many of our players now play defense. They work together as a team, they want to work hard to get better and to get the knicks to the next level... There was only one guy last year who had that kind of drive and that was Al Harrington.
This year we have rejuvenated the young guys and surrounded them with real talent. All the positions that we had we have improved in. We have a solid bench with depth at every position. We have a starting PG who has taken his team to the playoffs. We have a Superstar PF who can take over games. We have a Chandler and Gallo who have another year of playing under their belt. The only position that we moved laterally may have been SG, and that is being generous to Hughes. A guy known to be a locker room distraction and a streaky performer at best.
All of that improvement and we STILL have flexibility and room to grow next year.
I wonder how quick al harrington messes up the chemistry of the denver nuggets
can you imagine the look on coach Karl's face in the 4th quarter
when JR smith and AL harrington are sitting on the bench because he cant play them together due to CArmelo not getting the ball enough.
its going to be priceless
not even billups can prevent the Chuck mastery of these two ball hog felons.
Better yet wait until Harrington takes 12 shots in the 4th quarter, 9 of them 3's, and makes maybe 3 shots total. Then watch Karl's face as Harrington does that in the span of 4 minutes LOLG
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I hope your right. My Show-Me-State roots prevent me from believing it before I see it. Coming from the team that paid "Starbury" 20 million dollars a year, I don't trust thier judgement.
Originally Posted by mafra
Mafra.....u can not win the Nate vs Felton war using statistics of
Knicks vs Bobcats.
Everyone of the members in this forum agreed Duhon is a "tier-3 PG"
inwhich ran the point for the Knicks the past two seasons.
Felton averaged 35 mpg the last 5 years running the point for the
Bobcats being tandem in the backcourt with SG-Richardson/SG-Jackson.
And the Bobcats winning record within those 5 years were 26/32/33/35/44.
We all know the 44 wins this season was based on Steven Jackson running
the point in the 4th quarter, he did it for the
Nate Robinson do have some crazy antics in the lockerroom but on the
court N8 is all bussiness. In Nate's 5 years with the Knicks he averaged
23 mpg compared to Felton's 35 mpg.
Nate was never given the luxury of having a SG other than the short
time Nate & Crawford or Nate & Marbury came off the bench together to
win 75% of the Knicks games (with Crawford & Marbury doing all the scoring).
This is not to bash or put down Felton in anyway,
its just that I took a big interest in keeping up with the
2005 draft class PG of CP3/Deron/Nate/Felton.
Ponder.....I already notice u r a big Dantoni-fan from the Phoenix Suns.
When u shouldve been a "Steve Nash" Mavs-fan when Nash & Finley
backcourt tandem took a decade Mavs team out of the Lottery basement.
The Knicks hired headcoach Dantoni for what reasons?
2) a same-page coach
3) a coach that improve players talents
4) he was known as a respected coach by his players.
Dantoni was hired for all 4 reasons, and flunked each one in New York.
This so-call Dantoni system mention daily by Knick fans is the same system
the Dallas Mavs had with Nash/Finley/Jamison/Walker/Dirk.
Why do u think Steve Nash won the "MVP" his first two season with Phoenix?
1) having more athletic teammates in Phoenix than in Dallas?
2) being able to freelance his running style in Phoenix without coach Nelson/Avery slowing down the temple to add a design halfcourt offensive
play for peremeter shooter Dirk to score?
3) Or Dantoni 29 win season in Phoenix without Nash had him in the hotseat,
so Dantoni trained Nash in training camp all the PG moves Nash have today?
Hint: The original seven second system belong to the Jazz
Steve Nash seen the same type of teammates Stockton had on the
Jazz team on the Phoenix roster in Joe Johnson/Amare with a hustling
Marion who score off of broken plays, so Nash defined the old Jazz
system to his own style of talent.
Dantoni showed his biggest flaw as a NBA coach at the start of the
2009-10 regular season by DNP C-Darko/SG-Hughes/PF-Hill at the
start of the season that resulted in a 1-11 start record for Knicks.
The question u should be asking yourself is how good was the Knicks
when Marbury agreed to come off the bench alongside of Nate/Chandler?
Or why would u DNP one of the leagues top defensive guards Larry Hughes
in the first game of the season vs Miami's top-2 scoring guard in the league?
or even better, why would u DNP Larry Hughes vs every game vs the Cavs
and Bulls this season?
Knick-Fans are clueless of what Nate/Hughes/Douglas/Hill/Darko/and a
30lb less Curry did to coach Mike/Dan to be put in the Dantoni brothers
doghouse of DNP.
Oldtimer.....it is July, the Knicks added Amare/Randolph/Turiaf/Abu/Felton
o the Knicks roster. So far Amare/Randolph/Chandler were seen working
out together in Vegas. For Gallo to get familar with his new teammates
he should be involve with his new teammates offseason workout & scrimmage
Not show up from Italy a couple of weeks before training camp expecting
to be a starter or receive 30+ mpg.
Gallo did nothing last season in 81 games to prove he is a starter or a 30+ minute player in the NBA, other than miss one game so his teammates could go on a 4 game win streak and hold oponents under 100 points for 11 games.
The main reason why the 09 roster is better than the 2010 roster
is easy to see.
Donnie Walsh got enough players for the 09 roster to have a decent
9 to 10 man rotation of players at the start of the season.
Adding ending contract veteran role-players ready to WIN games
to up their value in the upcoming FA market.
It was not the other way around to have a losing season to decrease
their FA value.
C-Darko or Curry
PF-Lee - Hill/Gallo
SF-Harrington or Chandler
SG-Hughes - Nate
PG-Duhon - Nate/Douglas
Coach Dantoni ran a 7-man rotation throughout the 09 season.
He also ran a 6-man rotation throughout the 08 season.
Dantoni ran a 7-man rotation his 3 successful season in Phoenix.
When u look at the 2010 roster u will see it is made for a 7-man rotation.
u can pick your starting 5 players and the 3 players off the bench,
but the 8th player in Dantoni rotation never receive above 7 minutes of
playingtime making it a 7-man rotation.
Kiya; Are you suggesting that the Mav's team nash was on was worse then the suns team he went to? As far as i can see the Mav's teams were atleast, if not more, stacked then the Suns team nash went to. Nash became MVP type of player in Phx as a result of his work with D'antoni (he'll tell you so himself). Not because of the moves he showed him, but because of the system and the creative offensive plays d'ant showed steve.
ok so you honestly think that
PF - Lee
is better then:
PF - STAT
SF - Gallo
SG - Chandler
pg - Felton
Really? I don't understand. At every position we have great athleticism and improved defense. We have play makers and role players . We have 3 pt shooters, players that slash and drive, players that create off the dribble, players that move well without the ball, and players that buy into the TEAM concept. Every statistical category is improved, from fg % to blocks to steals to assists. This team is vastly improved and our record will reflect it. I expect .500 record at the very least up until the allstart break.
Barring any injuries to key players i can see us being .650 team by the end and sitting in 7th/6th... whish is a heck of a lot better then the 10th we sat in last year.
Originally Posted by p0nder
Nash averaged 34 mpg as a Dallas Mavs, Nash last two seasons with
the Mavs were 60 win and 52 win seasons.
WTF could a Euro league coach with 2 NBA years of experience as
an assistant coach teach a 8 year experience Nash.
Stop listening to PR talk.
I was not crazy about lastseason team but with any other headcoach
than Mike/Dan Dantoni we wouldve won 41+ games using a 9-man
Letting Marbury come off the bench in his final contract season
wouldve won us 10 more games in 2008.
Coaching two seasons with a personal attitude towards the players
should not get a third chance.
Example: Darko/Lee/Hill/Harrington vs Mozgov/Amare/Turiaf/Randolph
How much better is one over the other?
We were not aloud to see what a guard rotation of Hughes/Nate/Duhon
could do as a trio in any of the 82 games. why is that?
Do u really think Felton/Abu/Douglas is much better than