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Thread: Change of Heart regarding CP3

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    Default Change of Heart regarding CP3

    If we have to pick up Okafor's contract, then F this whole thing and forget about CP3. We CANNOT, under any circumstance, lose our flexibility under the cap. The more I think of it, I think the Knicks would benefit more from adding Melo than CP3. While I agree with the assertion that the NBA is no longer a big man's league, but rather a point guard's league, I have full confidence in Felton. Melo is a game changer and a borderline top 5 player. A man who is a nightmare to defend. He can physically abuse people and is an excellent mid range shooter. He can handle the ball really well, and no one-on-one defense can stop this man from scoring.

    I understand he isn't an ideal playmaker nor is a defensive stopper, but he is an over-average defensive player a good rebounder and an average passer. In other words, he does not have any apparent weaknesses. he can work well in half-court sets as well as push the ball up. He can work well with the players we have and he will also make Felton's and Amar'e's job a lot easier.

    Most importantly, we do not pick up unwanted contracts that will f our changes of picking up desirable FAs in the future.

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    The NBA isn't a point guard's league, it's a swingman's league now.

    That being said I agree with the above assertion. If we gut our team and it doesn't lead to a championship, we're left with little to improve on and are stuck with that same team forever. Amar'e + CP3, while awesome, does not yet guarantee us a title. And if we don't get a title, then we've wasted the time.

    Amar'e + Melo + CP3, on the other hand, is as close to guaranteeing a title as you can come, so I say we hold out on that one. Plus imagine if either Anthony Randolph or Danilo Gallinari becomes an all-star caliber player, then we might not even need to get another superstar via FA or trade

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    Originally Posted by shaolin
    If we have to pick up Okafor's contract, then F this whole thing and forget about CP3. We CANNOT, under any circumstance, lose our flexibility under the cap. The more I think of it, I think the Knicks would benefit more from adding Melo than CP3. While I agree with the assertion that the NBA is no longer a big man's league, but rather a point guard's league, I have full confidence in Felton. Melo is a game changer and a borderline top 5 player. A man who is a nightmare to defend. He can physically abuse people and is an excellent mid range shooter. He can handle the ball really well, and no one-on-one defense can stop this man from scoring.

    I understand he isn't an ideal playmaker nor is a defensive stopper, but he is an over-average defensive player a good rebounder and an average passer. In other words, he does not have any apparent weaknesses. he can work well in half-court sets as well as push the ball up. He can work well with the players we have and he will also make Felton's and Amar'e's job a lot easier.

    Most importantly, we do not pick up unwanted contracts that will f our changes of picking up desirable FAs in the future.
    Melo is waiting on CP3 to see what his move is. If he doesn't come to the Knicks then Melo is most likely to resign. So while I agree that the Knicks shouldn't screw up their cap situation for next year, by not getting Chris Paul they might end up with no one next year either. What good is flexible cap room, if there is no one out there to get.

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    Originally Posted by Dario8676
    Melo is waiting on CP3 to see what his move is. If he doesn't come to the Knicks then Melo is most likely to resign. So while I agree that the Knicks shouldn't screw up their cap situation for next year, by not getting Chris Paul they might end up with no one next year either. What good is flexible cap room, if there is no one out there to get.
    If I assume what you mean:

    You're saying that Melo stays in Denver if CP3 doesn't come to NY.

    That makes no sense.

    The Knicks currently have enough cap room (assuming they choose to relinquish the rights to Mozgov or Weedson Chandler next season) to offer one max contract in the off-season of 2011 (Carmelo Anthony).

    If they pick up Chris Paul, they no longer have that cap room to sign Carmelo.

    Essentially, if the Knicks trade for Chris Paul NOW, they won't have the cap room to sign Carmelo.

    In other words if we want Melo we can't have CP3 right now. Period.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    If I assume what you mean:

    You're saying that Melo stays in Denver if CP3 doesn't come to NY.

    That makes no sense.

    The Knicks currently have enough cap room (assuming they choose to relinquish the rights to Mozgov or Weedson Chandler next season) to offer one max contract in the off-season of 2011 (Carmelo Anthony).

    If they pick up Chris Paul, they no longer have that cap room to sign Carmelo.

    Essentially, if the Knicks trade for Chris Paul NOW, they won't have the cap room to sign Carmelo.

    In other words if we want Melo we can't have CP3 right now. Period.
    Let's say the Knicks do nothing. What would possibly entice Melo to come here next year. We already played that game with Lebron and look where it got us. As I mentioned before, I'm all for the trade to get CP3 IFFF... you don't have to take back okafur's contract and you still let curry's contract expire at the end of the year... If not than deal is off. But my argument is more against the people who say that it's not worth losing the talent on the team to get CP3... If all we are talking about here is losing Galo, Chandler and maybe 2 first round picks or whatever, then you do it and still have cap room for next year. CP3 isn't Marbury, he is a much better player and in my opinion is the best pg in the league.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    If I assume what you mean:

    You're saying that Melo stays in Denver if CP3 doesn't come to NY.

    That makes no sense.

    The Knicks currently have enough cap room (assuming they choose to relinquish the rights to Mozgov or Weedson Chandler next season) to offer one max contract in the off-season of 2011 (Carmelo Anthony).

    If they pick up Chris Paul, they no longer have that cap room to sign Carmelo.

    Essentially, if the Knicks trade for Chris Paul NOW, they won't have the cap room to sign Carmelo.

    In other words if we want Melo we can't have CP3 right now. Period.
    Thats not necessarily true. If we can manage to get Paul without taking on Okafor and hold onto Curry, we would have the cap space. Curry's 11 million comes off the cap, and the Knicks would be looking to trade Felton which is another 7 million. Those 2 guys right there make up a max contract.

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    Originally Posted by Suss
    Thats not necessarily true. If we can manage to get Paul without taking on Okafor and hold onto Curry, we would have the cap space. Curry's 11 million comes off the cap, and the Knicks would be looking to trade Felton which is another 7 million. Those 2 guys right there make up a max contract.
    Yes that has been exactly my point... I think most of us Knick's fans could agree that the deal is off if it screws the salary cap situation for next year, but if its essentially CP3 for Galo & Chandler, how could you not make that deal? Thats crazy!

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    Originally Posted by Dario8676
    Yes that has been exactly my point... I think most of us Knick's fans could agree that the deal is off if it screws the salary cap situation for next year, but if its essentially CP3 for Galo & Chandler, how could you not make that deal? Thats crazy!
    That would be a fine deal but the Hornets have made it known that they want cap relief, so why keep throwing out a scenario that the Hornets already shot down?

    We know what they want, we know what we have that we can give them to make them happy, we know what that does to us in the future. Why does everyone keep saying "if we can get CP3 without trading Curry or getting Okafor" when the Hornets want cap relief...which they only get from us by giving us Okafor and/or taking Curry?

    It's not really enough to have the facts and ignore them and still try to argue a point that doesn't really exist. And this isn't a personal attack on you or anyhting, I see a lot of people saying this. I just don't know why.

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    Originally Posted by Suss
    Thats not necessarily true. If we can manage to get Paul without taking on Okafor and hold onto Curry, we would have the cap space. Curry's 11 million comes off the cap, and the Knicks would be looking to trade Felton which is another 7 million. Those 2 guys right there make up a max contract.
    No, we wouldn't.

    You forget that CP3's contract counts towards the cap, and his salary next year is 16.3 million dollars. Dumping Felton and Curry's contract expiring would barely negate the salary addition of CP3. If we increase our salaries for next year by adding CP3, Curry's expiring won't get us under the cap, it'll just get us closer to it since we'd be far over the cap if we trade for Paul.

    Let's assume that the Knicks had lost Gallo, Azubuike, Chandler, and Douglas in a trade for CP3. So we take off Gallo, Chandler, and Douglas (Azubuike's contract already expired so it's not even factored into 2010).
    The Knicks would then have the following players under contract for next season:

    Amar'e: ~17.5 million it goes up each year)
    Felton: 8 million
    Mozgov: 3 mil
    Turiaf: 4.3 mil Player Option
    Randolph: 2.9 mil
    Walker: 0.9 mil

    Total: 44.9 million dollars

    That leaves us with 36.6 million dollars. Now, we have to add on Chris Paul's 16.3 million dollar 2011-12 salary.

    Leaves the Knicks with a payroll of 52.9 million dollars. In other words, not enough for a max contract. If we traded Felton, then we could get closer, but not quite closer enough unless we dumped Mozgov or Randolph (likely).

    So in other words, I do suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely. Especially since I don't think the Hornets are giving CP3 to us unless we take on AT LEAST one of their bad contracts (they want to give us Okafor, but at minimum we'll have to take Posey at the very least).

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    No, we wouldn't.

    You forget that CP3's contract counts towards the cap, and his salary next year is 16.3 million dollars. Dumping Felton and Curry's contract expiring would barely negate the salary addition of CP3. If we increase our salaries for next year by adding CP3, Curry's expiring won't get us under the cap, it'll just get us closer to it since we'd be far over the cap if we trade for Paul.

    Let's assume that the Knicks had lost Gallo, Azubuike, Chandler, and Douglas in a trade for CP3. So we take off Gallo, Chandler, and Douglas (Azubuike's contract already expired so it's not even factored into 2010).
    The Knicks would then have the following players under contract for next season:

    Amar'e: ~17.5 million it goes up each year)
    Felton: 8 million
    Mozgov: 3 mil
    Turiaf: 4.3 mil Player Option
    Randolph: 2.9 mil
    Walker: 0.9 mil

    Total: 44.9 million dollars

    That leaves us with 36.6 million dollars. Now, we have to add on Chris Paul's 16.3 million dollar 2011-12 salary.

    Leaves the Knicks with a payroll of 52.9 million dollars. In other words, not enough for a max contract. If we traded Felton, then we could get closer, but not quite closer enough unless we dumped Mozgov or Randolph (likely).

    So in other words, I do suppose it's possible, but highly unlikely. Especially since I don't think the Hornets are giving CP3 to us unless we take on AT LEAST one of their bad contracts (they want to give us Okafor, but at minimum we'll have to take Posey at the very least).
    All of the above is why you can't give up both Gallo and AR if we were to trade for CP3 now. I really want Gallo to stay. I think he will be enough of a third option to go into battle with. We would be able to hold our own w anybody if he grows into a guy that can carry us at times and/or become an effective closer. He showed signs of this last season.

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    I don't want to give up EITHER Randolph or Gallo...but if we can give up ONE of them at get CP3, then I'll bite the bullet for it (so long as we don't have to pick up okafor).

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    All of the above is why you can't give up both Gallo and AR if we were to trade for CP3 now. I really want Gallo to stay. I think he will be enough of a third option to go into battle with. We would be able to hold our own w anybody if he grows into a guy that can carry us at times and/or become an effective closer. He showed signs of this last season.
    KK i understand your POV, but then I ask what do I have to look forward to in the next 2, 3 seasons with the Knicks? I really dont see Melo being able to turn down all that money and I'm assuming he is resigning.

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    I was saying that early on too, about not taking Oke. But now I don't care about it so much. Oke's a good player and he'll help us. He's a nice piece, even at that dollar amount.

    I think people don't really have a grasp on how special Paul is.. Not you SSj, others on this board. He would change the entire mindset of this team, take us to that next level w Amare. If we kept Gallo, we would be good enough to win it all.

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    Originally Posted by Dario8676
    KK i understand your POV, but then I ask what do I have to look forward to in the next 2, 3 seasons with the Knicks? I really dont see Melo being able to turn down all that money and I'm assuming he is resigning.
    He would change the entire mindset of this team, take us to that next level w Amare. If we kept Gallo, we would be good enough to win it all.

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    I was saying that early on too, about not taking Oke. But now I don't care about it so much. Oke's a good player and he'll help us. He's a nice piece, even at that dollar amount.

    I think people don't really have a grasp on how special Paul is.. Not you SSj, others on this board. He would change the entire mindset of this team, take us to that next level w Amare. If we kept Gallo, we would be good enough to win it all.
    I agree 100 percent.. I truly believe that when healthy Paul is the best pg in the league and the combo with him and Amar'e would be so deadly... better than nash Amar'e once they form that chemistry. Everyone thinks oh but then we don't have enough money for another max contract next year... kk so maybe we don't. A team of Oke, Amar'e, Paul, and Galo/Chandler if we can keep one of them I think is good enough to win it all... Sometimes you have to take risks and I can understand Knicks fans being cautious about it based on what has happened in recent history with the cap issues, but I truly believe CP3 would not be a bust and best of all he is still very young.

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