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Thread: Can we run SSOL with Felton?

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    Default Can we run SSOL with Felton?

    I am not sure if Felton can run the SSOL. I am not saying he can't or he will be a failure, I just do not know.

    The good things about him that work with SSOL:

    - He pushes the ball up the floor
    - Great court vision and handle
    - Can run PNR
    - Sets up his teammates

    Cons about him that do not work in SSOL:

    - Not a consistent finisher at the rim
    - Spotty jumper and 3; however, under Larry Brown he has made big strides. If this stays consistent then this is a posistive.

    Those two negatives need to be fixed. He needs to be a scoring threat that forces the team to concentrate and focus on him just as much they will on Amare. Duhon failed because he was never a scoring threat (among the millions of other things). If the opposing team does not care about him then he cannot draw opponents to him and create shots for teammates.

    The unknown:

    Probably the other make or break with SSOL. Felton's IQ needs better then anyone else especially the opposing team. The point guard in the SSOL is just that, your point man. In a police raid, or in military urban combat your point man leads in and probes and exposes the enemy. Felton needs to probe the other teams defense. He needs to find the weakness and exploit it. This is how he can create an offense for our team. This also goes in conjunction with him being a scoring threat. If he isn't a threat he cannot probe. Its like your point man going into combat unarmed.

    Your thoughts?

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    Originally Posted by jeckomaru
    I am not sure if Felton can run the SSOL. I am not saying he can't or he will be a failure, I just do not know.

    The good things about him that work with SSOL:

    - He pushes the ball up the floor
    - Great court vision and handle
    - Can run PNR
    - Sets up his teammates

    Cons about him that do not work in SSOL:

    - Not a consistent finisher at the rim
    - Spotty jumper and 3; however, under Larry Brown he has made big strides. If this stays consistent then this is a posistive.


    Those two negatives need to be fixed. He needs to be a scoring threat that forces the team to concentrate and focus on him just as much they will on Amare. Duhon failed because he was never a scoring threat (among the millions of other things). If the opposing team does not care about him then he cannot draw opponents to him and create shots for teammates.

    The unknown:

    Probably the other make or break with SSOL. Felton's IQ needs better then anyone else especially the opposing team. The point guard in the SSOL is just that, your point man. In a police raid, or in military urban combat your point man leads in and probes and exposes the enemy. Felton needs to probe the other teams defense. He needs to find the weakness and exploit it. This is how he can create an offense for our team. This also goes in conjunction with him being a scoring threat. If he isn't a threat he cannot probe. Its like your point man going into combat unarmed.

    Your thoughts?
    How do the cons effect the ssol system as a pg?
    felton is a scoring threat. u probably need to watch some games instead of youtube highlights. dude is deceptively quick. if you beat your man, the defense collapses, then you kick out to the shooters.
    we made duhon into darren collison for half a season.
    you state a lot of obvious stuff here guy.
    and in an offense based post, what does defense have to do with running the ssol? of ur on offense....

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    Veteran mafra's Avatar
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    The first thing I think of when I consider if someone is capable of running D'ant's SSOL is STAMINA. Not only does the PG need to be lightning quick, F-A-S-T as fast can be, but he also must be a tireless energizer bunny!

    The PG needs to be quick, he needs to be in constant motion, durable and he needs to be super athletic.

    CHECK: I think we can say Felton qualifies here. Steve Nash averaged about 35 minutes a game while playing with D'ant. As it happens, Felton (in his short career) averages 35 minutes a game.

    Felton is not as tall as Nash, but he's certainly bigger and stronger. Much more compact. He's probably faster too (end-to-end), although he might not be as fluid (or as quick off the cut - or with his first step).

    --------

    The next attribute that immediately jumps out at you is SHOOTING PCT. NOt just the 3-pointer (which is definitely necessary) but his mid-range game altogether.

    In the first EIGHT seasons of Steve Nash's career, in DAL, he basically shot about 47% from the field & 42% from 3PT.

    In his 9th year, when he finally got to play in the SSOL system of D'ant, his FG pct shot up to 50% and his 3PT efficiency improved to 43, then 45, then 47 percent (and has since dropped to 43, then 42, since MD left PHO).

    Now let's take a look at Mr. Raymond Felton. He has FIVE years under his belt. His FG pct goes like this: 39, 38, 41, 40, 45. HIs 3PT%: 35, 33, 28, 28, 38.

    If we compare the two PGs, and check out where they were after their fifth season in the NBA. Nash finished his 5th season (48.7 FG% & 40.6 3PT%) while Felton ended his 5th season (45.9 FG% & 38.5 3PT%)

    What does all this mean?

    At first guess, we all agree that Felton falls way short in the outside shooting department, when compared to the Steve Nash of 2004-present. But upon further inspection, it appears that Raymond Felton, right now, sort of mirrors where Nash was after his 5th season. Nash was slightly better, for sure, but the gap is not as wide as one might expect, right?

    ALSO, Felton's FG% has steadily improved each year in the Association (from 39 to 45 perent), and last year we saw his 3PT% shoot up TEN percent (from 28 to 38).

    All we have to do is look at David Lee. LIKE NASH, both players saw their shooting pct improve under D'ant and his SSOL system. WHY? The obvious says b/c this is a point of emphasis in practice. Felton is a hard worker. He'll continue to improve his shooting.

    However, along with practice, maybe some of the spike in FG efficiency is b/c of the system, and the spacing-freedom it provides. Maybe with a little better shot selection we can honestly expect to see Felton approach the 50% barrier under D'ant. Maybe not in year-1.... but certainly soon! The same should apply to the 3PT shooting. Felton may not reach the 47 range, but he could get his game into the low 40s. Sure.

    CHECK: Felton has improved his midrange game and will continue to do so. He wont be 2007 Steve Nash but he could be the 2002 version. In his best year under MD, Nash averaged 18.9 ppg. I bet this season Felton comes close to that number. Felton may never be the clutch shooter that Nash is. I wont even insult Nash by claiming this is something Felton possesses. But, we wont know until we see it (or not). BUT, Nash was in his 9th season when he arrived in the SSOL system. Felton has a 2-year head start.

    ----------

    The third and final thing I believe is necessary for a PG to orchestrate the SSOL symphony is VISION / DECISION-MAKING.

    Steve Nash averaged 2.1, 3.5, 5.5 & 4.9 assists per game (his first 4 seasons). In his fifth campaign, that figure rose to 7.3. It hovered in the 7-8 range UNTIL Nash arrived in PHO. Then, we see that number jump almost THREE assists per game (where he would average 10-11 a game).

    Raymond Felton averaged 5.6, 7, 7.4, 6.7, 5.6 assists per game in his career so far (5 seasons).

    CHECK: Again, I won't disrespect Nash, and think Felton is on the level with Steve in terms of decision-making and passing, but I haven't watched Felton enough in CHA to gauge that. I do recall when he played at UNC, and I know that Larry Brown is legendary when it comes to imprinting pass-1st mentality into his PG. I also know Felton is a beast and super quick. He looked like Nash in the open floor when he played against us, that's for sure! Lol.

    So why can't I expect a jump of.... OH, say... 2 assists per game under MD? The system, and spacing, and freedom, certainly allows for it. I know alot depends on the shooters he's passing the ball to. I don't expect him to work the half court like Nash. NOt even close. But I think in the open floor he'll be special. I think the talent is there, but it depends on decision-making. No way to predict. Wait and see.

    BUT, I do think Felton will average 9 assists a game. Even Chris Duhon jumped his career assist average by 3 under D'ant (from 4 to 7). I notice a trend her for SSOL MD PGs.

    -------------

    IN CONCLUSION, I think Felton has the athletic ability, the durability, the quickness, the midrange game, the 3PT shooting potential, the passing and the decision-making.... all the attributes we need in a PG to run the SSOL system. I think Felton has the experience (5 years) and I think he's matured, in his prime, and I expect that his best basketball lies ahead of him.

    I think we should expect something closer to Steve Nash than we should fear a Chris Duhon redux.

    MY GUESS: 17.3 ppg, 9.2 assists, 4.4 rebounds. 1.9 steals, 2.3 turnovers. I think his stat line at the end of the year will resemble something like this.

    FG% of 48.9 and 3PT% of 40.1
    Last edited by mafra; Jul 29, 2010 at 08:58.

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    Originally Posted by Toons
    How do the cons effect the ssol system as a pg?
    felton is a scoring threat. u probably need to watch some games instead of youtube highlights. dude is deceptively quick. if you beat your man, the defense collapses, then you kick out to the shooters.
    we made duhon into darren collison for half a season.
    you state a lot of obvious stuff here guy.
    and in an offense based post, what does defense have to do with running the ssol? of ur on offense....
    Toons I might be mis-reading your post, but I'll do my best here.

    Felton is a scoring threat, but not the same kind needed for SSOL. I do watch entire games. I've spent the past few weeks watching past games of all the new guys we received. There are plenty of times when Felton drives to the basket, beats his man, only to miss a lay-up. He is not a good finisher at the rim. SSOL is more then driving and dishing. Like I point out a lot of it is probing. The PG drives in, the stops, dribbles around to another space, tries to probe again, passes the ball, it ends up back in his hands, tries another probe, and so on until the defense breaks down. Watch Nash and you will see he clearly does this.

    Duhon stopped being successful when teams started to realize he was not an offensive threat and left him alone. Another reason Duhon failed, he would drive to the basket and panic. Instead of moving to an open space and trying another probe he would panic and jump up like he will shoot and throw a bad pass, take a bad shot, stop probing and pass the ball away and not call for it back.

    The only time I mention defense in this post is about the other teams defense.

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    Originally Posted by jeckomaru
    Toons I might be mis-reading your post, but I'll do my best here.

    Felton is a scoring threat, but not the same kind needed for SSOL. I do watch entire games. I've spent the past few weeks watching past games of all the new guys we received. There are plenty of times when Felton drives to the basket, beats his man, only to miss a lay-up. He is not a good finisher at the rim. SSOL is more then driving and dishing. Like I point out a lot of it is probing. The PG drives in, the stops, dribbles around to another space, tries to probe again, passes the ball, it ends up back in his hands, tries another probe, and so on until the defense breaks down. Watch Nash and you will see he clearly does this.

    Duhon stopped being successful when teams started to realize he was not an offensive threat and left him alone. Another reason Duhon failed, he would drive to the basket and panic. Instead of moving to an open space and trying another probe he would panic and jump up like he will shoot and throw a bad pass, take a bad shot, stop probing and pass the ball away and not call for it back.

    The only time I mention defense in this post is about the other teams defense.
    i may just be playing devils advocate, but i honestly dont see how him not finishing is a major concern for ssol. i still dont even think its a fair comment to say he cant finish. duhon cant finish. duhon cant finish an uncontested layup. lmao @ teams ever thinkin duhon was a scoring threat.....its chris duhon...

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    i just think that felton would excel in this system because of how he played in college. i honetly feel larry brown stunted his growth and creativity

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    I think as a floor general he hast the attributes to exploit the SSOL and his shooting will improve as a result.

    His quickness, passing and floor vision will make him one of the top PGs in this league running this offense and his salary will seem like a steal.

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    It's difficult to comment really. The only games I've seen of his have been the games he's played against NY the last 3 years or so. He destroyed our matador defence, obviously.

    He has the blend of strength, quickness, agility to be successful in a demanding role. It's success or mediocrity as far as I see it.

    Poor dude's gonna be constantly compared to Nash.

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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    It's difficult to comment really. The only games I've seen of his have been the games he's played against NY the last 3 years or so. He destroyed our matador defence, obviously.
    yes, I seem to remember the same thing. lol

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    Originally Posted by Crazy8s
    It's difficult to comment really. The only games I've seen of his have been the games he's played against NY the last 3 years or so. He destroyed our matador defence, obviously.

    He has the blend of strength, quickness, agility to be successful in a demanding role. It's success or mediocrity as far as I see it.

    Poor dude's gonna be constantly compared to Nash.
    Alright HONESTY!!!
    Big Respect!

    The "SSOL system" is a fastbreaking "TEAM" that gets back on offense before
    their oponents can set up on defense. Something the Knicks have not done since Sprewell's energy.

    The SSOL is about Felton improving his teammates scoring by getting them to run and push the ball up court with him through passes.
    Those who watch alot of Bobcat B.Ball for the past 5 seasons would be the peeps to ask if Felton have that talent.

    Mafra made a great point:
    The first thing I think of when I consider if someone is capable of running D'ant's SSOL is STAMINA. Not only does the PG need to be lightning quick, F-A-S-T as fast can be, but he also must be a tireless energizer bunny!

    The PG needs to be quick, he needs to be in constant motion, durable and he needs to be super athletic.
    The only thing he left out was the superb passing skills

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    Felton strongest area is the run and gun system. It's just that Larry Brown likes to slow things down. There are not too many guards in the league that have the foot speed and handle like Raymond Felton.

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    Originally Posted by jeckomaru
    I am not sure if Felton can run the SSOL. I am not saying he can't or he will be a failure, I just do not know.

    The good things about him that work with SSOL:

    - He pushes the ball up the floor
    - Great court vision and handle
    - Can run PNR
    - Sets up his teammates

    Cons about him that do not work in SSOL:

    - Not a consistent finisher at the rim
    - Spotty jumper and 3; however, under Larry Brown he has made big strides. If this stays consistent then this is a posistive.

    Those two negatives need to be fixed. He needs to be a scoring threat that forces the team to concentrate and focus on him just as much they will on Amare. Duhon failed because he was never a scoring threat (among the millions of other things). If the opposing team does not care about him then he cannot draw opponents to him and create shots for teammates.

    The unknown:

    Probably the other make or break with SSOL. Felton's IQ needs better then anyone else especially the opposing team. The point guard in the SSOL is just that, your point man. In a police raid, or in military urban combat your point man leads in and probes and exposes the enemy. Felton needs to probe the other teams defense. He needs to find the weakness and exploit it. This is how he can create an offense for our team. This also goes in conjunction with him being a scoring threat. If he isn't a threat he cannot probe. Its like your point man going into combat unarmed.

    Your thoughts?
    I heard he was a good finisher and I saw some tape on him that shows me he has the ability to cut through defenders and make tough shots....he is a HUGE upgrade over Chris Duhon and Toney Douglas is not a pure 1(PG) so this is a very good move.

    You forgot to mention that Felton is extremely fast, so his speed would make everyone else run faster just to keep up.

    This is the styleof play that made him a 5th overall pick from North Carolina, if he doesnt do good with the Knicks then he will always be an average PG that never lived up to his potential, but this is now his chance.

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    Felton is a beast...I think his biggest attribute is that he's FAST. He's QUICK and ATHLETIC, two traits that you must have to be able to play in D'Antoni's system. He's a good passer and has a good vision of the court as well...I think he can really be successful. If D'Antoni can get Chris Duhon to the tune of 8 APG, imagine what would happen to Felton?

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    Felton is a beast...I think his biggest attribute is that he's FAST. He's QUICK and ATHLETIC, two traits that you must have to be able to play in D'Antoni's system. He's a good passer and has a good vision of the court as well...I think he can really be successful. If D'Antoni can get Chris Duhon to the tune of 8 APG, imagine what would happen to Felton?
    dont expect 11 assists per game, if you make Felton a small step under Nash you might be heart broken....right now expect average numbers of 14 ppg with 7 assists, solid PG numbers....if he does better then we can rejoice...dont jump too fast on Felton just yet.

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    Well yeah, because that was a small sample size and Duhon's assist numbers were inflated because the dude was basically a black hole when it came to scoring.

    That being said Felton is going to tear it up. He can shoot an OPEN 3, he's got out of this world quickness and athleticism, and he's pretty strong as well...it's up to him as to whether he decides to make the best use of it.

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