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Thread: Carmelo Anthony is not an elite player

  1. #31
    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Iggy has been the perimeter defender in the NBA in the last couple of years. He's the Derrell Revis of the NBA. Add that to his all around game and you have a better player.

    Iggy is actually quite underrated. I love his game. Doesn't need to score to make an impact. He's a mini LeBron.


    Wow...

  2. #32
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    He is not better than Iggy.
    He's not better than Iggy? If i said you could have a player, who averages-24.7ppg-6.3rpg and 3.1 apg, while shooting 80%ft and 45.6 from the field.Or a player who averages-15.4ppg-5.8rpg and 4.8 apg, while shooting 73%ft and 46.1 from the field.Who would you draft, be honest.

  3. #33
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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    Paul, Durant, Gasol, Nash, Williams, Dirk are all better than Carmelo.

    Carmelo is Glenn Robinson in a high paced offense, I'm telling you guys.
    fire the coach and change the system

  4. #34
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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    He's not better than Iggy? If i said you could have a player, who averages-24.7ppg-6.3rpg and 3.1 apg, while shooting 80%ft and 45.6 from the field.Or a player who averages-15.4ppg-5.8rpg and 4.8 apg, while shooting 73%ft and 46.1 from the field.Who would you draft, be honest.
    Problem is once you account for defense, Iggy turns out to be quite OK.

    If Melo played harder defense then this wouldn't be an issue

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    Originally Posted by fender0577
    He's not better than Iggy? If i said you could have a player, who averages-24.7ppg-6.3rpg and 3.1 apg, while shooting 80%ft and 45.6 from the field.Or a player who averages-15.4ppg-5.8rpg and 4.8 apg, while shooting 73%ft and 46.1 from the field.Who would you draft, be honest.
    If it were offense only. Melo's been sleep walking on defense unless he's playing Lebron. Igoudala is regarding as on of the best defensive players in the league. I think Melo could be a great defender but he seems borderline disinterested in playing D unless he's guarding Lebron.

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    Originally Posted by munco
    If it were offense only. Melo's been sleep walking on defense unless he's playing Lebron. Igoudala is regarding as on of the best defensive players in the league. I think Melo could be a great defender but he seems borderline disinterested in playing D unless he's guarding Lebron.
    He plays with no heart. When his shoots are not falling like this year, he is useless because he doesn't do anything else to help the team. He is so far from elite, it's not even worth a mention.

  7. #37
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    fire the coach and change the system
    The coach was hired to bring his then highly valued system here.

    Fire the people who hired the coach and/or the people who traded for a max. player who doesn't fit into the system of a coach who was specifically hired to bring his system to New York.

    I hate to dwell on it guys, I really do but as long as Dolan and several short term GMs are planning our present AND future we're forever stuck in a dead end.

    Melo, Amare etc. they're all good players, but they only work well in specific constellations:

    - Amar'e needs a great pick and roll PG with experience, he needs to play center to outmaneuver people and he needs SSOL to be a beast on offense.

    - Melo needs the ball about 90% of the time, a lot of iso plays and a lot of dirty work guys who play defense for him, make all the hustle plays and sacrifice themselves for him, so he can be that deadly scorer that he once was and probably still is in the right system for him.

    Melo's system Amare's system.

    That's why they both look worse together than they look apart. Both good players on their own, just not made to play together.

    Might be different if we had drafted them both and developed to play side by side....who knows, we never really had our draft picks around 2002-2004.

    And D'Antoni: Good coach, but he needs a franchise PG like Nash, Williams, Paul, maybe Kidd AND a lot of great shooters. He never had that in New York, add the fact that Melo doesn't fit into his system and he looks pretty bad coaching wise.

    Our front office has to be the worst in the NBA over the last 12 years or so, I mean all those stupid trades under Scott Layden like Camby and Nene for an injury prone Dice (who played 5 games or so in 2 years for us).

    Spree for Keith Van Horn etc.

    Then Isiah took over and pissed away our next 5-6 years, all well documented.

    Finally we hired a good GM in Donnie Walsh, but they didn't give him any time (2 years are a damn joke to rebuild a franchise). He did a pretty good job, but wasn't allowed to finish his project and the work he did in 2 years was thrown out of the window in one night.

    And this is where we are now. Grunwald has done a decent job this season, kudos to him, but all he can do is try to make minor tweaks and fix some things here and there. He can't correct our 'trinity of death' Melo-Amar'e-D'Antoni. Those 3 aren't made for each other.

    One has to go, that much is obvious, if it's D'ANtoni we as fans should ask the question why he was hired in the first place. I mean I never was a fan of his philosophy in Phoenix and I still don't think it'S right for the Eastern Conference and New York in particular now, but why on earth did we hire him in the first place?

    Everybody knew what D'ANtoni was all about!? Why did we hire him and then didn't give him the right players for his system?
    Imo we can't blame D'Antoni, you can't buy a Playstation and then expect to play XBox games on it, but that's pretty much what we the fanbase and our beloved owner do and did over the last couple of seasons.

    If we wanted players like Melo etc. why did we sign D'Antoni?
    And why did we sign him anyway to a team that plays in a city where defense and hustle are valued most and more than 120 points a night.

    I actually have to give him (D'Antoni) some credit, he tried to adjust his system and abandoned SSOL after the Melo trade, unfortunately he'S a one trick pony and the only trick he knows well is SSOL and how to win with it, BUT that was known in 2008 for christ's sake?!

    So again: Why did we sign him? And why didn't we trade for Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chris Paul etc. and sign Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion or keep Gallo like he wanted?

    It's stupid to sign a coach and then not provide him with his kind of players.

    On the other hand: If he was only signed as a fill-in to play some entertaining ball in 2008 and 2009 until Lebron etc. arrive, why on earth did we keep him beyond 2010?

    Atrocious job by the Knicks, the whole rebuilding plan is just a bad joke, we don't have a philosophy at all.

    Donnie had one, I'm sure but he was sent away before he could finish the job.

    It's unfair to blame one guy, it's not D'Antoni's fault or Melo's fault or Amare's fault.

    They're all good assets in the right constellations, but throwing them all together to hope it's gonna work is amateurish behavior, as if some of us on here did it and not renowned managers and businessmen.
    You'd expect better from a professional sports franchise.

    James Dolan is the type of guy who buys a good car let's say a Jaguar, but he's not satisfied with it, because he wants a Maybach or RR Phantom, so he trades his Jaguar, but all he ends up with in the end is a Honda Civic with custom paint and $20k rims.

    Looking good on the outside, but just a Civic on the inside, with rims who don't help the cars acceleration and speed....
    Last edited by Sprewell-Houston; Mar 08, 2012 at 08:43.

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    Originally Posted by SSj4Wingzero
    Problem is once you account for defense, Iggy turns out to be quite OK.

    If Melo played harder defense then this wouldn't be an issue


    Originally Posted by munco
    If it were offense only. Melo's been sleep walking on defense unless he's playing Lebron. Igoudala is regarding as on of the best defensive players in the league. I think Melo could be a great defender but he seems borderline disinterested in playing D unless he's guarding Lebron.
    But let me ask you guys a question, do you consider NASH, DIRK, D williams, K durant, Elite?Because none of those guys are good defenders either, you can watch the tape or check the stats, all of the have comparable stats, to melo on the defensive end(some worst).Next were going to sitting in here, saying Bruce Bowen is better than melo.People, there are very few players, who are actually great on both ends of the floor, it's very rare.Name the top 10 players n the NBA, how many of them are actually,"elite" on both ends?Honestly, i think we should hold off on melo, for a while at least, until he gets a new coach, who'll utilize him correctly.

  9. #39
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    Originally Posted by Wargames
    fire the coach and change the system

    Once we FIRE Dantoni.....we will have a winning postseason roster from the leadership of Tyson/Stat/Melo.....
    the talent level we have on this Knicks roster will be outstanding once we have a halfcourt system with design plays for several players to score, and a help-defensive system where we dont have Pierce & Dirk shooting over our smaller players, or Stat defending Parker on the peremeter. We need a coach that knows what tandem or trio of players play best together on offense or defense.

    In the Knicks last 3 games we watch coach Doc Rivers system, coach Rick Carlisle system, and the NBA best unified offense/defense system from Spurs strategic coach Pop.

  10. #40
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    Where's the logic in keeping a weak coach (who had very little success in the NBA) over proven talent in the NBA? This team will do way better under new leadership.

  11. #41
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    Default Meolo for Gallinari???

    Gallinari is not half the player Melo can be -- at least on offense. Probably no one here would endorse a straight up trade even if possible under Denver's current cap position. But putting aside cost, cap positions and the possibility of a subsequent flip of Melo by Denver, I would be willing to bet that Denver would not take the trade.

    There is no doubting Melo's capacity, but the article in the opening post of this tread was both dead on and prescient. Melo, though extraordinarily talented, is too much a prima donna on offense who demands the full stage. On defense he is too often no better than an observer in the audience. He simply does not improve a team that has other decent working parts.

    Call me a hater or whatever you wish, but I fantasize a trade of Melo to one of the LA teams. I say LA because I do not think Melo would mind that and Dolan would never want to see him in Brooklyn. At the same time any trade is likely a fantasy. The Clippers have CP3, but Sterling still owns the team and would not enjoy paying Melo his contract price. The Lakers -- well could Kobe and Melo possibly thrive together? Moreover, I doubt Dolan has the guts to do it

    I am not too happy with Amare' either. His defense has not improved at all. NBA League Pass had the Spurs' feed. Sean Elliott commented negatively on Amare's defense in last night's game several times. At one point he said that on defense Amare' might as well be a mannequin. How can a player who is so athletic be so abysmal on defense?

  12. #42
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    Default Carmelo isnt used to this system yet.

    - Carmelo Anthony’s postgame behavior was as puzzling as his recent oncourt play.

    The Knicks forward scored 6 points in a 2-of-12 disaster and sat and watched the second unit nearly steal a win over the defending champion Mavericks. As a capper, Anthony bolted the locker room early, heading for the bus, saying to a reporter, “Not tonight.’

    Fifteen minutes later, Anthony returned to the locker-room area to speak to a small group of writers and admitted adjusting to the new alignment has him confused on the court.

    The Knicks fell to the Mavericks, 95-85, last night to go 2-4 since Anthony returned to a new structure created by Jeremy Lin, whose emergence stoked a 7-0 spurt with Anthony missing most of those games with a groin injury.

    “I think any time you go from the early part of the season and having the ball and distributing and now waiting for it to come to me, it’s quite an adjustment for myself,’’ said Anthony, a minus-18 and 0-for-3 from 3-point range.




    [Only registered and activated users can see links. ]
    Carmelo just isn't used to this system yet. You probably don't wanna hear this but when we have a REAL offseason it will give him a chance to get acustom. If not then obviously we, ust trade him.

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    Why trade him B4 getting rid of the coach? we flipped this team too many times for his cluless ass...

    Get us a coach that will slow the game down so our players can actually see and think about whats actually happening on the floor, a coach that will teach and show how defense is more important than offense, A coach that will design some actual plays for his players.

    The coach is always responsible for the results of his team. D'Ant has no control, no heart/fire, no game plan, no respect from his players. Can his ass and we all will see how good this team really is.

    I dispise coaches that need players to make them look good. I mean, wtf is he there for?

  14. #44
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    Originally Posted by Sprewell-Houston
    The coach was hired to bring his then highly valued system here.

    Fire the people who hired the coach and/or the people who traded for a max. player who doesn't fit into the system of a coach who was specifically hired to bring his system to New York.

    I hate to dwell on it guys, I really do but as long as Dolan and several short term GMs are planning our present AND future we're forever stuck in a dead end.

    Melo, Amare etc. they're all good players, but they only work well in specific constellations:

    - Amar'e needs a great pick and roll PG with experience, he needs to play center to outmaneuver people and he needs SSOL to be a beast on offense.

    - Melo needs the ball about 90% of the time, a lot of iso plays and a lot of dirty work guys who play defense for him, make all the hustle plays and sacrifice themselves for him, so he can be that deadly scorer that he once was and probably still is in the right system for him.

    Melo's system Amare's system.

    That's why they both look worse together than they look apart. Both good players on their own, just not made to play together.

    Might be different if we had drafted them both and developed to play side by side....who knows, we never really had our draft picks around 2002-2004.

    And D'Antoni: Good coach, but he needs a franchise PG like Nash, Williams, Paul, maybe Kidd AND a lot of great shooters. He never had that in New York, add the fact that Melo doesn't fit into his system and he looks pretty bad coaching wise.

    Our front office has to be the worst in the NBA over the last 12 years or so, I mean all those stupid trades under Scott Layden like Camby and Nene for an injury prone Dice (who played 5 games or so in 2 years for us).

    Spree for Keith Van Horn etc.

    Then Isiah took over and pissed away our next 5-6 years, all well documented.

    Finally we hired a good GM in Donnie Walsh, but they didn't give him any time (2 years are a damn joke to rebuild a franchise). He did a pretty good job, but wasn't allowed to finish his project and the work he did in 2 years was thrown out of the window in one night.

    And this is where we are now. Grunwald has done a decent job this season, kudos to him, but all he can do is try to make minor tweaks and fix some things here and there. He can't correct our 'trinity of death' Melo-Amar'e-D'Antoni. Those 3 aren't made for each other.

    One has to go, that much is obvious, if it's D'ANtoni we as fans should ask the question why he was hired in the first place. I mean I never was a fan of his philosophy in Phoenix and I still don't think it'S right for the Eastern Conference and New York in particular now, but why on earth did we hire him in the first place?

    Everybody knew what D'ANtoni was all about!? Why did we hire him and then didn't give him the right players for his system?
    Imo we can't blame D'Antoni, you can't buy a Playstation and then expect to play XBox games on it, but that's pretty much what we the fanbase and our beloved owner do and did over the last couple of seasons.

    If we wanted players like Melo etc. why did we sign D'Antoni?
    And why did we sign him anyway to a team that plays in a city where defense and hustle are valued most and more than 120 points a night.

    I actually have to give him (D'Antoni) some credit, he tried to adjust his system and abandoned SSOL after the Melo trade, unfortunately he'S a one trick pony and the only trick he knows well is SSOL and how to win with it, BUT that was known in 2008 for christ's sake?!

    So again: Why did we sign him? And why didn't we trade for Steve Nash, Jason Kidd, Chris Paul etc. and sign Joe Johnson, Shawn Marion or keep Gallo like he wanted?

    It's stupid to sign a coach and then not provide him with his kind of players.

    On the other hand: If he was only signed as a fill-in to play some entertaining ball in 2008 and 2009 until Lebron etc. arrive, why on earth did we keep him beyond 2010?

    Atrocious job by the Knicks, the whole rebuilding plan is just a bad joke, we don't have a philosophy at all.

    Donnie had one, I'm sure but he was sent away before he could finish the job.

    It's unfair to blame one guy, it's not D'Antoni's fault or Melo's fault or Amare's fault.

    They're all good assets in the right constellations, but throwing them all together to hope it's gonna work is amateurish behavior, as if some of us on here did it and not renowned managers and businessmen.
    You'd expect better from a professional sports franchise.

    James Dolan is the type of guy who buys a good car let's say a Jaguar, but he's not satisfied with it, because he wants a Maybach or RR Phantom, so he trades his Jaguar, but all he ends up with in the end is a Honda Civic with custom paint and $20k rims.

    Looking good on the outside, but just a Civic on the inside, with rims who don't help the cars acceleration and speed....
    Cut the **** man. Your ranting about Dolan and whoever else in the front office is getting really old. We're dealing with NOW and right now we have a team that isn't successful under this "system" you so highly value.

    We have the players we have and that won't change before a new coach is brought in. Can't believe you took up all that space to basically (ONCE AGAIN) GIVE Antoni a pass. What is your love affection with this guy??? Even pro Antoni posters have eventually admitted that a coaching change is most likely needed.

    Stop living in the past!

    Oh and in case you didn't know: A coach who needs "his type of players" to be successful is not a good coach. Antoni is the only coach in the league who needs a grocery list of players.

    There are plenty of coaches that have been successful on different teams where the structure was different based on personnel.

  15. #45
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    Originally Posted by DontForgetDerekHarper
    this is ridiculous, melo not an elite player he is a top 5 player in the NBA easily

    Kobe
    Lebron
    Wade
    Howard
    Melo

    end of story.
    KD, Derrick Rose, CP3, Dirk? Melo is better than these guys? really? top 10 maybe but not top 5.

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