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Thread: A Realistic Outlook on our team and our players

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    Veteran Knicksfansince92's Avatar
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    Question Mark A Realistic Outlook on our team and our players

    I have seen alot of threads praising some of our players calling for them to have big seasons or for us to become a 6th seed. While it is great to be optimistic i also think it is great to be realistic. With that said here is a real look on our players.

    Pg- Raymond Felton,Toney Douglas -here is where the problem starts our focal point of this systems is a good foundation to begin with the lack of depth and Douglas being turner of prone/ rushing shots and settling for bad shots with the shot clock winding down. Felton being undersized and not a good one on one defender for all the speed he has he can't stay in front of anyone ( see playoffs for proof Jamer Nelson destroyed him)

    Sg- Kelenna Azubuike, Roger Mason- lack of depth again.. we will start the season with one true shooting guard Roger mason meaning someone will play out of position mostly chandler resulting in the same problems from last year ( Chandlers bad handling for a Sg and poor 3pt shot)

    Sf- Danilo Gallinari Wilson Chandler Bill Walker- one of the only plus we have so far. The Sf depth on this team is a good one, we have a shooter in Gallinari a great one on one defender in Chandler and a good shooter/slasher in Bill Walker. Only problem is getting minutes for each player at the Sf position to keep them from playing out of position. This position has the brightest upside seeing all the players here are young and can improve.

    Pf-Amare Stoudemire ,Anthony Randolph - Not a great depth but easily our best positions in terms of sheer star power (Amare) and mismatches (Randolph) this is going to be a starting point of our offense running the pick and roll with Amare which should prove healthy. However Randolph still seems to be a question mark one thing that bothers is his maturity and work ethic he has all the tools but while doing research i found he has had a lot of falling out with his coach and is sometimes stubborn. However his physical tools are there is all up to the coaching staff and him to harness it.

    C- Ronny Turiaf , Timofey Mozgov, Eddy Curry - Here is where we have a problem and where people tend to over look, Turiaf is only a 20-25min player because of recent surgery and we know too little on Timofey to expect him to come in and produce. We have to hope Curry gets the nodd because with have a big hole here. Also with Turiaf on the floor it brings defensive intensity but he is a hole on offense because of his inability to shoot or post up, however he helps here because of his hustle and he gets garbage points so its a win win.

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    Member XxWinKnicksxX's Avatar
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    Good observation! I just want the team to make the playoffs and win a series and gain some confidence! Theres 2 many question marks on this team and we wont know untill the season starts. I just hope they stay healthy and play unselfish! I am expecting the team to play more as a team and play with some tuffness. This isnt the same team we are going to have in 2 seasons so I just hope the players we have now play good, get confidence and get a taste of the playoffs and a playoff series win.

    I will still be upset if they don't win a playoff series, but I think you should keep your expectations high! This team needs to play with the confidence that they belong in the playoffs and have the confidence that they can win and advance in the playoffs.

    With high flying R felton and Amare Stoudemire I expect the team to be better and win close games at the end which translates into making the playoffs. If gallo can upgrade and role players can gell in well with the stars (or star) gallo is kinda our team star behind the obvious Amare, then you got a complete team that can focus at the end of games and win them!

    Theres 2 many question marks. I don't know which way there gonna go, thats why they play the game. I wanna see how they react when There losing! I wanna see how they do when they get in foul trouble. I wanna see how they do when injuries happen and when thy get on losing streaks.

    Thats what defines a team. But Like I said I want to see them win a playoff series! Yes They might be unreasonable but Why would I expect anything less. I always want my team, no matter who they are to win. Anything past the first round would be a dream for me! That would mean that the team really plays well together and can handle adversity!

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    Yea i know that is what is confusing to me too, much potential on this team from our players to become something great but then again then they can fail and we are back another 2 years.

    However you are right if we can gel we will make a nice push for the playoffs and gain some confidence

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    I think your concerns are spot on. In the world of predicting/forecasting, it's really anybody's guess. The Knicks are a team that can win only 35 or can win 45.

    I feel that the playoffs are definitely a real possibility. There are still many weak teams, and if we can beat them and maybe upset the upper tier teams, we can move up in the seeding. That is assuming that Azubuike is healthy and Amare is healthy, and that we can mesh well fast. I expect sub-500 basketball the first month though.

    Let's see!

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    Huge Member smokes's Avatar
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    I agree with your assessment for the mostpart, IF you look at the team with those spots assigned.

    But the Knicks have players going all over the place. It's just as likely we'll have Chandler/Walker at the 2 as well as the 3 which increases the depth at that position. Amare or Randolph at the 5 again increases the chances of us having a good 5 in our system (it's unknown at this stage, we have to see how they will perform at C).

    I don't think it's really possible to make a "realistic" assessment of this team until probably 10 games into the season when we settle into a set rotation. Then we'll know who is playing where and what potential our young guns have to show a breakout season (Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Randolph, Walker, TD all have the potential to explode this year).

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    Fundamentally Sound ronoranina's Avatar
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    Coach D has already gone on record as saying he doesn't see Chandler as a 2 guard.

    Mason will start barring any trades, or signings until Azzy comes back.

    I wouldn't be surprised if Mason stays put in the starting lineup though. He defends, shoots the 3 ball and plays smart! These are all traits coach values very highly in players.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    I agree with your assessment for the mostpart, IF you look at the team with those spots assigned.

    But the Knicks have players going all over the place. It's just as likely we'll have Chandler/Walker at the 2 as well as the 3 which increases the depth at that position. Amare or Randolph at the 5 again increases the chances of us having a good 5 in our system (it's unknown at this stage, we have to see how they will perform at C).

    I don't think it's really possible to make a "realistic" assessment of this team until probably 10 games into the season when we settle into a set rotation. Then we'll know who is playing where and what potential our young guns have to show a breakout season (Felton, Gallo, Chandler, Randolph, Walker, TD all have the potential to explode this year).
    I see what you are saying and your right maybe it will take about ten games until we can really see how things will turn out. However Amare is quoted saying he won't play the 5 and with Randolph that would give us an advantage because of speed but we will lose size.
    All in we are just a few better role players from being a mild contender like the Hawks

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    Default We will be good

    Originally Posted by Knicksfansince92
    I have seen alot of threads praising some of our players calling for them to have big seasons or for us to become a 6th seed. While it is great to be optimistic i also think it is great to be realistic. With that said here is a real look on our players.

    Pg- Raymond Felton,Toney Douglas -here is where the problem starts our focal point of this systems is a good foundation to begin with the lack of depth and Douglas being turner of prone/ rushing shots and settling for bad shots with the shot clock winding down. Felton being undersized and not a good one on one defender for all the speed he has he can't stay in front of anyone ( see playoffs for proof Jamer Nelson destroyed him)

    Sg- Kelenna Azubuike, Roger Mason- lack of depth again.. we will start the season with one true shooting guard Roger mason meaning someone will play out of position mostly chandler resulting in the same problems from last year ( Chandlers bad handling for a Sg and poor 3pt shot)

    Sf- Danilo Gallinari Wilson Chandler Bill Walker- one of the only plus we have so far. The Sf depth on this team is a good one, we have a shooter in Gallinari a great one on one defender in Chandler and a good shooter/slasher in Bill Walker. Only problem is getting minutes for each player at the Sf position to keep them from playing out of position. This position has the brightest upside seeing all the players here are young and can improve.

    Pf-Amare Stoudemire ,Anthony Randolph - Not a great depth but easily our best positions in terms of sheer star power (Amare) and mismatches (Randolph) this is going to be a starting point of our offense running the pick and roll with Amare which should prove healthy. However Randolph still seems to be a question mark one thing that bothers is his maturity and work ethic he has all the tools but while doing research i found he has had a lot of falling out with his coach and is sometimes stubborn. However his physical tools are there is all up to the coaching staff and him to harness it.

    C- Ronny Turiaf , Timofey Mozgov, Eddy Curry - Here is where we have a problem and where people tend to over look, Turiaf is only a 20-25min player because of recent surgery and we know too little on Timofey to expect him to come in and produce. We have to hope Curry gets the nodd because with have a big hole here. Also with Turiaf on the floor it brings defensive intensity but he is a hole on offense because of his inability to shoot or post up, however he helps here because of his hustle and he gets garbage points so its a win win.
    very negative, I know your skeptical but remember that we won 33 games with only David Lee being consistent!

    We got 9 new guys that are perfect for this team, athletic and scorers who have defensive awarness.

    Duhon
    Chandler
    Gallo
    Harrington
    Lee


    NO BENCH-T Mac was garbage with his injuries, Walker came here too late, Rodriguez had a few good games, Eddie House had only one good game which was his first as a Knick(same with T Mac), No big man help, Bender always got hurt, Douglas was our best bench player and he only got playing time for half of the season.

    Had only defense from Chandler, no post defense since Harrington and Lee get dominated. No leader since Lee is better as second fiddle to a star player. Duhon was a slow point guard who turned us into a half court team and was horrible last season.

    Now look at our new lineup

    Felton
    Azabuke
    Gallo
    Amare
    Randolph


    I'm saying Randolph starts at the 5 cuz Mike D loves speed and Phil Weber suggested Randolph at the five on Knicks night live.....

    Felton is a HUGE upgrade over Duhon, he cans score, dish it out better, has overall better awarness on both ends of the floor and is FAST which makes us go from a half court team to a fast paced team

    Azabuke is a shooter who can play defense and would always guard the best offensive opposing player. Now we can have Azabuke and Chandler at the same time when we need defense.

    Gallo should improve with his consistency and shot selection, also on rebounds and aggressiveness. Playing along side Amare makes all the pressure point towards Amare instead of Gallo thus Gallo plays at a higher level and gets easier shots.

    Amare will dominate and cant take the pressure helping everyone around him mentally off the court and statistically on the court.

    Randolph will be great. Donnie Nelson has been labeled as one of the most hard nosed coaches in the NBA, if you think Randolph is stubborn maybe its cuz he learned it from Don Nelson. Randolph is a talent that should have started from day one, instead he was in the dog house and got sixth man minutes. and still put up great numbers. With freedom on and off the court Randolph will explode but will show some black holes that will need to be filled by the coaching staff (post defense and consistency)

    Our bench is a thousand times better.


    Mason Jr.
    Chandler
    Douglas
    Turiaf
    Mozgov
    Walker
    Fields

    We should win atleast ten to fifteen games more this year than last year.

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    Originally Posted by Paul1355
    very negative, I know your skeptical but remember that we won 33 games with only David Lee being consistent!

    We got 9 new guys that are perfect for this team, athletic and scorers who have defensive awarness.

    Duhon
    Chandler
    Gallo
    Harrington
    Lee


    NO BENCH-T Mac was garbage with his injuries, Walker came here too late, Rodriguez had a few good games, Eddie House had only one good game which was his first as a Knick(same with T Mac), No big man help, Bender always got hurt, Douglas was our best bench player and he only got playing time for half of the season.

    Had only defense from Chandler, no post defense since Harrington and Lee get dominated. No leader since Lee is better as second fiddle to a star player. Duhon was a slow point guard who turned us into a half court team and was horrible last season.

    Now look at our new lineup

    Felton
    Azabuke
    Gallo
    Amare
    Randolph


    I'm saying Randolph starts at the 5 cuz Mike D loves speed and Phil Weber suggested Randolph at the five on Knicks night live.....

    Felton is a HUGE upgrade over Duhon, he cans score, dish it out better, has overall better awarness on both ends of the floor and is FAST which makes us go from a half court team to a fast paced team

    Azabuke is a shooter who can play defense and would always guard the best offensive opposing player. Now we can have Azabuke and Chandler at the same time when we need defense.

    Gallo should improve with his consistency and shot selection, also on rebounds and aggressiveness. Playing along side Amare makes all the pressure point towards Amare instead of Gallo thus Gallo plays at a higher level and gets easier shots.

    Amare will dominate and cant take the pressure helping everyone around him mentally off the court and statistically on the court.

    Randolph will be great. Donnie Nelson has been labeled as one of the most hard nosed coaches in the NBA, if you think Randolph is stubborn maybe its cuz he learned it from Don Nelson. Randolph is a talent that should have started from day one, instead he was in the dog house and got sixth man minutes. and still put up great numbers. With freedom on and off the court Randolph will explode but will show some black holes that will need to be filled by the coaching staff (post defense and consistency)

    Our bench is a thousand times better.


    Mason Jr.
    Chandler
    Douglas
    Turiaf
    Mozgov
    Walker
    Fields

    We should win atleast ten to fifteen games more this year than last year.

    I see what point you are trying to make and i agree to some degree. First i do believe we are a better team than last year. That being said we are not that much better because the whole East improved nearly every team in the Eastern Conference went out and got better even the bottom feeding NJ Nets. Which will make things harder for us. I believe if we had this team last year we would make a strong playoff push but not this year with all the better teams out there.

    Also we only won 29 not 33 games last year so a ten game improvement would only put us at a 39-43 record which is either a 8th or 9th seed

    Finally I would like to point that our bench shifted significantly during the season but the only consist bench squad we had that i can point out is the one before the all star break which consisted of :
    Al Harrington,
    Eddy Curry,
    Jared Jeffries,
    Nate Robinson,
    Toney Douglas,
    Darko Milicic,
    Jordan Hill,
    I believe this is a stronger bench with more length, scoring and experience
    This bench wasn't showcased because our Coach uses a 7-9man rotation so some of the players you mention above will not see Playing time.

    With that being said thanks for your opinion and feedback i hadn't really thought of it that way

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    Staying optimistic is part of the off season, which is good. I agree the Knicks lack depth, but Dantoni sticks with 8 or 9 players.
    our 8 or 9 players would be
    starters
    felton
    azubuike
    gallinari
    stoudamire
    randolph

    bench
    douglas or walker
    chandler
    turiaf
    mason jr.

    Its going be interesting on who will play off the bench and who will not play. One thing is for sure the knicks need another point guard who can pass because i don't consider tony douglas a pg, more of a sg. To be a pg you need to be able to control the offense. On the upside a good amount of these player can play a lot of minutes.
    Last edited by serendipity10; Aug 13, 2010 at 00:27. Reason: unclear on the starters and bench

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    I believe this team is a much better fit into the what Mike wants in his team. We have that focal point in Amare. The PG just needs to dump it down and let the big dog eat. Not to mention we are going to have great flyers who will look for those scraps in A.R and Azzy and also Gallo to some extent. If he is doubled then look for the shooters on the wings.

    To me this team is not some miss mash we have had over the past seasons. Sure those players might have been better individually, but together we were so ****. Overall I think our starters and bench is a unit that will be more cohesive and together as we have that one star who is going to get the ball and demand it. So other players will know who to get into the game early and often and I have to say we do have others who could explode on any given night.

    Not to mention we are a million times better on the defensive end. We have length, defensive prowess, shooting ability, a bonafide down low presence on the offensive end and on the defensive end, and were so ****ing athletic it's not even funny. Couple that with the fact this team is young and can only go up... Scary. Let's also not forget that teams that made the playoffs last year just got a whole lot worse. Were looking good.

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    I like that your trying to be realistic but I think you undervalue some players on the team. I think when you bring a real pg to ny who has been a solid player thus far in the league, who has shown flashes of brilliance could be a surprise in the system. Maybe felton isint the long term answer and certainly know Cp3, I do expect felton to have a good year, close to all stars numbers but just short, maybe 17 and 8.

    Anthony randolph will provide us depth at PF and should play Center, I know he hasn't necessarily proved anything so far, but hes 21 and a very talented player, it could be a real break out season for him.

    These 2 should have a break out seasons, teamed up with a hopefully healthy amare is great. Lets think about 2 other players that are home grown. Gallo is a sharp clutch shooter with an evolving all around game. WC should be very curious to watch, as he has better guys around him than the past, he wont have to deal with being the number 1/2 option likes hes been, these guys are big and mismatch nightmares.

    Felton, WC, Gallo, Amare, Randolph is a line up I think can compete with most eastern conference teams.

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    I think the change from Duhon to Felton is already an extra 5-6 wins in itself.

    We can actually run some semblance of D'Antoni's fast-paced full-court offense now.

    We actually have guys who can play Center and block shots (Turiaf, Randolph, Timofey ideally, etc.)

    We actually have a legit point guard who isn't a second stringer

    Our SG situation has improved with Azubuike who is a great defender

    Gallo is going to get better

    And Amar'e is SO MUCH BETTER than Lee because he can take over a game in the 4th quarter whereas David Lee disappeared in the 4th

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    Don't even waste your breath. I have been rooting for the Knicks since about 92', but because I've been "negative" about this current team, all of a sudden I'm not a fan anymore. Just let these fools watch this team get manhandled all season. Then the excuses will come..... "well if so and so".... You assesment was solid from top to bottom. We traded one 20/10 all-star for the another, got a 3rd tier pg, and the end of the bench from a bad GS team end we are suppposed to be a better team in a much improved East??? No way. You mention E-city around here and you get laughed outta town, but the only true "center" on the team is some dude from Russia. Check out my reality check thread and some of my other posts. Welcome to the board. Good to have another "realist" that isn't under 20 on KO.com.

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    Veteran Knicksfansince92's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Don't even waste your breath. I have been rooting for the Knicks since about 92', but because I've been "negative" about this current team, all of a sudden I'm not a fan anymore. Just let these fools watch this team get manhandled all season. Then the excuses will come..... "well if so and so".... You assesment was solid from top to bottom. We traded one 20/10 all-star for the another, got a 3rd tier pg, and the end of the bench from a bad GS team end we are suppposed to be a better team in a much improved East??? No way. You mention E-city around here and you get laughed outta town, but the only true "center" on the team is some dude from Russia. Check out my reality check thread and some of my other posts. Welcome to the board. Good to have another "realist" that isn't under 20 on KO.com.
    I agree with you , however i think the problem is that too many people get caught up in the hype and start making irrational and delusional predictions.
    Also i don't know what the beef is with Eddy Curry because if you watched last season even in his short stretch he was able to post up and command double team attention i think we could be better off with him at C .
    Thank you for the Welcoming

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