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    Member BleedOrange&Blue's Avatar
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    Default Can We Win w/ D'Antoni

    Like many Knicks Fans I am happy that we can now look back at the Isaiah Era as we move forward and try to restore the prominence of what was once a proud and respected franchise. I think Donnie Walsh has been decent as a GM as he was able to clean house and give the Knicks young talent and some flexibility to work with in the future. Up until this point however, the Knicks have not show any real improvement. This of course is part of the rebuilding process and considering how there was no real continuity and players were all looking out for themselves with contracts expiring, to fault D'Antoni at this point would be premature.

    Up until this point, I have ignored most of the criticism of our coach as he has never really had much of a chance to put his system into place. I think the most legitimate point that has been made is his lack of emphasis on defense and rebounding. Even as a D'Antoni supporter I am truly concerned by his disregard for the two most critical components of championship winning basketball. I have no doubt that the Knicks will be entertaining but quite frankly I got plenty of that reading the newspapers when Isaiah was running things. I don't care about just "making the playoffs" I want to dominate.

    Looking back on the history of the NBA, I cannot recall a team outside of perhaps the Showtime Lakers that could get away with average defense and go deep into the playoffs. As potent as the D'Antoni Offense can be I honestly feel that this Knicks team regardless of personal will not win the Eastern Conference Finals unless D'Antoni accommodates more effective defensive players at the expense of his personal taste. So when Donnie is looking to trade Wilson for Rudy most people scratch their head, but in D'Antoni's "system" which overvalues offensive prowess and undervalues defense this is a slam dunk.

    Considering where we stand now do you feel D'Antoni will be able to coach a contender?

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    Originally Posted by BleedOrange&Blue
    Like many Knicks Fans I am happy that we can now look back at the Isaiah Era as we move forward and try to restore the prominence of what was once a proud and respected franchise. I think Donnie Walsh has been decent as a GM as he was able to clean house and give the Knicks young talent and some flexibility to work with in the future. Up until this point however, the Knicks have not show any real improvement. This of course is part of the rebuilding process and considering how there was no real continuity and players were all looking out for themselves with contracts expiring, to fault D'Antoni at this point would be premature.

    Up until this point, I have ignored most of the criticism of our coach as he has never really had much of a chance to put his system into place. I think the most legitimate point that has been made is his lack of emphasis on defense and rebounding. Even as a D'Antoni supporter I am truly concerned by his disregard for the two most critical components of championship winning basketball. I have no doubt that the Knicks will be entertaining but quite frankly I got plenty of that reading the newspapers when Isaiah was running things. I don't care about just "making the playoffs" I want to dominate.

    Looking back on the history of the NBA, I cannot recall a team outside of perhaps the Showtime Lakers that could get away with average defense and go deep into the playoffs. As potent as the D'Antoni Offense can be I honestly feel that this Knicks team regardless of personal will not win the Eastern Conference Finals unless D'Antoni accommodates more effective defensive players at the expense of his personal taste. So when Donnie is looking to trade Wilson for Rudy most people scratch their head, but in D'Antoni's "system" which overvalues offensive prowess and undervalues defense this is a slam dunk.

    Considering where we stand now do you feel D'Antoni will be able to coach a contender?
    Those Laker team played D. Not Bad Boys D but it was good.


    D'Antoni will win alot of games but the playoffs is a different beast. I will give him this year alone to prove himself. I expect to beat teams like the Bucks, Pacers, etc. We should compete with the Bulls and go hard and Miami (though they may blow us out). Not too many great coaches out there. As much as I hate him I wish Pat Riley was still here. That kind of an in a basketball organization means so much.

    But this is it for Mike, there must be a significant improvement. Playoffs or bust. Must win 42 games or more.

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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    Those Laker team played D. Not Bad Boys D but it was good.


    D'Antoni will win alot of games but the playoffs is a different beast. I will give him this year alone to prove himself. I expect to beat teams like the Bucks, Pacers, etc. We should compete with the Bulls and go hard and Miami (though they may blow us out). Not too many great coaches out there. As much as I hate him I wish Pat Riley was still here. That kind of an in a basketball organization means so much.

    But this is it for Mike, there must be a significant improvement. Playoffs or bust. Must win 42 games or more.
    We need to get rid of him immediately I rather mike Woodson and his iso-offense

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    NO!
    Your thread is a replica of January 2004, when Isiah replace the terror of Layden, and HOF coach Lenny Wilkins replace Chaney.

    Layden change 85% of the roster in two seasons
    Isiah changed 96% of the roster in two seasons.
    Walsh changed 92% of the roster in two seasons.

    All these two year changes by different GM's has taken away my optimism in this Knick organization as a team. Why? each GM average a 30 win season.
    Nothing changed in our record.

    The Knicks last 5 seasons of 30 win records belong to the Headcoaches poor developement of the players.

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    Originally Posted by Kiyaman
    NO!
    Your thread is a replica of January 2004, when Isiah replace the terror of Layden, and HOF coach Lenny Wilkins replace Chaney.

    Layden change 85% of the roster in two seasons
    Isiah changed 96% of the roster in two seasons.
    Walsh changed 92% of the roster in two seasons.

    All these two year changes by different GM's has taken away my optimism in this Knick organization as a team. Why? each GM average a 30 win season.
    Nothing changed in our record.

    The Knicks last 5 seasons of 30 win records belong to the Headcoaches poor developement of the players.
    complete lack of credit to you. any person who says Donnie Walsh is a failure just does not have their head on straight. he was the best part of this organization

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    We simply didn't know what it all would turn into before the 2010/11 season, when Kiyaman wrote the post you're quoting (08/30/2010) we all were frustrated and devastated after a hopeless season (only 29W). In my opinion if you asked Kiyaman right now what does he think of Walsh after the first winning season (42W) in years his answer would be absolutely different.

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    Originally Posted by BleedOrange&Blue
    Like many Knicks Fans I am happy that we can now look back at the Isaiah Era as we move forward and try to restore the prominence of what was once a proud and respected franchise. I think Donnie Walsh has been decent as a GM as he was able to clean house and give the Knicks young talent and some flexibility to work with in the future. Up until this point however, the Knicks have not show any real improvement. This of course is part of the rebuilding process and considering how there was no real continuity and players were all looking out for themselves with contracts expiring, to fault D'Antoni at this point would be premature.

    Up until this point, I have ignored most of the criticism of our coach as he has never really had much of a chance to put his system into place. I think the most legitimate point that has been made is his lack of emphasis on defense and rebounding. Even as a D'Antoni supporter I am truly concerned by his disregard for the two most critical components of championship winning basketball. I have no doubt that the Knicks will be entertaining but quite frankly I got plenty of that reading the newspapers when Isaiah was running things. I don't care about just "making the playoffs" I want to dominate.

    Looking back on the history of the NBA, I cannot recall a team outside of perhaps the Showtime Lakers that could get away with average defense and go deep into the playoffs. As potent as the D'Antoni Offense can be I honestly feel that this Knicks team regardless of personal will not win the Eastern Conference Finals unless D'Antoni accommodates more effective defensive players at the expense of his personal taste. So when Donnie is looking to trade Wilson for Rudy most people scratch their head, but in D'Antoni's "system" which overvalues offensive prowess and undervalues defense this is a slam dunk.

    Considering where we stand now do you feel D'Antoni will be able to coach a contender?
    We can win enough to make it deep in the playoffs but to win a ring, is yet to be seen with Mike D.

    He does not stress defense which is obvious if you watch his teams.

    He could not win a championship with Steve Nash in his prime winning two mvp awards sided with a young Amare, Boris Diaw, Leandro Barbosa...all very good players around two all stars at the time. The Suns should have won at least one ring.

    What Mike D could not do was have his high powered offense beat the Spurs' high powered defense. Defense wins and Alvin Gentry's Suns beat teh Spurs in a sweep because he focused on both ends of the floor.

    SO...I think we can win alot of games this year, but to go all the way with Mike D is yet to be seen. And if he does not get us in the playoffs this year, then he is gone and he knows it.

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    Originally Posted by BleedOrange&Blue
    Like many Knicks Fans I am happy that we can now look back at the Isaiah Era as we move forward and try to restore the prominence of what was once a proud and respected franchise. I think Donnie Walsh has been decent as a GM as he was able to clean house and give the Knicks young talent and some flexibility to work with in the future. Up until this point however, the Knicks have not show any real improvement. This of course is part of the rebuilding process and considering how there was no real continuity and players were all looking out for themselves with contracts expiring, to fault D'Antoni at this point would be premature.

    Up until this point, I have ignored most of the criticism of our coach as he has never really had much of a chance to put his system into place. I think the most legitimate point that has been made is his lack of emphasis on defense and rebounding. Even as a D'Antoni supporter I am truly concerned by his disregard for the two most critical components of championship winning basketball. I have no doubt that the Knicks will be entertaining but quite frankly I got plenty of that reading the newspapers when Isaiah was running things. I don't care about just "making the playoffs" I want to dominate.

    Looking back on the history of the NBA, I cannot recall a team outside of perhaps the Showtime Lakers that could get away with average defense and go deep into the playoffs. As potent as the D'Antoni Offense can be I honestly feel that this Knicks team regardless of personal will not win the Eastern Conference Finals unless D'Antoni accommodates more effective defensive players at the expense of his personal taste. So when Donnie is looking to trade Wilson for Rudy most people scratch their head, but in D'Antoni's "system" which overvalues offensive prowess and undervalues defense this is a slam dunk.

    Considering where we stand now do you feel D'Antoni will be able to coach a contender?
    u did all that writing about a GM & headcoach that hasnt been on the
    same-page since both arrived in New York.
    This thread is about a headcoach that dont remind his players they have a
    foul to give in crunch time, or remind his players to call a time out, or have a
    defensive plan in the last quarter, or have a design play after a time out, or
    have any knowledge on developing college talent into NBA talent.
    The list could go on and on, especially using a small rotation of 7 players on a
    15 man role-player team.

    I'm curious to know if u ever seen Dantoni coach the Denver Nuggets?
    or when Dantoni coach the 29 win Phoenix Suns? did Dantoni have this
    so-call system u mentioning back then?

    I'm asking this question b/c u and a hundred other Knick-fans keep getting
    "Steve Nash style of performance" mixed up with this so-call theory of
    a Dantoni-system.
    I wonder what system Jason Kidd and Matrix Marion were using as Phoenix Suns?

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    Not only can we not win with our coach, we need new owners badly...Till then we will win nothing. Sad a great org like the Knicks has been cursed by ****ty owners lately

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    After Dantoni got swept (5 games) in the first round in Phoenix with
    Shaq/Amare/Hill/Diaw/Nash, the writing was on the wall.
    Those 5 players together are a 7 game series.

    The only way Dantoni couldve impressed me after that first
    round embarrassement in Phoenix, was for him to improve and mesh
    our veteran players Marbury/Crawful/Q.Rich/Jeff/Zach/Curry/and Jerome
    James into having a .500 season.

    The credit of our 32 & 29 win season belongs to headcoach Dantoni as well
    as the players. There was nothing impressive about the coaching of those
    2 seasons to expect better coaching in the upcoming season.

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    I'm probably stating the obvious here, but Dantoni's insistence on winning without worrying about defense is like using a drag racer without brakes on a NASCAR track.

    His focus on scoring more than the opponent is only half right; he must realize that it is easier to score more than the opponent if you focus on stopping them from getting points.

    He is so friking stubborn on this subject and it doesnt help the development of our young guys. He should back down and accept a defensive assistant coach; if he would match his awesome offensive mind with a solid defensive policy, then he will win championships. Until then, we will win many games, but not a championship.

    Nonetheless, can't wait to see the offensive firepower of our revamped team next season, and the guys we brought in do have defensive abilities (Randolph, Mason, Turiaf, Felton), so I think the layoffs are a strong possibility.

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    Can We Win w/ D'Antoni

    yes of course

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    Originally Posted by portega1968
    I'm probably stating the obvious here, but Dantoni's insistence on winning without worrying about defense is like using a drag racer without brakes on a NASCAR track.

    His focus on scoring more than the opponent is only half right; he must realize that it is easier to score more than the opponent if you focus on stopping them from getting points.

    He is so friking stubborn on this subject and it doesnt help the development of our young guys. He should back down and accept a defensive assistant coach; if he would match his awesome offensive mind with a solid defensive policy, then he will win championships. Until then, we will win many games, but not a championship.

    Nonetheless, can't wait to see the offensive firepower of our revamped team next season, and the guys we brought in do have defensive abilities (Randolph, Mason, Turiaf, Felton), so I think the layoffs are a strong possibility.

    How can you claim that D'ant does not worry about defense? I have posted several videos, quotes and articles where D'ant is clearly coaching defense at a high level. His rosters have always been filled with lackluster defensive players so he did his best with what he had. That said, I have never heard of a credible argument that asserts SSOL is not able to incorporate good defense.

    The guy one multiple titles in Europe and several coach of the year awards here and in Europe so please don't tell me the guy can't coach defense. It's a shallow talking point by the same media who hates the Knicks and jumps from one story emanating from a blogger to the next. If you cared to to look past this inaccurate talking points you would see that D'ant is an offensive specialist who can alos coach D quite well.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    How can you claim that D'ant does not worry about defense? I have posted several videos, quotes and articles where D'ant is clearly coaching defense at a high level. His rosters have always been filled with lackluster defensive players so he did his best with what he had. That said, I have never heard of a credible argument that asserts SSOL is not able to incorporate good defense.

    The guy one multiple titles in Europe and several coach of the year awards here and in Europe so please don't tell me the guy can't coach defense. It's a shallow talking point by the same media who hates the Knicks and jumps from one story emanating from a blogger to the next. If you cared to to look past this inaccurate talking points you would see that D'ant is an offensive specialist who can alos coach D quite well.
    I don't see how various posters, commentators, basketball analysts and sports writers can all be wrong. EVERYONE knows Dantoni's system is HIGHLY focused on blowing up the scoreboard.

    Its the same way how EVERYONE knew former coach Mike Fratello's system was highly focused on slowing the game down and playing tough defense. All you have to do is watch the games to know these things. There's a consistency with each coach.

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    Default This why i hate the Bulls even more....

    Living here in Illinois is so hard. Bulls talking of stealing Melo from under our nose, and now this conversation regarding coaching.

    Why couldnt the Bulls hire DAntoni when we did? I think the Tom Thibidoux era in Chicago will prove more fruitful than Mike "NO-D" 'Antoni.

    That being said, we need to build this team in a manner that fits his style. Amare cant play much D, but he can sure move. If we get Melo and a true point like Paul, we stand a much better chance at success.

    Quote me...we will land Chris Paul before we get Melo!

    Quote me more......D'Antoni must adjust his style slightly for the Knicks to succeed.

    Go Knicks.


    Originally Posted by BleedOrange&Blue
    Like many Knicks Fans I am happy that we can now look back at the Isaiah Era as we move forward and try to restore the prominence of what was once a proud and respected franchise. I think Donnie Walsh has been decent as a GM as he was able to clean house and give the Knicks young talent and some flexibility to work with in the future. Up until this point however, the Knicks have not show any real improvement. This of course is part of the rebuilding process and considering how there was no real continuity and players were all looking out for themselves with contracts expiring, to fault D'Antoni at this point would be premature.

    Up until this point, I have ignored most of the criticism of our coach as he has never really had much of a chance to put his system into place. I think the most legitimate point that has been made is his lack of emphasis on defense and rebounding. Even as a D'Antoni supporter I am truly concerned by his disregard for the two most critical components of championship winning basketball. I have no doubt that the Knicks will be entertaining but quite frankly I got plenty of that reading the newspapers when Isaiah was running things. I don't care about just "making the playoffs" I want to dominate.

    Looking back on the history of the NBA, I cannot recall a team outside of perhaps the Showtime Lakers that could get away with average defense and go deep into the playoffs. As potent as the D'Antoni Offense can be I honestly feel that this Knicks team regardless of personal will not win the Eastern Conference Finals unless D'Antoni accommodates more effective defensive players at the expense of his personal taste. So when Donnie is looking to trade Wilson for Rudy most people scratch their head, but in D'Antoni's "system" which overvalues offensive prowess and undervalues defense this is a slam dunk.

    Considering where we stand now do you feel D'Antoni will be able to coach a contender?

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