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Thread: Can We Win w/ D'Antoni

  1. #76
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    That's funny coming from you, it truly is. If my points were such garbage surely you could respond, but you didn't. It's clear I laid out several points and backed up my assertions with videos and quotes. You came into the thread and contributed absolutely nothing and everyone can see that. My names are a carry over from the other thread where you started talking **** and thinking just because you are an old man that you know more. I responded with a thorough logical beating of all your points and you ran away claiming to put me on ignore. SO now this is twice where you fail at being able to actually debate me...
    Just like Metro.... You put up a Youtube video and claim false victories, and then hurl insults and dumb names when you are losing.... Still haven't learned to STFU when grown folks are talking....just a petulant child looking for attention.... you will get none from me.....

  2. #77
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Just like Metro.... You put up a Youtube video and claim false victories, and then hurl insults and dumb names when you are losing.... Still haven't learned to STFU when grown folks are talking....just a petulant child looking for attention.... you will get none from me.....
    Haha theres something called hypocrisy. You should look it up

    Seriously though, perpetrating insults with yet more insults doesn't really help anything. It just proves that you can't respond to a debate without getting too emotionally invested.

    Lets at least pretend to argue with facts and a teenie bit of research eh?

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    Kiya,

    Trill..... I am like everyone else on this KO board, to debate (not argue)
    over a topic u go way over board on the subject plus the name-calling
    still show the childish personality within u. I refuse to be around
    friends/family/co-workers that mention bad/negative things about other
    friends/family/co-workers behind their back, and is afraid to mention it "face
    to face" with that person around. This is the internet.
    This is too funny! GO back and you will see that it is you who called me out in an indirect way to another person by asserting I was clueless. If my words hurt you then chose who you decide to engage more carefully. Further, I called you Kyiawoman...one name and it was a play on your name and an accurate description for all the bitching and complain you do on this forum. The rest of my posts were all facts backed up by videos, stats and quotes which you could not muster a real response too.


    The longest winning streak the Knicks have had in the past 10 years were
    with "shoot-first Marbury & Nate da Great" as starters, 6-games.
    This is a logical fallacy and does not prove anything nor does it address my points. Correlation does not imply causation. Simply put, citing some 6 game win streak means nothing and still doesn't address why it would be good to have two ball dominant combo guards coming off the bench together with a different roster and years after that win streak.

    After a 23 win season we had the Wolves, Grizz, Clippers, and Warriors,
    calling for our two top scoring players Zach & Crawful.
    If we wouldve had a .500 season, the media wouldve put all the Knicks
    whoa's on Isiah Thomas bad coaching of players by refusing to play the
    young players with the veteran players, and giving all his pet players more
    playingtime than they deserve.
    1. This is total speculation and you constantly do this. You make made up arguments and assert them as facts. It's a poor debate tactic...

    2. We ended up with Amare, AR and Felton as the centerpieces of our offseason. I think that was a pretty damn good off season considering we still have Curry's contract and we siogned Felton to a very reasonable contract with a team option allowing us to go after a star PG like Paul in the near future. DO you really think we could have done better via trades? Do you understand how limiting that would have been having our choice from those players who were on the trade block? Further we would have had to take back contacts rather then sign players to what we decided they deserved.
    3. Please get off this "veterans deserved playing time" bs. The NBA is a business and they get paid millions to play a game.

    u are mentioning a GM/turn President with 22 years of experience, within
    those 22 years those are the only names you could come up with out of
    44 draft picks?
    Yes, I quickly named same great picks that counter your previous assertions. Miller at 11th and Harrington at 25 are more than great picks buddy. Every GM has a mixed record as the draft and lottery are never a sure thing. YOu keep mentioning Grunfeld...what were he his great draft picks?

    That's helluva big difference from PF-Lee/SF-Harrington/and SF-Gallo getting
    all the bigmen playingtime minutes.
    1. JJ got big minutes as well and was put in their for defense something you claim D'ant does not care about or coach.
    2. Are you really arguing that Darko should have been given more minutes over Lee, Harrington or Gallo? Really?

    u are ignoring the fact that the only good/decent trades Walsh made was
    the Crawful & Q.Richardson trade. We needed bigmen so Lee/Zach/Chandler
    dont get tired/aghausted in the 4th quarter for a win.
    What u fear to realize is Lee & Zach out-played the majority of bigmen
    tandem oponents in the 23 win 2007-8 season, their biggest downfall
    was having Q.Brick/Crawful/and (26 mpg) Fred Jones throwing up brick shots
    and being the worst SF/SG/PG combination in the league.
    You have your opinion and I have mine. That said, the validity of any trade that WALSH made has no bearing on the real fact that D'ant was the coach and had to keep rebuilding chemistry after each trade and put 5 players on the court with less talent then what he had prior to the trade. Simply put, you fault D'ant's record while ignoring the roster and now want to conflate Walsh's moves as justification for your hatred of D'ant.

    Do u actually think Dantoni wouldve allowed Donnie Walsh to trade Gallo in
    his rookie (back injury) season on the trading deadline?
    Do you actually have any proof of any of this? NOPE!

    We needed 6.6 Mardy Collins defense and short jumper.
    LOL! We needed Mardy Collins!? ANd you wonder why people think you are a joke!

    Dude, you can continue to be a pessimist all you want but when you call me out and claim I am clueless when it is abundantly clear to 99% of this forum that you are a joke I will respond with a lashing. If you want to have a reasonable debate I am more than game...chose your words wisely next time if you cant stand the heat.

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Just like Metro.... You put up a Youtube video and claim false victories, and then hurl insults and dumb names when you are losing.... Still haven't learned to STFU when grown folks are talking....just a petulant child looking for attention.... you will get none from me.....
    Dear Mr. Pot Calling the Kettle Black,

    Dude, I called you 1 name, Jimqueef because it's hysterical, accurate as you remind me of a bodily discharge blowing hot air and because you try and talk down to people just because you are an old, bitter and out of his prime aging man. You can try to take the high road but it was you who started beefing and name calling in other threads. And it was you who entered this thread and decided to comment about me to other posters. Further this is now your 3rd or 4th post in this thread and you have yet to actually contribute a single thing to the topic. You can't and won't debate me because you know in your core that your aging heart and mind can't match me.

    Yes, I posted a Youtube video which shows D'ant coaching defense at a high level, calling for switches, discussing doubling Red and preaching it in almost every huddle. It is more than relevant to this thread and just because I snatched it off of Youtube does not diminish it's merits as you try and assert. In fact pictures and videos speak a thousand words and it was the perfect antigen to the diseased lies that fester on this forum. Good day sir!

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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    Haha theres something called hypocrisy. You should look it up

    Seriously though, perpetrating insults with yet more insults doesn't really help anything. It just proves that you can't respond to a debate without getting too emotionally invested.

    Lets at least pretend to argue with facts and a teenie bit of research eh?
    How about you stay on board for over a year and have more than 3 posts before you have an opinion on how us vets do our thing.

  6. #81
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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Dear Mr. Pot Calling the Kettle Black,

    Dude, I called you 1 name, Jimqueef because it's hysterical, accurate as you remind me of a bodily discharge blowing hot air and because you try and talk down to people just because you are an old, bitter and out of his prime aging man. You can try to take the high road but it was you who started beefing and name calling in other threads. And it was you who entered this thread and decided to comment about me to other posters. Further this is now your 3rd or 4th post in this thread and you have yet to actually contribute a single thing to the topic. You can't and won't debate me because you know in your core that your aging heart and mind can't match me.

    Yes, I posted a Youtube video which shows D'ant coaching defense at a high level, calling for switches, discussing doubling Red and preaching it in almost every huddle. It is more than relevant to this thread and just because I snatched it off of Youtube does not diminish it's merits as you try and assert. In fact pictures and videos speak a thousand words and it was the perfect antigen to the diseased lies that fester on this forum. Good day sir!
    I have (master)debated you before and your opinions are wack. Kiya calls you Trillwoman because you are more of a ***** than a *****. Any idiot can put a video on youtube. Wasn't the "pants on the floor" video on youtube. Nuff said. There is a reason there are more coaches over 40 than under. With age comes WISDOM. So put your money where your mouth is. This roster as currently composed WILL win less then 35 games. You seem to feel with all the "upgrades" and great coaching they can achieve more. So if Knicks (barring a big trade) win over 35 games, I will stop calling Trillwomen, and start calling you Real Trill. BUT, if the Knicks win under 35 games, you must stop calling me jimqueff(???? dat's just nasty who think of that crap, oh wait inmature children like you), and start calling me SIR CHIEF. Deal??? Put up or shut up!!!!!

  7. #82
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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    First of all why do heck do you keep going on and on and on and on about Celebrity Coach Dantoni????? He's certainly popular among players which is a great thing as they finally would want to come here. The only other "celebrity coaches" I can think of are Phil Jackson, Pat Riley, and maybe Popovich and Doc Rivers. You only become a well known coach by winning. So why keep pointing that as a negative?

    Personally I think coaches get way too much credit as well as too much blame. The NBA is a players league. If you don't have good players or suffer through injuries, you lose. Its that simple. Why do you think Popovich always deflects praise by saying hes got Tim Duncan. Btw the Suns won with Gentry against the Spurs because they had better players this year. The Spurs had a gimpy tony parker/ginobili and still gave them some trouble.

    If you want proof, look for the Coach of the Year curse.

    200506: Avery Johnson, Dallas Mavericks, 6022 (Fired April 30, 2008)
    200607: Sam Mitchell, Toronto Raptors, 4735 (Fired December 3, 2008)
    200708: Byron Scott, New Orleans Hornets, 5626 (Fired November 12, 2009)
    200809: Mike Brown, Cleveland Cavaliers, 6616 (Fired May 24, 2010)
    200910: Scott Brooks, Oklahoma City Thunder, 5032 (???)

    The media always votes for winners and doesn't take into account whether the coach is actually the reason for the wins or not.

    Some coaches have brilliant systems and awesome plans for defense. However, its all up to the players to actually have passion and learn those systems.

    Lets make this simple;

    1. A great coach like Phil Jackson and Popovich can push a talented team over the top to win a tough series and/or championship.

    2. A mediocre coach such as Sam Mitchell and Mike Brown can't adjust to a 7 game series and end up losing their players' respect. They still win a lot of games due to their team having a ton of talent and win COY!

    3. ANY COACH WITH BAD PLAYERS LOSES. Media and fans all go with the crowd and bash the coach because they are the easiest ones to blame. It can't be the GM's fault for picking dumb trades or players being more interested in stats then winning right?

    Dantoni has an great record in the playoffs with the Suns. Their only losses came against championship teams that had to fight tooth and nail to beat them. Is he the greatest coach in the world? Absolutely not. He certainly has some weaknesses. However, you can't expect to win without good players and this year will be a great testing point. Expect this to be a make or break year where Dantoni can finally prove himself yet again for all those naysayers who constantly ride the seesaw of what the media portrays
    Trillwoman is that you????

  8. #83
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    Originally Posted by iJoe
    Haha theres something called hypocrisy. You should look it up

    Seriously though, perpetrating insults with yet more insults doesn't really help anything. It just proves that you can't respond to a debate without getting too emotionally invested.

    Lets at least pretend to argue with facts and a teenie bit of research eh?
    Check ipo adresses mods, Trillwoman has cloned himself.....

  9. #84
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    I have (master)debated you before and your opinions are wack. Kiya calls you Trillwoman because you are more of a ***** than a *****. Any idiot can put a video on youtube. Wasn't the "pants on the floor" video on youtube. Nuff said. There is a reason there are more coaches over 40 than under. With age comes WISDOM. So put your money where your mouth is. This roster as currently composed WILL win less then 35 games. You seem to feel with all the "upgrades" and great coaching they can achieve more. So if Knicks (barring a big trade) win over 35 games, I will stop calling Trillwomen, and start calling you Real Trill. BUT, if the Knicks win under 35 games, you must stop calling me jimqueff(???? dat's just nasty who think of that crap, oh wait inmature children like you), and start calling me SIR CHIEF. Deal??? Put up or shut up!!!!!

    Swing and a miss....

    1. I called Kiyaman, Kiyawoman first because it was witty and a play on words that happened to accurately personify his bitching and moaning. He copied my joke missing the point all together but you my over the hill loser take the cake! You not only copied my joke but each time you use my tactics you just confirm my father-ship of your psyche. You are mad and every one can see that. Thanks for the props and the imitation of my style! I am touched that such an ooooooooooold man who must have been sonned numerous times over his looooooooooong sad existence would honor me in such an honest way, putting his admiration on display for everyone to see.

    2. You once again didn't contribute a single thing about the topic and are incapable of refuting a single one of my points. I'm not sure what is more flattering...the biting of my style or the inability to even begin an attempt at debating me on the merits. Now you want to call me a child while offering a juvenile bet and referencing some lame American Idol clip. Do you not see what a hypocritical d-bag you come across as? Yeah dude, your years and years and yeeeeeeears of experience has made your wisdom awe inspiring....

    3. Your Fox news tactics of attacking an opponents strengths don't go unnoticed.(I bet you are a self loathing Republican...AMIRITE?) The fact is the video I posted was not some silly Youtube clip but actual irrefutable evidence proving my case. You can pretend it's something it's not but anyone with half a brain will see right through your transparent farce. That is why you can't debate me on the merits and have to play some silly game of hypocrisy where you project your actions on others. You are a d-bag to the nth degree, Jimqueef the Style Thief...
    Last edited by TR1LL10N; Sep 07, 2010 at 21:05.

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    I haven't read all 6 pages of this and I don't know if anyone mentioned this already, but there is one clear reason why D'antoni and his system is not effective on the defensive end of the floor.

    The whole emphasis of the offense is getting all 5 players up the court as quickly as possible and out "running/gunning" the other team. Every rebound is a potential fast break, every steal/block is a potential fast break.

    When you have players rushing up the court as quickly as they can this naturally takes its toll on their energy levels. When you play for a quick score and don't run a half court set the players are constantly on the move. Then when the players get back on the defensive end, they need to rest before the next offensive possession.

    This is further compounded by the fact D'antoni runs a short rotation of players giving the players he does play even less time to rest.

    Physically you can only have so much energy over a 48 minute game. This system encourages short sharp bursts of physical exersion which are physiologically more stamina draining.

    Whether D'antoni preaches defense in every time out is not really a big deal, considering the way he runs his offense has players tired out and needing to rest on each defensive play.

    For us to have a truly solid defensive capability, we need to have a more balanced emphasis on offense/defense.

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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    Check ipo adresses mods, Trillwoman has cloned himself.....
    Dude you're just being a troll right now. I could see gettn heated in the midst of a passionate argument, but you haven't said a thing on topic. This is a bit unbecoming...

  12. #87
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    Originally Posted by jimkcchief88
    How about you stay on board for over a year and have more than 3 posts before you have an opinion on how us vets do our thing.
    Heh, thats the best you can do? You're just proving my point. Grow a pair and try debating a topic without PMSing.

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    Originally Posted by smokes
    I haven't read all 6 pages of this and I don't know if anyone mentioned this already, but there is one clear reason why D'antoni and his system is not effective on the defensive end of the floor.

    The whole emphasis of the offense is getting all 5 players up the court as quickly as possible and out "running/gunning" the other team. Every rebound is a potential fast break, every steal/block is a potential fast break.

    When you have players rushing up the court as quickly as they can this naturally takes its toll on their energy levels. When you play for a quick score and don't run a half court set the players are constantly on the move. Then when the players get back on the defensive end, they need to rest before the next offensive possession.

    This is further compounded by the fact D'antoni runs a short rotation of players giving the players he does play even less time to rest.

    Physically you can only have so much energy over a 48 minute game. This system encourages short sharp bursts of physical exersion which are physiologically more stamina draining.

    Whether D'antoni preaches defense in every time out is not really a big deal, considering the way he runs his offense has players tired out and needing to rest on each defensive play.

    For us to have a truly solid defensive capability, we need to have a more balanced emphasis on offense/defense.


    This was a top subject during the midseason of Dantoni's first Knick season when he ran a 6-Man rotation. The players were tired/aghausted by the 4th quarter.
    Donnie Walsh had to notice this too, so he added Douglas/Hughes for the Backcourt and added Hill/Darko for the Frontcourt for Dantoni's second season. Plus Walsh made Eddy Curry workout and lose 20 pounds in the offseason to get into playing shape for the 2009-10 season.
    Adding these players did not make the Knicks a playoff team, but it did add more depth and a 8+ man rotation of a complete lineup to the previous 32 win season 6-man rotation for a 38 to 40 win 2009-10 season.

    Coach Dantoni DNP all of the above additional players plus DNP our energy 6th man off the bench, Nate couldve use some fresh leg players in his lineup off the bench.

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    Originally Posted by TR1LL10N
    Swing and a miss....

    1. I called Kiyaman, Kiyawoman first because it was witty and a play on words that happened to accurately personify his bitching and moaning. He copied my joke missing the point all together but you my over the hill loser take the cake! You not only copied my joke but each time you use my tactics you just confirm my father-ship of your psyche. You are mad and every one can see that. Thanks for the props and the imitation of my style! I am touched that such an ooooooooooold man who must have been sonned numerous times over his looooooooooong sad existence would honor me in such an honest way, putting his admiration on display for everyone to see.

    2. You once again didn't contribute a single thing about the topic and are incapable of refuting a single one of my points. I'm not sure what is more flattering...the biting of my style or the inability to even begin an attempt at debating me on the merits. Now you want to call me a child while offering a juvenile bet and referencing some lame American Idol clip. Do you not see what a hypocritical d-bag you come across as? Yeah dude, your years and years and yeeeeeeears of experience has made your wisdom awe inspiring....

    3. Your Fox news tactics of attacking an opponents strengths don't go unnoticed.(I bet you are a self loathing Republican...AMIRITE?) The fact is the video I posted was not some silly Youtube clip but actual irrefutable evidence proving my case. You can pretend it's something it's not but anyone with half a brain will see right through your transparent farce. That is why you can't debate me on the merits and have to play some silly game of hypocrisy where you project your actions on others. You are a d-bag to the nth degree, Jimqueef the Style Thief...
    And you never answered my bet Trillwoman.... 35 games more or less.... put up or shut up .... If you have so much faith in this team, your coach, your youtube videos, our new "all-star", then bet me. You are great at slinging stupid names like the shrimp on the playground hiding on the other side of the slide, but this is where the rubber meets the road. PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR BIG MOUTH IS......PUT YOUR REP(OR LACK THEREOF) ON THIS TEAM AS CURRENTLY COMPRISED AND COACHED

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    Originally Posted by ronoranina
    Dude you're just being a troll right now. I could see gettn heated in the midst of a passionate argument, but you haven't said a thing on topic. This is a bit unbecoming...

    Shut up roro

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