Koran Burning

[Knicks4lyfe]

I'll ask again, if it doesn't happen will you admit you were wrong?

I believe in our last debate, you said the world was definitely going to end within the next 10 years. That was about 9 months ago (I have it marked on my calender and I will remind you every year for the next 10 years).

So, in 9 years and 3 months, if the world has not ended, will you admit you were wrong?

It's a simple answer. Yes or No. Not, "it's already happening, etc, etc".

How much longer do you think before we will ban religion? 5 years?

If it hasn't happened in that time frame, will you admit you were wrong? Again, it's a simple answer. Yes or No.

First of all, I'm positive I never said I'm SURE the world would end in ten years. I am also positive I said I highly doubt this system has 10 years. And I still don't. Honestly it's hard for me to see 5!! But know one knows the hr. But the signs are more glaring than ever.

I will give you this. If this system is around in ten years, I will be utterly shocked, but not dismayed at my faith. No if we're here say 15-20.... Issue. You said when it's 50 years from now and I'll have raised my kids, yadda yadda, what then. Well 50 years from now, If Im alive, I'll be 81, but in the body of a 20 year old(according to scripture)

My point is, this is happening. There is very good reason for a Jehovah's witness to feel this world is dying at a very rapid pace. They look at the world differently than ayone else. We're paying attn to things everyone else is not. And it's goin down. If we're talkin in ten, you will most likely have become a Jehovah's witness

I have a question tho.

Scientist wants to prove God does not exist. Scientist uses lightning and amino acids to prove that's how life began.

If lightning and amino acids is how we came about, what role does th scientist play?

[DaTPRiNCE]

Burning the Koran will spark war.

Christ would not burn the Koran. It is a book against scripture and it does view Christ as only a prophet and even has mis translations of Christ so as a heathen book about Christ, yes it might anger some Christians.

But to burn a book is an act of force and war. This is like the Crusades all over again.

Both sides during the crusades never truly follwoed their written words. They went to war for their own selfish desires.

This pastor burning a Koran is going about the wrong way.

We are taught in scriputre to love everyone, even our enemies and if he sees Islam as the enemy then he should preach to them with love. And IF THEY persecute (radical Islam) then you accept it and preach the word through persecution, not fighting back and acting just like them.

Calvin, Luther, and Augustine did not burn Catholic texts, they just argued against it. The Catholic church essentially murdered all of the reformers they could.

Christians are not taught to act like this pastor is doing.


Now building a mosque on the World Trade Center is completely wrong and stupid. There is so many tension amongst the views of Islam from radical Islam that if you honestly build a mosque it is an insult to the people who died on that day.

This is a PR disaster that can lead to possible revolts.

This is like blowing up a mosque and building a church right over with everyone in the town still being Muslim, it is forced religion.

Building a mosque should be stopped at all costs. And this pastor should learn the Word of God instead of doing what he feels is right.

Too many fools in this world.

paul i disagree with some of your points especially on building the mosque at the WTC site. cause first of all it just happened to be a couple of blocks away and is in no way related to the attacks on 9/11, and to interfere with ones right to worship is unconstitutional and to stereotype against all muslims just because of some retard( who will burn in hell, for what he's responsible of causing is in no way condemned in islam ). by not letting us build this mosque you pretty much going against the constitution. people need to wake up and smell the coffee if people would read about islam instead of just agreeing with that the media says, then people will see that islam is a religion of peace, and is very anti war. the attackers of 9/11 will burn in hell in the eyes of islam that was wrong and in no why "accepted" in islam

[Paul1355]

paul i disagree with some of your points especially on building the mosque at the WTC site. cause first of all it just happened to be a couple of blocks away and is in no way related to the attacks on 9/11, and to interfere with ones right to worship is unconstitutional and to stereotype against all muslims just because of some retard( who will burn in hell, for what he's responsible of causing is in no way condemned in islam ). by not letting us build this mosque you pretty much going against the constitution. people need to wake up and smell the coffee if people would read about islam instead of just agreeing with that the media says, then people will see that islam is a religion of peace, and is very anti war. the attackers of 9/11 will burn in hell in the eyes of islam that was wrong and in no why "accepted" in islam

If it is not right on the site, then it doesn't matter but the News has been making out to seem like they are going to put a mosque right were the WTC was at, if this is so then it can't happen. I am not saying it should not happen because radical muslims are sometimes terrorist, I am saying it because it is a disastrous PR move.

Many people in America are racists towards Muslims because of 9/11 and the event happened in NY so building a mosque on the site is not smart, away from the site is fine.

I am just saying as a whole, there would be retaliation to this. I wouldn't be the ones yelling but it will look bad and could be worse if it happened.

And yes both the terrorist and the pastor are prob going to burn in hell.

[LJ4ptplay]

First of all, I'm positive I never said I'm SURE the world would end in ten years. I am also positive I said I highly doubt this system has 10 years. And I still don't. Honestly it's hard for me to see 5!! But know one knows the hr. But the signs are more glaring than ever.

I will give you this. If this system is around in ten years, I will be utterly shocked, but not dismayed at my faith. No if we're here say 15-20.... Issue. You said when it's 50 years from now and I'll have raised my kids, yadda yadda, what then. Well 50 years from now, If Im alive, I'll be 81, but in the body of a 20 year old(according to scripture)

My point is, this is happening. There is very good reason for a Jehovah's witness to feel this world is dying at a very rapid pace. They look at the world differently than ayone else. We're paying attn to things everyone else is not. And it's goin down. If we're talkin in ten, you will most likely have become a Jehovah's witness

I have a question tho.

Scientist wants to prove God does not exist. Scientist uses lightning and amino acids to prove that's how life began.

If lightning and amino acids is how we came about, what role does th scientist play?

The answer I exepected. 10 years will go by and you'll still be saying "look at all the signs, the world is ending soon". Then another 10 years will pass and you'll say the same thing. Then another 10 years will pass and you'll say the same thing. And another, and another, until your're 81 and have wasted your life. Sadly only then maybe you'll see. Just rememer these debates then. So when you're old and close to dying, will you then admit you're wrong?

Someone needs to hold you people accountable. You can't keep sayng the world is going to end and not be held accountable.

Christians have been saying the world is going to end for several hundred years. Always pointing to the signs. But religious strife has been occurring since the dawn of civilization. Same with war, death, disease, etc, etc. And in greater numbers than now.

The Dark Ages were much, much worse. Hundreds of millions of people died from the black plague alone. Almost 75% of the European population died. Per capita, many, many more people died from disease, war, famine, religion, etc,. But religious people said it was the end of the world then too. No different than now.

And to answer your question. The water represents the water. The electric pulse represents lightning. Simple. Do I really need to explain how lightning occurs? That should be elementary. Are you suggesting lightning has never struck the ocean?

A quick question for you: Why are dinosaurs not mentioned in the bible?

[DaTPRiNCE]

If it is not right on the site, then it doesn't matter but the News has been making out to seem like they are going to put a mosque right were the WTC was at, if this is so then it can't happen. I am not saying it should not happen because radical muslims are sometimes terrorist, I am saying it because it is a disastrous PR move.

Many people in America are racists towards Muslims because of 9/11 and the event happened in NY so building a mosque on the site is not smart, away from the site is fine.

I am just saying as a whole, there would be retaliation to this. I wouldn't be the ones yelling but it will look bad and could be worse if it happened.

And yes both the terrorist and the pastor are prob going to burn in hell.

its 2 blocks away and is unrelated to the WTC, it just so happens to be near the WTC. and if this happens you'll see a lot of people starting to get in-between the building of religious places and such; and for all the wrong reasons. my view is if they passed the legal hurdles there is to buying a building then whos to interfere with what they want to build there? its a freedom of religion thats being exercised.

and what really aggravates me is that the american public listen to the media and thats it instantly think that islam is all about death and it supports terrorism, and in actuality its the complete opposite. its sad to say that the american public is retarded. ( not saying your one of them paul, just wanted to clarify that loll ) smart people would do their research and read on islam and see its a peaceful religion. people like pastor jones piss me off to an extent where i want to crack them in the face.

and as far as those terrorists and jones go i agree with you. i hope those terrorists and bi-laden and all his men really burn in hell for eternity simply because of what they've put their muslim brothers and sisters through in the aftermath of it all.

[LJ4ptplay]

If it is not right on the site, then it doesn't matter but the News has been making out to seem like they are going to put a mosque right were the WTC was at, if this is so then it can't happen. I am not saying it should not happen because radical muslims are sometimes terrorist, I am saying it because it is a disastrous PR move.

Many people in America are racists towards Muslims because of 9/11 and the event happened in NY so building a mosque on the site is not smart, away from the site is fine.

I am just saying as a whole, there would be retaliation to this. I wouldn't be the ones yelling but it will look bad and could be worse if it happened.

And yes both the terrorist and the pastor are prob going to burn in hell.

First of all, it's not even a mosque, it's a community center. The community center is over two blocks away from where the WTC stood and over 5 blocks away from where the memorial will be. Noone will even notice it.

Yes, the news, primarily Fox News, is making it seem as though a mosque is being built at the same location as the WTC. Please, do not watch Fox News. People that use Fox News as their primary source of news are the least informed out of any group. Even people that use The Daily Show as their primary source are more informed. (this is from a poll done by the Wall Street Journal)

The politicians that spread this misinformation are using the deaths of thousands of people for their own political gain. It should not be a surprise. They've been using it ever since it happened (see Iraq War) and since it is an election year, they are using it again. It's sickening.

[Knicks4lyfe]

The answer I exepected. 10 years will go by and you'll still be saying "look at all the signs, the world is ending soon". Then another 10 years will pass and you'll say the same thing. Then another 10 years will pass and you'll say the same thing. And another, and another, until your're 81 and have wasted your life. Sadly only then maybe you'll see. Just rememer these debates then. So when you're old and close to dying, will you then admit you're wrong?

Someone needs to hold you people accountable. You can't keep sayng the world is going to end and not be held accountable.

Christians have been saying the world is going to end for several hundred years. Always pointing to the signs. But religious strife has been occurring since the dawn of civilization. Same with war, death, disease, etc, etc. And in greater numbers than now.

The Dark Ages were much, much worse. Hundreds of millions of people died from the black plague alone. Almost 75% of the European population died. Per capita, many, many more people died from disease, war, famine, religion, etc,. But religious people said it was the end of the world then too. No different than now.

And to answer your question. The water represents the water. The electric pulse represents lightning. Simple. Do I really need to explain how lightning occurs? That should be elementary. Are you suggesting lightning has never struck the ocean?

A quick question for you: Why are dinosaurs not mentioned in the bible?

I have alrdy said 15 would be a huge issue. Not 10. Still doubt we have 5.

Why so harsh on us for wrong ideas concerning prophecy? Are u equally as harsh on science when they have to revise previously theories based on new findings?

Yes the end of the world has been predicted for millenniums, and the world has always dealt with calamity. But Jesus tells us the sign that we're in the end, and its never fit a tkme like it has since 1914. Let alone the light that's been shed to help prove this.

I'm sure lightening has hit water. But what role does the scientist play? That is the million dollar question.

Probably because dino's are irrelevant as far as the bible. It's to tell us why we're here, and what's this all abt. Dino's don't fit.

[LJ4ptplay]

I have alrdy said 15 would be a huge issue. Not 10. Still doubt we have 5.

Why so harsh on us for wrong ideas concerning prophecy? Are u equally as harsh on science when they have to revise previously theories based on new findings?

Yes the end of the world has been predicted for millenniums, and the world has always dealt with calamity. But Jesus tells us the sign that we're in the end, and its never fit a tkme like it has since 1914. Let alone the light that's been shed to help prove this.

I'm sure lightening has hit water. But what role does the scientist play? That is the million dollar question.

Probably because dino's are irrelevant as far as the bible. It's to tell us why we're here, and what's this all abt. Dino's don't fit.

I know where you're going with this. You're trying to say that the scientist plays the role of god. Which is incorrect. We know how lightning forms, we know how water forms. As you have stated, lightning has struck the ocean. There is no need for god to be part of creation. And this is proof. I guess you think God makes each and every bolt of lightning, every time all over the entire universe. Even the ones that randomly strike and kill innocent people. Nice.

Dinosaurs irrelevant? If you are correct about creation, all of the dinosaurs, that in reality evolved for over 150 million years, existed at once at the same time as humans. There would have been dinosaurs everywhere. All over the place. Dinosaurs the size of city blocks, T-Rex's (among the thousands of other dinosaurs) hunting and coming into their camps and eating not only their livestock but the people too. Dinosaurs would have been a major part of their lives. It would have been a terrifying existence.

For the most part, the bible mentions nothing about why we're here. The overwhelming majority is about God rewarding and then punishing the jews. A portion of it is about the proper way to live your life. How to live in your camp/community and how to deal with livestock and crops. God punishes the jews with plagues. He sends bears to kill a bunch of innocent children. You would think there would be at least one little mention about dinosaur attacks. They would have happened on a daily basis. I mean, the bible talks about what to do if you have a wet dream. How is that about why we're here?

No, this is just further proof that the bible is wrong. Dinosaurs are not mentioned, not even once, because they didn't know they existed (i.e. creation is incorrect). They were buried in the ground as fossils over 100 million years ago. We also know they weren't killed at once by a flood. If they had been, they would have been buried at the same level in the earth. But they are buried at various strata at different points in time. The age at the time these strata formed is very accurate (if you need me to go into this, I will). This is further factual evidence that proves, with 100% certainty, that the bible is incorrect about creation.

Keep making excuses. But this is how I know (amongst the other overwhelming evidence and facts that contradict the bible), with 100% certainty, God is not coming down to murder billions and billions of people.

The bible is wrong about creation. That is a fact. You can try and rationalize it any way you want, because you desperately want it to be true, but you cannot argue against the facts. And the facts prove your religion wrong. You will see, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 50. But eventually you will see.

[Knicks4lyfe]

I know where you're going with this. You're trying to say that the scientist plays the role of god. Which is incorrect. We know how lightning forms, we know how water forms. As you have stated, lightning has struck the ocean. There is no need for god to be part of creation. And this is proof. I guess you think God makes each and every bolt of lightning, every time all over the entire universe. Even the ones that randomly strike and kill innocent people. Nice.

Dinosaurs irrelevant? If you are correct about creation, all of the dinosaurs, that in reality evolved for over 150 million years, existed at once at the same time as humans. There would have been dinosaurs everywhere. All over the place. Dinosaurs the size of city blocks, T-Rex's (among the thousands of other dinosaurs) hunting and coming into their camps and eating not only their livestock but the people too. Dinosaurs would have been a major part of their lives. It would have been a terrifying existence.

For the most part, the bible mentions nothing about why we're here. The overwhelming majority is about God rewarding and then punishing the jews. A portion of it is about the proper way to live your life. How to live in your camp/community and how to deal with livestock and crops. God punishes the jews with plagues. He sends bears to kill a bunch of innocent children. You would think there would be at least one little mention about dinosaur attacks. They would have happened on a daily basis. I mean, the bible talks about what to do if you have a wet dream. How is that about why we're here?

No, this is just further proof that the bible is wrong. Dinosaurs are not mentioned, not even once, because they didn't know they existed (i.e. creation is incorrect). They were buried in the ground as fossils over 100 million years ago. We also know they weren't killed at once by a flood. If they had been, they would have been buried at the same level in the earth. But they are buried at various strata at different points in time. The age at the time these strata formed is very accurate (if you need me to go into this, I will). This is further factual evidence that proves, with 100% certainty, that the bible is incorrect about creation.

Keep making excuses. But this is how I know (amongst the other overwhelming evidence and facts that contradict the bible), with 100% certainty, God is not coming down to murder billions and billions of people.

The bible is wrong about creation. That is a fact. You can try and rationalize it any way you want, because you desperately want it to be true, but you cannot argue against the facts. And the facts prove your religion wrong. You will see, maybe in 5 years, maybe in 50. But eventually you will see.

The scientist is God. Period. No Way around it.

Read the bible more. God made the earth for life. Simply put.

The animals and huge beasts were here before man. I've already posted the article any the true Time and nature of the creative days. If was a lot longer than 1k years for a day. Read that? Probably not.

Here is a link to help u better understand the end.[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

[LJ4ptplay]

The scientist is God. Period. No Way around it.

Read the bible more. God made the earth for life. Simply put.

The animals and huge beasts were here before man. I've already posted the article any the true Time and nature of the creative days. If was a lot longer than 1k years for a day. Read that? Probably not.

Here is a link to help u better understand the end.[Only registered and activated users can see links. ]

I did read it. That doesn't answer the question. It doesn't matter that they were created before man. You say they existed at the same time that man existed and they died in the flood (Noah). That is wrong. Sorry. Nice try.

The experiment simply shows that life can be created without god. By natural acts that occur naturally. Another example of creationists claiming that life cannot come about without god, scientists proving those claims false....and now you want to say the scientist is the role of god? Well, we can show how the molecules and elements that allow life, form naturally on their own as well. Still no god.

[Paul1355]

its 2 blocks away and is unrelated to the WTC, it just so happens to be near the WTC. and if this happens you'll see a lot of people starting to get in-between the building of religious places and such; and for all the wrong reasons. my view is if they passed the legal hurdles there is to buying a building then whos to interfere with what they want to build there? its a freedom of religion thats being exercised.

and what really aggravates me is that the american public listen to the media and thats it instantly think that islam is all about death and it supports terrorism, and in actuality its the complete opposite. its sad to say that the american public is retarded. ( not saying your one of them paul, just wanted to clarify that loll ) smart people would do their research and read on islam and see its a peaceful religion. people like pastor jones piss me off to an extent where i want to crack them in the face.

and as far as those terrorists and jones go i agree with you. i hope those terrorists and bi-laden and all his men really burn in hell for eternity simply because of what they've put their muslim brothers and sisters through in the aftermath of it all.

I recently heard that the guy in charge of the Mosque shares radical views, if this is so then I would understand all the uproar.

You don't want a radical teacher implanting that extreme teaching in the heart of NY....

So these things have to be investigated.

[Knicks4lyfe]

I did read it. That doesn't answer the question. It doesn't matter that they were created before man. You say they existed at the same time that man existed and they died in the flood (Noah). That is wrong. Sorry. Nice try.

The experiment simply shows that life can be created without god. By natural acts that occur naturally. Another example of creationists claiming that life cannot come about without god, scientists proving those claims false....and now you want to say the scientist is the role of god? Well, we can show how the molecules and elements that allow life, form naturally on their own as well. Still no god.

When did i say man nq dino lived together? Wat i said was beast came before man, and nk one Knows Exactly how long before that was.

Im sayin Jehovah is the reason those elements exist in the first place. The scientist is using elements that were already in place. And he had tk formulate some sort of system tk make it work. Order. Kinda like how everything is precisely situated for us to live.

And showing things that allow life is one thing. Oxygen allows life too. But its notthe cause of life. God is.

[LJ4ptplay]

When did i say man nq dino lived together? Wat i said was beast came before man, and nk one Knows Exactly how long before that was.

Well, this is your manipulation of the bible. It clearly states days. Even if a day = 1,000 years (which is incorrect and again another misinterpretation), it is still incorrect. Many creationists say the dinosaurs were wiped out from the great flood (Noah). Which is incorrect.

Im sayin Jehovah is the reason those elements exist in the first place. The scientist is using elements that were already in place. And he had tk formulate some sort of system tk make it work. Order. Kinda like how everything is precisely situated for us to live.

We know how the elements are created as well. We know how the order is created. Again, no God is needed. The only thing you have left is the starting point. Which, in the other thread, Hawking explains how a god is not needed for that either.

And just because it may be a theory as to how the universe first began, does not equal your version. In fact, your version of the universe is completely incorrect. If you want to say God started the Big Bang, created the laws of physics and biology that lead to where we are today and just let them run their course without influence, then fine. I can accept that view. But it still makes your version of the universe incorrect.

And showing things that allow life is one thing. Oxygen allows life too. But its notthe cause of life. God is.

That is your opinion. And you have zero evidence to support it. Meanwhile we have verifiable and repeatable evidence that supports my opinion.

[Knicks4lyfe]

Well, this is your manipulation of the bible. It clearly states days. Even if a day = 1,000 years (which is incorrect and again another misinterpretation), it is still incorrect. Many creationists say the dinosaurs were wiped out from the great flood (Noah). Which is incorrect.





We know how the elements are created as well. We know how the order is created. Again, no God is needed. The only thing you have left is the starting point. Which, in the other thread, Hawking explains how a god is not needed for that either.

And just because it may be a theory as to how the universe first began, does not equal your version. In fact, your version of the universe is completely incorrect. If you want to say God started the Big Bang, created the laws of physics and biology that lead to where we are today and just let them run their course without influence, then fine. I can accept that view. But it still makes your version of the universe incorrect.




That is your opinion. And you have zero evidence to support it. Meanwhile we have verifiable and repeatable evidence that supports my opinion.

Your problem is, you don't understand the theme of the bible at all. Which leads to hypocrisies and confusion. You also lack the ability to reason, or take in the possibility you dont know as much as you think you do.

It baffles me because as much as you say science relies on its theories by covering broad .spectrums, you refuse to use that same thought process when discussing the bible. You are entirely closed minded to it.

the creative days could have been thousands of years a piece for all we know. the biblical langauge does not set a specific amount of time for each period. moses even called all the creative days ONE DAY, when referring to time relative to God. So no one knows exactly how.long each creative day was.

Then you say God didnt create the universe, and he does not exist, yet we stand here today with 7 Million followers living in peace serving A God you say does not exist. How can a being who does not exist, call such a shot?

Only explanation is you are fine being lost. You look at the prophecy at Isaiah 2 and say it has not happened. Which is folly and also why its hilarious you talk down at people with all of your supposed knowledge, because compared to some science, the Biblical reading comprehension is juvenile. Yet you have major issues comprehending it.

For instance, you take the verse in question to mean world peace. And in the long run, it will be. But that will happen when the earth is only home to Jehovah's people.
You think it concerns everyone, which again shows how you do not take into account the biblical theme. It is speaking of those in the last days who will willingly serve Jehovah acceptably, and will abide by his laws and therefore be in peace with one another. The world outside of Gods arrangement will never be in peace because it does not adhere to Gods will, and some dont even believe he exists!

Quite simply, the bible is over your head. The sad part is, its not because its complicated, but because of lack of faith.

Good day.

[OGKnickfan]

Whether you call yourself a Christian, Muslim, agnostic, or anything else, which are all false, self-imposed, ego-building constructs, these religions, cannot, in and of themselves, take away the essential goodness of what we are; and this has always caused subconscious struggle, surfacing in the form of stress, anger and other forms of acting out. We see this in various posts in this thread.

What and where you are, prior to your introduction and adoption of illusion, is your true, real home (warped into a pursuit for the false heaven, when true salvation has always been all around you but that the self-created/asserted YOU rejects). Not-you (what was before your confusion) is always trying to shine through, to break through the ego-created, ego-fulfilling barriers that you create in every moment of life.

In these moments of perpetuating the false self, whatever lies within (that original force) recognizes itself, if only for a split second (in the eyes of a Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, one of God's creatures, the mountains, the sky, etc.), in all that surrounds the body, it sees that it can go back home, i.e., heaven. In such a state there is neither separation, nor struggle.

But, the mind, believing deeply in the ambitions of the self-perpetuated self (ego): 'I am a Muslim,' 'I am a Christian,' 'I am a Hindu,' resists and denies the soul its chance to go back home. In this resistance lies our inheritance of pain, hate and separation.

Although everything: the silent trees, the peaceful wind, whispers to us that these self-created Gods, who become angry, are vengeful, discriminate against certain, condemned people, are not supreme, are limited, in fact, by their very own static, predictable characteristics and are thus in conflict with true, limitless, unpredictable God (reality), we continue to worship ourselves, and thus live in pain and conflict, in the image of these Gods who are us.

So much do we believe in the false that in most of the religions, the products of delusion, greed and hate are believed to follow the pious believer into his or her afterlife: he will gamble in heaven, have all of the things he wanted in heaven, etc.

You can never overcome God (reality), through worship of yourself, via the false, which is why you can never find perpetual fulfillment: peace, compassion, grace, in the Gods of money, power, position and hate.

In fact, true God is so powerful that, even as you hate, it silently absorbs your hateful actions into its very being.

Others, like you, not knowing their connection to the divine and the process we play in it, see it as the enemy, as causing the conflict, when truly it is their judging of the divine that causes conflict. This judging is self-created, as is the turmoil that results. God (egoless reality) is not the cause. The conflict is created by us, the tempter, the source of conflict is us.

Atrocities like the crusades, like 9-11, etc., are us, because the Gods that inspired them are us.

PEACE, and God Bless.