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Thread: Trading Gallo or Randolph for Carmelo will fail us.

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    Default Trading Gallo or Randolph for Carmelo will fail us.

    IMO

    This is my opinion, not a fact...I'm not asking you guys to agree with this because I don't have much information to back this up, when I arrive home from school/work/boxing, Ill add some tidbits to make sense of this.

    Okay.

    I understand you guys see Carmelo as a top 10 player, thats understandable...the media brainwashes a lot of people, and people are easily convinced by what they see on TV.

    I believe our front court is the most perfect front court in the NBA.

    They're all the same height, but all have different styles.

    Gallo - Shooting/Toughness/IQ/Alot of Skills all around 6"10 230 lbs SF/PF. A leader, and a has great vision offensively and defensively. Team plays great when he's on the floor and he wants to win games, not pad stats. So much potential.

    Amare - Post scoring, athelicism, all star level of player, 9 rebounds and a couple of blocks per game...a great primary scoring option, playoff experienced...dominates the best players in the game.

    Randolph - Marcus Camby meets Lamar Odom. Probably will average 15-17 ppg a most, but will give us 2+ blocks per game 10+ rebounds and 3+ assist. Dynamically fundamentally and athletically all in one. 6"10 230 lbs



    Getting Carmelo would be greedy.

    But don't take this thread as a point where im going to favor one side.

    To get to the other side, if we were to trade for Carmelo.

    I would trade Gallo, believe it or not.

    I just feel Randolph is a player you can't pass up on...he has too many attributes that will separate him from the rest of his class. He can legit play SF/PF/C....that center position being more important.

    We have so many wing players, it decreases Gallo's value less and less.

    I hate to grade Gallo, but Im just being realistic here if this trade goes down, we should trade him over

    Its a ****ty situation.
    I love our team and players...I want to see them play together for a reason.

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    is the Bo$$ Toons's Avatar
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    i kinda agree.....its either gallo or randolph unfortunately. ill take randolph....bye bye gallo

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    I dont want to give up nobody. The Knicks made the first move by offering Gallo and Denver said no. If Denver calls us with Melo holding the Nuggets hostage, they get peanuts. Gallo and AR stay here!!!!!!!! Melo to NY!!!!! Chandler, Curry gone!!!


    4 team trade I made up, what you think:


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    Originally Posted by Blumatic
    I dont want to give up nobody. The Knicks made the first move by offering Gallo and Denver said no. If Denver calls us with Melo holding the Nuggets hostage, they get peanuts. Gallo and AR stay here!!!!!!!! Melo to NY!!!!! Chandler, Curry gone!!!


    4 team trade I made up, what you think:


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    While your trade looks somewhat OK, Denver wants draft picks and there is no incentive for any of these other teams to give up a draft pick to be part of this trade and the Knicks do not have a draft pick to trade away. In your scenario, the trailblazers are only getting Crawford for Fernandez and if that was good enough to get him then I think Atlanta would pull that off on their own with out being part of the multi-team trade. The fact is that Denver is NOT being held hostage, they actually have the upper hand. If there wasn't a potential strike looming then Melo would have the upper hand but Denver could just force Melo to wait it out and he might end up getting less money based on the new CBA.... That is the X factor here and that is why Melo has given Denver a wish list that has multiple teams listed. Houston, NJ and Chicago all have a better shot at getting Melo than NY and that is a fact. If the Knicks were smart, they would see this and try to figure out a way to snag a quality play from one of the team trying to land Melo; use this to their advantage! Like Chicago for instance... Denver does not want Deng's contract in the trade so why not see if Chicago would trade Dang for Curry's expiring contract and maybe Douglas as well (they need another guard). While Dang is NOT Melo, he is not that far behind either so the Knicks would take on Deng's contract (he is paid probably 2-3 mil a year more than he is worth) and get a quality upgrade at the 3 spot, this would free up Chandler to use in another trade to address another area. Chicago could use Curry's contract and maybe one of their young players along with a pick to get Melo. If you are the Knicks maybe you go after JR smith to flank Deng. Turiaf, Amare, Deng, Smith, felton starting with Randolph and Gallinari coming off the bench... I think we could live with that!! The Knicks could find a backup PG to use and there are other bench players that can come in as filler....

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    Here's a trade scenario I like! In this scenatio, Chicago and Philly each would have to send a #2 pick to Denver but I feel all teams would be happy with this scenario. Essentially Chicago would be trading Rose for Melo straight up and I think any GM would be happy with this on either side though Melo is the better player here... Rose gives Denver a player that they could sell to the fans as Philly gets salary relief and a nice replacement in Chandler although Azubuike could be a good player if healthy but he has an expiring contract so it let's Philly take a risk without taking a salary hit long term.... Chicago looses Rose, a fan favorite, but they will get over it quickly since Melo is a better player and more so a better FRANCHISE player than a undersized 2.... Douglas gives them another guard with scoring potential that could come off the bench and play the 1 and the 2 at times.... The Knicks get Deng a 3/2 that can score and defend. While he is a step down from Melo, he still is a quality player and a potential all star. Same as Iggy, while he is not a consistent scorer he is awesome in the transition game and open court. He and is a monster defender and since there will be a lot of spot up 1 on 1 defending in Mike D's system, Iggy can defend his spot like a Mo'Fo!! You keep Gallinari and you have a 3/4 coming off the bench that is a scorer and can stretch the d... Randolph is a 3/4/5 so he is an extremely versatile player that can excel in this system. We lose Turiaf but we could find bodies to throw in a the 5 to give Amare and Randolph rest for a few minutes.

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    Last edited by hometheaterguy; Sep 22, 2010 at 11:32.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    Here's a trade scenario I like! In this scenatio, Chicago and Philly each would have to send a #2 pick to Denver but I feel all teams would be happy with this scenario. Essentially Chicago would be trading Rose for Melo straight up and I think any GM would be happy with this on either side though Melo is the better player here... Rose give Denver a player that they could sell to the fans as Philly gets salary relief and a nice replacement in Chandler although Azubuike could be a good player if healthy but he has an expiring contract so it let's Philly take a risk without taking a salary hit long term.... Chicago looses Rose, a fan favorite, but they will get over it quickly since Melo is a better player and more so a better FRANCHISE player than a undersized 2....

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    Rose and Melo don't play the same position so you can't compare them in a vacuum like that. They have completely different skill sets. If the Bulls aren't willing to trade Noah for Melo, why would their franchise #1 overall pick be leaving for Melo? And why would the Knicks take two huge contracts at the same position in Deng and Iggy, especially with the potential of lower salary caps and a hard salary cap ceiling in the new CBA?

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    Veteran nyk_nyk's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by hometheaterguy
    While your trade looks somewhat OK, Denver wants draft picks and there is no incentive for any of these other teams to give up a draft pick to be part of this trade and the Knicks do not have a draft pick to trade away. In your scenario, the trailblazers are only getting Crawford for Fernandez and if that was good enough to get him then I think Atlanta would pull that off on their own with out being part of the multi-team trade. The fact is that Denver is NOT being held hostage, they actually have the upper hand. If there wasn't a potential strike looming then Melo would have the upper hand but Denver could just force Melo to wait it out and he might end up getting less money based on the new CBA.... That is the X factor here and that is why Melo has given Denver a wish list that has multiple teams listed. Houston, NJ and Chicago all have a better shot at getting Melo than NY and that is a fact. If the Knicks were smart, they would see this and try to figure out a way to snag a quality play from one of the team trying to land Melo; use this to their advantage! Like Chicago for instance... Denver does not want Deng's contract in the trade so why not see if Chicago would trade Dang for Curry's expiring contract and maybe Douglas as well (they need another guard). While Dang is NOT Melo, he is not that far behind either so the Knicks would take on Deng's contract (he is paid probably 2-3 mil a year more than he is worth) and get a quality upgrade at the 3 spot, this would free up Chandler to use in another trade to address another area. Chicago could use Curry's contract and maybe one of their young players along with a pick to get Melo. If you are the Knicks maybe you go after JR smith to flank Deng. Turiaf, Amare, Deng, Smith, felton starting with Randolph and Gallinari coming off the bench... I think we could live with that!! The Knicks could find a backup PG to use and there are other bench players that can come in as filler....
    Please correct me if i'm wrong, but are you saying we should pick up Deng's huge contract and trade Curry and TD for the purpose of helping CHI land Melo???

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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Please correct me if i'm wrong, but are you saying we should pick up Deng's huge contract and trade Curry and TD for the purpose of helping CHI land Melo???
    Essentially, yes... We DO NOT have what it takes to land Melo! He IS NOT waiting for free agency so why not get something out of this that can help our team. Deng is a very good player and he can help the Knicks. You could do nothing and wait to see who is available this off season but you will be picking from scraps with the exception of 2 or 3 guys. Deng is better than and 3 or 2 the Knicks have currently. Gallinari still has to prove himself that he can consistently keep up his stats for a FULL season. He has started off strong and finished soft so he still has to show that he can be who we hope he can be. So why not? You can't worry about the other guy no matter what. Yes, we would be helping Chicago but we would be helping ourselves as well and with adding another player like Iggy (Which Philly is public about wanting to she his contract) the Knicks from top down would be better than Chicago WITH Melo!!!

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    I agree both AR and Gallo for Melo would be fail. I also think that if we trade for Melo Gallo out of the two should be the one to go considering we will be bringing back a true superstar SF to replace a budding all-star in Gallo. AR is too versatile, young and athletic to be the one to go. Further his ability to defend and play multiple positions makes him a better fit.

    I wish Melo would just man up and say I want NYC or I am not signing an extension. If he were smart he would wait to be a FA and come to NYC without us losing anything.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    IMO

    This is my opinion, not a fact...I'm not asking you guys to agree with this because I don't have much information to back this up, when I arrive home from school/work/boxing, Ill add some tidbits to make sense of this.

    Okay.

    I understand you guys see Carmelo as a top 10 player, thats understandable...the media brainwashes a lot of people, and people are easily convinced by what they see on TV.

    I believe our front court is the most perfect front court in the NBA.

    They're all the same height, but all have different styles.

    Gallo - Shooting/Toughness/IQ/Alot of Skills all around 6"10 230 lbs SF/PF. A leader, and a has great vision offensively and defensively. Team plays great when he's on the floor and he wants to win games, not pad stats. So much potential.

    Amare - Post scoring, athelicism, all star level of player, 9 rebounds and a couple of blocks per game...a great primary scoring option, playoff experienced...dominates the best players in the game.

    Randolph - Marcus Camby meets Lamar Odom. Probably will average 15-17 ppg a most, but will give us 2+ blocks per game 10+ rebounds and 3+ assist. Dynamically fundamentally and athletically all in one. 6"10 230 lbs



    Getting Carmelo would be greedy.

    But don't take this thread as a point where im going to favor one side.

    To get to the other side, if we were to trade for Carmelo.

    I would trade Gallo, believe it or not.

    I just feel Randolph is a player you can't pass up on...he has too many attributes that will separate him from the rest of his class. He can legit play SF/PF/C....that center position being more important.

    We have so many wing players, it decreases Gallo's value less and less.

    I hate to grade Gallo, but Im just being realistic here if this trade goes down, we should trade him over

    Its a ****ty situation.
    I love our team and players...I want to see them play together for a reason.
    Good points. Gallo is a VERY good shooter, but what makes him special is his height. Either way, I'd take AR and his multiple skill set for the future. Honestly, shooters aren't that difficult to come by.

    FYI - I think Gallo will be a special player but I lean on the side of AR if I had to make a choice.

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    Superstar nuckles2k2's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by nyk_nyk
    Good points. Gallo is a VERY good shooter, but what makes him special is his height. Either way, I'd take AR and his multiple skill set for the future. Honestly, shooters aren't that difficult to come by.

    FYI - I think Gallo will be a special player but I lean on the side of AR if I had to make a choice.
    This is similar to why I don't think Chicago are going to aggressively make a move for Melo...think about it. Chi is only a scorer away from being a complete team. They have the low post offense and defense, they have depth in their front court, they have the facilitator in Rose, the have the perimeter D with Rose and Brewer, and they have the shooter from outside with Korver. They're just one all around scorer away, but if they trade for Melo then they mess up some of the dynamic they already have. Deng alone will not be enough, and that's all they're really willing to give up because it'd be a one-for-one trade, a SF for an SF and they don't miss a beat.

    But a scorer is easy to find. A scorer of Melo's caliber? No, but they don't need a top 10 NBA caliber player to drop buckets for them so why should they risk it?

    So while I don't exactly want Gallo to go, it's kind of the same situation. We can afford to trade unproven/hasn't arrived yet talent for a proven player at the same position. I still believe that if it comes down to Denver trading him here or Melo walks we'll be able to pull a Kwame Brown for Pau type of deal where it's heavily lopsided in one team's favor. But if we had to lose Gallo or Randolph then I vote for Gallo since the move wouldn't jeopardize the team dynamic.

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    Originally Posted by metrocard
    I understand you guys see Carmelo as a top 10 player, thats understandable...the media brainwashes a lot of people, and people are easily convinced by what they see on TV.
    I'm not being brainwashed by anybody....you see i live in upstate ny (Syracuse) I've been watching this guy since college days and i know for a fact what he is capable of doing. I'll give gallo,AR and anybody else in the knicks but AS for mello thats how good i know this guy is and how better the knicks will be with him in it.

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    Smh, I was starting to wonder if some of you guys here actually cared about NY B-Ball. It's clear what I've been seeing around here...
    like Flavor Flav Said “my vision ain’t blurry, boyyy!”


    It’s going to be a multi team deal I’m sure and hoping it will include Gallinari. Denver<ST1</ST1 isn’t going to risk another Lebron fiasco, he will be traded. They’re going to want something in return and Mello is pushing them to send him here. Gallo will be a distraction just like last year, I saw with my own eyes (court side seats) how the coach favors him over the rest of the team. When Nate went on scoring sprees the coach benched him and told him to relax because he was yelling to load…wtf. I remember Gallo picking up 2 quick fouls in the first quarter of a game the coach smiled (with that silly face) and told him “don’t worry about it” and patted him on the ass as he made his way to the bench. I saw the look in the other player’s eyes. I saw Chandler <ST1shake his head and Nate started “humming a song” while shaking his head in disbelief, Curry doesn’t like coach either and I think it’s for the same reason. Harrington, and Duhon were ass kissers, I even heard Al call coach “sir” for most of the night (this ain’t the military). The only players I saw play with skillz and dignity was Chandler <ST1and Lee.

    <O</O
    WE don’t need Gallo; we can find other shooters who aren’t one dimensional, inconsistent, and favored by the coach. In this Eastern Conference we don’t need tall weak boney players hanging around the three. We need bangers, creators, defenders, and experience…real ballers.

    <O</O
    The media is hyping up Gallos game, which in a way is a good thing. The media did great things for Lee and Duhon…as far as promoting an exaggerated dynamic duo. The same goes for Gallo; I know how the game works. I know what this dude did last year, he tried to be a fake shooting guard in an scrawny centers frame. and I’m sure he didn’t bulk up in weight or worked on his post and mid range game. He’ll be beyond the ark tossing them up again hopping a good percentage of them will fall in. I honestly think Andy can be that 3 pt threat for us along with a couple of other players. Matter of fact, everyone in the NBA should be able to make these shots. What separates you from the D-League and the collegiate level is the amount of diversity you have on the court when dealing with adversity. Gallo is just too lame to be giving the key to this city…in this day and age. He is not that special guy the coach is trying to make him out to be, especially with a soft back that throws off the rhythm in the individual’s game. Gallo will be a hindrance because D’Antonio is trying to turn a player into someone he’s not. Coach might break the poor boy’s back in the long run.

    <O</O
    Why wait for the middle of the season (when Gallo’s obvious flaws will be noticed) when we have the chance now to package him in a multi team deal and skate away scot free like we did with Duhon? The media has done its job, now its the brass turn.

    <O</O
    Winners win now and later. Losers are use to losing and will often plan for an uncertain future. Conservative gets you little while being assertive doubles your chances at getting you what you want.
    Last edited by Real NY Baller; Sep 22, 2010 at 11:58.

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    Knicks Guru hometheaterguy's Avatar
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    Originally Posted by Real NY Baller
    Smh, I was starting to wonder if some of you guys here actually cared about NY B-Ball. It's clear what I've been seeing around here...
    like Flavor Flav Said “my vision ain’t blurry, boyyy!”


    It’s going to be a multi team deal I’m sure and hoping it will include Gallinari. Denver<ST1</ST1 isn’t going to risk another Lebron fiasco, he will be traded. They’re going to want something in return and Mello is pushing them to send him here. Gallo will be a distraction just like last year, I saw with my own eyes (court side seats) how the coach favors him over the rest of the team. When Nate went on scoring sprees the coach benched him and told him to relax because he was yelling to load…wtf. I remember Gallo picking up 2 quick fouls in the first quarter of a game the coach smiled (with that silly face) and told him “don’t worry about it” and patted him on the ass as he made his way to the bench. I saw the look in the other player’s eyes. I saw Chandler <ST1shake his head and Nate started “humming a song” while shaking his head in disbelief, Curry doesn’t like coach either and I think it’s for the same reason. Harrington, and Duhon were ass kissers, I even heard Al call coach “sir” for most of the night (this ain’t the military). The only players I saw play with skillz and dignity was Chandler <ST1and Lee.

    <O</O
    WE don’t need Gallo; we can find other shooters who aren’t one dimensional, inconsistent, and favored by the coach. In this Eastern Conference we don’t need tall weak boney players hanging around the three. We need bangers, creators, defenders, and experience…real ballers.

    <O</O
    The media is hyping up Gallos game, which in a way is a good thing. The media did great things for Lee and Duhon…as far as promoting an exaggerated dynamic duo. The same goes for Gallo; I know how the game works. I know what this dude did last year, he tried to be a fake shooting guard in an scrawny centers frame. and I’m sure he didn’t bulk up in weight or worked on his post and mid range game. He’ll be beyond the ark tossing them up again hopping a good percentage of them will fall in. I honestly think Andy can be that 3 pt threat for us along with a couple of other players. Matter of fact, everyone in the NBA should be able to make these shots. What separates you from the D-League and the collegiate level is the amount of diversity you have on the court when dealing with adversity. Gallo is just too lame to be giving the key to this city…in this day and age. He is not that special guy the coach is trying to make him out to be, especially with a soft back that throws off the rhythm in the individual’s game. Gallo will be a hindrance because D’Antonio is trying to turn a player into someone he’s not. Coach might break the poor boy’s back in the long run.

    <O</O
    Why wait for the middle of the season (when Gallo’s obvious flaws will be noticed) when we have the chance now to package him in a multi team deal and skate away scot free like we did with Duhon? The media has done its job, now its the brass turn.

    <O</O
    Winners win now and later. Losers are use to losing and will often plan for an uncertain future. Conservative gets you little while being assertive doubles your chances at getting you what you want.
    Listen, I agree about Gallinari and I think he has a long way to go and to prove himself. But, to have a 6'11" player that can shoot and understands the fundamentals like DG is rare and you have to give him time. I'm not sure if you guys remember but Dirk got this same treatment for a few years in Dallas until he broke out. Lets hope DG finds himself and becomes the player we hope he can be. Guys like Chandler are all over the NBA.... Chandler is an average NBA player who, at times, has moments where he commands the floor but he is not consistent either and he will never be a star the most you can hope for is an above average NBA player. Deng has more skills than Chandler as well AS Iggy... Iggy is a superior player, especially defensively and while his offense is not consistent he is a top-tear defender and you could have him defend guys like Kobe, LaBron and Melo. Deng id a decent defender as well, better than Chandler who can't man up his guy!!! You also have to keep the systme in mind as well... Iggy does NOT do well in a slow, half court game because he is not a pure shooter who can spot up but in the transition game that the Knicks are trying to implement, Iggy can excel!! He is great in the open court!! Deng is great in the open court as well and Deng can post up. If the game is slowed down to a half court game, Deng can make his own shot. Whereas Chandler is like Iggy and needs to run.
    Would anyone here sign for the following starting 5 right now?
    Amare
    Randolph/Gallinari (not sure which one I would start; probably switch them out based on the team I was playing)
    Deng
    Iggy
    Felton

    Could we live with this starting roster as Knicks fans??? I can!!! You don't think this team can make it deep into the playoffs? With the trade scenario I gave you guys this final 4 would be: Boston, Miami, Chicago and NY..... I truly believe we could beat at least one of those guys to make it to the Conference Finals... If not and we lose; we still have a MLE to use in the off season to grab a player and add them... Maybe a Battier or even go after a big that can play around 10 minutes a night.

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    It's getting so close that all of this is becoming a reality. And as he pushes for a trade.. this becomes less is in our favor.

    NOT that we aren't one of the only two teams he'd reportedly wants to play for hence will sign a contract extension with.. but that the more reasonable AND logical way of having him join us (via free agency) doesn't seem like a viable option anymore. which sucks.

    I know it sounds stupid for anyone to NOT want Carmelo on the team. I am one of his biggest supporters in fact. Huge Syracuse fan. Huge Carmelo fan.

    but..

    As much as I havent agreed with Metrocard on a constant basis in all the years Ive been with KO.. the Knicks equally throughout the years have not given their young talent a chance and have sent them away for "proven" players. And I agree with Metro on this guys.

    On their own are Gallo and Randolph equally as good as Anthony? NO. At this point, not even close. but if we have to give up one or both of these prospects who RIGHT now can cover multiple positions for us.. successfully and not even having reached their full potential. It doesnt make for a smart move.

    Could this be something we kick ourselves in the ass for? possibly. but getting carmelo is not the end of the world. We should see what we have and aim for deadline or offseason to grab a quality SG. Not clean house for another SF. albeit he is a "top 10 player".

    If the move had to come and the bulls stay steady with their offer of a 1st round pick, Taj Gibson, and Luol Deng. We have the advantage still. We can offer a 1st rounder and something the bulls cant cap relief. We offer a 1st rounder, Eddy Curry, Wilson Chandler, and their pick of Douglas, Rautins, Fields, Walker, Ewing Jr.

    Could it work? poss. I have faith in Walsh not to give up everything. but at the end of the day its all a bunch of possiblys. If we get him.. Who else could.. Will Gallo or Randolph reach star level.. Will he play as a team..

    possibly.

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